Final Fantasy XIII Spoiler Thread (SPOILERS)

[Masamune]

That was a very interesting read actually, thanks a lot. A lot of those are systemic problems that will need to be addressed, others, such as designing the engine simultaneously, can easily be avoided in the future. I think its a pretty good sign that at least Toriyama recognizes where things went wrong (and where things went right). I know XIII's quite the whipping boy, but considering there were problems as huge as the team didn't actually agree on a concept during development, and didn't have time to make adjustments based on player tests, the game turned pretty good.

O rly, Toriyama? I thought it was just us Westerners and our unsophisticated style of gaming that thought FFXIII sucked balls.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

O rly, Toriyama? I thought it was just us Westerners and our unsophisticated style of gaming that thought FFXIII sucked balls.

Oh snap.



Something that hito's latest translations highlight once again, though, is how the execution of the story failed. Like so much of the backstory, things like the nature of the left face on Orphan's Monolith form -- or the fact that the statue in the Narthex of Orphan's Cradle is supposed to be Lindzei -- should not have gone unexplained within the story itself.

The gravity of the things that the characters -- and, therefore, the player -- do go unrealized in FFXIII because we often just don't know what a big deal certain situations are.

How many other l'Cie had there been in Cocoon? What did these others choose to do? How long did they last? How far did they get?

This is so unlike FFX where the implications of defying the temples or of actually sending Sin crashing to the earth are immediately realized because of the thousand-year backstory we've become firmly entrenched in by then.

 

[ForceStealer]

I remember it being a fairly big deal that Dajh was a Cocoon l'Cie, that it either doesn't happen or hasn't in a long time. Or was that not what you meant?

But yeah, I agree. FF13 has a really cool world. Even when the story wasn't that interesting I thought the world was very cool. Having people to interact with on Pulse may have been nice, but I also liked the abandoned atmosphere. With the collapsed tower and ruined cities, etc. Some of the Cie'th Stone missions had some really sad setups as well (like the woman whose focus was to kill her husband that had become a Cie'th, so she refused to do it.)

I happily read the Datalog, it is a shame that was the only place to get that stuff. But at least it was an interesting world. I am very curious about how Versus will fit into it...

 

[Splintered]

What did these others choose to do?

I always figure all l'cie chose to wait to become monsters, kill themselves, or do as they say. I thought the entire point of the journey and what makes this team so much more important is that they actually tried to defeat their fate rather than give up. Like the way Cid Raines says that it was them that inspired to try to rebel. Or the cieth stones talk about resigning or attempting their ill fated focus. Vanille says something to this affect as well, that there was no hope- and Fang replies that who knows, maybe the reason there is no way out is because no one ever attempted to look for one.

Although I agree that there was a lot of the execution poorly done. I always like to compare to FFVIII, in terms of personal taste. I felt FFVIII had a lot of bad ideas brilliantly executed and FFXIII had a lot of brilliant ideas poorly executed (story wise). (And I still really like FFXIII and dislike VII : D)

Lindzei being one of them. In fact, the whole god mythology is something you really have to study FFXIII to understand, and even then you've got to wait for the Ultimania for the full details. I didn't even get there was another god Lindzei, until later. And I thought Hallowed Pulse was the same thing as Etros. But despite the fact that Lindzei was the god that sort of created Cucoon, it was Hallowed Pulse they were trying to summon back. But Cucoon was created to bring back Hallowed Pulse, so was Lindzei just fucking with their head, and if he wasn't why would he create Cucoon? And is Etros still around?

 

[ForceStealer]

...Who's Lindzei? The Maker?

always figure all l'cie chose to wait to become monsters, kill themselves, or do as they say. I thought the entire point of the journey and what makes this team so much more important is that they actually tried to defeat their fate rather than give up. Like the way Cid Raines says that it was them that inspired to try to rebel. Or the cieth stones talk about resigning or attempting their ill fated focus. Vanille says something to this affect as well, that there was no hope- and Fang replies that who knows, maybe the reason there is no way out is because no one ever attempted to look for one.

And when I say the game had an awesome world and an 'eh' story, this is what I mean. This is what frustrated me during the game.
There were several instances of this happening: Realizing they're being played, and then decide to defy the fate that's using them. And how do they do this? But doing the EXACT SAME THING they had been doing. I never understood it and they just kept doing it. If nothing's going to change, why do they keep bringing it up?

The first case I can remember are when Lightning and Hope come across Carbuncle. Something happens that makes Lightning realize they're being used and says she won't play into their hands. Do you change direction? Do you STOP killing things? ...nope, you keep going the same direction with the same goal yo had before the cutscene.

And the big one, of course, they are told many times throughout the game by Barthandelus that he wants them to kill Orphan. They refuse to be his pawns and, what do they do? Kill Orphan. Not through any trickery on Barthandelus' part, really (besides pretending to send the Cavalry to do it), the l'Cie just went down there and did exactly what he wanted. The only thing that was different was that they killed Orphan themselves without turning into Ragnarok...but it had the same effect...

...still bugs me. Am I missing some massive piece that makes all this make sense?

 

[Splintered]

...Who's Lindzei? The Maker?

There are three gods, Hallowed Pulse, which created Pulse, Etros- who is in Versus and the reason why l'cie can summon, and Lindzei. Everyone is kind of straight forward except for Lindzei, he's painted in the Analects as a "trickster god" but it's kind of hard to tell because everything written there is horribly biased.

He either made Cucoon and other fal'cie followed him, or he convinced Barthandelus to make Cucoon. I even read it in this thread once that some people believed he was Lindzei.

decide to defy the fate that's using them. And how do they do this? But doing the EXACT SAME THING they had been doing. I never understood it and they just kept doing it. If nothing's going to change, why do they keep bringing it up?

The only different was the position of wills. They still made Ragnarok, but Ragnarok wasn't created by fear and hatred like most l'cie would make it, it was created by hope (because lol jrpg) and therefore what they could do changed.

That and they didn't know killing Barthandelus signals Orphan. I figured that they just went to kill him and look for another solution. But ended up creating Orphan and since there was no way out, they were forced to kill it. Plus if they didn't get Barthandelus, he would just curse another l'cie to do what they are suppose to do, and they wanted to stop the cycle right there and bring down the Sanctum.

They also tried to find out what to do while their time in Pulse. Oerba, irrc, was suppose to be their last ditch effort before finally storming Eden.

It doesn't make much sense but in their story, it was the only thing they could do unless they gave up, and they already promised not to do that mid game.

EDIT:

The first case I can remember are when Lightning and Hope come across Carbuncle. Something happens that makes Lightning realize they're being used and says she won't play into their hands. Do you change direction? Do you STOP killing things? ...nope, you keep going the same direction with the same goal yo had before the cutscene.

Right after they leave Carbunble is when they arrive at Palumpolum. Even if she did want to change direction, it only makes sense that they leave the factory. Immediately after that is when they almost get captured and get split up, and the following scenes are them trying to reunite. And after that get Sazh back. I don't think Lightning was actually trying to still take down the Fa'lcie.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

There are three gods, Hallowed Pulse, which created Pulse, Etros- who is in Versus and the reason why l'cie can summon, and Lindzei. Everyone is kind of straight forward except for Lindzei, he's painted in the Analects as a "trickster god" but it's kind of hard to tell because everything written there is horribly biased.

He either made Cucoon and other fal'cie followed him, or he convinced Barthandelus to make Cucoon. I even read it in this thread once that some people believed he was Lindzei.

This is probably beating a dead horse, but I'm severely confused. I thought Lindzei was just the Pulsian (is that how you'd say it?) name for Bathandelus. Are you saying they're actually two seperate beings, one a god and another a fal'Cie? I read the Analects and really thought Barthandelus was just pulling more of his bullshit trickery and getting a name change before moving up to Cocoon

 

[Strangelove]

I think part of the issue with FFXIII is that it's one part of Fabula Nova Crystallis. You only get to see a bit of the mythology, which is why there's gaps in what's known about it. The way they've made it seems to be for it to be filled in by multiple titles.

 

[Arianna]

This is probably beating a dead horse, but I'm severely confused. I thought Lindzei was just the Pulsian (is that how you'd say it?) name for Bathandelus. Are you saying they're actually two seperate beings, one a god and another a fal'Cie? I read the Analects and really thought Barthandelus was just pulling more of his bullshit trickery and getting a name change before moving up to Cocoon

No one really knows for sure if Barthandelus and Lindzei are the same.

I believe they are, but there's got to be a back story to it, because it's even claimed in the Analects that Lindzei left Cocoon, just as Pulse left Gran Pulse.

So to answer your question: Yes, three gods (one goddess, two gods) are mentioned. Lindzei, who was behind Cocoon, Pulse, in which Gran Pulse is named after, and the creator of the planet and all its beings, and then Etro, who's a goddess of death.

It does get confusing when trying to understand just who built Cocoon. The purpose is actually clear: Cocoon was to be a sacrifice to open up the gateway to the spiritual world. Now who did it? That's not so clear.

Again, I believe Barthandelus and Lindzei are one; there's got to be a backstory, but - eh, I can only speculate.

 

[Splintered]

This is probably beating a dead horse, but I'm severely confused. I thought Lindzei was just the Pulsian (is that how you'd say it?) name for Bathandelus. Are you saying they're actually two seperate beings, one a god and another a fal'Cie? I read the Analects and really thought Barthandelus was just pulling more of his bullshit trickery and getting a name change before moving up to Cocoon

That's one theory and there is some of the story that supports this, but imo, there's evidence that shows otherwise.

Luminous lamented, for creation spiraled unto doom.
Stout fashioned earth, that future might take root.
Sage turned mind's eye inward, seeking truth profound.
Fool desired naught, and soon was made one with it.
Maker forged fal'Cie, from fragments Maker's own.
Maker forged Man, from traces once Divine.
In time the gods departed, leaving all by their hands wrought.
Fal'Cie were as Man forsaken, orphans of Maker absconded.

There are three gods that are explicitly mentioned in FFXIII Analects (well, maybe four), but Lindzei is always referred to as a god (Him being Fool). Hiro's translation affirms it

so on the right side of the 1st form I included a face that looked like Barthandelus. The mother on the left side is god Lindzei (the god that had the fal'Cie create Cocoon/ >P.198) as Dysley envisioned it

So not only is Dysley not Lindzei, but Dysley also sort of reveres her- as seen by the fact that he envisions Lindzei as a motherly being. Interesting because Lindzei is painted almost like the devil in Pulse.

Either Lindzei or Dysley created Cucoon from Pulse, or they are the same, I'm not really sure. All I know is that Lindzei also apparently left.

My personal opinion is that of the three gods, Hallowed Pulse left first, leaving the fal'cie to run things for him/her. Keeping with the theme of abandoned children, the Fal'cie wanted to find their god again,

We've long held the goal of the fal'Cie's endless excavations to be the expansion of the world's inhabitable space-the creation of new lands with which to honor the gods. But I contend this to be false. Their methods lack the order one would expect if that were their purpose, and what's more, they gods they would honor have long since departed this world.
I propose a different explanation: the fal'Cie are hunting. Whether they seek a way to recall the gods or to journey to their side I cannot say, but I do believe the fal'Cie seek their lost deities. They search the earth, the skies, the waters, and even the deep places, seeking a gateway to the Divine.

Lindzei convinced Dysley that the only way to do it, was kill billions/millions of people at once- so Dysley and other fal'cie created Cucoon. They told everyone it was a paradise so everyone would live there. And because Cucoon was still technically for the people, it didn't contradict their own focus. Lindzei left soon after.

He's being manipulated by Lindzei, but it could very well be true. One Analect believes that when humans die, they go to the same place as their god. If many die, that door would be wide open.

When our earthly vessels meet their end, the souls they housed must leave this world. Would the path of their migration not be the same one as our departed gods? Must they not pass through the same doorway the Divine employed to reach that place that lies beyond?
If this is the case, it stands to reason that, should a great many lives at once be cut short, a flood of souls would surge through the aforementioned portal. The Door would be thrown wide, and perhaps we might even glimpse the gleaming light of Divinity beyond.

Etros is the only one who doesn't create anything, she's the one that pities L'Cie and not only gives them summons to show them their way, but takes an active hand in saving Cucoon by crystalizing Fang and Vanille before they could complete their focus

Her Providence sought nothing.
Her Providence made nothing.
She but looked on, silent in Her sorrow.
The Goddess pitied mortals, destined as they were to die, and so She deigned to intervene in the hour of their greatest peril. She averted cataclysm that was to be, and put to rest the ones who would have robbed so many of what time fate had ordained.
Her compassion did not end at this.
The Goddess pitied also those subjected to that fate of Focus, crueler still than death. To them She sent Her messengers, to deliver hope when all was lost.

Ragnarok took wing; made to smite Cocoon, and thereby deliver us our everlasting peace. But Her Providence would not let it be.
The Goddess pitied the fools who so blindly bowed to Lindzei's will, and so She robbed Ragnarok of power, putting the l'Cie to an early crystal sleep, Focus yet incomplete.

[/spoiler]
Then again, this is a really biased tale told from an anti Cucoon stance.

Why would Lindzei want to create Cucoon, I have no idea. Analects seem to say he's just an asshole like that, but it's never really stated. There's also a description about the ark in the game that says that it's actually something to fight an enemy "beyond" and maybe that's a reason. But who knows.

I still have no clue if the Pulse and Cucoon fal'cie were in on the whole thing together, or that they have similar goals but really do hate each other. I also got the impression that a lot of fal'cie just don't care, ie Titan. They're just doing their job.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The whole identity issue with Barthandelus and Lindzei was further complicated by the special edition of the FFXIII strategy guide saying that the two are implied to be the same being. Clearly, based on hito's translation, that wasn't intended to be the case, though.

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

Thanks a lot for the answers guys! It's good to know that I wasn't just horribly wrong, there is some confusion there.

I think part of the issue with FFXIII is that it's one part of Fabula Nova Crystallis. You only get to see a bit of the mythology, which is why there's gaps in what's known about it. The way they've made it seems to be for it to be filled in by multiple titles.

Am I the only one who's wondering how the modern look of Versus XIII and the more medieval look of Agito XIII will make any sense within the universe they've constructed for all this? Shit doesn't seem kosher to me.

 

[ForceStealer]

I imagine they're just going to be REALLY far apart in time. I guess. Each game will deal with a particular era. I'm guess that means the other two games will be taking place on Pulse, yes?

 

[Tetsujin]

The way I understood it, the games do not take place in the same worlds at all.

 

[Alex Strife]

That's the way I understood it as well. They just said they use the same mythology, but in each game it is used differently, and that's all they have in common.

You could say they are interpretations of the same "myth".

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

May just be as simple as the deities we've learned about thus far having an influence on multiple worlds, with the story of each Fabula Nova Crystallis title being set on a different world.

 

[ForceStealer]

Well that's...kinda lame. I mean I guess its better for SE who has trouble with continuity...but like I said the actual world was something I really liked, I think it would be very cool to see it in radically different time periods. (Though I suppose XIII would actually be the oldest in the timeline if they did it that way because high technology may ONLY exist in the past for some bizarre reason in anime/RPGs)

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

Any chance that The Maker left the world of XIII to go to the world of Versus XIII? I think that'd be an interesting connection.

 

[ForceStealer]

But that's no stronger a connection than FFs 7 and 10 might have. Why bother making them part of the same series? Just as a justification to make 3 games with the same story?

 

[Cannon_Fodder]

I was thinking it would give us insight into the Maker, who is so important in XIII, but nothing is really known about him. It wouldn't tie the worlds together at all, but it would connect them through a common mythos, which has been said to be the only link this collection will have in common.

 

[Splintered]

But that's no stronger a connection than FFs 7 and 10 might have. Why bother making them part of the same series? Just as a justification to make 3 games with the same story?

I kinda agree and disagree. Hearing they had no relation confused my on the numbering, but I didn't care prior to FFXIII. But after FFXIII and thinking Cucoon was awesome but never having the chance to explore it, I was disappointed. Besides, how cool would it be if while running around as Noctis, you can see a crystalized Cucoon in the background?

Although I think the mythology is kind of important in FFXIII, considering it's what drives the plot (the fal'cie trying to summon their gods). It's just presented to us so subtly that it's easily shifted to the background. Agito seems to take much more from the mythology, since it stays with the fal'cie background.

Still, would be nice to see more of a connection.

 

[Splintered]

Double post because I'm hardcore on the internet.

http://community.livejournal.com/ff_xiii/178606.html?view=859566#t859566

More scans from the ultimania

 

[Glaurung]

BUMP!

Part five of the scans! http://community.livejournal.com/ff_xiii/179892.html

 

[Splintered]

Somebody translated some of the actor interviews for Serah and Lighting

In general:
Ø Staff didn't pick anyone from the first audition to voice Lightning nor Serah as they felt none of them fit their images.
Ø The voice actors/actresses had their recordings individually (apart from the last scene).
Ø They didn't know who the other casts were until later that year.
Ø The very last scene was the only scene where everyone had their recordings altogether.
Ø Apparently, when they had their recordings at the beginning, the graphics inside the game were not completely finished. Because of this, they have seen lots of funny scenes.
Ø One of them was the scene where Lt. Amoda talks to Lightning.

Ø In the incomplete version, Lt. Amoda was a handsome young man about the same age as Lightning, who wears something like an Aloha Shirt.
Ø Voice recording period => about a year.

Sakamoto Maaya (Lightning)'s part:
Ø Sakamoto's first impression of Lightning => 'cold', 'strong', 'female warrior'.
Ø During the audition, she was told by the staff that, 'Although Lightning looks like that (I assume that's about her being all cold and badass), it's all because of the environment she was grown up in that forced her to be strong. But on the inside, she's just a normal woman in her early twenties.'
Ø She was also told that, 'We would like you to voice Lightning as the sort of character who tries very hard to be strong and mature, but on the other hand still remains some sort of childish innocence.'
Ø Sakamoto also voiced Aerith from FFVII, while Aerith was a little bit hard to voice, Lightning's character seems a lot closer to her true self and that makes her feel comfortable.
Ø In her opinion, despite having a cold image, Lightning can just be as hot-blooded as Snow. And she thinks this is the similar part between herself and Lightning.
Ø To Sakamoto, Lightning is the kind of character who doesn't like to show her true feelings nor anxiety to people around her, yet she doesn't hide them away either. Objectively speaking, Lightning is a rather clumsy character to her.
Ø Sakamoto's favourite part of Lightning => 'She looks cool and all yet imperfect.'
Ø Lightning not only sees Serah as her sister, but also as her child. Staff told her, 'Lightning feels a strong sense of responsibility to become like her mother or even her father. She will protect Serah at all cost even if it meant risking her own life.'
Ø Of all characters, Sakamoto likes Hope the best. Part of it is due to the fact that 'the two have spent a long time together', but she also thinks he's a good kid.
Ø The scene which left her the strongest impression was the last scene where Lightning and Serah meet again. Sakamoto says if it was her she would call out 'Serah!' then ran up to her, but then she would feel gloomy all of a sudden because Serah would run to Snow instead. (LOL!)
Ø 'Congratulations.' – Sakamoto had this line recorded over and over again because she had difficulties in getting the tone right.

Kotobuki Minako (Serah)'s part:
Ø Serah was the first video game character Kotobuki ever voiced.
Ø Her first impression of Serah => 'very cute', 'knee high' (leggings), 'small body'.
Ø Similar part between Kotobuki and Serah => age.
Ø 'Serah does sports too as well as study hard. She also plays with her friends just like any other normal students out there.' – From the paper that staff gave Kotobuki during her audition.
Ø To Kotobuki, Snow is the sort of character who seems smart on the outside, but contradicts himself with his own speeches and actions. That's the reason why she understands Lightning's worries. As for Serah, she probably sees in Snow something he possesses but she doesn't, and that makes her fall in love with him.
Ø Her favourite character is Vanille. She likes the atmosphere of the scene where Vanille and Serah have their little talks.
Ø Staff asks Kotobuki whether she would like to record some battle voices as well and she seems interested.
Ø Apparently she likes to hum during her recording breaks (Sakamoto adds: Really? How relax! *laughs*)
Ø If given the chance, she would like to sing for FFXIII.
Ø The scene which left her the strongest impression was the scene where Snow proposed to Serah and she answered 'yes' in return, because she spent a great portion of time recording just that line.
Ø Since all the voice actors/actresses had their recordings separately, Kotobuki didn't have a chance to meet Snow's voice actor until the last scene, where everyone had their recordings altogether.​

Click har for source

 

[Splintered]

Double post oh shit.

http://community.livejournal.com/ff_xiii/184129.html#cutid1

Person posts autographed picture of Lightning and scans of a novella epilogue, Episode 1.

http://dilly-shilly.blogspot.com/2010/12/final-fantasy-xiii-episode-i.html

Someone translates it.

The novella doesn't really explain much. In fact, it makes it more confusing because for some reason, Vanille's and Fang's crystalization is different from the one before.

Because of magic. Plot magic.

http://community.livejournal.com/ff_xiii/183859.html#cutid1

Has a summary, Lightning vanishes at the end, no one knows why.