I suspect what people hate most about Chadley is that he's an anime trope. He's also a bit stilted like a CC character which would probably bring back bad memories for a lot of people. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a correlation between hating him and hating the "anime grunts" (which I honestly don't notice).
Six months later, Remake stands out to me for a few main elements:
-How they updated character designs: It’s easy to take the new designs for granted now that we’ve had them for a while, but many of the mid-2000s iterations of the VII character designs lost sight of what made them so appealing. Remake takes all of the traits of the original cast and transfers them into modern fidelity seamlessly, while fixing some of the more silly traits they had. (Like Aeris’ and Sephy’s bangs sticking out like antenna, or Barret wearing metal rings around his chest)
I view them as the definitive versions of nearly all of the cast. Though believe me, I find those mid-2000s versions appealing for different reasons. The voice acting is stellar and feels natural, and character chemistry has been improved all across the board.
-How they remade a game as faithfully as possible somehow while still making it feel like a radically different experience
-How they made a unique take on real-time combat while still keeping it faithful in a lot of ways: The ATB meter keeps battles feeling rhythmic, and the battles are still structured in a way where you have to strategically choose which parts of the enemy to attack. Those two elements are the backbone of the original system, and are what draws the game into feeling like an FFVII experience. Everything else about combat is different, including the role of Materia. However, Materia loadout really is another layer of strategy in itself: the amount of creativity I’ve seen people use various Materia combinations really is impressive, and brings combat to another level during the harder difficulties. I guess whether or not you like that added strategic value depends on your preferences: do you prefer strategy to be all in the preparation before the battle, or in the decisions made during the heat of battle? The Materia system does offer both, but I’d argue primarily offers the former. All in all, the battle system is both exciting, action-packed, and strategic, which is not an easy thing to do.
The biggest drawback of the game, even more-so than the controversial story decisions, is the map design. The maps were smaller in the original VII, but it feels like there was more to explore in the original - there are more objects of interest per screen. In Remake, I’d argue that as large as the maps are, the majority of the time, you’re staring at the minimap icon instead of actually taking the world in. The world has some really lovely details if you do stop and smell the roses, but the game doesn’t incentivize you to do so. In the OG, map exploration is what progressed the game; in Remake, following the mini-map does.
This might be cheating the thread’s premise a bit, but I reiterate and elaborate on why I felt that hurt the game in a long review of the game that I decided not to post for some reason (written like months ago):
There’s another element to the environments that stuck out to me. In the original, you kind of investigate each environment a lot more thoroughly. The screen-by-screen nature makes it so each object is worth your attention - you’re always searching things. In Remake, it’s easy to just kind of barrel past large amounts of the environment because you’re more concerned with reaching the (!) objective checkpoint. It’s too easy just to stare at the mini map instead of the gorgeous environment, which I attribute to them being a little maze-like. I turn off the minimap whenever I can because of this.
The investigative style of the original environment lends itself well to the unfolding mystery of the game’s story, a slow trickle of information that doesn’t seem to make sense until you have all of it - then it all makes perfect sense.
This take is a bit abstract, but I hope I can explain it properly. The player psychology / mindset matters a lot when they’re playing. A mystery is less engaging in a world where you’re just rushing through the environment, and subsequently, means more when you’re actively in an investigative mindset because of the environment. In the original, it feels like you’re slowly pulling off the layers to Midgar, seeing more and more of what makes it tick. FFVII was supposedly originally going to be a detective game, oddly enough, and that aspect carried over in this way.
This is the largest difference in how the game feels to me. During my playthrough, I couldn’t quite put my finger on why it felt so different (other than being a game that’s 20 years apart) but I think I’ve come to realize it’s this aspect - player mindset when exploring environments.
The benefit of the maps is that there are a handful of areas that were recreated nearly 1:1, like Aerith’s house and the Honeybee Inn. They were so gorgeous to see in HD! All of the maps are gorgeous, more or less. (Mipmapping issues aside, lol)
-How they fleshed out the story: the approach of “take the same story structure, but subdivide it to have more content” is a really good approach to remaking a game like VII. Nothing was lost, and each story event is given a lot more room to breathe and happen organically. This version of AVALANCHE is simply the definitive version, and Wall Market became so damn fun, among other things.
In retrospect, the whispers feel like they didn’t need to happen. They’re almost baffling in a way. But they also give the game a lot of potential, and it won’t be clear if they were a good choice until the later installments happen. That’s actually the case with a lot of Remake’s controversial things: decisions made in the later games will change perceptions greatly. Right now? They’re an open book, and one I’m intrigued by.
All in all, I like the game a lot even with its shortcomings. I feel like I haven’t touched enough on the highs of the game, but they’re certainly there.
In regard to the game’s reception: I’m not sure why people had the expectation that it would revolutionize the industry. It didn’t really set out to do that, and it still single-handedly boosted Final Fantasy’s image around the world. Then people beat it and moved on, but it’s still in the public consciousness way more than it was before. (VII was...”sleeping but always there,” before)
I think the remakes strongest point are really the main characters, as soon as they had to take a step back for the plot the game became less enjoyable. If they are smart they keep focusing on them instead of their epic new story.
I suspect what people hate most about Chadley is that he's an anime trope. He's also a bit stilted like a CC character which would probably bring back bad memories for a lot of people. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a correlation between hating him and hating the "anime grunts" (which I honestly don't notice).
Really though, excellent post. I completely agree with you point about the maps. For how big and expansive they were, and how lovely the details were, I feel like it all kind of just blends together for me. On repeat playthroughs I still find myself getting lost in Sector 7 and Wall Market because the layouts are confusing and the areas blend together when you're just barreling around chasing a waypoint icon. I think the only reason that didn't happen for me in sector 5 was because it's on a hill, making it easier to keep tack of your location based on elevation. I think part of the issue is that the camera is always just behind Cloud's back for the most part, it's never framed in such a way as to "create a picture" so to speak. In the original the camera could be pulled way back, Cloud just being a little speck in a much bigger picture. It helped create a sense of place, could set the mood for scene (climbing down into the belly of the first reactor, the unnerving dutch angle of the Shinra Mansion basement) and it also just made navigation easier. VIIR is not the sort of game that would benefit from pre-rendered backgrounds or fixed camera angles, but I do think something was lost in the transition.
Great post on the maps @Prism. I couldn't really find the words as to why I found the environments so profoundly underwhelming, despite how well Midgar was recreated. I chalked it up to a difference in direction - they wanted to make the city feel more cramped and oppressive, rather than a place full of secrets and mysteries. I really like how you break it down.
(also I love Chadley and didn't really think the textures were that big of a deal)
It's far less frustrating and time consuming to "peel off layers" of Midgar when it's 2D and on a static background map, versus trying to navigate a fully 3D environment with massively high res environments, backgrounds and textures that can turn you around and get you plum ass lost. It's no different than real life and being dropped in the middle of the strip in Las Vegas at night with all the lights, movement, people and noise. It's sensory overload, to a degree.
Mini-maps, quest markers, and arrows/barriers are necessary now. That's a consequence of modern RPG level design that's meant to streamline and ease navigation for... directionally challenged players. I tried several portions of the game blind, to not rely on the mini-map and "take in" certain areas. Specifically the underplate, the abandoned factory of Midgar, Wall Market and Sector 5. All those areas had lots of explorability and things to find hidden in their areas, for sure. Wall Market especially. You could find all sorts of characters doing shady shit, like talking about how certain people needed to be disposed of at the behest of Choco-Sam, or a guy getting shaken down for "protection/insurance" money. Or the dude who was harassing a woman for a trading card from ice cream. The problem is.... People who are directionally challenged can get plum lost in the entirety of the intricate high res locations.
You sorta need that type of accessibility navigation to make areas not so... Overwhelming. The price of such realistic graphics and massive 3D design with freely controlled camera angles is it becomes horrifyingly easy to get lost in some areas. I fucking nearly lost my shit trying to find some of the lights in the underplate because it got so confusing, even with the map. There's a fuckton to discover in there and other areas... But you also can just get horribly frustrated being lost and need to put the game down to rub your eyes.
It's far easier to "explore" in the OG because you've got static camera angles and 2D. It's not quite the same comparison when you've got a free camera, 3D, and so much features to take in at once.
I have no issue with mini maps, but the level design is definitely more maze like than it needs to be based on other modern games I’ve played. It should be easier to correct mistakes than having to practically renavigate the entire board. Wallmarket was particularly frustrating in this way. That being said, if they were going for a serious fire hazard vibe, being the slums and all, they definitely pulled it off.
I played with the minimap off the whole time, and enjoyed learning how to get around the kinda-complex maps. The quest markers mostly didn't bother me except for the "The Mayor" bit, because it seemed to completely invalidate that whole 'puzzle', lol. They describe what he would probably look like and then, "Oh, it's the marked guy."
The most annoying thing about Chadley for me was that summons have always been pretty much my favourite element tied to final fantasys and he tainted them for me in this game. I dont know why but it just mean a lot for me to find them organically in the world, imagine getting KOTR via a shitty simulator rather than the way we got it before....though the thought of fighting all those knights to "prove" our worth to yield them I would actually enjoy as long as it was not by a VR simulator.
I don't think it's indicative of how the summons will be handled throughout the remake. It was merely a way to get the iconic ones involved in the Midgar part of the story.
And really, the summons were never particularly lore-important in VII's world anyway.
Still waiting to play the PC version of the game...
Which I hope isn't coming out in April like it originally did... because that's when the NieR Remaster comes out and comparing FF7R with NieR is like comparing apples and oranges when it comes to story quality.
I don't think it's indicative of how the summons will be handled throughout the remake. It was merely a way to get the iconic ones involved in the Midgar part of the story.
And really, the summons were never particularly lore-important in VII's world anyway.
Still waiting to play the PC version of the game...
Which I hope isn't coming out in April like it originally did... because that's when the NieR Remaster comes out and comparing FF7R with NieR is like comparing apples and oranges when it comes to story quality.
I mean, if you're looking for a tight, resolved, self-contained and narratively satisfying story then absolutely. Nier is gonna outperform FFVII-R by leaps and bounds. But at this point, everyone knows that FFVII-R and it's companions aren't even trying to accomplish those goals individually. FFVII-R is a long haul serial story. It's like comparing a pulp serial or extended comic book saga to a single long fiction novel. They're just totally in different leagues doing completely different things.
And that's perfectly fine to me. The OG is more in line with Nier's kind of storytelling experience since it is a single contained story. It's an already complete and total game experience and not a multigame serial series remake that has to tease out it's storyline across several games. However, what they all have in common is they are extremely entertaining with highly memorable characters, moments and are pinnacles for what they intrinsically are. But, yes, Nier (Automata or Replicant/Gestalt) is going to be far more satisfying as games due to the fact they're totally complete, self contained and resolved. FFVII-R however, is a long-form experience that if properly implemented can do something entirely different and reach heights that could exceed even that. It just depends on how that journey from now to the end goes.
Ironically, I played Nier Automata after FFVII-R and fell in love with it. The experiences between those two games were far different, but they were both extremely entertaining and memorable. N: Automata is easily one of my favorite games I've ever played. FFVII-R is Part 1 of what might be, pending other installments yet to be released, my most favorite series I've ever played.
Okay I must admit I'm mildly irked by the way the underplate doesn't line up visually with the slums. Running back to Aerith's house to check out the ruins of Sector 7, the completely empty section is right over Wall Market (sector 6) and the sector next to S6 (S7) has an intact plate. I do feel they could have been more careful with something so important.
Okay I must admit I'm mildly irked by the way the underplate doesn't line up visually with the slums. Running back to Aerith's house to check out the ruins of Sector 7, the completely empty section is right over Wall Market (sector 6) and the sector next to S6 (S7) has an intact plate. I do feel they could have been more careful with something so important.
I posted a bunch of pics or the reddit sub for ffviiremake and made the case that the so-called misalignment is an illusion because of how high the plate is, or some weird camera stuff. If you watch Aerith climbing the ladder in chapter 9, the camera does a pan shot that helps you understand the plate is really in the correct spot. But yeah... not a huge deal.
Alright... it's been already 6 months, eh?
Overall, I'm very happy I got to play this game. I had personally wished for a remake for years, and I'm very pleased with what they've done. On my first playthoughs I'd have given it a 9/10 and now I'd give it a ... 9/10
FF7R gave me the possibility to reconnect with the characters and this universe - that is what I had been hoping for, and for me it's been a treat. In particular, I've been really thrilled about how the characters were fleshed out, both visually and in their interactions. What really pleasantly surprised me was how much fun I had with the gameplay: after 6 playthroughs, I didn't find it going stale - it's very dynamic, spectacular and strategic, with each character moveset bringing its own flavour.
I think I keep a fairly holistic outlook on it. The game has moments of awesome and a few moments of cringe, but to me the good far outweighs the bad and the overall experience has been a blast. I do not think it is fair to compare the game to the OG and come to a conclusion that "it's better" or "it's worse" - each was the product of its time, and as a gamer (or even as a person) I'm not the same now as I was back then. I think that FF7R tends to be judged more detrimentally as time goes by because we tend to dwell on how the game could have been made better.
Regarding some of the controversial elements:
- I made my peace with the Whispers and the ending, even though I did not enjoy them initially. I'm betting that the ending is designed to make sense only once we've played the future installments, so I've simply decided to wait and see.
- I did not like Chadley-the-fusion-of-Chad-and-Bradley at first, but he eventually grew on me. Understanding that he was meant to look out of place helped.
My probably unique fangasm: when entering the Sector 7 slums item shop and realizing how closely it resembled its OG counterpart.
I'm both excited and apprehensive about the future installments, as it seems like all bets are off. I think my biggest fear is that the whole project either gets canned partway through or isn't given the resources to be completed properly.
As far as a Remake, I sure wish it had been a Remake. Every time I thought I was about to watch a familiar scene updated, I got a mouthful of Whispers and Destiny and Time Travel. Each sequence I looked forward to had me moving to-and-then-from the edge of my seat until that absolute faceplant of a finish. The script fuckin sucked, and that stung, cause the original has one of video games' best scripts. The writers were clearly passionate and well-intentioned, and the majority seems to love the surprise sequel twist, I'm of the opinion that it was moldy dog food. It was hard not to skip the cutscenes on my first playthrough.
As the latest entry in the Compilation, it's far and away the best one yet. For the main character's visual design, they took an "if it ain't broke" approach and actually gave me characters I enjoyed looking at. Familiar locations were updated with amazing HD graphics -- I loved the mazelike nature of the slum towns, the sterile gloom of the Upper Plate. Monsters from the original were lovingly brought to life with new abilities and a combat system that was weighty, pulp action glory, like somehow all the color and all the coolness of 90s video games had come to kick the balls off of brown-rocks-2020 gaming. The materia system was great, the characters all played different and felt good, the combat overall was just great.
There was lots to love about FF7R, but ultimately, as Shad said, it wasn't just a disappointment, it was a heartbreak. I'm looking forward to what the modding community does with it.
As far as a Remake, I sure wish it had been a Remake. Every time I thought I was about to watch a familiar scene updated, I got a mouthful of Whispers and Destiny and Time Travel. Each sequence I looked forward to had me moving to-and-then-from the edge of my seat until that absolute faceplant of a finish. The script fuckin sucked, and that stung, cause the original has one of video games' best scripts. The writers were clearly passionate and well-intentioned, and the majority seems to love the surprise sequel twist, I'm of the opinion that it was moldy dog food. It was hard not to skip the cutscenes on my first playthrough.
This. As a Remake, it was Twin Snakes but worse--and a huge missed opportunity. In ten years, there's a good chance people will be crying out for another remake over a remaster of this one.
Some of the additions were good. I liked a lot of the character work. Hating the Whisper stuff isn't all about purism
But the story problems it does have are more fundamental than the Whispers. For instance: its cavalier approach to mortality.
You can tell it was written by a very different team--not literally, in terms of directors, but any creator can tell you that something you created twenty years ago may as well have been created by someone else.
It looked nice. In general, it nailed the flash side of things. Some weird elements, though, like bright slums (explained in-world, I know, but still) and the NPCs looking like they're from a different game.
It's waaaaay over-padded. Sidequests are brutal on its pacing, in places.
The use of music was sometimes genius. The Jenova theme tease was executed to perfection.
Struggling to forgive them for Wall Market's tune.
Did they even miss a single monster?? I was expecting CC levels of "streamlining" when it came to enemies. Was so good to see them all.
Happy to report that they are all accounted for, and some new variants on top of that. Sweepers had Cutters, Monodrives had those deliciously difficult Mark IIs. Deenglows had a more mundane drake enemy, and Shinra had firefighters! I particularly loved the Shinra firebats exterminating the grashtrikes (and mumbling about how their job sucked) -- that's just good dungeon design.
I mean... I can give them Biggs. I don't really think there's anything lost in his dodging a bullet. If they use him in some way that's greater than him being simply a plot device for Barret's growth, that might be meritorious.
....As for Zack, he remains to be seen but I'm willing to bet both my kidneys he's gonna end up dead again, once this is over. Square isn't gonna erase the most memorable death next to Aerith from their most popular IP's brand. Nevermind creative integrity, that's just plain stupid business. It's Sci-fi Twilight Zone AU stuff, it could work interestingly enough if done right and resolved properly.
Can't think of anything el-
....
Oh. LOL yeah I definitely don't subscribe to the... Fringe theory a certain other AVALANCHE member is still alive and it's telegraphed by some fucking misunderstood kanji glove desk placement shit. That's bonkers. That'd be insanely stupid, she's dead and even Nomura was shocked at her popularity. Sorta tells me he saw her as one and done and was shocked at her brief impact.
That'd be insanely stupid, she's dead and even Nomura was shocked at her popularity. Sorta tells me he saw her as one and done and was shocked at her brief impact.
