SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

Fade

SHR
At one point I sort of decided that Wutai's methods of war are probably a kind of "old magic", likely using the many magic items found throughout VII's world (monster parts, generally) perhaps combined with some way to use them to maximum effectiveness. I think I might have taken some inspiration from the idea that traditional FF ninja attacks (including the "veil" items found in VII) are ninja scrolls, and the fact that Yuffie uses these as an NPC enemy. And maybe they had samurai swords somehow "folded" with spirit energy in a process taking decades, in keeping with an FF samurai's "draw out" skills. Whatever the methods, I sort of like the idea that Wutai did, in theory, have power to match Shinra, but Shinra's were the modern short-cut to the same ends. In other words, it took decades to produce a skilled and equipped ninja/samurai etc. while Shinra was dipping fourteen-year-olds in goo and injecting them with space alien to produce supersoldiers in days. Just some heavy headcanon, for ya.
 

Clement Rage

Pro Adventurer
That's the thing about dealing with nations in videogames, we don't really get a clear picture, because they can't actually show everything one to one.

(Hence things like 'only one farm focused on high end racing birds' and such) Shortcuts are necessary.

My impression was always that you can't actually mass produce SOLDIER, hence Cloud not making the cut. If you don't carefully choose your candidate, they turn into a monster or lose their minds, hence they're a relatively small group that fit on one floor of Shinra HQ.

When you try to mass produce them, you get mindless Ravens, Degrading Genesis copies, or Mako dependent Deepground.

Shinra can produce materia, but Zack has to go find his own to get anything good and it's mostly SOLDIER that uses it.

You could argue things both ways. OG has Shinra not projecting much power outside their bases of power, Midgar and Junon. Big operations involve a few troopers or the Turks. A lot of that may be 'we can't afford to animate all that'' but you could say the same for Wutai. It's a giant continent, I see very little reason to take their whole civilisation to be that one town, because you'd need more than that to build all those big structures and statues, like you need more than one farm to feed Midgar.

If you have, say, a 2,000 mile long front, one SOLDIER can't make that much difference even if that SOLDIER is Sephiroth.

The 'selling to both sides' thing isn't actually historically very common, would be less profitable than just invading anyway, and would be very difficult to conceal, because where else do these mystery traders get these giant caches of Shinra brand weapons?

We see Wutai forces at the end of the war using distinctive mass produced gear that is visibly different from Shinra's.

It could go either way, but I feel like if they really go with the idea that Shinra could destroy Wutai effortlessly but chose not to for no reason, that would be improbably simplistic and lazy worldbuilding that at a minimum breaks Yuffie's motivation as a character.
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Don't know where to put this... but this is a bit of a Easter Egg... I think... or rather I hope it is... If it's like Shinra in FFX having a connection to Shira in FFVII that... would be a problem...

So... in the Cetra Hologram... there's one spot where we get to see what a Cetran Airship looks like...

ffviir_cetra_hologram_ffxiv_airship-png.8582


So their were Airships back in the Cetra Era... except... I know that airship. And it's not from FF7... it's from FF14...

20201212_173429.jpg


Specifically, it's Cid Garlond's personal airship. As for who Cid Garlond is... he's the head of the Ironworks, a tech company that is... basically the opposite of what Shinra is. They make the most high-tech stuff in the world when they aren't making Dues ex Machina for FFXIV's hero. And by "making Dues ex Machina", I mean they managed to synthesize the technology of at least three difference civilizations into a machine that could dimension/time travel to force a time-line split so history would turn out better than it had the first time (which worked). The guy who built that airship is the guy who figured out they could actually put that dimension/time travel plot off.

Having the airship of that kind of guy show up in the Cetra Era is... both funny (Cetra with Ironworks-level tech is a great mental image) and also worrying given how other FF crossover Easter Eggs in FF7 have turned out (problematic for lore and history).

Or it could just be the cut-scene team needing some concept art for an airship and copying something that looks right off a seven-year-old piece o concept art for another FF game instead of making new concept art... But I kinda don't think it's that given that it's been established since Case of Cid that Cid Highwind dug up the engine of a Cetran airship to use as the Shera's power source...
 

Wol

None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
AKA
Rosarian Shield
The movie propaganda was just Shinra's vision of the Cetras and don't necessarily represent reality. I mean, you can see how they conveniently designed their city structures to look the same as Midgar's basic layout (8 big rocks with a big castle on the middle).

Now why Shinra would have a similar airship design in their databanks is another story.
 

ForceStealer

Double Growth
The movie propaganda was just Shinra's vision of the Cetras and don't necessarily represent reality. I mean, you can see how they conveniently designed their city structures to look the same as Midgar's basic layout (8 big rocks with a big castle on the middle).

Now why Shinra would have a similar airship design in their databanks is another story.

And of course the most blatant - showing Midgar being built on what was already a wasteland, instead of having created it :monster:
 

Fiz

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Eh?
If it’s anything more than just reusing a preexisting airship design/model for efficiency sake, I imagine it’s at most an homage to the Cetra resembling “classic Final Fantasy” magitek aesthetics, which FFXIV is the most recent example of.

I agree, I suspect it's just an easter egg. If it was something compilation or maiden who travels the planet related then I'd pay more attention to it because they're part of the wider lore and story of FFVII, or even FFX related because they share the same universe. But outside of that, I'd consider it nothing more than an easter egg for fans to notice.
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Like I said, I hope it's just an easter egg. But we all know what was said by Nojima and Co. about Shinra being an "easter egg" in FFX... and then cheekily referenced in Remake...
 

Littlewing

Pro Adventurer
AKA
human
I haven't played through the entire game yet, but I am left with a feeling that it's not seemingly as romantic as past final fantasies, which surprises me quite a bit since it's a remake as well.
There are some moments that I really loved like particularly at Jesse's house, but it was unstated and just in general it's this overall sense and feeling that are not quite as invoked in this remake, I wonder why that is? They made it a lot more grounded and realistic but I enjoyed how the last games had kind of a soft quality.
like even FF15 with the start of the game pushing the car and things like that.

The music and start of the remake were very beautiful, I was really impressed, but even then there was kind of this sharp expansive and piercing quality.

But then, that's what's different about it, because some moments felt more tense and uncertain other moments seemed to linger more in the moment and scenery but still it is like the overall sensibilities or tone has shifted and it's changed from being kind of soft and dreamy to something else that's similar but harder to describe. I want to say it's more "mature" in some ways, but it's hard to say. It's less romantic in some ways and way more richer feeling (but not indulgent) type of experience.

I guess that's the thing about it, it's just not dreamy at all. I kind of like it in some ways, but it's kind of startling. Like going from the streets of midgar after the reactor explosion, then the bar and then the slums with Aerith, they all just felt like very deeply felt and rich experiences.

But I guess it's just a difficult time for dreamers. I guess some of the games always felt more idyllic and laid back, this one has way different quality.

A sad time for dreamers and romantics you could say in correction.
85415b2683b4a1e33dde2c285af0e384.png
 
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ultima786

Pro Adventurer
AKA
ultima
I haven't played through the entire game yet, but I am left with a feeling that it's not seemingly as romantic as past final fantasies, which surprises me quite a bit since it's a remake as well.
There are some moments that I really loved like particularly at Jesse's house, but it was unstated and just in general it's this overall sense and feeling that are not quite as invoked in this remake, I wonder why that is? They made it a lot more grounded and realistic but I enjoyed how the last games had kind of a soft quality.
like even FF15 with the start of the game pushing the car and things like that.

The music and start of the remake were very beautiful, I was really impressed, but even then there was kind of this sharp expansive and piercing quality.

But then, that's what's different about it, because some moments felt more tense and uncertain other moments seemed to linger more in the moment and scenery but still it is like the overall sensibilities or tone has shifted and it's changed from being kind of soft and dreamy to something else that's similar but harder to describe. I want to say it's more "mature" in some ways, but it's hard to say. It's less romantic in some ways and way more richer feeling (but not indulgent) type of experience.

I guess that's the thing about it, it's just not dreamy at all. I kind of like it in some ways, but it's kind of startling. Like going from the streets of midgar after the reactor explosion, then the bar and then the slums with Aerith, they all just felt like very deeply felt and rich experiences.

But I guess it's just a difficult time for dreamers. I guess some of the games always felt more idyllic and laid back, this one has way different quality.

A sad time for dreamers and romantics you could say in correction.
85415b2683b4a1e33dde2c285af0e384.png
its romantic. And it’s magic. I have no idea what you or i am saying but those are my feelings that I just vomited out.
 

waw

Pro Adventurer
Oi! Oi!

FF1/FF2/FF3/FF4/FF5/FF6/FF9 are not romance-centered either! :@
Is this a troll?

Cecil and Rosa are central to FF4 with the romance being important to how Cecil grows as a character, and the relationship with Kain. Their marriage is important for the sequel too...

FF9 has a romance at the very heart of it. Garnet and Zidane... I mean... the whole thing is their love story. It's undoubtedly romantic.

FF2 and FF5 have some subtext but they aren't really romantic. FF1 has next to no characterization of the heroes, and that isn't romantic either.

FF6... This one is hard for me. I feel like romance surrounds the story in a lot of ways, but it's probably not "centered" on it either.

But I'll fight you to the death over FF4 and FF9 being romances. I think when we see FF8, and FF10 the romance elements are pretty undeniable!
 

Sephiroth Crescent

Way Ahead of the Plot
I said romance-centered.

FF9 has a romance at the very heart of it. Garnet and Zidane... I mean... the whole thing is their love story. It's undoubtedly romantic.
Nope. FF9 ain't a Disney story. But it is a love-letter to the series. :lol:

Reducing FF4 and FF9 to romance is... like saying FF8 or FF10 don't have much romance. :mon:

PS: FF9, the best FF kid in town. :desu:
 

waw

Pro Adventurer
Why are you positioning this as an either/or scenario? FF9 can be a love letter to the series but also feature a romance central to the character progression. The love story between Zidane and Garnet grounds the characters, motivates them, and keeps the narrative cohesive. It opens with the kidnapping and ends with their reunion. It's their love story.

But my comments aren't reductive in *any* way. FF7 has punk elements. Oh no, I reduced it! :P I did not say they are "only" romances with nothing else in them. But the main characters motivations and journeys are deeply tied to romance, nonetheless.

The main characters, of which the stories revolve, are deeply involved in romances that propel their character (arcs, growth, and literal movements) forward in each 4, 8, 9, and 10.
 
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