SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

C

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
'They try to keep fate on track' is justification enough, I think? Contact with Aeris alone can't be it, because Tseng can't
see them (unless he is randomly trolling Rufus, I suppose?)

It's theoretically possible for Rufus to meet Aeris, but I can't really see it happening outside a shipping fic. Shinra HQ is big, and you don't just wander into the research labs.
 
Rydeen

Rydeen

In-KWEH-dible
It seems like Rufus never knew all that much about Hojo's research either. For example, the fact that Sephiroth was not an Ancient (or maybe he was blowing smoke). That's from the OG continuity though.. I suppose they could have met, but that doesn't solve the Tseng issue.

I'd always figured Rufus could see them because he always had a strong hand in fate. And everyone who interacts with Aerith at length would inevitably also become woven into fate or the subversion thereof.

Pretty sure they'd implied a few months ago that people don't necessarily have to be in contact with Aerith to see them

Mr. Ite said:
Rufus could have met Aeris, they’re about the same age
Click to expand...

He's apparently 30 now :/
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
This is less of a Scarlet question than a question about Shinra's business model.

On one of the loading screens it says Scarlett was promoted to the Board because her weapons division made such a big profit for Shinra during the war. My question is, since this is presumably the war with Wutai that we're talking about, and since that war was between Shinra and Wutai, to whom exactly was Scarlett's weapons division selling arms in order to make this huge profit?

I mean I suppose Shinra could be selling arms to itself and just doing some fancy accountancy moving sums from one departmental spreadsheet to another, but do we think that's what the loading screen means? Were they selling weapons to Wutai? I wouldn't put it past them.

I'm asking this question here because I know you guys are really good at coming up with plausible explanations for lines that, at first glance, seem to be throwaway nonsense.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Profits aren't strictly tied to sales. Profits are financial gains from expenditures which exceed costs of production, manufacturing, etc.

Considering this was from war, it makes perfect sense that thanks to Scarlet's Weapons manufacturing division, Shinra was able to far exceed their costs of manufacturing and labor through conquest and acquisition of territory and resources. Meaning the costs that were invested in weapon development were exceeded by profit from the victory they earned. Shinra sucessfully conquered Wutai and by definition the world, thereby justifying her division and executive position.

It's very likely they did sell weapons, however. Who knows what private mercenaries or weaponry sales were made to other towns/cities along that time. It's not like Shinra has competition.
 
K

kathy202

Pro Adventurer
Yeah, I imagined they might have sold some to the Shinra-friendly towns who had allowed them to build Mako reactors locally. You could say it's on Shinra to defend their property, but Shinra could also say that it's property that benefits the local population or some other rubbish excuse.

But random towns in the world paying "taxes" likely wouldn't be a huge source of revenue, so yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Makoeyes about the profits being in terms of what they gained from their conquests.
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
It'll be interesting to see what they gained exactly when we get to Wutai. They never built so much as a single reactor there as far as I can recall, but maybe the Remake will be different or maybe it's a fantastic source of other raw materials and natural resources.

Yes, Mako, there really isn't any other interpretation of those lines that make sense. Her department didn't make a profit in the usual sense of sales exceeding costs, but rather by facilitating Shinra's victory. It's just such an odd way to think of a war, at least to my mind, but I can see a company would think of a war in terms of their balance sheet.

I am rather partial to the notion of Shinra selling weapons to Wutai through some third party company that Wutai doesn't know Shinra owns, and only selling weapons to which they had rather more powerful anti-weapons. Now that's good business.
 
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Ite

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
It could be that Scarlet also sold weapons to Wutai, at a huge markup. It wouldn’t be surprising for her to roll up to town like Harold Hill, sell weapons to Wutai with the promise of standing up to Shinra, selling them flashy crap for the cameras, allowing her ally Shinra to justify blowing them back to the silver age. That’s profit!

It could also be that Scarlet was a normal weapons dealer profiting off of both sides, but became so fabulously wealthy by the end of the war that her enterprise was Shinra’s obvious next target, but she was smart and let herself be bought, not crushed.
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
I like that a lot as a story, but IIRC the loading screen said her department made a profit for Shinra during the war. It would have been cool, though, if she was an independent arms manufacturers making a killing (figuratively speaking
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Yeah, @Mr. Ite brought up a really incredible idea I'm surprised I never even thought of.

Shinra would totally do that. And it wouldn't even be sabotaged equipment. Maybe older or separate weaponry but they'd still work fine because they'd want buyer trust, it'd be profitable and overall it would allow Shinra to paint their Wutai opposition as a threat that justified such intense and amplified efforts.

It's so on brand. This is the same company that would murder hundreds of thousands of their citizens for propaganda, burn down villages to protect trade secrets and sacrifice their own employees to sate the curiosity of the head of their Science Division. Shinra are willing to do whatever it takes to maintain profits and control.

Hell, Rufus funded AVALANCHE. How the hell did he have their number on speed dial anyways? How did that contact even happen?
 
Ite

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
Yeah I was just riffin' on what you said. :)

Don't know the exact wording of the loading screen, the original Japanese, or what, but I think it's plausible that our scenario could be true from a certain Obi-Wan point of view. Shinra's spin might be "She's ours now, which means everything she ever did was for us."
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
Can you imagine the poor grunts in the field when they realise Wutai are using Shinra's own weapons against them? And the Shinra propaganda machine is like, "Bad people are stealing our peacemaking technology and selling it to our enemies. This evil will not stand. We will win this war and make the world safe for good people everywhere." Meanwhile President Shinra is sending his Turks to bust a double-dealing arms smuggler who happens to be his pal out of a Wutai prison (Special Case of Legend, Before Crisis).
 
Ite

Ite

Save your valediction (she/her)
AKA
Ite
LicoriceAllsorts said:
Can you imagine the poor grunts in the field when they realise Wutai are using Shinra's own weapons against them? And the Shinra propaganda machine is like, "Bad people are stealing our peacemaking technology and selling it to our enemies. This evil will not stand. We will win this war and make the world safe for good people everywhere." Meanwhile President Shinra is sending his Turks to bust a double-dealing arms smuggler who happens to be his pal out of a Wutai prison (Special Case of Legend, Before Crisis).
Click to expand...

Also, this gives us the opportunity to really put our SOLDIER program to the test.
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
Exactly! "Tested in controlled field conditions." It makes it much easier when you know exactly what weapons your SOLDIERs are going to face.

Edited to add: since there is literally nobody else on the entire planet for Shinra to wage war on, maybe they provoked the Wutai war precisely in order to be able to test their SOLDIER program. I don't know, maybe that's even canon? Anyway, we can't have been the first people to think it.
 
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