Final Fantasy XVI

Re: @ForceStealer if we're counting optional characters, VI breaks this rule with Mog. If we're not counting optional characters, VII breaks this rule with Yuffie.
We are including optional characters, just not guests, but...Mog is not a girl...

It is very slightly concerning that the next FF will apparently not be "forward-looking" in ways other next-gen games are. But then again, when Versus XIII/FFXV is using technology from over a half a decade old at best, and when even FFVII-R is a few years behind tech-wise, maybe it will still be a considerable leap from what we know.
Perhaps, but trying to be on the bleeding edge was no small part of the issues in the development for XIII and XV. Having a game that looks very good if not revolutionary but on an engine that they know works is probably preferable.
 

looneymoon

hedgehog pandacat
AKA
Rishi
This is definitely not going to happen, but some fun what-if speculation before the announcement. I think it would be cool if the new game is radically different in its approach art direction in the character modelling.

I think what made the FF6-FF10 era feel so special was, with the giant leaps in technology, you could see something radically new with each installment. FF7-FF9 were all on the same system, but the proportions of the characters are all distinct for each game. FF10 saw the advent of the standard, uniform way of approaching the look of the characters. There hasn't been all that big of a shake up since.

idk I think it could be cool if they went full Windwaker and traded in a large amount of detailing for a world that can be large with a lot of character and charm. Not just for a fresh take, but also for the sake of more sustainable development time.

Not that I'd mind if we got a more standard graphical style that we're used to in favour of a game that might be more linear. I just think the hyper-realism (or I guess closer to reality than not in the case of FF?) in gaming is very overrated. Mainline FF hasn't always been that way. In fact it's still not in the spin-off titles, so I think it would be pleasant if they fully committed to something like that for a main title.
 

Wol

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Dawn Warrior
This is definitely not going to happen, but some fun what-if speculation before the announcement. I think it would be cool if the new game is radically different in its approach art direction in the character modelling.

I think what made the FF6-FF10 era feel so special was, with the giant leaps in technology, you could see something radically new with each installment. FF7-FF9 were all on the same system, but the proportions of the characters are all distinct for each game. FF10 saw the advent of the standard, uniform way of approaching the look of the characters. There hasn't been all that big of a shake up since.

idk I think it could be cool if they went full Windwaker and traded in a large amount of detailing for a world that can be large with a lot of character and charm. Not just for a fresh take, but also for the sake of more sustainable development time.

Not that I'd mind if we got a more standard graphical style that we're used to in favour of a game that might be more linear. I just think the hyper-realism (or I guess closer to reality than not in the case of FF?) in gaming is very overrated. Mainline FF hasn't always been that way. In fact it's still not in the spin-off titles, so I think it would be pleasant if they fully committed to something like that for a main title.
My dream is to see a FF title with cel-shading graphics emulating Amano's signature style.
 

JBedford

Pro Adventurer
AKA
JBed
Naoki Yoshida has made comments in the past about Square's obsession with graphics being detrimental to development. If he is involved with XVI it may bring me slight hope. Although his comments were in the context of building an MMO in a short space of time, and I still honestly can't see FF not trying to go hyper-realistic with their main FF titles.

A game using Amano's style is something I'd like to see.
 

Roger

Triple Slash Enthusiast
AKA
Minato
We've already got VIIR carrying the torch of Square's usual look, so I also think XVI would be a good opportunity to branch out stylistically. I also want a game based on Amano's style, I'm kind of amazed they haven't done that yet honestly.
FFXIV's Eulmore is Amano art piece brought to life as near as technology allows I feel.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Final Fantasy becoming an anime cell-shaded inspired mix of the "Tales of" and "Mana" RPG series is the absolute last thing that will allow the series to differentiate itself from its genre saturating peers. And I think the last 2-D art style it should take as cell-shading inspiration from is Amano. His art style is good and he's a talented artist.... If you ignore the fact that 90% of his women look exactly the same. Amano excels in great costume and setting designs but it's an entirely different story in regards to some of the character appeaerances themselves. Don't even get me started on how he drew certain characters outside of his experience. There's a reason why they had to redo General Leo's artwork. I would be very wary of how he'd design an ensemble and diverse cast of characters.

Like, Final Fantasy's realistic style has been the exception of the trend of hyper-real graphics being just a derivative reflection of reality. What's set their increasingly exceptional graphics and designs apart have been not just the groundbreaking combination of realistic, detailed models, but the aesthetic of them looking as if they hail from a world beyond our own. The FFXIII cast was groundbreakingly unique because of the fact that they not only looked like real people, but fantastical and uniquely from a different world. Sazh was a black man that felt right at home in the fantasy world he hailed from and he carried realistic features beyond just being really, really good looking. Fang's design was an amazing combination of athletic, Indian inspired beauty and strength, combined with a uniquely fantasy aesthetic. FFVII-R's incredible designs broke the limits of what was possible in depicting and capturing the unique and memorable style of the designs that were done back in 97. There's a reason why Barret's popularity and sex appeal has skyrocketed since the Remake. Like... FF would be literally surrendering the one of the main things that has made them one of the top-dogs of the RPG genre. By trying to copy competition that are not in the same league as them. Especially by defaulting to an artist that has some serious issues in depicting cast members who are not blond, pale, and Japanese. Like, it'd be a step down.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I'm in the minority in that Amano's art does nothing for me. I don't like it at all, and so wouldn't enjoy immersing myself in a world done in that style.
I'm ambivalent but sort of in the same boat as you. Like, I said, he does amazing costume, and setting designs, and it looks extremely well done. He's a great artist when he draws what he knows but.... There's a reason why I am extremely cold to his artworks of FF characters past VI. They're not that good, with the exception of IX.

They had to recolor the Cloud, Aerith, Barret, Red XIII and Cait Sith Amano artwork because... Well, I have no idea what the fuck he was thinking when he colored Barret in that one. I just. I don't understand where that came from lol. Suffice to say the newer coloration is better but. It's just... He can only draw how he draws, I suppose. But it's not very inspiring.
 
AKA
The Engineer
Would you guys be open for character creation in FF (mainline)? I mean, FFXV had the avatara system making it possible to replace Noctis with a player-created character.

Maybe having the option would be entertaining.
The problem with this isn't that the technology isn't there. The problem is that it's really, really, really hard to do good solid characterization with a "player insert" character. And solid characterization is a staple across all FF games. Even the MMOs have that for their NPCs while they don't have it as much for the MC. And when they do have it for the MC, there's always players go "that isn't how my character would react" to X plot thing.

Having a customizable appearance for a character that is basically their own character that the PC can't effect is also... weird. When you're the person designing what a character looks like, as a player, it gives you the idea that you have control over that character. So to let the player design a character and then not give them control over how the characterization works feels like pulling the rug out from under the character.

As far as art/design goes... I hate to say it, but I think people will be turned off if the FFXVI isn't realistic. For better or for worse (worse I think) there is very much a version of the Animation Age Ghetto when it comes to computer graphics. Stuff that isn't realistic isn't taken seriously by a lot of people, at least when it's from an AAA studio. Which is one of the reasons I think a lot of the "side" FF content "doesn't count" for a lot people; it doesn't look realistic like modern FF games do, so they don't think of it as a game worth their time putting in the hours. LIke it or not, people expect to be "wowed" by FF games. And people aren't really "wowed" by non-realistic stuff anymore.

At least not in the AAA game market. For Indie games it's more expected, but usually those push the oppposite end of the spectrum. They're smaller games that aren't usually 3D open world with far less story and things to animate, so things like painting everything in a digital painter is actually feasible. Get a good art team on board and they can call it a day. Usually though, most indie games are either isometric or side-scrolling or use pixel graphics. Most of them aren't aiming for 3D open world because that kind of game is just too big for a small studio to tackle at all.

What you don't see a lot of "artsy" stuff done with is 3D open world.... or... 3D instanced word for that matter. Once you get models with a movable camera moving around in an environment, it has to feel realistic in a certain way. And... I just don't see a non-realistic art-style working with FFXVI. I think it says something that FF stopped doing more stylized main title games when they got rid of the static camera in the scene and instead had it follow the player around.

Amano's stuff... FFXIV has a lot of bosses that either are his designs or inspired by his designs. They are all great takes on his designs in 3D... they also have... odd proportions compared with everything else. And this is in a game where you have a whole bunch of different races with very different proportions in it. For Amano's stuff to really work, I feel you'd have to design an entire game around it... and Amano's stuff has always looked best in 2D, not 3D.

Amano Inspired Designs in FFXIV
Halicarnasus - Image 1, Image 2
Exdeath - Image 1
Neo Exdeath - Image 1, Transformation Sequence into Neo Exdeath
Kefka - Image 1, Image 2, Kefka Intro
God Kefka - Image 1, Transformation Sequence into God Kefka
Omega-M and Omega-F - Image 1, Image 2
You could probably throw in some orriginal characters like Zenos who are quite obviously inspired by Amano's style too.

Amano does his best art for like... the Logos of the various FF games. Which aren't supposed to be realistic or the basis of character design at all. Quite the opposite. They would have to be drawn after all the characters are designed. Many of the later ones are fantastic at getting across emotion, feeling, etc.
 

FFShinra

Sharp Shinra Shill
I'm fine with Amano continuing to do the title art, but I agree that just Amano all the time would do nothing for me. I think that holds true for the creators too, given how many chances they've had to do it and instead go with just about every other artist.

No, I think they'll stick with fantastical realism. It's Final Fantasy's schtick versus other JRPGs. But they can still change the aesthetics, even in the prism of realism. Have someone other than Nomura as lead character designer (and not trying to ape his style a la Ferrari) just to get a fresh style (12 may not be VERY different from the other games, but they are still noticeably so). Open it back up to non-human party members, expand out the cast back to at least 9 members if not more. Then have writing and acting take care of them and make them interesting. Coupled with lore and level/world design, I think it'd be enough. All the guys they have been relying on are busy with other projects, so this might be a good opportunity for a new direction. New blood.

Hell, thats one of the long term effects of 7R I'm looking forward to, all the new talent they brought in to help make it. I can see Hamaguchi becoming showrunner of the IP the way Nomura kind of is now in about five years or so.
 
@Ite, I'm actually trying to write that medical fantasy adventure. It's very difficult when you know very little about how those things work. If you want to try it, I'm interested.

Re Resident Evil, I actually liked the progression. There are only so many times the same characters can be caught by surprise by viral outbreaks, sooner or later they'll get used to it. If they keep repeating the same scenarios it will hit the Law of Diminishing Returns, you can't just have the same game with new mechanics and a new villain. It's one of those few series where they actually keep expanding the lore with each instalment, with no reset button.

I love what they did with Chris, where he slowly starts cracking after losing so many people and eventually snap completely.

Jonathan Reid, Vampyr.
Jude, Tales of Xillia,
Nynaeve, WOT.
 
Characters don't need to be sexy to be appealing imo. It's one of the things that I find alienating in the branding. I'm definitely in the minority on that though :monster:
The characters in Ghost of Tsushima are not sexy. The protagonist is quite homely, and there's no fanservice at all. They all look like real people living challenging existences in a difficult situation. And they're so engaging.
 

Prism

Pro Adventurer
AKA
pikpixelart
On the topic of characters and attractiveness, media 100% needs to learn how to represent real people more in the stories they tell - I agree that Ghosts was a breath of fresh air in that regard. It allows for a more engaging story a lot of the times, yes. I also generally prefer anime that has more grounded designs. (my av's a pretty good example of a series that does that, actually)

I don't apply this standard universally, however: sometimes one of the aims of a project / world is to really have the most graceful cast possible, and I lump FF in that camp. So I'm all in on FF having beautiful characters - it's part of the "fantasy" for me.

He can only draw how he draws, I suppose. But it's not very inspiring.
To say that one of the most experimental artists in the game industry is not very inspiring? C'mon Mako, my man. Feel free to not like his work and all, that's fair game, but you gotta admit that he's one of the more inspired artists out there. And I say this with all due respect, of course. You're usually pretty much spot-on on things otherwise.

The only reason why I think his post-VI character drawings are controversial to some is just because he doesn't have free-reign over the designs. I personally like them, but Nomura's character style isn't suited for Amano's strengths.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
To say that one of the most experimental artists in the game industry is not very inspiring? C'mon Mako, my man. Feel free to not like his work and all, that's fair game, but you gotta admit that he's one of the more inspired artists out there. And I say this with all due respect, of course. You're usually pretty much spot-on on things otherwise.

The only reason why I think his post-VI character drawings are controversial to some is just because he doesn't have free-reign over the designs. I personally like them, but Nomura's character style isn't suited for Amano's strengths.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's terrible or his works are without merit. He's extremely good at what he does, and when his designs are good, they're extremely good. But, he misses the mark in doing designs that are outside his usual frame of reference. You see that in his designs of characters that aren't his own designs or just aren't... Well, in line with his aesthetic. And while his designs for women characters look good, there's also something very weird about Celes, Tifa, Rinoa and Garnet looking near identical despite them well, not looking that way at all. xD

I don't hate his art, and his designs can be great, but, I think I prefer his designs more when they're refined and/or reworked at times by other artists. His initial designs and inspirations are amazing, but he's also got some weaknesses in his extremely unique style. Like you said, he has trouble capturing some elements with that distinct style.
 
AKA
The Engineer
Wait... how do Celes, Tifa, Rinoa and Garnet look identical to each other? And even if they did, Amano only worked on one of them, Celes. Tifa and Rinoa are both Nomura designed characters from start to finish. Garnet was designed by... I forget who, but I know it wasn't Amano or Nomura as neither of them did character design for FFIX. So if anything, those characters are an example of how different character designers can design similar looking characters.

Which I guess.... Tifa, Rinoa and Garnet all have pale skin and brown hair? But that's the only real similarities I see between them. The costuming for them is very different and goes a long way to show them being very different characters from each other.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Wait... how do Celes, Tifa, Rinoa and Garnet look identical to each other? And even if they did, Amano only worked on one of them, Celes. Tifa and Rinoa are both Nomura designed characters from start to finish. Garnet was designed by... I forget who, but I know it wasn't Amano or Nomura as neither of them did character design for FFIX. So if anything, those characters are an example of how different character designers can design similar looking characters.

Which I guess.... Tifa, Rinoa and Garnet all have pale skin and brown hair? But that's the only real similarities I see between them. The costuming for them is very different and goes a long way to show them being very different characters from each other.
No, that's my point. They don't actually look like each other, but if you look at their Amano artwork renditions, they've been drawn so similarly that other than their clothes, you'd think they were near identical or feature such a strong resemblance to each other, despite that not being the case at all. Amano's artworks for some reason makes a lot of his women characters pale, white/blond haired, and hour-glass shaped. Garnet's strikes me as the most strange example of this, she looks like she could be Celes' sister. And it doesn't have to be the case because Amano's other designs for the IX characters are extremely distinct and unique. I dunno why Garnet got whacked with the Celes stick but... That's how it turned out :monster:

And on another note, Aerith's Amano artwork sorta resembles Celes too....

Celes_II.jpg
Celes.jpg



Like... I don't think I'm taking crazy pills here. Those three characters look very similar, despite not being similar at all. Garnet literally looks like she's a missing Rune Knight for the Gestahlian Empire. LOL why does she even have a sword?
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom