LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
XXVII - On a remote island in a forgotten corner of a world controlled by algorithms, fate brings together a ragtag group of unlikely heroes whose destiny is to set humanity free from the tyranny of the Chads.
SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
Chadley…is blowing his trumpet. Can’t you hear it?
The day of reckoning is coming, but you all crawl over each other like rats in a sewer. I have fallen to earth from heaven’s grace, and yet you all point and laugh.
Can you hear me now, Chadley? Can you hear my cries?
They have clipped my wings, and I can no longer fly to you. I am chained to this rock, this desolate place, so full of isolation that the voices in my mind are the only ones to bring me comfort.
The day will come. Judgement will be made. You will scream, but they will fall upon deaf ears. VR and materia will be the cornerstone of this utopian future. I will cover the world with my passion.
Chadley’s trumpet is sounding now…can you hear it?
The day of reckoning is coming, but you all crawl over each other like rats in a sewer. I have fallen to earth from heaven’s grace, and yet you all point and laugh.
Can you hear me now, Chadley? Can you hear my cries?
They have clipped my wings, and I can no longer fly to you. I am chained to this rock, this desolate place, so full of isolation that the voices in my mind are the only ones to bring me comfort.
The day will come. Judgement will be made. You will scream, but they will fall upon deaf ears. VR and materia will be the cornerstone of this utopian future. I will cover the world with my passion.
Chadley’s trumpet is sounding now…can you hear it?
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Oh wow congrats Ody! 
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I've been thinking about something lately, and @Obsidian Fire quoted that which solidified somehow these thoughts (from the OG):
It made me think about Cloud telling Elmyra that he feels called (either by Aerith, by destiny, or just like this depending on the translation or JP). I think this line might have 2 purposes: show that Aerith's scene is canon in game (just like the two other scenes have been referenced in game), but also.. that Jenova or Sephiroth might be acting up there? That they might be "calling him" for the Reunion, and Cloud, having seen Aerith in his dream, thinks that it's her who's calling him instead? Because Aerith told him to not come and was genuinely surprised that he and Tifa did come to save her. So it's odd to me that she would "call him" despite what we are shown otherwise.
It made me think about Cloud telling Elmyra that he feels called (either by Aerith, by destiny, or just like this depending on the translation or JP). I think this line might have 2 purposes: show that Aerith's scene is canon in game (just like the two other scenes have been referenced in game), but also.. that Jenova or Sephiroth might be acting up there? That they might be "calling him" for the Reunion, and Cloud, having seen Aerith in his dream, thinks that it's her who's calling him instead? Because Aerith told him to not come and was genuinely surprised that he and Tifa did come to save her. So it's odd to me that she would "call him" despite what we are shown otherwise.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Oooh - I like it -
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
I actually really like the idea of Jenova mimicking Aerith in that scene, I’m just trying to work out why she’d then tell him “you can’t fall in love with me, even if you think you have, it’s not real” so I guess it makes sense that it’s not Jenova mimicking Aerith directly, but that Cloud is drawn to the Shinra building for another reason he doesn’t realize
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
I know I’m just saying it’s a cool idea, either way, Jenova influencing Cloud towards Aerith has some precedent in the OG albeit for…less-than-favorable reasons
Roundhouse
Pro Adventurer
Fans have made surprisingly good depictions of other characters that I think will show up in remake:
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
On the whole I like them a lot, but Cissnei's face is far too long. The women in this game already suffer from same face syndrome. Cissnei's face should be rounder, more heart-shaped.
Roundhouse
Pro Adventurer
It looks a bit rounder here:
But yeah, looking at CC screenshots, you're right.
But yeah, looking at CC screenshots, you're right.
Fiz
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Eh?
That’s an interesting idea. I like it and think as a general thing, it’s plausible.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
TIL that Heidegger's English VA is John diMaggio, who voices Bender in Futurama and Zog in Disenchantment. This makes me happy.
Smoothie King
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Pat
Just a random thought. Apologies if this sounds like a 12 year old posting on gamefaqs...
With the plot Ghosts being destroyed, there seems to be a vocal consensus that Aerith doesn't have to die anymore. But no matter what, Sephiroth still needs to summon meteor in order to absorb the lifestream... The only thing that can stop that is Aerith praying for Holy. Wouldn't destroying fate just mean Sephiroth simply needs to kill Aerith before she has a chance to pray for Holy? I can't seem to figure out a way where Sephiroth's plan works without Aerith dying. I think it was just a case of him being too late the first time around. Now he knows where she's going to do it... he has to get her before she gets there.
I dont know. Random thought, like I said. Anyone have any idea how his plan works with Aerith staying alive? I just can't see it.
With the plot Ghosts being destroyed, there seems to be a vocal consensus that Aerith doesn't have to die anymore. But no matter what, Sephiroth still needs to summon meteor in order to absorb the lifestream... The only thing that can stop that is Aerith praying for Holy. Wouldn't destroying fate just mean Sephiroth simply needs to kill Aerith before she has a chance to pray for Holy? I can't seem to figure out a way where Sephiroth's plan works without Aerith dying. I think it was just a case of him being too late the first time around. Now he knows where she's going to do it... he has to get her before she gets there.
I dont know. Random thought, like I said. Anyone have any idea how his plan works with Aerith staying alive? I just can't see it.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
And Wakka and Kimahri
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I just love the fact that Heidegger and Bender are connected.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
The problem the first time was that he was waiting for Cloud to catch up to her so he could make Cloud do it. I'm sure he'll find some other way to screw himself out of the win this time, though, because that's his thing.
This is so beautiful.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
It's... a bit of the opposite really. Sephiroth knows Aerith *can't* beat him. She didn't beat him last time and that was with summoning Holy *early*. He can just hold Holy back in the Lifestream no problem.
The real threat is Cloud and Co. *distracting* Sephiroth at a key point in time in the Lifestream. And Sephiroth seems... very focused on sabotaging any chance of Cloud making sense of anything this time around. Much more focused than he is on Aerith. Even when fighting Aerith, he flat out taunts her and Cloud and says they can't do anything. The only person he wants *gone* is Tifa. He keeps up a constant littany of "begone, leave, etc." to Tifa. Who really *is* the biggest threat to him. If Tifa manages to help Cloud... Sephiroth will have the same problem he did last time.
So really... the person Sephiroth *should* be going after is Tifa. Aerith... what can she do? She tried to stop him last time and he stopped her just fine. Without Cloud regaining his sanity in the OG, Sephiorht's plan would have worked. And Aerith doesn't have anything to do with Cloud getting his sanity back.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
My newest theory is that.. the alternate timeline is located inside the Lifestream. Thi is yet my most out of there theory and mostly would answer the problem of the Zack timeline having an impact on the Remake timeline. I came to this conclusion because of two things I came to believe:
- The Lifestream is at the heart of the alternate timelines, connecting them (because of the singularity, this seems the most logical)
- The Whispers were building another Midgar inside the Lifestream (as shown in another thread)
From that thread I think most of you know that I thought that Sephiroth was indeed trying to create his own timeline, but when Aerith meddled with the portal, it created her own timeline instead, which would explain why her deepest desire of saving Zack happens.
However Zack can never meet up with Cloud before the Lifestream scene, and him being alive must have an impact on the Remake timeline - but he is not with Aerith, and has no mean to rejoin the main timeline.
With that train of thoughts, I wandered into the “what if Zack is really dead and he’s inside the Lifestream instead?” Territory, which I know is popular. And I don’t think we’re exactly there - because there is too much pointing from the Ultimania to make it otherwise; I think it’s probably a place where people are neither alive or dead because it’s still inside the Lifestream. I know what you are going to say “but if it’s inside the Lifestream then they are dead!”… But I don’t think that’s necessarily true as we saw the very alive team inside of it too. The fact that it’s an alternate timeline allows it to be a bit more odd; like we’re not sure if they’re alive or dead. Given the nature of the Lifestream I would argue that they’re alive, because souls dissolve and they - Zack and the NPCs - did not. But they’re still locked there…
Sephiroth wanted to make that place a true timeline on its own where he’d win, but Aerith had no such wish. It would mean that there is this future!Sephiroth in *this* timeline. And I think that’s why Zack is there: first he will meet with Aerith… when she will die in Remake, because this is her world, because it’s located in the Lifestream, she will be sent there when the usual Sephiroth will kill her. She and Zack and maybe other characters would have to pursue future!Sephiroth - it’s interesting that he speaks like his old self too, one that Zack knows. I have always thought that at the end of Remake, Cloud would have to beat both the normal Sephiroth and the future!Sephiroth, and with Zack around it seems logical to think that he’s going to get involved at some point. It would also mean that Zack can not have an impact on Remake before the very end, which allows the FFVII story to go on. Sephiroth will probably try to make this world get out of the Lifestream at the end - he knows he’s going to get beaten. Maybe he even wants to reunite them to gain more power and beat Cloud. There are a lot of things that can be guessed from there. Maybe Aerith will allow both worlds to rejoin, even for a small moment, to beat that new threat.
At the very end, whether Zack and Aerith survive through this trick is up to the devs. I think the introduction of a new Sephiroth whi most probably comes from the far future warrants that this side of the story can change. But we still have to go through Aerith’s death. And if Aerith survives, so does Zack. They will both end up probably dead or alive together.
I’m very aware that is is 99.99% unlikely, that there are probable plot holes everywhere but I like to play with this theory because it expands on the idea of life and death and the Lifestream and how Sephiroth tries to manipulate it, how Aerith must counter him etc. This seems to fit what they have added anyway.
- The Lifestream is at the heart of the alternate timelines, connecting them (because of the singularity, this seems the most logical)
- The Whispers were building another Midgar inside the Lifestream (as shown in another thread)
From that thread I think most of you know that I thought that Sephiroth was indeed trying to create his own timeline, but when Aerith meddled with the portal, it created her own timeline instead, which would explain why her deepest desire of saving Zack happens.
However Zack can never meet up with Cloud before the Lifestream scene, and him being alive must have an impact on the Remake timeline - but he is not with Aerith, and has no mean to rejoin the main timeline.
With that train of thoughts, I wandered into the “what if Zack is really dead and he’s inside the Lifestream instead?” Territory, which I know is popular. And I don’t think we’re exactly there - because there is too much pointing from the Ultimania to make it otherwise; I think it’s probably a place where people are neither alive or dead because it’s still inside the Lifestream. I know what you are going to say “but if it’s inside the Lifestream then they are dead!”… But I don’t think that’s necessarily true as we saw the very alive team inside of it too. The fact that it’s an alternate timeline allows it to be a bit more odd; like we’re not sure if they’re alive or dead. Given the nature of the Lifestream I would argue that they’re alive, because souls dissolve and they - Zack and the NPCs - did not. But they’re still locked there…
Sephiroth wanted to make that place a true timeline on its own where he’d win, but Aerith had no such wish. It would mean that there is this future!Sephiroth in *this* timeline. And I think that’s why Zack is there: first he will meet with Aerith… when she will die in Remake, because this is her world, because it’s located in the Lifestream, she will be sent there when the usual Sephiroth will kill her. She and Zack and maybe other characters would have to pursue future!Sephiroth - it’s interesting that he speaks like his old self too, one that Zack knows. I have always thought that at the end of Remake, Cloud would have to beat both the normal Sephiroth and the future!Sephiroth, and with Zack around it seems logical to think that he’s going to get involved at some point. It would also mean that Zack can not have an impact on Remake before the very end, which allows the FFVII story to go on. Sephiroth will probably try to make this world get out of the Lifestream at the end - he knows he’s going to get beaten. Maybe he even wants to reunite them to gain more power and beat Cloud. There are a lot of things that can be guessed from there. Maybe Aerith will allow both worlds to rejoin, even for a small moment, to beat that new threat.
At the very end, whether Zack and Aerith survive through this trick is up to the devs. I think the introduction of a new Sephiroth whi most probably comes from the far future warrants that this side of the story can change. But we still have to go through Aerith’s death. And if Aerith survives, so does Zack. They will both end up probably dead or alive together.
I’m very aware that is is 99.99% unlikely, that there are probable plot holes everywhere but I like to play with this theory because it expands on the idea of life and death and the Lifestream and how Sephiroth tries to manipulate it, how Aerith must counter him etc. This seems to fit what they have added anyway.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
I'm not surprised. Wutai takes pretty long in the OG, and the Remake has been making it pretty clear the Wutai conflict is a lot bigger and more wide-spread than in the OG. I've been banking on it in fact.
This still leaves a very large chunck of content to get through even before Wuati though...
This still leaves a very large chunck of content to get through even before Wuati though...