Final Fantasy XIII Non-Spoiler Thread

[Tennyo]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-final-fantasy-xiii-face-off

Whelp, it looks like SE really did bork the port. I already knew it, but damn. Especially when it could have wound up looking just as good if not better than the PS3 version.

Looks like SE too the easy way out. Goddamn the quality difference in those movies is ridiculous. There are dozens of compression methods that wouldn't have compromised the quality so much.

I actually don't think the differences look like they are enough to matter. Sure, a few extra little bits flying here and there are gone, monsters in the background, and there's a teeny tiny reduction in quality, but really, it just seems like a bunch of nitpicking and butthurt to me.

 

[Strangelove]

For some reason I can never get their comparison images to work, and the videos play too sluggishly on my computer, but while a lot of it seems minor, the downgrade in the cutscenes is disappointing. I thought some of these scenes they were comparing were rendered in-game (the obviously not CGI ones). I don't think it'd necessarily ruin it, but it is a shame they didn't bother to keep the quality higher.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I actually don't think the differences look like they are enough to matter. Sure, a few extra little bits flying here and there are gone, monsters in the background, and there's a teeny tiny reduction in quality, but really, it just seems like a bunch of nitpicking and butthurt to me.

Are you seriously blind? Christ, be a fan of SE but face reality. Nitpicking or not, it's ridiculous how the 360 version got nerfed.

It's little shit like that, that pisses people off. If they're gonna pay full price for something, they should have full quality. How the hell is that "butthurt?" Quit calling valid criticism butthurt.

Considering the big fucking deal SE has made the graphics to be, this is a serious "WTF." Could they just not try and go above and beyond with something? Is that too much to ask?

 

[Strangelove]

ohshit

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's rarely a noticeable difference, truth be told. Honestly, if they didn't have the two versions labeled, I probably wouldn't know I was looking at the 360 version except in a few cases in those comparison shots.

It's really only when you've got an extreme long shot that you can see some blurriness that you wouldn't expect to be there.

Don't get me wrong, it's disappointing. Makes you wonder what the hell they've been doing the last few years, especially considering how they pushed the graphics at the expense of everything else this time around. Really makes you wonder what the fuck they were thinking, and where their priorities got to considering what their priorities were.

But as to how it will impact the player's experience, I'm thinking not very much. And that's probably what Tenny is thinking as well.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's rarely a noticeable difference, truth be told. Honestly, if they didn't have the two versions labeled, I probably wouldn't know I was looking at the 360 version except in a few cases in those comparison shots.

It's really only when you've got an extreme long shot that you can see some blurriness that you wouldn't expect to be there.

Don't get me wrong, it's disappointing. Makes you wonder what the hell they've been doing the last few years, especially considering how they pushed the graphics at the expense of everything else this time around. Really makes you wonder what the fuck they were thinking, and where their priorities got to.

But as to how it will impact the player's experience, I'm thinking not very much. And that's probably what Tenny was thinking as well.

God, thank you for at least acknowledging reality and not pulling a Vancome Lady.

Yes, it is disappointing for all the reasons you said. You would expect them to make this game an orgy of graphical superiority but Square-'Cut Corners'-Enix once again just hits "good enough."

Mediocrity ftw. The character designs and story really are the only damn things to look forward to.

 

[Bex]

I have a PS3.
I also have a 360.
I want FFXIII to look good.
But I want achievements moar.

 

[Max Payne]

I actually don't think the differences look like they are enough to matter. Sure, a few extra little bits flying here and there are gone, monsters in the background, and there's a teeny tiny reduction in quality, but really, it just seems like a bunch of nitpicking and butthurt to me.

Seriously? Even if you can ignore the in-game stuff, the prerendered cutscenes degenerate into garbage when shit's happening, and that's more'n a little ridiculous considering the game has an ASSLOAD of them.

It's not "nitpicking and butthurt" they analyzed the games and pointed out the difference. They do it for most multiplatform games. They're probably the most honest folk about this stuff.

 

[DLPB]

yeah you can tell the quality is lower on the 360 version....no doubt at all if that video is accurate (the pictures confirm it).

But that doesn't really bother me either way....what I was more stressed out with watching that was the mess of a battle system...all those numbers flying about isn't exactly well thought out is it

 

[ForceStealer]

I have a PS3.
I also have a 360.
I want FFXIII to look good.
But I want achievements moar.

Are they different from the trophy challenges on the ps3 version?

 

[Tennyo]

Seriously? Even if you can ignore the in-game stuff, the prerendered cutscenes degenerate into garbage when shit's happening, and that's more'n a little ridiculous considering the game has an ASSLOAD of them.

It's not "nitpicking and butthurt" they analyzed the games and pointed out the difference. They do it for most multiplatform games. They're probably the most honest folk about this stuff.

Can't tell, don't care. The game still looks amazing on the 360, the only reason everyone says it doesn't is because the PS3 looks better. Oops oh well. It's like, holy crap, can we find something even more insignificant to complain about?

Because I mean damn, FFXIII is now ruined. It won't be any fun at all. Now I'm going to go play some PS2 games and be contented with the graphics.

Are you seriously blind? Christ, be a fan of SE but face reality. Nitpicking or not, it's ridiculous how the 360 version got nerfed.

It's little shit like that, that pisses people off. If they're gonna pay full price for something, they should have full quality. How the hell is that "butthurt?" Quit calling valid criticism butthurt.

Considering the big fucking deal SE has made the graphics to be, this is a serious "WTF." Could they just not try and go above and beyond with something? Is that too much to ask?

Reality? The reality that people don't realize there's better things to worry about? Just buy the version that you think looks better. Because I mean honestly, the 360 version does NOT look bad. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the 360 just couldn't do what they wanted it to do? Or maybe it would have taken more time ? But you know, money is being spent and deadlines have to be met.

Graphics are nice but I won't give a damn about them if the rest of the game sucks, let me tell you. The story and the battle system are all that matter to me. I want a fun game more than I want a pretty game. Otherwise there are a lot of games I never would have played. FFVII being one of them (I didn't play it until after the PS2 came out, yay for outdated!)

 

[Max Payne]

Can't tell, don't care.

I don't see how you can't when the comparisons are pretty blatant. Of course you won't tell unless you're going to play the games side by side on both consoles or something. But still, there is a difference in quality and people deserve to know that.

The game still looks amazing on the 360

I don't think the game looks "amazing" at all to be honest. That's partly because I've played a lot of awesomely good looking games this generation and frankly, this game just isn't really that special in that regard. So yeah, it's not something I was gonna play for visuals in any case.

the only reason everyone says it doesn't is because the PS3 looks better.

Even in the comparison and the reviews they all state there's a significant downgrade in visuals, but they by no means say it looks terrible.

Oops oh well. It's like, holy crap, can we find something even more insignificant to complain about?

An unnecessary downgrade in visuals for 360 owners is by no means "insignificant". Nor is it really a dealbreaker. But it's something. There's nothing to get so defensive about. It is what it is. That will mean more to some than others.

Either way it is no cause for getting upset, especially if you're already set on it. Some of you folks are getting way too heated over this stuff.

Because I mean damn, FFXIII is now ruined. It won't be any fun at all. Now I'm going to go play some PS2 games and be contented with the graphics.

Seriously, chill. I never meant for people to overreact about me pointing out the differences in the ports. If you're going to get the game on 360, then get it on 360. There's no reason to blow your top over people saying it looks different.

This isn't really a case of OMG FFXIII SUCKS, so much as it is SE blew it on the port. It's not unplayable or anything, it's just a little ridiculous.

Just buy the version that you think looks better.

I'd say, buy the one for the console you have. If you have both consoles, well then I believe Bex has already pointed out one of the many scenarios you may find yourself in.

Because I mean honestly, the 360 version does NOT look bad.

No, just worse than the PS3s.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the 360 just couldn't do what they wanted it to do?

The console is more than capable of reproducing the same performance as the PS3 version, and possibly more.

Or maybe it would have taken more time ? But you know, money is being spent and deadlines have to be met.

This is where it comes down to the talent of the development team and those same time limitations. I myself think they spent so much time trying to nail PS3 development, that they sorta struggled with getting accustomed with the 360's hardware and development tools. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised about them rushing out as decent a port as they could because of time constraints. It's a very likely scenario.

 

[ForceStealer]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-hd-final-fantasy/62720

Gametrailers' review. I think this one does a very good job of impartiality, not glossing over flaws but also not afraid to give credit where credit is due.
I also liked that they pointed out that linearity is nothing new to JRPGs, much less Final Fantasy, and any nonlinearity is usually false.

 

[Makoeyes987]

So FFXIII isn't really that linear, its everything else that's linear. FFXIII is just being honest about it..?

The FFXII is a lie then, I guess. All those play hours are false.

 

[Bex]

Are they different from the trophy challenges on the ps3 version?

I don't like trophies, I don't get an awesome number.
The bigger my gamerscore, the more bitches and hoes i attract

 

[DrakeClawfang]

So FFXIII isn't really that linear

Mako, name a single Final Fantasy main series game that isn't totally linear for the first half of the game. Unless you go back to the original NES series, you can't. But the NES game's still weren't all that non-linear, they only seemed that way because of the bad or vague storytelling. You were rarely given clear directives in the first FF game as I recall, mostly you just wandered around looking for towns and caves and eventually talking to random NPCs would point you north, and you'd go north and hey, Kraken's lair! I didn't like it, it made the story feel disjointed and unevenly paced when the only way I knew what I was supposed to do next was because I was using walkthroughs.

FF has always guided the player in a straight line from one town to the next cave to the next town to the next factory/castle/tower/cave/whatever, as the plot dictates. FF6 was epic, but the game was fully linear up until the world of ruin, and FF7 was totally linear until the Huge Materia quest, which I may be wrong about. FF8, linear, FF9, linear....to a point. Eventually we get the airship and can go where we like, but it ultimately is still linear, just less linear, because the plot will still go the same way and we'll have to go to the same locations as before sooner or later. FF8, once I get Balamb Garden I know I still have to go to Trabia and then Balamb and then the orphanage. Maybe I don't want to, but I have to go where the plot says.

Oh sure, we get the big world map where we can roam free and go where we please...that doesn't mean the game isn't linear. FF6, I can go where I like, go through the South Figaro cave again if I like, wander the Figaro desert, doesn't mean a thing because in the end Terra isn't in any of those places, I know she's in Zozo and the plot says sooner or later I'm going to go there if I want to or not. And once I do the plot tells me to go to the opera house and get Setzer to take me to Vector. I don't get a say in the matter. Same with FF7, no matter how hard I wish I didn't have to I'm gonna go to the Temple of the Ancients, watch Cait Sith sacrifice himself, then Aerith runs off and I follow her to the Forgotten City and watch her die.

Final Fantasy only ever gave the illusion that it isn't a linear path. But it is, no matter how many times you play through the games, you're gonna end up visiting the same locations in the same order and listen to the same storyline be told the same way. A non-linear RPG is like Fallout, where you can go to any town any time you want and do any quest you want at your own pace, and the main plot of the game will wait patiently for you to do it when you want. If I don't want to take out the Raiders for Tandi, I don't have to, I can tell Tandi to go fuck herself and ride out into the wasteland. Final Fantasy, at least the main series, isn't like that. Some subquests are like that, very rarely, but the main plot? Nope.

Maybe the Ivalice or Crystal Bearer spin-offs have that, I don't know, but it sure isn't in the main series. You can drag your feet, do subquests and sidequests, but the main course from beginning of the main story to the end is the same as it was the last time you played the game. I'm replaying FFX and writing a walkthrough for it at the moment. As much as I don't want to, I know I'm going to have to sit through that stupid Blitzball tournament again, lose because I suck at it, watch Seymour and Auron show off, then I have to endure that horrible laughing scene that makes me want to cut off my ears. I don't like it. Too bad, it's how the game goes and I'm stuck with it.

So, FF13 dispenses with the illusions and gives you a literally linear path through the game. I don't like the sounds of it, I admit I like the illusions to an extent, but it doesn't bother me because I recognize the illusion of freedom in the games for what it is. To those of you who are bothered by the presence of a linear path through the game with no deviation from the course set to you by the plot, I say:

WELCOME TO FINAL FANTASY!

I also liked that they pointed out that linearity is nothing new to JRPGs, much less Final Fantasy, and any nonlinearity is usually false.

THANK YOU!

 

[DLPB]

Drakeclawfang, there is a big difference between "partly linear" and "totally linear"

FF13 isn't just "partly linear" it is 1 path for a lot of the game. No world map. No extra routes. Just 1 path, boss, cutscene, path.

That is a real criticism and it cannot be done away with by trying to suggest ANY of the other FF's were like it. They weren't. That is a fact.

This is the first FF that is just 1 relatively narrow path with no minigames, no backtracking, no nothing- except battle/cutscene. There really is no way to defend that or to argue against it or to make comparisons that simple are not there.

In FF7, you entered a world map after around 5-6 hours of gameplay (yes 5-6) and before that point, you were allowed to go BACK TO AREAS. You were allowed to explore shops, buildings and had a degree of freedom. In 13 you HAVE NO FREEDOM. ZERO.

In VII, VIII, IX, X you could explore villages anywhere on the world map at whim. You could return to every place in the game (barring the disc 4 area lock outs that were there simply because the discs were not large enough to fit the data needed)

In X, even though they did away with the traditional world map you could still explore every area and backtrack. There was no hand held walk through.

I don't mind fair criticism of the earlier games, but some of these desperate comparisons are laughable. The reason 13 has been panned more than any other FF I can remember is because people are getting fed up of what is going on with this franchise; questions are being asked. Quite simply, the reason this game is being criticised is because there is VALID CRITICISM. It isn't just fools making things up.

 

[Tetsujin]

barring the disc 4 area lock outs that were there simply because the discs were not large enough to fit the data needed

Eh, all PS1 FF game discs always contained the whole game. The only difference were the FMVs stored on the discs actually.

 

[DLPB]

Eh, all PS1 FF game discs always contained the whole game. The only difference were the FMVs stored on the discs actually.

No they did lock you out of some areas....on D4 of VIII you cannot get into deling for example (energy barriers surround it)...or most of the areas. In IX the areas are blocked off by roots.

But of course you could always stay on D3 for a time. You are right that FMV was the main cause, but they blocked off areas too (I don't know whether those areas were still actually on the discs, I assumed they weren't since they were restricted)....

 

[Tetsujin]

I don't think the lock-outs had anything to do with disc space though, considering the last discs had very little left in terms of story and no more FMVs than any other disc...

 

[DLPB]

I don't think the lock-outs had anything to do with disc space though, considering the last discs had very little left in terms of story and no more FMVs than any other disc...

ooo 8 and 9 had massive FMV at the end....I haven't checked the discs but there is a reason for those lock outs (remember VII and X didn't have them), what other reason could there be except to save space?

edit:

Qhimm:
Is there some part of my previous post not getting through here...? The towns are not locked for disc space reasons. All field files are stored on all discs, and disc4 actually has some extra scene data on it (which I haven't examined yet). The locked towns are more likely a result of development time cut short and/or not wanting to write extra dialogue for all people during time compression (ironically, adding the extra handling for disc 4 during time compression would make the field data larger, but the effect would be very marginal). Again, all discs contain an identical set of field data files, that is all script for all discs are stored on every disc.

It would appear you are correct It was more laziness than anything?

Well in any case my original point stands, barring those lockouts on 8 and 9, there was a lot of freedom to do what you wanted and you could stay on the earlier discs too. Could have been some early design idea that wasn't needed but they ended up keeping I suppose....just in case. I always thought of it as a disc space issue...but maybe it isn't after all

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Drakeclawfang, there is a big difference between "partly linear" and "totally linear"

FF13 isn't just "partly linear" it is 1 path for a lot of the game. No world map. No extra routes. Just 1 path, boss, cutscene, path.

So as I said, they just do away with the illusion part of the linear game. No problem for me.

That is a real criticism and it can be done away with by trying to suggest ANY of the other FF's were like it. They were. That is a fact.

Fixed that for ya.

This is the first FF that is just 1 relatively narrow path with no minigames, no backtracking, no nothing- except battle/cutscene. There really is no way to defend that or to argue against it or to make comparisons that simple are not there.

Except I've heard there are minigames and sidequests, and if there are such things there must be backtracking of some sort available.

In FF7, you entered a world map after around 5-6 hours of gameplay (yes 5-6) and before that point, you were allowed to go BACK TO AREAS.

In VII, VIII, IX, X you could explore villages anywhere on the world map at whim. You could return to every place in the game (barring the disc 4 area lock outs that were there simply because the discs were not large enough to fit the data needed)

In X, even though they did away with the traditional world map you could still explore every area and backtrack. There was no hand held walk through.

Go back to areas you had already visited and didn't need to go to again, yes that was part of the game, one I personally never got. I'm looking for Terra. Hypothetically speaking I can go through the Figaro Cave and back up Mt. Colts. I could do it, but it would be entirely pointless, the enemies are too weak to give worthwhile exp for grinding, I know there's no more extra items there, and if I go all the way back to the Returner Hideout I can visit a shop, whoop-dee-do. I'm apparently alone in this line of thought, but once I finish my business with a town in FF I move on. I don't kick back and take in the sights. The plot has moved on, so am I.

I have nothing to gain by dragging my feet re-exploring old towns and caves I've already been through and I know have nothing new to offer me. What's the point of re-treading worn ground if it won't get me anything? If there's a genuine reason to go back fine, but if I'm just going back because I happen to be given that option, I don't see the appeal. I've already done everything that can be done here, why should I go back, there's nothing for me to do here, I'm wasting time doing nothing when I could be making progress through the game.

I don't mind fair criticism of the earlier games, but some of these desperate comparisons are laughable. The reason 13 has been panned more than any other FF I can remember is because people are getting fed up of what is going on with this franchise; questions are being asked. Quite simply, the reason this game is being criticised is because there is VALID CRITICISM. It isn't just fools making things up.

Um, no. Let me list the REAL reasons so many people are bitching about FF13. Another little-known fact about Final Fantasy is the following all apply to the Final Fantasy fanbase:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuinedFOREVER
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBase
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitlezx89c5u5txaj?from=Main.ItIsTheSameNowItSucks
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContestedSequel

I could have told you the second it was announced people were going to hate Final Fantasy XIII, because the above has happens every time a new game in the series comes out. It didn't matter what FF13 was like, people were gonna bitch, just like they bitch about FF7 for being overrated, FF6 for shallow characters, FF4 for a shallow battle system, FF3 for no plot, FF9 for being cartoony, FF10 for...you get the idea.

 

[DLPB]

It has nothing to do with illusion. It is to do with "partly linear" and "totally linear". The word illusion suggests that we aren't actually seeing the truth. We are. The truth is FF13 is more linear than any other FF game. That is a fact. There is no opinion there. Illusion is a complete cop out word to try and get round the fact that there is a genuine criticism here.

Moving goal posts, bypassing arguments and changing my quotes won't wash, I am afraid. and there were always reasons to go back to areas:

1. New weapons and items
2. Part of the story
3. NPC discussions.
4. It makes the world MORE BELIEVABLE.

All of which 13 has decided to get rid of in the context of exploration.

The biggest criticism this game has had is its TOTALLY linear nature. Reviewers have panned it. Am I now to accept that this isn't true or that the criticisms are simply deluded or that I imagined these reviews? No. I don't think so...

There is a saying: There is no smoke without fire, and the game developers have admitted what we all know about its linear nature.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

1. New weapons and items

Really? Because when I'm in Jidoor on my way to look for Terra, something tells me if I go back to Nikeah they'll sell the same equipment they did last time I was there.

2. Part of the story

If the story demands I revisit a location, that doesn't make the game non-linear, I'm still going where the plot tells me to.

3. NPC discussions.

Never cared for that. Again I'm apparently alone in this but I don't spend my time chatting up random NPCs that rarely tell me anything of interest. I may do it now and then, but ultimately NPCs are little more than background furniture to me.

4. It makes the world MORE BELIEVABLE.

This is a game where humans are chosen by the spirits of magical Crystals to complete tasks or get turned into zombies, and they complete these tasks with the aid of elemental familiars bound to them by mystical tattoos the crystal spirits brand them with to show they are in their servitude.

Let's not discuss what makes the game believable and realistic please, kthx.

There is a saying: There is no smoke without fire, and the game developers have admitted what we all know about its linear nature.

Yes they have. I'm not saying FF13 is not linear. I'm saying this isn't big news to me because that's the way the series has always been, some people just don't realize it.

 

[DLPB]

Really? Because when I'm in Jidoor on my way to look for Terra, something tells me if I go back to Nikeah they'll sell the same equipment they did last time I was there.

No they often change equipment when you go back at a later part of the game. See VII, VIII, IX

If the story demands I revisit a location, that doesn't make the game non-linear, I'm still going where the plot tells me to.

Of course it does. Linear means IN A LINE. If you are exploring you are not travellng 1 path. You are being afforded A CHOICE. This is where accusations of "illusion" do not work. The plot is 1 thing, but you aren't FORCED to go there. You can backtrack and you can visit other places (like wutai in VII).

Never cared for that. Again I'm apparently alone in this but I don't spend my time chatting up random NPCs that rarely tell me anything of interest. I may do it now and then, but ultimately NPCs are little more than background furniture to me.

They make the game more believable and they add to the story.

Let's not discuss what makes the game believable and realistic please, kthx.

Ahh another one who doesn't understand what a story is about. This would be your issue...you see there is this thing called "Suspension of disbelief" when we engage in any fiction we allow for the world to shape its physics and its believability and its make up; having NPC adds to a story and makes it more "full" and more believable. I am sorry for you if you cannot grasp that basic premise, but that isn't my issue. It never ceases to surprise me how some people attack things they do not even understand.

Yes they have. I'm not saying FF13 is not linear. I'm saying this isn't big news to me because that's the way the series has always been, some people just don't realize it.

Again, the series has never been THIS LINEAR. 13 is a step too far. 13 is more linear than any other FF.