Game of Thrones
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Harbinger O Great Justice
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For your appreciation: http://todayinawesome.com/blog/2015...accurate-and-umm-kinda-attractive-or-whatever
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Dark Nation
Melodramatic much..
I've caught up with the game of thrones..
The only reason I watch it is because it has Dragons ( from time to time ) The dwarf who I have grown fond of when he spoke to Jamie about their cousin who obviously had mental difficulties... It showed the halfman to be something on an early philosopher/psychologist... it was touching.
However the only real reason I watch it is to get my Petyr Baelish fix..
He's a man after my own heart.
I've found that the show has failed to capture the tension it held before the red wedding. The twists are good enough but it just doesn't have the same suspense as before.
Also I am saddened by the death of Selmy... It was grand to see him go down like a Lion but he deserved a better death than that...Also.
Daenerys is getting on my nerves a bit. Her pussy footing about with the public is completely needless.
Arya is looking like a little warrior princess in the making, she's come a long way.
It's still holding my attention but it really is all about Baelish for me.
ps, That bastard son of the people who I can't recall...That sadistic little shit that has just married sansa... I hope to holy hell he gets it tight...I found Joffrey to be somewhat amusing as he was clearly drunk on power and deluded not to mention inbred...but that other bastard....He's got it coming.
The only reason I watch it is because it has Dragons ( from time to time ) The dwarf who I have grown fond of when he spoke to Jamie about their cousin who obviously had mental difficulties... It showed the halfman to be something on an early philosopher/psychologist... it was touching.
However the only real reason I watch it is to get my Petyr Baelish fix..
He's a man after my own heart.
I've found that the show has failed to capture the tension it held before the red wedding. The twists are good enough but it just doesn't have the same suspense as before.
Also I am saddened by the death of Selmy... It was grand to see him go down like a Lion but he deserved a better death than that...Also.
Daenerys is getting on my nerves a bit. Her pussy footing about with the public is completely needless.
Arya is looking like a little warrior princess in the making, she's come a long way.
It's still holding my attention but it really is all about Baelish for me.
ps, That bastard son of the people who I can't recall...That sadistic little shit that has just married sansa... I hope to holy hell he gets it tight...I found Joffrey to be somewhat amusing as he was clearly drunk on power and deluded not to mention inbred...but that other bastard....He's got it coming.
Flintlock
Pro Adventurer
I've been disappointed in the last couple of episodes, particularly episode five. I know it's a fantasy show, but I've always been much more interested in the politics and wars than the fantastic elements, like
. I also find Ramsay's scenes to be boring, since there's nobody to stand up to him. I thought Sansa had grown a little at the end of the fourth season but she's still weak. And my favourite character since the first season, the know-nothing at Castle Black, wasn't in episode six at all. 
greyscale and the stone men, dragons, and the House of Black and White
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
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- Ite
It's a good thing this season looks so cheap, because it is easier to identify as fan fiction. At least they aren't using CG too sparingly, Arya *long bleep* cool. And Viserion got to *slide-whistle* at least since the show is cutting *bleep*
But I'm pissed about *long bleep* rape and *honk* is now Arys Oakhart and *woopwoopwoop* Connington
AND THEY KILLED *screech*
But the books aren't going anywhere at least.
In Season 1 Episode 1, by the way, there is a scene in whch Septa Mordane is trying to teach Arya and Sansa needlepoint. So is Sansa lying or have the writers dropped to new levels of pandering?
*Tyrion wakes up* This isn't the Rhoyne!
But I'm pissed about *long bleep* rape and *honk* is now Arys Oakhart and *woopwoopwoop* Connington
AND THEY KILLED *screech*
But the books aren't going anywhere at least.
In Season 1 Episode 1, by the way, there is a scene in whch Septa Mordane is trying to teach Arya and Sansa needlepoint. So is Sansa lying or have the writers dropped to new levels of pandering?
*Tyrion wakes up* This isn't the Rhoyne!
Cthulhu
Administrator
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- Yop
IDK if people should spoiler tags spoilers better, IDK, 
. I haven't actually watched anything from the last season yet (I'm occasionally watching some episodes with a friend, we're almost caught up), but from what I hear left and right is that they're going their own way, like, lots .
Am re-reading ADwD though, so the books are a bit fresher again (I forgot most of what happens in there already)
. I haven't actually watched anything from the last season yet (I'm occasionally watching some episodes with a friend, we're almost caught up), but from what I hear left and right is that they're going their own way, like, lots .Am re-reading ADwD though, so the books are a bit fresher again (I forgot most of what happens in there already)
Jason Tandro
Banned
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- Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
Uh, yeah gonna need a spoiler tag on this one. Mr. Ite and I have already discussed this one at length. I respect his viewpoints, but I offer my own, which I sum up in this. Literally copy-pasta'd from Facebook:
Some tumblrina said this about the recent GOT episode where apparently (i haven't seen it.) Sansa stark gets raped.
"Rape is not a necessary plot device."
Any other unpleasant realities of life you wish to forever strike from the world of art because it makes you uncomfortable? Not all art is beautiful. Perhaps the GoT episode was shock pandering, perhaps not. I haven't seen it, though as it so greatly altered the source material I am willing to bet it is over the top at best (because genital mutilation, torture and of course a ton of murder was fine but THIS is over the top).
But what I do know is that this general statement is a blanket reactionary cry. Whether or not you agree with this show saying that something is off limits from being described in art is to say that art itself can now be censored.
People keep saying this is "glorifying rape." No. No you simpletons expressing something in an artform is not always glorifying it. A film that glorifies rape would be Deepthroat, not this. Its like saying that American History X glorifies hate crimes.
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Now to clarify, I have no problem with people boycotting the show. I find their logic questionable if they watched the entire series up until now, but this one thing pushed them over the edge. ( Because the torture, mutilation, stabbing a pregnant woman in the belly to kill her child, tons of murder and (by my count) 4 other scenes of rape or at least sexual assault, were fine, but this is the one that puts you over the edge... )
But if you don't want to watch a show, that's fine. But the people saying that rape must never be depicted in art... come on now, grow up. Life has a dark side and it can be a motivator for powerful art, unpleasant though it may be.
"Rape is not a necessary plot device."
Any other unpleasant realities of life you wish to forever strike from the world of art because it makes you uncomfortable? Not all art is beautiful. Perhaps the GoT episode was shock pandering, perhaps not. I haven't seen it, though as it so greatly altered the source material I am willing to bet it is over the top at best (because genital mutilation, torture and of course a ton of murder was fine but THIS is over the top).
But what I do know is that this general statement is a blanket reactionary cry. Whether or not you agree with this show saying that something is off limits from being described in art is to say that art itself can now be censored.
People keep saying this is "glorifying rape." No. No you simpletons expressing something in an artform is not always glorifying it. A film that glorifies rape would be Deepthroat, not this. Its like saying that American History X glorifies hate crimes.
===
Now to clarify, I have no problem with people boycotting the show. I find their logic questionable if they watched the entire series up until now, but this one thing pushed them over the edge. ( Because the torture, mutilation, stabbing a pregnant woman in the belly to kill her child, tons of murder and (by my count) 4 other scenes of rape or at least sexual assault, were fine, but this is the one that puts you over the edge... )
But if you don't want to watch a show, that's fine. But the people saying that rape must never be depicted in art... come on now, grow up. Life has a dark side and it can be a motivator for powerful art, unpleasant though it may be.
Roger
He/him
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- Minato
I wouldn't say this is glorifying rape. But I do feel this is sabotaging Sansa's plotline. She's narrowly avoided rape at the hands of Joffrey, mobs, the Hound, Tyrion, Littlefinger. She's been beaten to a pulp. Everyone close to her has died. This doesn't do anything for her character. And it isn't neccesary for the plot. As Pod showed, it's piss easy to just walk to Winterfell without bothering with going through any guarded checkpoints No northern lords that need placating through marrying the Stark still exists in the show. Littlefinger would never just give Sansa to the Boltons just cause chaos and stuff.
No, Sansa gets raped so Theon generally gets his development from the books and Brienne gets something to do. **** that.
No, Sansa gets raped so Theon generally gets his development from the books and Brienne gets something to do. **** that.
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
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- The Man, V
It's a pretty dumb change to the books all right (I don't see any realistic way this won't drastically alter Sansa's character arc unless the writers have no understanding of human nature whatsoever, which they might not), but after what they did to Jaime last season I don't think I'll be surprised by any dumb decisions in this show. George, you'd better finish your books before you kick the bucket so we get a version of the ending that isn't tainted.
Splintered
unsavory tart
Eh, I don't keep up with the show but I've been running into outrage of the sansa thing, and since Sansa is one of my favorite characters it's pretty hard to ignore. I guess I'm the odd one out, it doesn't particularly bother me, I just have to really separate book and show Sansa, and since the show was already grating on a lot of my nerves it wasn't that hard.
That said I do sort of understand why they did it. Sansa arc in Feast of Crows was short, and in the book Sansa and Littlefinger have been circling the Vale, and the Vale hasn't really been involved in anything, it's unimportant as of now. She wasn't even in A Dance With Dragons, so it was either merge her story or leave her out.
And honestly, the Vale is just another element that is overcomplicating the matter. It works in the book, but the show is a lot shorter and they have to deal with
They need to consolidate stories and while I really enjoyed Sansa's arc, I was in the minority. I remember when ADWD came out and Reek's chapters were definitely some of the most talked about and readers found it more compelling.
That said, Reek's story is Reek's. Jeyne's character was made to help the Bolton's strengthen their claim in the North, to make Ramsay look even more of a dickhead and for
Sansa isn't Jeyne, she's a full fledged character in her own right, and so now, we'll have to see how they split Reek's narrative, and hopefully have Sansa not just be a character in Reek's story.
I don't think the argument is that the show is "glorifying" rape. I've seen a lot of people bitch about this development, and in a sea of complaints, I've seen maybe one of this.
The argument is that they use rape exploitative manner, and threw away Sansa's arc to shoehorn her rape as a way to shock audiences and a way to further Theon's story, at the expense of Sansa's character development. It's basically people saying "rape as backstory" is overdone in game of thrones and because of the prevalence within society (as opposed to castration and flaying) should be handled with care or not at all.
Honestly... yeah rape as backstory is lazy, but I never particularly found it offensive. Maybe that's just me, it disturbing as hell to watch, but I don't particularly get why people should stop writing X (unless it is glorifying something potentially damaging, like pedophilia) and how it's such a sacred cow that no one should defile it ever, especially in game of thrones where it's repeatedly used.
Basically, the real crux of what is making people pissed is if you think using rape as a shock tool is misogynistic or not.
The argument is that they use rape exploitative manner, and threw away Sansa's arc to shoehorn her rape as a way to shock audiences and a way to further Theon's story, at the expense of Sansa's character development. It's basically people saying "rape as backstory" is overdone in game of thrones and because of the prevalence within society (as opposed to castration and flaying) should be handled with care or not at all.
Honestly... yeah rape as backstory is lazy, but I never particularly found it offensive. Maybe that's just me, it disturbing as hell to watch, but I don't particularly get why people should stop writing X (unless it is glorifying something potentially damaging, like pedophilia) and how it's such a sacred cow that no one should defile it ever, especially in game of thrones where it's repeatedly used.
Basically, the real crux of what is making people pissed is if you think using rape as a shock tool is misogynistic or not.
Yeah this is the only thing that gets to me. Sansa isn't gendry, she's her own POV story and has been going her own way for some time now, and maybe her story might be bearing fruit in book canon.
There's a striking difference to how Sansa deals with Harry, her canon betrothed, and Ramsay, her show husband, mostly that Sansa is safe in the Vale and she is actively manipulating Harry. Harry might be in higher status but Sansa is clearly working him over and has power in that relationship with wits.
Ramsay, she looks completely broken and out of power. Which, if you want her to take the angry vengeance, desperately surviving route, it works that way. But it feels awkward because, if I were to compare it... like...if Dany got raped in the show right now, in midseason. Dany was a victim of rape, but the key word is "was," she had survived the sexual assault and moved on into a position of power. And while Sansa is not Dany's position of authority, Sansa also survived her near sexual assaults and dis-empowerment.
Sansa isn't also thinking about revenge in the books, or survival. She's simply gaining power and thinking about home. So whatever that's worth...
What Sansa is doing right now is consolidating power by trying to get in with Harry, thereby taking in the Vale, a strong power, a practically immovable fortress, and as of winds of winter, a stockpile of food giving them an advantage over many of the starving areas of Westeroes.
Ramsay, she looks completely broken and out of power. Which, if you want her to take the angry vengeance, desperately surviving route, it works that way. But it feels awkward because, if I were to compare it... like...if Dany got raped in the show right now, in midseason. Dany was a victim of rape, but the key word is "was," she had survived the sexual assault and moved on into a position of power. And while Sansa is not Dany's position of authority, Sansa also survived her near sexual assaults and dis-empowerment.
Sansa isn't also thinking about revenge in the books, or survival. She's simply gaining power and thinking about home. So whatever that's worth...
What Sansa is doing right now is consolidating power by trying to get in with Harry, thereby taking in the Vale, a strong power, a practically immovable fortress, and as of winds of winter, a stockpile of food giving them an advantage over many of the starving areas of Westeroes.
That said I do sort of understand why they did it. Sansa arc in Feast of Crows was short, and in the book Sansa and Littlefinger have been circling the Vale, and the Vale hasn't really been involved in anything, it's unimportant as of now. She wasn't even in A Dance With Dragons, so it was either merge her story or leave her out.
And honestly, the Vale is just another element that is overcomplicating the matter. It works in the book, but the show is a lot shorter and they have to deal with
Dany from the east, Stannis in the North, the Wildings and the Others, the Manderly's trying to get Rickon and steal power from the Boltons, the Tyrells and Lannisters at each others throat in the South, what's going on the riverlands and what will happen if the Frey's lose their hostages, the Dornes, and Aegon in the stormlands.
They need to consolidate stories and while I really enjoyed Sansa's arc, I was in the minority. I remember when ADWD came out and Reek's chapters were definitely some of the most talked about and readers found it more compelling.
That said, Reek's story is Reek's. Jeyne's character was made to help the Bolton's strengthen their claim in the North, to make Ramsay look even more of a dickhead and for
Theon to begin his path of redemption.
Sansa isn't Jeyne, she's a full fledged character in her own right, and so now, we'll have to see how they split Reek's narrative, and hopefully have Sansa not just be a character in Reek's story.
That said, Sansa is in less power as she is now in the books, but she's in a better position to strike. Right now Sansa is playing games in Vale and Winterfell seems to be her final goal post, but here in the show Sansa is actually in Winterfell, and married to a Bolton and the Dreadnought is a pretty substantial power as well.
So if the show isn't wholy incompetent, Sansa will begin playing the game in Winterfell, effectively taking control of the North and skipping the Vale altogether. Which would be... interesting if I actually cared about what the writers.
Honestly did the same thing happen in the books, where the wedding happened in the same heads of houses in the North? I feel like a lot of the intrigue could have changed from Ramsay being a sadistic dickhead, and having Sansa actually work the heads of the North, antagonizing Manderly against the Freys and gaining loyalty from the others.
That would be a great way to segway to the true spirit of Sansa's arc.
So if the show isn't wholy incompetent, Sansa will begin playing the game in Winterfell, effectively taking control of the North and skipping the Vale altogether. Which would be... interesting if I actually cared about what the writers.
Honestly did the same thing happen in the books, where the wedding happened in the same heads of houses in the North? I feel like a lot of the intrigue could have changed from Ramsay being a sadistic dickhead, and having Sansa actually work the heads of the North, antagonizing Manderly against the Freys and gaining loyalty from the others.
That would be a great way to segway to the true spirit of Sansa's arc.
Splintered
unsavory tart
also there's a weird amount of people saying it wasn't rape
Ⓐaron
Factiō Rēpūblicāna dēlenda est.
- AKA
- The Man, V
Rape as drama is overused in this show, and that’s coming from someone who wasn’t that bothered by the prevalence of the trope in the books. This now marks three major instances of rape scenes being thrown in that weren’t in the books. In the first case (Dany’s) it arguably served a legitimate narrative purpose (the writers apparently couldn’t make her story work on screen without it) but the second one (Cersei’s) was not only completely gratuitous but apparently not even intended, and this one is either going to change a character’s arc completely unnecessarily or once again break suspension of disbelief as it did when Cersei’s wasn’t even mentioned again (as far as I know anyway). This is getting to “canon defilement” levels here.
Jason Tandro
Banned
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- Jason Tandro, Doc Brown, Santa Christ, FearAddict, Thibault Stormrunner, RN: Micah Rodney
So what you're saying is... *sunglasses*
They're raping the source material?
In all seriousness though, and admittedly this is probably a whole other thread, but I don't mind when people alter source material to make them work as a movie... in the sense that I understand different mediums tell different stories different ways.
Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, maybe they have made these changes because
a) A dubcon / noncon sequence would be a dark way of showing how low the character's plights have sunk (you know, apart from pretty much her entire life since Season 1 being an absolute hell)
b) They wanted to keep that element from the source material in and figured making it happen to her would be the best way to tie it in.
c) They know their audience has come to expect terrible things from this show and don't want to disappoint.
I'm not saying these necessarily excuse it per se, but I can understand why they might have done this. If you're a purist then there's gonna be a lot of stuff that you hate if for no other reason than it alters the books in an irreconcilable way.
Do we need to go back to Desolation of Smaug? Great movie, a butchering of the source material so bad that it makes my friends old high school parody of Lord of the Rings seem more accurate.
Cthulhu
Administrator
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- Yop
I don't mind some alterations to a story to make it suitable for the big screen, but adding scenes for crude shock value, at the expense of characters (whose storyline in the source material is far from developed / over) is just wrong. I already had trouble with the gratuitously added nudity / sex scenes in the first series, but this?
This series has now been reduced to Spartacus in the GoT universe. With less violence,
This series has now been reduced to Spartacus in the GoT universe. With less violence,
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Harbinger O Great Justice
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- X
A interesting statistical analysis of rape in Game of Thrones: both the books and the show (this article compiles and links to all the full breakdowns on the user's tumblr). This is probably of interest to some folks here given recent events in the show.
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Ami
Playing All The Stuff!
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- Amizon, Commander Shepard, Ellie, Rinoa Heartilly, Xena, Clara Oswald, Gamora, Lana Kane, Tifa Lockhart, Jodie Holmes, Chloe Price.
The latest episode was worth it for Cersei's face. I love her fabulous bitch of a character, but it felt so damn satisfying finally helpless.