SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

[looneymoon]

Any other media company or franchise would have left it behind and just "rebooted" the whole brand ala Marvel/Disney or Warner Bros/DC.

In all seriousness, the reason I'm having trouble buying this is because the state of FF7 right now is a striking reminder of that one summer of everyone freaking out about the Thanos snap. I just fundementally dont understand the drama when its painfully obvious the ramifications are gonna be (at least somewhat) undone for the sake of the next 10 movies coming out

Then again, I was that asshole in the cinema who audibly cackled during that Peter Parker part that was in all the memes, so I'm willing to say this shit is just not for me

 

[Makoeyes987]

In all seriousness, the reason I'm having trouble buying this is because the state of FF7 right now strikingly reminds me of that one summer of everyone freaking out about the Thanos snap. I just fundementally dont understand the drama when its painfully obvious the ramifications are gonna be (at least somewhat) undone for the sake of the next 10 movies coming out

I mean, I was sorta in the same boat. On one hand yeah, it was a dramatic and emotional moment that was cool and badass to see. But, I never forgot this was an ensemble superhero franchise movie that needed to last and it did strike me as... surprising in reference to how so many fans were so "into it" when we knew it was coming.

Then again, I was that asshole in the cinema who audibly cackled in the cinema during that Peter Parker part that was in all the memes, so I'm willing to say this shit is just not for me

LOL that's so harsh. Hilarious.. But harsh. I was also skeptical they would leave him gone for good. That just wasn't gonna happen.

Honestly in regards to FFVII, I'm just left wondering what they're gonna do with it all and am curious... Will they simply play it safe, will they go buck wild with no rhyme or reason, or will they ultimately craft a balance between the two extremes that delivers something interesting that communicates something of note? If the writers do nothing else from this point on but keep the story/gameplay interesting while simply communicating the same themes of FFVII in a more modern and adaptive way, they've still come out on top in the end. And that's the bare minimum. Path of least resistance. And it would work because the themes of FFVII hold strong today. If however, they're able to dig deep and communicate those same themes effectively while also doing something new and entertaining? That's a bonus and it seems to be what they're shooting for.

Whether they're successful or not remains to be seen but as long as they don't drop all their balls juggling this Remake, they can do it. At this point, what could they do other than just blow up FFVII wholesale and make it unrecognizable? Which they said they weren't gonna do and are clearly are working to avoid. They can go crazy as they did in Part 1 but at this point, it wouldn't be as shocking anymore and that would still leave a good 90% of the game rocking as hard as Part 1 did. They'd have to actually work extra hard to somehow drop everything and just fuck it up entirely.

 

[Odysseus]

In an ideal world the ending of part 1 would be used to justify some more drastic shifts from the OG where such things might actually improve the story *cough*fort condor*cough* while leaving other parts alone. I expect more radical and controversial shifts to be there too, since Sephiroth 2 Sephiroth harder needs to be elaborated on. I'm betting the story won't wrap up the same way at least.

 

[Ite]

Obviously, I would never say that you can't or shouldn't enjoy something you don't understand. I'm saying that to leave half of your audience in the dark in terms of context and character (Zack's superhero reveal without the established context of Crisis Core) is not good writing.

I'm not trying to dictate what audiences should or shouldn't consume. I'm just looking at this from a writing perspective. I started watching Walking Dead at the beginning of Season 4 and I personally think that's a great starting off point. But because it was syndicated television, the writers of Walking Dead made sure that I had all the appropriate context to understand the major beats of each episode. When the governor returns I had a few episodes of him as a figure, whispered about by the other characters -- he was as much backstory to my Walking Dead experience as Sephiroth was in the beginning of FF7. No such context is given to Zack, we're assumed to know him already, and if not? Well you can google him. As Episode 1? That's bad writing.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The influence of the Compilation is strongly felt to this day, while only a third of its entries can be easily consumed. None of its games are ported or even in existence on current gen systems. In fact they're not even on the last generation of systems. The most readily available works are not games at all but short stories and of course Square's most successful CGI animated film.

Ironically, this is pretty much the precise inverse of the way things were a decade ago.

 

[Odysseus]

I'm sure the books will be a pain to find too in due time.

 

[Makoeyes987]

By the way the Remake is being released, it's going to suffer from some sort of poor structural writing because it's chopped up. The narrative is going to be structurally distorted in terms of digestion, because each entry is simultaneously an individual game meant to tell a single continuous story. There's going to be clear distortions at an objective level that will ultimately have to be accepted due to the nature of the beast. What we're getting in terms of scope, depth, and ultimately in scale, we're going to have to pay for with it being segmented as individual parts that are going to be darkened due to having to manipulate itself to best format itself as a multi-game work. Presumably the weaknesses will be kept to a minimum while the benefits of given by this release style will be at maximum.

Regarding Zack, I honestly I don't think new fans are supposed to know who he is here. He's merely a name, a SOLDIER, and a person who seemingly is connected to Cloud and uses the same sword. This SOLDIER is shown to have saved Cloud's life at some unknown point in the past, and now Cloud is shown to be connected. That's not really a huge wedge of understanding. It's a purposeful dangling of a mystery. It's no different than say, us seeing Zack run out of the Shinra Mansion during Sephiroth's depiction of what happened in the Nibelheim Massacre. We're shown a random SOLDIER that carries Cloud's sword and dresses almost identical to him. What he's been through and it's mysterious significance is a cliffhanger-like end point that we're just left to chew on until the next part.

Ironically, this is pretty much the precise inverse of the way things were a decade ago.

And that's what's so wild to me. It amuses me how this perspective been turned on it's head and what was so recent and present before, has become so distant.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Regarding Zack, I honestly I don't think new fans are supposed to know who he is here. He's merely a name, a SOLDIER, and a person who seemingly is connected to Cloud and uses the same sword. This SOLDIER is shown to have saved Cloud's life at some unknown point in the past, and now Cloud is shown to be connected. That's not really a huge wedge of understanding. It's a purposeful dangling of a mystery.

It is all of that, though I'm sure most new players connect the dots from him to Aerith. I mean, my gf did, despite being otherwise confused about why we were seeing those images when we did.

Her main point of confusion right now is less "Who's that Zack guy and where is he now?" than "What's Cloud's deal since the mad scientist said he isn't a SOLDIER?" I think we often forget that newcomers have no point of reference for the significance of the Zack sequences -- they don't know he was supposed to die there, so they aren't confused by the fact he didn't die.

 

[Odysseus]

I think we often forget that newcomers have no point of reference for the significance of the Zack sequences -- they don't know he was supposed to die there, so they aren't confused by the fact he didn't die.

This is what I was saying. It's only a spoiler because we know it's a spoiler, and him living is only weird because we already know it's weird.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Her main point of confusion right now is less "Who's that Zack guy and where is he now?" than "What's Cloud's deal since the mad scientist said he isn't a SOLDIER?" I think we often forget that newcomers have no point of reference for the significance of the Zack sequences -- they don't know he was supposed to die there, so they aren't confused by the fact he didn't die.

Yeah, that's the kernel of truth or hint-drop meant to have someone new question what the real past of Cloud is supposed to be, I think. Because when someone like your g/f asks that question, and examines the weird flashbacks of Cloud in a test tube in Deepground, Cloud's outburst towards Elmyra saying how Hojo sees people as nothing but numbers and meat, Hojo stating he's "not a SOLDIER, not quite" and then Cloud being a literal vegetable having to be carried away by another SOLDIER... One might be led to believe Cloud is not who he says, or even what he says. There's something off about Cloud and it might be he's some freak experiment. He's clearly connected to Shinra but there's something off...

It's a framing of the same mystery of Cloud's past, just done in a different way using the same clues... Just rearranged in the game's presentation. No clear frame of reference exists for Zack, and it's now going to be especially crushing when more is revealed later on. I think they're doing things this way because they want to play with both old fans and new ones.

 

[minami758]

And that's what's so wild to me. It amuses me how this perspective been turned on it's head and what was so recent and present before, has become so distant.

While playing the earlier installments of the Compilation is definitely much more difficult and inaccessible, it's pretty easy to find full playthroughs of all the installments except maybe BC on YouTube, and even then you can find most of the cutscenes there. Honestly I'd say it's easier to find the older stuff nowadays because everything's on the internet.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

There's a more or less complete version of BC on grimoire valentine's channel

 

[Makoeyes987]

While playing the earlier installments of the Compilation is definitely much more difficult and inaccessible, it's pretty easy to find full playthroughs of all the installments except maybe BC on YouTube, and even then you can find most of the cutscenes there. Honestly I'd say it's easier to find the older stuff nowadays because everything's on the internet.

But that's not really the same thing, and only adds to the sense of removal these entries have when compared to games that are able to be experienced and played today. Yes, the knowledge of these games and all aren't lost, but there's a big difference between seeing a youtube playthrough of Crisis Core, and playing the game for itself. Those videos and playthroughs don't exist due to Square, they exist because of fans.

 

[minami758]

I'm not disagreeing with your point, I agree it's a totally different experience, I'm just talking about the point of entry/accessibility of the Compilation. I don't know, I think it's pretty nice to be able to see the whole story on YouTube for people who don't have access to it otherwise.

 

[cold_spirit]

I got my coworker to play it, who is only passing by familiar with the original because of some of the characters. After he was done I asked him what he thought of the whispers and some of the confusing plot stuff. He was just like "oh yeah, that was a cool final boss." He seemed like he really enjoyed the game.

To add to this, I have a good buddy who played FF7R as his first FF. He texted me afterwards "that was awesome." Again, that's just one case and proves nothing. From my own personal experience browsing social media, I'd argue I've seen more old fans concerned for new players than new players actually concerned themselves.

 

[Ite]

Those people are wrong and shouldn’t be having fun.

 

[Wol]

It was certainly fun, but it could have been fun and exciting and coherent... It doesn't need to stop at "fun".

 

[Clement Rage]

Wouldn't a corporate sellout version of FF7R be more likely to be a simple retread than taking a risk with something new?

Corporations are not afraid of anti-capitalist narratives. Those make money. They like money.

 

[Wol]

Wouldn't a corporate sellout version of FF7R be more likely to be a simple retread than taking a risk with something new?

Corporations are not afraid of anti-capitalist narratives. Those make money. They like money.

SQ sold the remake project as a faithful retelling though, I think many fans of the original would think twice before buying it if they knew about their intensions before-hand.

Gotta agree that SQ has balls to take risks, it will be interesting to see how much the sequels will sell considering the overall sell history of past FF sequels.

 

[Clement Rage]

Did they? I didn't watch any trailers.

 

[Teioh]

I'm more interested in knowing what new players thought about Cait Sith's appearance than what they thought about Zack's. At least there was some connection to Cloud and Aerith for Zack. There's literally no explanation for Cait Sith. I know that it definitely confused my dad

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I really didn't expect a beat by beat retelling and I know lots of other people didn't, either. We were discussing the likelihood of them going off the rails before the game came out.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Honestly, Cait Sith is the most hilariously random and acontextual inclusion of the entire Remake.

Out of all the things that could've been thrown in the game randomly that would make no sense, Cait Sith is pretty small on the scale. However, his scene is truly a random mix of wtf, adorable, sad, hilarious, and just totally out there. The sight of the cartoon plushy robo-cat beating his fist on the ground in despair during such a tragic scene is... Something else. I personally found it cute but it doesn't surprise me that it probably elicited some head turns of utter confusion.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

SQ sold the remake project as a faithful retelling though, I think many fans of the original would think twice before buying it if they knew about their intensions before-hand.

SE had plenty of opportunities in interviews and the like to explain it was more of a squeal or 5th Compilation Title than a traditional Remake. I don't blame them for not highlighting how it would be different in the trailers, as that isn't where developers can easily explain the intentions behind their creative decisions. But that they kept pushing the "it's a Remake of the OG with some minor changes" in interviews... that I don't get. I'd think it would be possible to say something to the effect of "it's a Remake, but not like how remakes usually are" without spoiling too much.

It very much feels like they were being super careful about what terms they are using to give the impression they thought would sell the game the best... rather than actually describing what kind of story they were really making. In fact, it still feels like that. Like the developers are going "we know you wanted this type of game, so we are hyping the game up as being what you want when we know it isn't really that". It makes for a lot of cross-referencing different interviews and trying to guess at what the developers are really getting at.

Gotta agree that SQ has balls to take risks, it will be interesting to see how much the sequels will sell considering the overall sell history of past FF sequels.

The other thing I'll be interested in seeing way in the future is how many people will wait for the entire FF7 "Remake" series to be finished before playing through it. Because I wouldn't be surprised if some people are jaded about SE actually finishing the series and want to wait. Or aren't interested in a game that doesn't have a proper "ending" yet.

 

[Claymore]

I disagree that they were coy specifically to help sell the game more. They were coy because they are very precious and careful with the narrative, and they wanted to keep the secret that this was not (just) a standard remake of the first and was also the next entry in the compilation.