SPOILERS FFVII Remake Open Spoiler Discussion Thread

[OWA-2]

Spoiler: Major Ending spoilers

Sephy is no longer after the planets power, but after avoiding returning to the cosmos one day and thinks you should join him.

It's stuff like this, and the whole thing about fate, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It seems they are changing too many important plot points, that shouldn't be changed.

 

[dunkindonato]

It's stuff like this, and the whole thing about fate, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It seems they are changing too many important plot points, that shouldn't be changed.

It can be argued that since this is just the first game of the Remake project, that the story isn't over and that they're bound to shatter our sanities and expectations and make us ask so many questions so that we'll want to see the next ones for the answers.

 

[Noble0ne]

Ehemm* Daym Daym Daym Daymmm.... This is not the same same game no more...

Tifa's fighting with shortcuts is just epic.

The way all characters learn moves permanently from mastering weapons is sick.

The new materia additions is great to use of the materia system to customize your fight style.

The fighting once you learn how to use the shortcuts for attacks alongside the menu for items gets stupid bonkers!

The side mission are fetchy, but you can tell it is meant to be more instructive on how to do new things than it is purposeless. And they implement a return directly to the quest giver option upon completion. So no mindless jogging.

You actually get to fight the clone spirit thingys... That was craaaaaaazy XD

Ima holds what I can in but dang the game gets tuffer around ch4 once you get the full cloud, tiff, barret, squad for sure.

I think the Summons came too soon but still glad that they can't be used all the time. Hopefully, smaller summons can be used in smaller spaces.

I wish you could jump and could break boxes more fluid, but not even mad coz this game gots me sold.

ch18...*facpalm*

Started from excitement now we here...

 

[pollenainne]

I really don't think there was anything conclusive about the ending sequences and I feel like people are taking it way out of proportion. Although, the game developers probably did that on purpose so they do. sigh~ But the way I see it, so far what has been done is to make old players think they might be able to forge a different future than the OG. However, I have a feeling the answer is, you cannot.

 

[Eerie]

Especially with Sephiroth's line saying the future does not exist yet (and Cloud's vision about Aerith's death) hahaha, I feel they are playing with old players hard. :')

 

[dunkindonato]

Especially with Sephiroth's line saying the future does not exist yet (and Cloud's vision about Aerith's death) hahaha, I feel they are playing with old players hard. :')

Yeah. They're definitely not going to make a clean ending because the adventure is literally just starting.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Because there is more to talk about than the controversial possibilities presented by the ending or whether the Compilation Buster Sword's crossguard is under the box with rivets, let me ask you folks this:

How do you feel about the remake basically giving everything away about Cloud and Sephiroth so early?

- We already know at this point that Cloud killed Seph in the past (Seph confirms it in their very first exchange)
- We already know Seph is obsessed with Cloud and doing a lot of this because he harbors a grudge against him for killing him
- We already know about Zack: that he was Aerith's boyfriend; that the Buster Sword previously belonged to him; and that he and Cloud were friends

All that's left unsaid right now (but still pretty heavily implied, I would say) is that Cloud never made it into SOLDIER, and that Zack is dead.

These are pretty drastic changes to the manner in which the story unfolded. I'm not sure how I feel about it all yet.

I'm sure the revelation about Cloud taking out Seph as a grunt can still be properly epic. So long as that is maintained, the rest can probably be overlooked, for me at least.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Because there is more to talk about than the controversial possibilities presented by the ending or whether the Compilation Buster Sword's crossguard is under the box with rivets, let me ask you folks this:

How do you feel about the remake basically giving everything away about Cloud and Sephiroth so early?

- We already know at this point that Cloud killed Seph in the past (Seph confirms it in their very first exchange)
- We already know Seph is obsessed with Cloud and doing a lot of this because he harbors a grudge against him for killing him
- We already know about Zack: that he was Aerith's boyfriend; that the Buster Sword previously belonged to him; and that he and Cloud were friends

All that's left unsaid right now (but still pretty heavily implied, I would say) is that Cloud never made it into SOLDIER, and that Zack is dead.

These are pretty drastic changes to the manner in which the story unfolded. I'm not sure how I feel about it all yet.

I'm sure the revelation about Cloud taking out Seph as a grunt can still be properly epic. So long as that is maintained, the rest can probably be overlooked, for me at least.

It depends on what direction they take the psychological angst. The unraveling of Cloud's identity and image as a SOLDIER can still be depicted and thoroughly examined. Yes, they're giving away more hints to the truth yet the portrayal of Cloud's fragile ego and it's collision with reality is still amazingly showcased. The way this is framed around his personal interactions with the main characters is pretty cool, it still will carry the dramatic punch when it finally comes tumbling down.

 

[Noble0ne]

Because there is more to talk about than the controversial possibilities presented by the ending or whether the Compilation Buster Sword's crossguard is under the box with rivets, let me ask you folks this:

How do you feel about the remake basically giving everything away about Cloud and Sephiroth so early?

- We already know at this point that Cloud killed Seph in the past (Seph confirms it in their very first exchange)
- We already know Seph is obsessed with Cloud and doing a lot of this because he harbors a grudge against him for killing him
- We already know about Zack: that he was Aerith's boyfriend; that the Buster Sword previously belonged to him; and that he and Cloud were friends

All that's left unsaid right now (but still pretty heavily implied, I would say) is that Cloud never made it into SOLDIER, and that Zack is dead.

These are pretty drastic changes to the manner in which the story unfolded. I'm not sure how I feel about it all yet.

I'm sure the revelation about Cloud taking out Seph as a grunt can still be properly epic. So long as that is maintained, the rest can probably be overlooked, for me at least.

Spoiler: Theory Posts

I know these are posted in the CH18 spoiler thread already. But it covers more than just the end so reposting here.

Spoiler: Fact Notes - HENRCAST, post

[

There has been a lot of stuff in this thread, so I think it might be useful to recap all we know for sure so far:

- The biggest new thing in the remake are the Whispers. They are described as "arbiters of fate" (Barret), "voices of the planet (...) those born into this world. Who live and who died. Who returned. They're howling in pain" (Aerith), and as "entities from a future timeline that fight to protect that future that gave shape to them" (Bestiary);

- They intercede whenever events threaten to deviate from the OG. It doesn't matter who causes the deviation (Cloud when he almost kills Reno, Hojo when he almost tells Cloud about his past, Sephiroth when he kills Barret and so on). However, Aerith clearly states that they are howling in pain because of Sephiroth;

- Near the end of the game, a massive amount of Whispers comes together and forms the portal through which the party goes through. They arrive at an alternate version of Midgar. Things that happen there don't impact the "actual" Midgar (the whole city is destroyed in "alternate Midgar", but remains intact in the "actual one");

- Events happening within "alternate Midgar" are visible to people outside of it in multiple points in time (Zack sees what is going on from a distance, even though he is in the past). Thus, "alternate Midgar" might be a "singularity;"

- Inside "alternate Midgar", the party fights a massive monster created form an agglomeration of Whispers, as well as three smaller ones. The smaller ones fight with "a sword", a "bare hands", and "guns;"

- During the fight, they see a number of visions of events that happened in the OG but at a future point in relation to the remake (Meteorfall, Red XIII running through a deserted landscape, the moments before Aerith's death) and so on. They interpret those events negatively (saying things like “this can’t be our future,” “this would be the result of us failing today”).

- The party defeats the Whispers. However, what happens to the Whispers is unclear. We latter see Sephiroth controlling them (which he hadn’t done until then). This, in conjunction with the cutscene that plays right after the Whisper fight, have led some to interpret as Sephiroth having absorbed Whispers.

- Even after the party defeated the Whispers, Sephiroth still invites Cloud to join him in “defying fate”. Cloud refuses. In what is possibly the most cryptic scene so far, Sephiroth talks about the “edge of creation” and declares that Cloud has “7 seconds until the end”;

- After the talk with Sephiroth, the party finds themselves outside of “actual Midgar” (which remains undestroyed) and leave to pursue Sephiroth.

Now, I’m not quite sure how to interpret this, but I’ll give it a try.

It seems to me that the three Whispers at the end (who fight with a sword, bare hands and guns) might be Cloud, Tifa and Barret from a future timeline. Like the other Whispers, they have already “died and returned”. Going from the visions the party had, they come from a future where a sequence of events like that of the OG has already happened. Aerith and Red XIII might not be among the Whispers because their future selves are respectively in the Lifestream and alive.

Sephiroth is acting to stop the chain of events that the Whispers are trying to maintain. This implies that he has somehow acquired knowledge that the actions of the Whispers are against his best interests. The party, however, sees only specific glimpses of the future – all of which, lacking context, look terrible (a meteor falling, Midgar abandoned, Aerith about to die). Thus, they misinterpret this future as bad, and act against fate (as Aerith put it, “the future is always a blank page”).

I think that, in the end, Sephiroth got what he wanted from that confrontation. The party defeated the Whispers, and Sephy is later seen (possibly) absorbing and (definitively) controlling them. I don’t think he was thwarted at all, since he appeared to be in control the entire time. But I’m not sure that Sephy got all he needs. Otherwise, it wouldn’t make sense for him to ask Cloud for help in defying destiny. In other words, taming the Whispers might be a necessary, but still insufficient, condition in achieving his plans.

Now, I have no clue where the devs are going with this, and whether it implies that they won’t follow the OG anymore. We’ll probably just have to wait for an interview to shed light on that. I also have no idea what the deal with the “7 seconds” thing was.

Spoiler: FFX Connection - Wol, post

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU-rOapWAAAZOaQ?format=jpg&name=large

and now the connection between FFX and FFVII is reconfirmed... madmans

Spoiler: Non Time Theory - Elisa Maza, post

Oh, what's this? A theory about the ending and the whole Remake project before even the first game is released?

Well, don't mind if I do.

Spoiler

I'm still going to maintain the belief that Remake is actually the memories of Cloud and co., who are now dead (simply because of old age) entering the Lifestream and pouring their memories in it; Remake = Memories of the OG that the characters have. The OG has become the Planet’s memory with their passing.

That explains the small differences from the OG. Our minds embellish and forget. We never remember the things exactly as they happened. The Remake having some minor differences is the characters remembering the OG actions slightly wrongly. Take the flower, for example. In the OG, you have the option not to take it; here you take it no matter what. You had the option who to give it to; here Cloud gives it to Tifa and it suddenly means Lovers’ Reunion. The OG is the real deal; the Remake is how one character (possibly Cloud himself?) remembers it. That doesn’t harm the Lifestream flow; it’s natural we forget details of the past as we go. It’s the big events, the skeleton, the outline that remains.

This helps with the Remake and the OG co-existing, not deleting each other and allowing SE to get money from both; they’re not replacing anything, that’d be financial stupidity and harm.

The bigger differences exist because Sephiroth is messing with the Lifestream itself, since he continues to linger in it. Now that the characters’ memories have entered the Lifestream and “no one’s dead if we remember them” well, of course when entering the land of the dead, the Lifestream, Sephiroth will be powerful. He’s remembered very strongly by the characters and the Meteor he summoned is remembered by all. It burns eternal in our hearts. Not just as himself, but the memory of him is now in the Lifestream, adding to his power. Especially from Cloud’s memories. Adding the JENOVA cells that cannot be dissolved since they’re the alien element and you get Sephiroth in the Remake.

With all this power coming to him, Sephiroth is able to fulfill his words in ACC: he will never be just a memory. He’ll mess up with the memories of the OG characters. Messing up with the characters means messing up with the Lifestream and its natural flow. And messing up with the natural flow of the Lifestream… well, it kills the Planet. Sephiroth wants to enter the cycle while also keeping his personality intact and he has found his “home” in Cloud and co.’s memories of him. He messes up and touches everything while also being untouched by them, looking for the beginning of creation, the source of the Lifestream, in order to harm it. Harming it will kill the Planet and allow him and JENOVA to use it to travel into the cosmos to invade other planets.

But, Aerith exists as long Sephiroth exists. They’re Yin and Yang, Black and White. She’s a native of the Planet, so she follows the cycle and she has an… expiration date, let’s call it. She’s weakening, but still existing. She realized what Sephiroth’s plan is and sent her friends’ remnants of spirits to try and put things back as they were, fix the BIG alteration of the memories. They’re the whispers, the people from after the events of the OG, maybe even the versions of the OG characters who went on to live. They fight to remain versions of themselves that happened after the OG. If the memory of the Planet about them changes too much, they will die. Not just dissolve into the Lifestream; they’ll disappear. They’re Aerith’s allies, the ones who understand what her death and all the OG events lead up to; a living Planet, a happy ending, a life going on.

Sephiroth hates them, but he has realized that he can use them. He fools Remake!Cloud to get rid of them in order to alter their “fate”. He’s not lying; he’s telling Cloud the truth. He can alter the memories too much by getting rid of the Whispers, the ones who correct the bigger changes. He just calls it “destiny” instead of “memory”. But Remake!Cloud is a memory himself, he’s Cloud as he remembers himself in the OG and he’s completely unaware of it. All he sees is the people he cares for dying, being in danger… he’s unaware that they HAVE to die in order for the cycle to continue, for life to go on. He’s unaware of his happy ending. All he sees around him is death and suffering (the OG was NOT a happy little story, wasn’t it?) and those whispers sometimes adding to it. So, that young, unwise, trigger-happy Cloud attacks what Aerith sent to help and gets rid of them. Did he kill a version of himself? Did he kill ACC Tifa in that final battle? Probably.

And then, Sephiroth gets powerful. So powerful that he steals Aerith’s Whispers and uses them, in order for Remake!Cloud to get rid of them. And he’s successful. “The future is not yet written.” Finally, he’s free of the Whispers and he can alter the memories as much as he wants. Alter them enough for everyone to want Aerith to live. After all, nobody in the Remake world wants Aerith dead, right? That’s a bad thing that happens. They’re unaware that her death leads to the Lifestream defeating Meteor and allowing life to continue.

That’s when dream!Aerith enters. She comes to Remake!Cloud and talks to him and all her words are of the one who knows the truth: you made me happy, don’t fall in love with me; it’s fake. It’s essentially “Thanks for remembering me fondly, but I have to die. Don’t get too attached to this version of myself, because if you change my death in your memories and start truly believing that I lived, things will get distorted too much and the distortion will spread.” Remake!Aerith says that whenever the Whispers touch her, she loses a part of herself. It’s because she’s fading herself; she’s a Cetra, but she IS of the Planet and the cycle caught her, too. She cannot be ACC Aerith; knowledgeable and wise. She’s far too gone for that. And she has to play her part and not alter the memories too much herself, otherwise the same harm will come. So, we got Remake!Aerith. A mixture of ACC Aerith and OG Aerith, or at least, as Cloud and co. remember OG Aerith.

Yes, there are a LOT of faults in this theory. But I’m sticking to it, because I haaaaate time travel and paradoxes and different realities.

At least this way, there’s no sudden new element that we’ve never heard of before entering the lore; aka time travel. There’s only the Lifestream and memories; something that were already there from the OG. This way, we also have the final battle against Sephiroth. Fucker continues to mess up with the Planet for only after his death, but after everybody else’s death. By defeating him and JENOVA in death, that’s it. The story ends. We can have Nanaki and his cubs 500 years later, without any concerns, as the absolute finale of the Compilation.

Cheers.

Spoiler: Time Jumping Sephiroth Theory

Spoiler: I used other ppl's post for help, sorry

I took the theories floating around that match what I think for the most part... Except, I assumed the ghost are still alive (just thwarted). And I made a mash up. I know it's me searching for people who agree, but they worded it better and more fact accurate than I would have... so it helped

...

Sephiroth after the events of Advent Children has found a way to time travel to the past.
He time travels to Midgar just after the first mako reactor explosion. He meets Cloud in the back alley (which doesn't happen in the original FF7) and talks to him.

After Sephiroth talks to Cloud it alters the timeline so the guardians of destiny, the Whispers, show up to try and restore order and not let the past change due to Sephiroth's intervention.

As Cloud was delayed by TT (time travel) Sephiroth in the alley he would have missed running into Aerith thus changing the timeline forever, so the Whispers show up and keep Aerith in place so they can still both meet.

Throughout the rest of the game TT Sephiroth makes appearances, and whenever these appearances alter how the characters would act the Whispers intervene to keep everything on track with destiny (the original FF7 storyline). The 'keepers of fate' show up at pivotal moments in the storyline to prevent changes from happening to the story.

The intervention after letting Cloud meet Aerith continues, She doesnt leave immediately after cloud tells her to go, and as a result, the shinra troops find cloud while aerith Is still present. Its at this point that the keepers show up and scare aeris away. Odd, right?

Next scene with the keepers is in the slums. Cloud wasn't going to go on the 2nd bombing mission. It was a way to make him go. They attack in the Sector 7 Slums to injure Jessie so she doesnt go to the Sector 5 Reactor forcing Cloud to go.

After that, the next time we see them is in the church after cloud defeats reno. Cloud is about to kill reno and the keepers show up and drag him and aeris away to the back room. In the back room, the wispers proceed to show Cload and Airith the direction they escaped in the OG. Aerith almost falls down from the upper area on there way out but, the wispers save her from falling and being captured by Reno and his guards.

In Shinra HQ the wispers show up and just take away Wedge who had survived his fall off of the column support beam tower, & then he had survived the plate drop on sector 7.

1 more example is hojo is about to reveal to cloud and company that he was never in soldier, then he is taken away by the keepers.

In the original FF7 Palmer doesn't see Sephiroth/Jenova until he kills President Shinra. In this one he sees TT Sephiroth in the hallway which alters the course causing President Shinra to not be found already dead by Cloud and co and with Palmer hiding to witness it all. This time Jenova (or TT Sephiroth) kills President Shinra AND Barret, however the Whispers intervene to keep Barrett alive, & to keep their destiny on track as per the original FF7 storyline.

Eventually they make it to the end of the Midgar expressway where they would normally leave Midgar, however TT Sephiroth shows up to have Cloud and co defeat destiny. Cloud and co fight destiny and have flashforwards of what will happen if they do not defeat destiny (the original FF7 timeline).

They eventually defeat the destiny ghost allowing them to forge a new future where TT Sephiroth is in their timeline from the future. From here on out anything can happen. Airith speaks to the group on the endless possibility's that awaits them on the other side. that "beyond the portal lies freedom, and that if they win and defeat Seph they might change even themselves” ...(I see square doing some conditioning here)

TT Sephiroth then brings Cloud to the Edge of Creation and seems to be trying to help him. He tells him that now destiny has been defeated "That which lies ahead...does not yet exist" meaning he is now unsure of how the future will unfold.

TT Sephiroth then looks towards the edge of creation saying "Our world will become a part of it...one day." followed by "nor will I have you end." insinuating that he wants to keep Cloud alive. He then asks Cloud to help him "defy destiny together". Cloud refuses and he is sent back to Midgar. Sephy mentions with the fates defeated he we have no idea what the future hides ...(I see square doing some conditioning here)

At this point, id like you to acknowledge that events are playing out differently to the original. Cloud never went to the cosmos edge before, and if the keepers were not there to stop said story events from transpiring, the story would change dramatically. The puprose of the watchers is to keep the events of ff7 in line with the original.
The ending reveals that sephiroth, and to a lesser extent Aerith, are aware of this. Sephiroth knows that he loses in the end if the keepers continue to preserve the events of this ff7 timeline, so he manipulated Cloud and company to fight them.

After Sephiroth sends cloud back to Midgar from the cosmos edge. they fight an advent children style sephiroth(???)

With the keepers dead, and the skies becoming clear, its Insinuated that because they no longer exist, the original timeline and events of ff7 are not going to happen as they did in the original. The ff7 you have been playing was either never was the one you thought it was, and only happened the way it did because the keepers tried to keep events the same, or that the OG was/is a overarching past to this alternative time line. Now they (the Wispers) are dead and going forward from here means anything can happen.

The next game may not even be FF7 remake now... It could be FF7 Rebirth

I think this was the whole point of letting old players know that anything could happen. It just was such a convoluted way to do so.

As for Zack, it's possible Sephiroth helped him defeat the soldiers without him realizing it. The Whispers then surrounded Midgar to stop Zack from going there and changing destiny.
However when Cloud defeats destiny in the not so far future it destroys the whispers stopping Zack going home and allows him to live. I don't know they are a lot of holes in this theory.

I could be completely wrong but this is how I best interpreted the events.

Pot holes I know... Why not TTsephy go and kill cloud as a kid... A million more plot holes... I chock it to the fault of off the wall writing attempt.

Spoiler: Future Aerith Theory - Pizzachu, post

I've come across some fun discussion about if Aerith is actually from the future:

Spoiler: A lot of text, so I'm putting it under here

"So did anyone consider that Aerith is from the future?
AC established that Aerith can do what Sephiroth can do. Sephiroth created avatars to interact with Cloud in AC (Kadaj and so on) and in Case of Lifestream, Aerith said she can do that too but chose not to.
If Sephiroth really came from the future it's possible Aerith went back too. So her consciousness is in the past Alt timeline Aerith's consciousness. But then she'd know that the Time Janitors are there to keep everything the same. So she's not really any better than Sephiroth - she also wants a second chance. Except she wants a second chance at a happy ending even if it means the planet might not survive this new timeline....
I'm saying this because of the scene Aerith picks up Marlene from the bar. Marlene seems to have some kind of vision and Aerith puts her finger to her lips to say 'don't say anything'. Like don't spill the beans. So she definitely knows what her fate will be and she's willing to risk the planet's eventual happy ending so she can have a chance to live again..." -- ShawnandAngela

"As someone who has read the script I’ve been thinking this theory for months and just waiting for someone else to bring it up. Yes, I 100% believe the Aerith we see in the remake is one who has chased/followed Sephiroth from the future and is there to stop him in every sense of the word.
There are other scenes that imply it, too. Like, when Aerith asks Cloud to be her bodyguard she says something like, “It’s not too different from being a mercenary.” Except.... he didn’t say a word about being a mercenary. She realizes she’s slipped up and goes, “uh... I guessed! From the sword!” There’s another moment where Cloud tells her to stop acting like she knows him but.... my theory is: she DOES know him!!
There’s other hints too. Lots of them.
Edit: my only thing is—I don’t think she’s there to get a happy ending. I think she’s fully prepared to die again." -- Ribunn

"I feel her looking for a second chance at happiness would be inconsistent with the part where she says Cloud can't fall in love with her. Too much uncertainty at this stage to be sure I guess, but interesting theory nonetheless.
Also LOL at Time Janitors" -- Calaroth

"I actually do believe Aerith is from the future and she’s Sephiroth’s foil. I don’t believe she is doing this for a second chance. There’s a scene, when after they fall into the sewers, Tifa says she can’t believe they would ever really drop the plate but if it will happen they need to stop them. Aerith hesitates, as if she knows they cannot stop that from happening because things need to play out as they should in order for Sephiroth to lose this battle. Tifa immediately picks up on the fact that Aerith is hiding something and says, 'Aerith... what aren’t you telling me?'" -- Ribunn

I think the Remake is done... All in one game!

Considering my Theory post... I'd say the next game will be like Final Fantasy VII Rebirth not remake...

A sequel to remake...

I think them cramming so much information was intentional... Crazy pacing hard to swallow but intentional

Edit* what if they make FF7 world like a never ending star wars franchise... :/ the skywalker saga is over now the new Disney saga is free to be

 

[Pizzachu]

Because there is more to talk about than the controversial possibilities presented by the ending or whether the Compilation Buster Sword's crossguard is under the box with rivets, let me ask you folks this:

How do you feel about the remake basically giving everything away about Cloud and Sephiroth so early?

- We already know at this point that Cloud killed Seph in the past (Seph confirms it in their very first exchange)
- We already know Seph is obsessed with Cloud and doing a lot of this because he harbors a grudge against him for killing him
- We already know about Zack: that he was Aerith's boyfriend; that the Buster Sword previously belonged to him; and that he and Cloud were friends

All that's left unsaid right now (but still pretty heavily implied, I would say) is that Cloud never made it into SOLDIER, and that Zack is dead.

These are pretty drastic changes to the manner in which the story unfolded. I'm not sure how I feel about it all yet.

I'm sure the revelation about Cloud taking out Seph as a grunt can still be properly epic. So long as that is maintained, the rest can probably be overlooked, for me at least.

It makes me wonder what story elements will be added in the next game. They've already shown their hand quite a bit, so hopefully there will be something that will be in there that knocks our socks off.

 

[OWA-2]

Because there is more to talk about than the controversial possibilities presented by the ending or whether the Compilation Buster Sword's crossguard is under the box with rivets, let me ask you folks this:

How do you feel about the remake basically giving everything away about Cloud and Sephiroth so early?

- We already know at this point that Cloud killed Seph in the past (Seph confirms it in their very first exchange)
- We already know Seph is obsessed with Cloud and doing a lot of this because he harbors a grudge against him for killing him
- We already know about Zack: that he was Aerith's boyfriend; that the Buster Sword previously belonged to him; and that he and Cloud were friends

All that's left unsaid right now (but still pretty heavily implied, I would say) is that Cloud never made it into SOLDIER, and that Zack is dead.

These are pretty drastic changes to the manner in which the story unfolded. I'm not sure how I feel about it all yet.

I'm sure the revelation about Cloud taking out Seph as a grunt can still be properly epic. So long as that is maintained, the rest can probably be overlooked, for me at least.

That's another thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and honestly scares me. It's like Square-Enix wants to create a completely different story, with new(and nonsensical) plot twists, so they used the first game of this project, to get all the ones we know out of the way first. "Okay, now that we revealed all the plot twists of the original, we aren't tied to them anymore, so let's go nuts! DEfiYng FatE! TimE TravEL!!1".

 

[Makoeyes987]

....I mean, they don't have to necessarily swing that hard at all, and I don't think they will.

While the Remake's ending is wild, and a major, unexpected departure from what we expected going into the Remake, let's not be confused or blinded by our surprise. Play what is there, and see the story as it progresses.

The Remake of FFVII has near perfectly captured the look, feel, and important events that make up the plot of the FFVII's story. The writers accomplished that feat with flying colors. The writers only 'colored outside the lines' in reference to the ending of the game. An ending that allows the game to stand alone as it's own unique story, resolve it's unique self-contained plot, and allow the Remake games the space to do changes within the overall plot that leave enough ambiguity and uncertainty to what comes next while still staying true to the OG.

It's new and unforeseen but so was this entire game. I have no reason to think they're gonna suddenly abandon the OG when they've stayed true to it so well, so far. It's all just newness. And I think the possible reason behind this new plot thread is highly intriguing and interesting, given the context and situation surrounding it.

 

[OWA-2]

Something that baffles me(from the little I have seen, admittedly), is that it looks like they are changing the overal message of the story. FFVII was about nature and the ecosystem, about a planet slowly dying, and your party trying to save it. But now, it seems all these concepts(even though they are still there) are being put to the wayside, to foccus on a plot about changing destiny. What, the, fuck? Since when was FFVII about that??

It's all so weird! I mean, there is so much love put in this game, but at the same time, it feels like the developers didn't really care about the story, wishing to do a completely different game.

 

[oty]

In all honesty, I think the main theme of FFVII is dealing with life, with the unexpected. Thats what the Lifestream is all about, people come and go and its part of a cycle that we need to deal.

Then again....this is their Remake. Their Reimagining. You can argue that dealing with fate is less interesting than dealing with reality/nature, but they wanted to change it and well....what can we do, right? It is what it is.

 

[Noble0ne]

Aerith legit says that beyond the portal lies freedom, and that if they win and defeat Seph they might change even themselves...

Reason 1 things could change.

Sephiroth says he has no idea what the future holds

Reason 2 things can change

The fates got defeated... &, big big &, redXIII at shinra HQ100% saw the pre existing 500 years later ending in the groups flash forward, then states this is the ending (one we already had known) that will be our fate if we Dont defeated the fates... Errrmmm we defeted the fates... So the existing ending should be gone...

Reason 3 & 4 things can change.

Yet people are saying the can see no reason square might change things... Really... None!? None whatsoever... Nothing... Hmmm...

Maybe they are just warming us and conditioning us to then have no surprises at all with the next release, then release a interview saying "we gotcha didn't we, Told ya will stay true"

But right now, with that ch18 ending... the train right now is floating off the tracks... It can still land on track, but in my opinion, the train is seriously floating Off the tracks... Look at the FF7 anxiety pandemonium before release date... That takes a very special set of skills

 

[Kratos]

It's more they've said they're keeping all the major plot points intact, so people reckon we'll get the same story with some wonky side complications on the way (which technically holds true for this installment, insanity and all).

 

[pollenainne]

I really don't blame people for getting creative with this. They really left a lot of things that can be interpreted in multiple ways. I myself as I progressed through the story assumed the wildest scenarios, starting from when Cloud saw Aerith's materia falling. And I was like omg omg omg. Every difference in the plot spurred me to new heights of possibilities.

But after seeing the end and sleeping on it, I realized I was way in over my head. I discussed everything with my brother who never played the original and got a really good perspective.

Only old players are going nuts over this. New players who never had any idea about the OG don't actually think that time travel or multiple timelines is answer. And the game is made for both old and new players. I know for sure I was reading too much into things. I think we just need to breathe and think it over. Changes will be inevitable. Yes reveals were made early because even new players will discuss the story with us now and will just be spoiled anyway, so it makes perfect sense.

The possibilities are still there sure, and I am not saying it is 100% not going to become a convoluted mess. But maybe, if you are feeling apprehensive about the next part, you might want to step back a little and think... maybe I am reading too much into this. lol

 

[OWA-2]

I have no problems with changes, as long as they are consistent with previously established lore. For example, I wouldn't mind if the Keepers were corrupted souls of the Lifestream, or even Ancients... But time travelers?? Are you serious?! This is like adding an alien invasion to a remake of God of War!
And now this looks like a sequel, where Sephiroth travelled back in time to change things, and the Keepers are trying to stop him. So Square-Enix, is this a remake or a sequel?

Sorry, but this nonsensical change(that seems to be overshadowing even the themes of the original game), completely ruined the experience for me. I feel like I'm reading fanfiction. Like the developers thought: "Yeah, the story of FFVII was cool, whatever, nobody really cares anymore... N0W L00K At tHIs NeW C0NcepT ThaT I P1CKed fr0m MY AsS! It'S MUcH BETTer, IsN'T IT? WE Sh0uLD F0CcuS 0N THat!"

 

[Gidian87]

Hi there trying to 100 percent complete this game here in the uk. Stuck on a side mission called the power of music. Now I genuinely don’t have any idea how to get past this. I have all the music I think apart from number 5. Wtf do I have to do to get this side quest ffs? Help would be genuinely appreciated

 

[Kratos]

I have no problems with changes, as long as they are consistent with previously established lore. For example, I wouldn't mind if the Keepers were corrupted souls of the Lifestream, or even Ancients... But time travelers?? Are you serious?! This is like adding an alien invasion to a remake of God of War!
And now this looks like a sequel, where Sephiroth travelled back in time to change things, and the Keepers are trying to stop him. So Square-Enix, is this a remake or a sequel?

Let's not jump to conclusions, here. The game offers very little in the way of definitive answers, and those are all assumptions that were made by filling in some very big gaps.

At no point does the game introduce a time travelling Sephiroth and ask us to accept it. It presents a situation where Sephiroth shows glimpses of certain future events. There's a rather in--depth discussion about the numerous potential implications of that over in the Chapter 18 discussion thread, but suffice to say, the one you're talking about is far from the definitive answer.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I have no problems with changes, as long as they are consistent with previously established lore. For example, I wouldn't mind if the Keepers were corrupted souls of the Lifestream, or even Ancients... But time travelers?? Are you serious?! This is like adding an alien invasion to a remake of God of War!

Or adding time travel to "God of War."

Oh, wait, they did that shit. =\

 

[OWA-2]

Or adding time travel to "God of War."

Oh, wait, they did that shit. =\

Not really. Time travel makes sense, since it's in the lore/mythology, with beings like Chronos existing in that world. Not aliens though. Aliens are completely removed from the lore and thematic of the story(a world of mythological beings).

Another good example is the last(crappy) Metal Gear, released by Konami, where the characters are sucked into an alternate dimension full of demons.

And now FFVII Remake with fucking time travel!

 

[Makoeyes987]

And then you're gonna learn Jenova was more than just an alien, but a space eldritch abomination of unfathomable age, who's continued existed sis thanks to it's Reunion instinct working not only within the present, but across time-space with its memories as well...

 

[oty]

Not really. Time travel makes sense, since it's in the lore/mythology, with beings like Chronos existing in that world. Not aliens though. Aliens are completely removed from the lore and thematic of the story(a world of mythological beings).

Another good example is the last(crappy) Metal Gear, released by Konami, where the characters are sucked into an alternate dimension full of demons.

And now FFVII Remake with fucking time travel!

Ok, now I gotta enter. MGSV may have a shitty story, but the gameplay was so fined, so tuned, and so damn well made, there hasnt been one single stealth game that ever came close to the complexity of MSGV. If that's "crappy", then I guess 90% of games should go straight to the trash can.

 

[Pizzachu]

I think they might be talking about Metal Gear Survive.