The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
The observation about German localizations being much clearer is on point, though (see especially: FFXV).
I guess you Deutsche just don't like exercising your ~speculation~ brain muscles.
Final Fantasy XVI
- Thread starter Lex
- Start date
I guess you Deutsche just don't like exercising your ~speculation~ brain muscles.
Tetsujin
he/they
- AKA
- Tets
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
So, this drivel came across my newsfeed this morning:
https://www.fanbyte.com/trending/th...final-fantasy-women-has-me-cautious-of-ffxvi/
More of the "FF fails women now" stuff, complete with excuses about why FFVIIR and FFXIV don't count. I'll also add a hefty dose of misrepresenting FFXIV to this indictment.
I'm guessing the inevitable long-term result of this sort of thing will be "Western fans enjoy arguing that there aren't enough/the right kind of women in FF, so we need to release games with less women so they can have more of those experiences they enjoy when discussing the games with other fans."
https://www.fanbyte.com/trending/th...final-fantasy-women-has-me-cautious-of-ffxvi/
More of the "FF fails women now" stuff, complete with excuses about why FFVIIR and FFXIV don't count. I'll also add a hefty dose of misrepresenting FFXIV to this indictment.
I'm guessing the inevitable long-term result of this sort of thing will be "Western fans enjoy arguing that there aren't enough/the right kind of women in FF, so we need to release games with less women so they can have more of those experiences they enjoy when discussing the games with other fans."
Lex
Administrator
It certainly has nothing to do with ratings however
It's probably just the language/ culture right? Not to generalise but my impression of Germans is direct, to the point, no bullshit. I absolutely love it.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
having been playing a couple of hideo kojima games lately, i think maybe japanese games can explain jargon, in a way english games don't tend to, with furigana/rubi which are little annotations above or next to words that generally tell you how a word is meant to be read but also are used to explain meanings, etc.
so when metal gear solid talks about darpa, it might be written like 国防高等研究計画局 (defense advanced research projects agency) in the subtitles with 'DARPA' in small text above and the dialogue saying 'DARPA' (i just looked at a video from mgs1 and it didn't use that exact example but it does do stuff like that pls trust me). in death stranding when they say 'ka' and 'ha', in the subtitles it's written 魂（カー）[spirit (ka)] and 肉体（ハー）[body (ha)] so you know what it means even if you don't know ancient egyptian/haven't read yu-gi-oh. when they say 'dooms' it's written 能力者（ＤＯＯＭＳ）so you know a 'dooms' is someone with a special power right away. sometimes they have these annotations but the dialogue doesn't use them. at the beginning of mgs1 they have the japanese word for mission 作戦 annotated with the english loan word ミッション but the spoken dialogue uses the japanese word. sometimes it's just you look at a word and you're like
and my favourite from the mgs2 playthrough, where the dialogue says 'baka' and the subtitles annotated it with 'solid ivory'.
ffxiii didn't do exactly this, but sometimes the subtitles will be written differently that the spoken dialogue. when the dialogue says 'pulse' the subtitles say 下界 (lower world) so you have an idea of what it means. 'sanctum' is 聖府 (something like 'holy government') and pronounced like the regular word for 'government' so even if you just have the word with no context or exposition you still get a sense of what it is. it still has stuff like 'fal'cie' and 'l'cie' which need an explanation so it did get some of the same criticism from japanese fans about it throwing these terms around ('cie'th' is シ骸 which is 'cie corpse' and pronounced like a common word for corpse so that's a bit more invocative of the meaning than the english one, although in ff type-0 and ffxv it was written シガイ and i think ffxv calls them 'daemons'?). later ffxiii games would say the loan word for 'chaos' カオス and write it in japanese in the subtitles 混沌, but i don't think カオス is that unusual a word that it needs specifying so this is probably just a stylistic choice.
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LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
So, this drivel came across my newsfeed this morning:
https://www.fanbyte.com/trending/th...final-fantasy-women-has-me-cautious-of-ffxvi/
More of the "FF fails women now" stuff, complete with excuses about why FFVIIR and FFXIV don't count. I'll also add a hefty dose of misrepresenting FFXIV to this indictment.
I'm guessing the inevitable long-term result of this sort of thing will be "Western fans enjoy arguing that there aren't enough/the right kind of women in FF, so we need to release games with less women so they can have more of those experiences they enjoy when discussing the games with other fans."
I'm all for "checking boxes," but jeez, that article was horrible.
Lunafreya is still one of my favorite characters
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
@Strangelove That's a lot closer to what I'm talking about. FFXIV is... weird... in that a lot of the "lore" terms are made in English first and then back-ported into JP afterwards. The bulk of FFXIV's dialogue isn't voiced either, so everyone pretty much just compares the different subtitles to each other. So if one set of subtitles can get more stuff across than other sets...
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
If you add characters just for the sake of checking boxes rather than because you actually have ideas for them, the whole thing ends up being shallow anyway. Final Fantasy has always made great use of its leading ladies, they never just feel like they're there for the sake of it. That article is in really bad faith.
Strangelove
AI Researcher
- AKA
- hitoshura
i thought it was weird that people would only log on like once a month or something, but now i understand
they are spending the rest of month in their dialogue comparison spreadsheets
Wol
None Shall Remember Those Who Do Not Fight
- AKA
- Rosarian Shield
looneymoon
they/them
- AKA
- Rishi
Just looking at the image WoL posted - How many games in the PS5 showcase had trailers that did prominently feature women in them?
I know Tres' point about Shiva being a named character was a little facetious. That said, if I were completely new to FF/video games and saw a cool blue magic elf lady playing some sort of key role, then I'd say she definitely counts.
I am glad we hold the FF series to a higher standard with this stuff than CODBLOPS but like... the female representation argument only really holds water with FFXV imo, which doesn't account for the entire decade (unless you're talking about its development time
). The article then talks about loving Vanille... so I'm a little confused 
I get the author is trying to tap into a feeling of the writing being weak for numerous entries in the PS3/PS4 era, but I think there are more foundational issues at play there.
The dish is still in the oven right now. Sure it looks a little bland at the moment, but we honestly don't know how much spice they added until we try it
I know Tres' point about Shiva being a named character was a little facetious. That said, if I were completely new to FF/video games and saw a cool blue magic elf lady playing some sort of key role, then I'd say she definitely counts.
I am glad we hold the FF series to a higher standard with this stuff than CODBLOPS but like... the female representation argument only really holds water with FFXV imo, which doesn't account for the entire decade (unless you're talking about its development time
). The article then talks about loving Vanille... so I'm a little confused I get the author is trying to tap into a feeling of the writing being weak for numerous entries in the PS3/PS4 era, but I think there are more foundational issues at play there.The dish is still in the oven right now. Sure it looks a little bland at the moment, but we honestly don't know how much spice they added until we try it
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LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
It's so odd that people are getting all up in arms about a game they barely know anything about yet, and posting specious arguments to justify their absurd... I was going to say "outrage", but I cba to read/watch all this analysis of a four minute trailer, so let's just call it "opinionated negativity".
I mean, if you don't like the look of it when it comes out, don't buy it. Seems simple.
I mean, if you don't like the look of it when it comes out, don't buy it. Seems simple.
Lex
Administrator
This is literally our entire fandom and has been since the very beginning, sorry to say
No matter what they do at any point (be it a trailer, the game itself) a fairly large number of people will be pissed off. It's the double-edged sword of the variety they've provided in the past. So much marmite.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
Sorry, I didn't mean it as simply checking boxes, and that be it. I just didn't really get that authors complaint of the women that's been used in the last 10 years. It seems like they just wanted something to complain about.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
People always want something to complain about.
LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
True haha
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Fandoms do sometimes struggle with deliberate ambiguity. I could see giving them something to speculate about so they don't keep yelling at the devs for answers.
No matter where we are in the universe, in whatever time in whatever place, in whatever conversation, someone will always blame George Lucas for shit he has nothing to do with.
Re TTM's article, the fact that they have to ignore the XIII series for 'the last decade' to work says a lot.
I don't know anything about XIV, but it really does feel like the mindset is 'FFXV had an all male cast, which is inherently bad for some reason, therefore we will assume that the next game will as well for some reason.'
No matter where we are in the universe, in whatever time in whatever place, in whatever conversation, someone will always blame George Lucas for shit he has nothing to do with.
Re TTM's article, the fact that they have to ignore the XIII series for 'the last decade' to work says a lot.
I don't know anything about XIV, but it really does feel like the mindset is 'FFXV had an all male cast, which is inherently bad for some reason, therefore we will assume that the next game will as well for some reason.'
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
- AKA
- Ody
The reality that the article unintentionally makes us aware of is that there were only two new mainline FF titles in the last decade, and since apparently MMOs don't count we are left with XV, which just so happened to have an all Male party. This speaks far more to Square's terrible project management than to any commentary on how they view women.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
But MMORPGs do count. And I don't understand how people try to make that conclusion rationally makes sense.
FFXIV has 22,154,145 players. So do all those players magically not count because they aren't playing a real Final Fantasy? Like, that's such an absurdist position. FF XIV is the 14th installment of the FF franchise. Just because you're not playing it or it's single player, doesn't mean it's Thanos'd out of existence. MMORPGs can be FF titles, regardless of if some people like that model of gaming or not. It just is.
LOL, I didn't play Paper Mario Sticker Star or the Origami King, but I don't go around saying there hasn't been a Paper Mario game since Super Paper Mario for the Wii. Because that's absurd.
And that argument over Y'shtola is completely disingenuous. She's not the only woman character in XIV, and the fact she's had a character arc that has spanned all the damn expansions to Shadowbringers, which has her take an active role, speaks to her importance and continued development. Nevermind Yda/Lyse. Nevermind, Tarutaru. Nevermind, Krille. Nevermind the plethora of other important women characters, heroes and villains alike, who have taken prominent roles within the story. It's a ridiculously myopic examination of Y'Shtola alone in a vacuum. No shit, she's not in every single expansion as a major character. That's what character arcs and development do. Sometimes they're prominent, sometimes they get knocked out from going into the Lifestream and allow other characters to get the spotlight. But then they come back stronger and more badass. Acting like Y'Shtola is the only woman character who's important to Eorza is like thinking Rikku was the only Guardian in FFX who was there helping Yuna. Like, where the hell's the rest of the cast in your analysis?
That's some clickbaity crap. We need Zodiark ASAP.
FFXIV has 22,154,145 players. So do all those players magically not count because they aren't playing a real Final Fantasy? Like, that's such an absurdist position. FF XIV is the 14th installment of the FF franchise. Just because you're not playing it or it's single player, doesn't mean it's Thanos'd out of existence. MMORPGs can be FF titles, regardless of if some people like that model of gaming or not. It just is.
LOL, I didn't play Paper Mario Sticker Star or the Origami King, but I don't go around saying there hasn't been a Paper Mario game since Super Paper Mario for the Wii. Because that's absurd.
And that argument over Y'shtola is completely disingenuous. She's not the only woman character in XIV, and the fact she's had a character arc that has spanned all the damn expansions to Shadowbringers, which has her take an active role, speaks to her importance and continued development. Nevermind Yda/Lyse. Nevermind, Tarutaru. Nevermind, Krille. Nevermind the plethora of other important women characters, heroes and villains alike, who have taken prominent roles within the story. It's a ridiculously myopic examination of Y'Shtola alone in a vacuum. No shit, she's not in every single expansion as a major character. That's what character arcs and development do. Sometimes they're prominent, sometimes they get knocked out from going into the Lifestream and allow other characters to get the spotlight. But then they come back stronger and more badass. Acting like Y'Shtola is the only woman character who's important to Eorza is like thinking Rikku was the only Guardian in FFX who was there helping Yuna. Like, where the hell's the rest of the cast in your analysis?
That's some clickbaity crap. We need Zodiark ASAP.
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LNK
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Nate
That's exactly what I was thinking lol. It's not like we're getting a new mainline game every 1 or two years like we used to
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
But to be fair, each expansion of XIV is pretty huge, and we have gotten numerous Final Fantasy games during the last decade. No, they didn't have a Roman Numeral, but they are full-sized FF titles with stories and gameplay indicative of them being full titles in the franchise.
World of FF exists. It's not some fake SaGa game erroneously given the FF title for marketing, lol. Bravely Default exists as well. And we got Type-0, since it was finally released here. We've had several major FF titles. No, they weren't numbered but.. They were full installments that count. If FF Tactics and Vagrant Story count, they most definitely do
At the very least, you can watch some of the events and playthroughs on youtube because they're entertaining as fuck. I intend to play one day when I have time but I'm content to watch it until then, because it's still interesting as hell.
And I know you weren't, I was referring to the article's pond shallow examination of XIV and those who magically ignore XI and XIV somehow existing.
World of FF exists. It's not some fake SaGa game erroneously given the FF title for marketing, lol. Bravely Default exists as well. And we got Type-0, since it was finally released here. We've had several major FF titles. No, they weren't numbered but.. They were full installments that count. If FF Tactics and Vagrant Story count, they most definitely do
At the very least, you can watch some of the events and playthroughs on youtube because they're entertaining as fuck. I intend to play one day when I have time but I'm content to watch it until then, because it's still interesting as hell.
And I know you weren't, I was referring to the article's pond shallow examination of XIV and those who magically ignore XI and XIV somehow existing.