SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

[The Twilight Mexican]

I disagree that they were coy specifically to help sell the game more. They were coy because they are very precious and careful with the narrative, and they wanted to keep the secret that this was not (just) a standard remake of the first and was also the next entry in the compilation.

I was trying to think of how to say precisely this.

I'll also add that I don't recall them saying only minor changes would take place; just that they feel like they know what can and can't be changed.

 

[Odysseus]

I know people were touting the "square tricked us" narrative because the box art just say "Final Fantasy VII Remake" without a "part 1" anywhere, but given Nomura's coy little comment about "Remake" having a special meaning, I get the feeling the next part will have a completely different subtitle.

 

[Ite]

Final Fantasy VII: Beyond Fate would be a catchy title.

 

[Tetsujin]

Honestly, Cait Sith is the most hilariously random and acontextual inclusion of the entire Remake.

Out of all the things that could've been thrown in the game randomly that would make no sense, Cait Sith is pretty small on the scale. However, his scene is truly a random mix of wtf, adorable, sad, hilarious, and just totally out there. The sight of the cartoon plushy robo-cat beating his fist on the ground in despair during such a tragic scene is... Something else. I personally found it cute but it doesn't surprise me that it probably elicited some head turns of utter confusion.

I have watched a few people who never played FFVII stream Remake and the pattern was generally always the same - Zack's big scene at the end wasn't entirely confusing but rather just seen as a setup for the next part or a mystery to solve (with some putting together that he is probably the ex Aerith was talking about). Cait Sith on the other hand? Impenetrable mystery. Who the fuck was that? Why were they in that scene? Why is it a CAT?! What?!

It's kinda hilarious.

 

[Odysseus]

Well they couldn't have him perving on his parents at the Honey Bee Inn anymore, so they had to put him somewhere.

 

[crazyrabbits23]

But for some strange, and obviously personal reason, they've resisted that strategy. Given how franchises today work to reboot every few years like clock work to capitalize on being entry-level and absorbing the maximum number of fans, the Remake is a clear aberration of the IP franchise model. But I'm almost certain that's by design. Kingdom Hearts existed in that same span of time the Compilation did and the creators there made sure to neatly release several collections of every relevant work on each system to lead up to KH3.

No such collection was done for the Remake of FFVII. Maybe we'll get one later on (which has been repeated since 2009) but until then they clearly feel content letting the Remake speak for itself and be it's own advertisement for jumping on board this train to who-knows-where. It clearly needs no help and the mystery is simply part of the fun. They don't want it to be neatly laid out. And if some new fan wants to take the plunge to dive even deeper, they want that fan to drown in that sea of FFVII apocrypha

Now you've gone and made me remember how there has never been a complete FF franchise collection in one unified format.

The closest we ever got was the 25th Anniversary Ultimate Set, which was:

(a) only released in Japan (meaning if you wanted it here, get ready for big import charges)
(b) only made for the PS3 in mind (but utilizing PS1 and PS2 discs, lol), and;
(c) is nowhere near the definitive version of any of the titles

For instance, one of my favourite FF's is IV. I love it - a true childhood staple. I can't currently buy a complete version of FFIV on PC. The original, unmodified OG SNES/Famicom versions aren't available without resorting to piracy. The only copy of IV I can buy is the revamped "chibi" version on PC, with none of the extras of the other variants. I can't buy the PSP "Complete Collection" that had the bestiary and exclusive "Interlude" chapter that has never been released. The version of The After Years I can buy on Steam is missing challenge dungeons that were present in the original "episodic" version of the mobile game.

Now that I think about it, I'm going to go write an article on this on TVTropes.

 

[Jairus]

I know people were touting the "square tricked us" narrative because the box art just say "Final Fantasy VII Remake" without a "part 1" anywhere, but given Nomura's coy little comment about "Remake" having a special meaning, I get the feeling the next part will have a completely different subtitle.

Final Fantasy VII: Reborn
Final Fantasy VII: Reverse
Final Fantasy VII: Rewind
Final Fantasy VII: Renewal
Final Fantasy VII: Reworked
Final Fantasy VII: Rescinded
Final Fantasy VII: Reloaded
Final Fantasy VII: Revolutions
Final Fantasy VII: Replay
Final Fantasy VII: Reboot
Final Fantasy VII: Retired

 

[Wol]

FFVII.25 - Re:borned (because Zack reborns in an alternate reality and tries to save Aerith in Gaia 1)
FFVII.28 - After Crisis (Zack changes his name to Fenrir, becomes a villain)
FFVII.3 - Close to the Edge (Fenrir blows up the moon to avoid the edge of creation)
FFVII.32 - A Cloud in the Sky novel (Sora wakes up in Gaia and fights Cloud)
FFVII.4 - The Call of Fenrir movie (feat. some Kingdom Hearts characters killing Zack)

How can I make this worse?

 

[Ite]

You could make Final Fantasy VII the subtitle. *side-eyes Vincent*

 

[Gazzdw]

Be interested to know if anyone else was REALLY annoyed by the same tiny detail (aside from being crap addition/change to the story) but there were at least 2 occasions where whispers literally pushed characters off screen and it faded to black and suddenly they are back somewhere else? Its like how a child would do it. Really infuriated me, especially as it came after such a fantastic level and scene in the underground lab and then Wedge in the Shrina HQ.

I saw someone say on one of the forums a Whispers cut version of the game would make it so much better (problematic for the ending though).

Honestly what I took from the trailers before the release I thought the whispers wouldnt interfere that much to the story and certainly scenes. But jeeze.....

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Just saw this on Reddit, looks a lot like certain bartender
https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/i0ucbt

 

[KindOfBlue]

Just saw this on Reddit, looks a lot like certain bartender
https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/i0ucbt View attachment 7262

I would’ve guessed Jenova since Tifa’s hair is darker and parted differently

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Some people brought up a interesting point in that thread, it doesn't make sense for Cloud to remember any of those other experiments since in Nibelheim 5 years ago, it was just Zack and him and we know from all the other depiction of the Nibel incidence that the laboratory in the basement has only two tanks so what the fug did Cloud see there and where did it come from?

Edit: So I looked that scene up since my memories were a bit fuzzy and it looks more like that those images are not memories but just images of those poor souls who are still chilling in those tubes lol

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Some people brought up a interesting point in that thread, it doesn't make sense for Cloud to remember any of those other experiments since in Nibelheim 5 years ago, it was just Zack and him and we know from all the other depiction of the Nibel incidence that the laboratory in the basement has only two tanks so what the fug did Cloud see there and where did it come from?

Edit: So I looked that scene up since my memories were a bit fuzzy and it looks more like that those images are not memories but just images of those poor souls who are still chilling in those tubes lol

This likely is just someone in the Deepground tubes, yes, but Cloud and Zack weren't the only injured survivors of Nibelheim experimented on by Hojo.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

This likely is just someone in the Deepground tubes, yes, but Cloud and Zack weren't the only injured survivors of Nibelheim experimented on by Hojo.

Well, that's news to me lol
So after the Nibelheim incidence there were other people also captured?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Yes, the other black-cloaked folks in the original game were also from Nibelheim. For example, the two on the upper floor of that one house in the present day had been the kids playing there during the flashback.

 

[Eerie]

Zangan really saved Tifa by arriving there first :s I hadn't realised this either.

 

[kathy202]

It'll be interesting to see if they flesh out Tifa's side of the story about what happened between Nibelheim and Midgar, and how she ended up with Avalanche.

 

[ultima786]

Some people brought up a interesting point in that thread, it doesn't make sense for Cloud to remember any of those other experiments since in Nibelheim 5 years ago, it was just Zack and him and we know from all the other depiction of the Nibel incidence that the laboratory in the basement has only two tanks so what the fug did Cloud see there and where did it come from?

Edit: So I looked that scene up since my memories were a bit fuzzy and it looks more like that those images are not memories but just images of those poor souls who are still chilling in those tubes lol

They may be Jenova’s memories?

 

[LegendarySaiyan]

Just rewatched the scene with the party discovering the pods with the experiments below Sector 7 and for me it does not look like as if Cloud remembers a female in a pod. It is more like he sees the male and female experiments in the pods below Sector 7 and remembers himself in a pod in Nibelheim.

The camera shifts to what is inside those pods in Sector 7 which are human experiments and there is male and female experiments. Cloud then sees himself (remembering).

Also another note, those monster he sees could also the be experiments at Mt. Nibel

Spoiler

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The memories of Gaia and Terra that make up Memoria created a path to the very past, leading to the genesis of everything in the Crystal World where the original Crystal of existence resides. Tracing those memories further and further back, which were spawned through the Iifa Tree expelling all that mist thanks to Kuja nuking Terra, allowed Memoria to be created and Kuja to essentially read his way all the way back in time. Because memories are all interconnected and if you follow them all back... You can get to the source of everything.

My only point was that it easily fits and is possible. That's not to say that everything that's possible should be done, but I wouldn't say that it's somehow breaking FFVII's rules of fantasy, because it doesn't. How it manages to juggle it all remains to be seen.

Juat quoting this as it makes for a great jumping off point for an observation I'm about to make utilizing the recently localized "Final Fantasy XV: The Dawn of the Future."

When the story recounts Noctis's time inside the Crystal of Eos (a Lifestream-like place referred to as the planet's heart, and where the souls of numerous characters who die in the story are seen), he relives "memories" that he never had (they actually belong to the Noctis from FFVersusXIII), and this explanation accompanies that experience:

Given the similarities in cosmology between XV and VII (lighter than those shared between X and VII, to be sure, but still present), I wonder if we might be looking at an explanation for the mechanics behind VIIR's possible time travel/alternate universe shenanigans?

 

[Makoeyes987]

That's a really interesting observation. And yeah, I think that's... a pretty accurate perspective and would make sense with FFVII-R.

I mean, that's sorta what I meant when I said it was a loop of time being recounted/presented within FFVII's world. It's basically a playback of an AU that the planet would be witnessing of it's own past, and that would give it the knowledge to render a judgment through Holy... But that would then be distorted because of the presence of another force within that memory/universe, which would be Sephiroth.

It's sort of like how a crystal can refract light and the light ends up changing course by just a slight angle from the point of refraction, but then goes wildly off course because of that one change.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Sorry, I don't think I was clear. I still think any form of the "playback" idea would be a bigger steaming pile than time ghost plot police or Genesis showing up as the final villain could manage to be.

I was just referring to a possibility that for the Lifestream, all potentialities are neighbors in a multiversal reality -- except of course when "fate" keeps them all along a desired course that reduces drastic deviation. Anywho, if this is the case, I'm wondering if this property of the Lifestream could lend to certain powerful interlopers "crossing the streams," so to speak.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Well you have to explain why the Arbiters of Fate are a thing in this alt-universe of FFVII-R, and why are they trying to keep things from being different.

It being an AU that's connected to the lifeblood of the planet and a refraction of it's metaphorical crystal makes sense, but what ultimately is the reason for the planet to want to keep history the same and not wish for it to deviate? That implies that's actually a mistake, not a norm. And why would there be a force trying to make it deviate anyways? These are the questions that have to be answered to explain why the FFVII-R story is playing out differently. The Lifestream rendering judgment on humanity by essentially witnessing an AU was just one explanation for why the FFVII-R universe is different and having Arbiters of Fate try to keep things the same but there's also other explanations.

In the end, whatever is causing FFVII-R's story to be as it is, is because there's force at work making it so. It's not an organic manifestation like on Eos. FFXV had the manifestation of just numerous possibilities being reflected by the Eos Crystal. Why's that happening in FFVII's world?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I'm suggesting that it is an organic thing with VII's world, but "fate" (lowercase) is trying to reduce deviation for whatever reason. I wasn't especially interested in trying to answer the question of whatever that reason is so much as wondering whether the proximity of possibility is what allows for transfer from one timeline to another.