LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
I know SMM is an NPC, but he's an OC NPC, so I naturally care about him.
SPOILERS Half a year later. What are your thoughts?
- Thread starter cold_spirit
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Odysseus
Ninja Potato
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- Ody
Cait's appearance is definitely going to be an "ooooooooooohhh" moment for new player once the pieces fall in place later (or if they just play the original after the remake, which many have) but it's really silly as is, especially since nothing as whimsical as a living cartoon cat had appeared in the game up to that point.
At least square can sell you a $70 plush now
At least square can sell you a $70 plush now
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Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
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- Smooth Criminal
I mean by that note, every NPC can be an OC depending on how you look at them, or rather how much you want to pay attention to their differentiation.
How much their story impacts or makes you care about them, is certainly determined by how much they rise to the surface to separate themselves from the rabble of others in the crowd of other NPCs.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Sorry I meant OG NPC
Decided I want to elaborate more on one thing I dislike about the remake thinking back.
I've heard people praise the characters, and while I agree for Barret, Tifa, and to a certain extent Cloud. I DON'T like remakes portrayal of Aerith.
Here is the thing, I think Aerith doesn't behave like she did in the original, this is clear to most people apparently, since her strange behavior is one of the reasons people assume she knows the future. So either this is intentional, and I don't like it, or it was a mistake, and I don't like it.
In the original, Aerith really comes across as "just some girl", you really feel like you're discovering her destiny alongside her. Aerith is down to earth, girly, and the only hint she gives off that she's different is that she's just a ray of sunshine basically in an otherwise bleak Midgar, her personality sets her apart before her Ancient heritage ever does. Honestly, the closest thing we get to that Aerith is the Aerith we see as a child where she's telling Tseng that she doesn't hear voices.
But throughout FFVII it feels like she's coming into her role as an ancient more, although right up until the end she seems like an unsure girl.
Then AC happens and she becomes this more traditional "I have transcended and know more than I am letting on and speak all sagelike and dreamy".
But in the remake, she seems like that from the very first second you see her, she never comes across as just a random flower girl, from the first moment she's this mysterious magical girl who speaks in riddles and is withholding information. I feel like I have post AC Aerith with me, and it takes away from the experience of getting to know Aerith the way you did in the original.
So I assume this is intended and is happening BECAUSE Aerith is actually post AC Aerith, but if this is just supposed to be Aerith acting how they imaged FF7 Aerith would act, then I think it misses the mark.
One of the reasons this bothers me is that with Aerith as just some girl, she feels like a part of our party of misfits. Right now in remake she doesn't, she feels like a questgiver. Cloud/Tifa/ and Barret feel like they're going along with Aerith, instead of them as a group of 4 following Sephiroth. Which is what's actually happening because Aerith explicitly asks them to join her on her quest. I find it weird AF.
I've heard people praise the characters, and while I agree for Barret, Tifa, and to a certain extent Cloud. I DON'T like remakes portrayal of Aerith.
Here is the thing, I think Aerith doesn't behave like she did in the original, this is clear to most people apparently, since her strange behavior is one of the reasons people assume she knows the future. So either this is intentional, and I don't like it, or it was a mistake, and I don't like it.
In the original, Aerith really comes across as "just some girl", you really feel like you're discovering her destiny alongside her. Aerith is down to earth, girly, and the only hint she gives off that she's different is that she's just a ray of sunshine basically in an otherwise bleak Midgar, her personality sets her apart before her Ancient heritage ever does. Honestly, the closest thing we get to that Aerith is the Aerith we see as a child where she's telling Tseng that she doesn't hear voices.
But throughout FFVII it feels like she's coming into her role as an ancient more, although right up until the end she seems like an unsure girl.
Then AC happens and she becomes this more traditional "I have transcended and know more than I am letting on and speak all sagelike and dreamy".
But in the remake, she seems like that from the very first second you see her, she never comes across as just a random flower girl, from the first moment she's this mysterious magical girl who speaks in riddles and is withholding information. I feel like I have post AC Aerith with me, and it takes away from the experience of getting to know Aerith the way you did in the original.
So I assume this is intended and is happening BECAUSE Aerith is actually post AC Aerith, but if this is just supposed to be Aerith acting how they imaged FF7 Aerith would act, then I think it misses the mark.
One of the reasons this bothers me is that with Aerith as just some girl, she feels like a part of our party of misfits. Right now in remake she doesn't, she feels like a questgiver. Cloud/Tifa/ and Barret feel like they're going along with Aerith, instead of them as a group of 4 following Sephiroth. Which is what's actually happening because Aerith explicitly asks them to join her on her quest. I find it weird AF.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
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- Ite
I completely agree. The reason I haven’t been heard screaming about it more is that a) it’s ultimately a symptom of the larger Whisper Destiny problem, and b) I expected it, as her portrayal in every entry besides the OG has been ”mystical angel” and people seem to eat it up, so while I find it really bland I didn’t expect them to do anything except lean into that widespread, explicitly cultivated, and positively reinforced role she’s found herself stuck in.
Having both her introduction scenes slap you with portents of her death really ruined Aeris for me before she even joined the party. I was also a bit cheesed that they seemed to give a lot of her brass and Earthly savviness to Jessie, so that she had nothing to distinguish herself except the manic pixie dream girl role. I wasn’t charmed by her in the least.
Having both her introduction scenes slap you with portents of her death really ruined Aeris for me before she even joined the party. I was also a bit cheesed that they seemed to give a lot of her brass and Earthly savviness to Jessie, so that she had nothing to distinguish herself except the manic pixie dream girl role. I wasn’t charmed by her in the least.
looneymoon
they/them
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- Rishi
I still liked diet coke Aerith, though I'm pretty sure I have slight dependence on aspartame. Something about Tifa didn't excite me as much, but I think that's just because I am not as charmed by her voice actor.
I simp 4 Briana White
I simp 4 Briana White
ForceStealer
Double Growth
Whether she's like she is in the OG or not, I don't find her Remake portrayal to be this at all.
Odysseus
Ninja Potato
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- Ody
I found Remake Aerith much more charming and human than she's been portrayed since the OG. She had a lot of fun moments "I'm someone, nice to meet you!" "You're a star!" "Aerith to Cloud!" "*terrified horse nois- I mean, Corneo laugh impression*" and the legendary chairith moment. Her being a plot device only really happened in chapter 17 and 18.
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
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- TresDias
Yeah, I absolutely adore Aerith in the remake. Like, maybe more than anyone else in the game? I don't know how they did what they did precisely, but they really, really sold me on her this time around. I've always appreciated her character, but they really got me to appreciate her as more than that.
I got annoyed by her in Chapter 18, of course, when the plot gets weird af -- but that's more down to the role thrust on her there to vaguely exposit when the destiny sub-plot unexpectedly T-bones us in the last stretch.
I got annoyed by her in Chapter 18, of course, when the plot gets weird af -- but that's more down to the role thrust on her there to vaguely exposit when the destiny sub-plot unexpectedly T-bones us in the last stretch.
I love remake Aerith more than any other character. I don't think her portrayal really changed, but her role did, and it's mostly the portrayal that I enjoyed. Just seeing her live like a normal girl, and enjoy living that way in the midst of all the craziness... I don't know, there's just something special about it.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
One of the things I enjoyed about "The Kids Are Alright" was that Kyrie wasn't a big fan of Aerith the way everyone else in the Sector 5 slums seems to be. The way she's universally adored for being so gosh-darn nice and helpful is a bit Mary Sue-ish; but at the same time, I did get the impression she was only allowing these people to see an edited version of her full self. In the novella, Kyrie called her "creepy" for foreseeing the death of Kyrie's parents. That seemed right. I do like the feisty edge Aerith has in the remake, when she stops pretending to be your super-kind Mary Sue next door and takes up a chair to whack people.
a_apple 2.0
Pro Adventurer
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- a_apple
I guess I go against the stream here, but to me remake Aerith was a very weak character. It's like when you play a pen and paper game and there is that one dude who gives his OC every character trait ever, that's remake Aerith to me.
ff7r deals much more with all the hardship she went through and in the end it all just boils down into making her more positive and empathetic, there are no real consequences to anything she endured in her life, it's like she is always everything and nothing at the same time
-She is super playful and just wants to have fun and not think about all that serious stuff, but at the same time she dealt her entire life with Shinra/voices has terrifying knowledge of the future and literally carries the world on her shoulders without a complain
-She can be stubborn and bossy but only in a adorable way <3
-She is the last of a super special magic race but also just a a normal girl who is enjoying life uwu
-She is a weirdo who can talk with flowers and was alone and isolated for a huge part of her childhood which makes her different and lonely but at the same time she is super social and outgoing, works in a orphanage helps out as a waitress and is just loved by literally everyone in sector 5
-She went through emotional and physical torture but she is still the most cheerful, trusting, happy and optimistic person in the entire game just because
-She knows she will die but that's totally okay
-She is suppose to be a poor slum girl but lives in a place that looks like it's straight out of a Disney movie
-She is suppose to be homely looking but just with a little make over she becomes a 10/10
-She has the innocents of a child even though she saw her mother die after years of abuse and torture
-She needs a bodyguard but she also doesn't
-She doesn't have to get to know people to build a relationship with them, she gets all her knowledge from the Planet ;^)
-She might be a time traveler
-One second she is afraid of ghosts and the next she plays hide and seek with them
-She is able to give people access to the script of ff7 by just touching them
-She is ready to die for humanity and their sins because that's her responsibility as a Cetra etc
It's like somebody hit on all the positive personality trait checkboxes while making a new character. I mean, maybe you could argue that goes for her original self too, but og Aerith didn't start out like that. She was a fun loving young woman who slowly accepted who she really is and who grew into her role as the last Ancient through her journey. There was a character progression happening with her. She also had some negative aspects to her personality, which made her much more human and relatable, which ff7r Aerith is absolute void of.
The new version is as inoffensive as it gets.
Which doesn't mean that she is unlikable, quite the opposite, way more people like this Aerith over the old version, but I would argue that her original self is a much stronger character.
I really wish that the ending would have led to her making a decision for everyone else, like her being the one who decided to go after Seph which than would have lead to unforeseen consequences, kinda like a Superman thing where the conflict stems from a moral dilemma, she knows more than anyone else, so why wouldn't she think that she knows best? Or her going against destiny just because she is actually afraid to die or because she feels bitter about the fact that she has to be a sacrificed. Give her some humanity SE.
But nope, everything she does is out of love, responsibility and kindness. That's just too much for me.
ff7r deals much more with all the hardship she went through and in the end it all just boils down into making her more positive and empathetic, there are no real consequences to anything she endured in her life, it's like she is always everything and nothing at the same time
-She is super playful and just wants to have fun and not think about all that serious stuff, but at the same time she dealt her entire life with Shinra/voices has terrifying knowledge of the future and literally carries the world on her shoulders without a complain
-She can be stubborn and bossy but only in a adorable way <3
-She is the last of a super special magic race but also just a a normal girl who is enjoying life uwu
-She is a weirdo who can talk with flowers and was alone and isolated for a huge part of her childhood which makes her different and lonely but at the same time she is super social and outgoing, works in a orphanage helps out as a waitress and is just loved by literally everyone in sector 5
-She went through emotional and physical torture but she is still the most cheerful, trusting, happy and optimistic person in the entire game just because
-She knows she will die but that's totally okay
-She is suppose to be a poor slum girl but lives in a place that looks like it's straight out of a Disney movie
-She is suppose to be homely looking but just with a little make over she becomes a 10/10
-She has the innocents of a child even though she saw her mother die after years of abuse and torture
-She needs a bodyguard but she also doesn't
-She doesn't have to get to know people to build a relationship with them, she gets all her knowledge from the Planet ;^)
-She might be a time traveler
-One second she is afraid of ghosts and the next she plays hide and seek with them
-She is able to give people access to the script of ff7 by just touching them
-She is ready to die for humanity and their sins because that's her responsibility as a Cetra etc
It's like somebody hit on all the positive personality trait checkboxes while making a new character. I mean, maybe you could argue that goes for her original self too, but og Aerith didn't start out like that. She was a fun loving young woman who slowly accepted who she really is and who grew into her role as the last Ancient through her journey. There was a character progression happening with her. She also had some negative aspects to her personality, which made her much more human and relatable, which ff7r Aerith is absolute void of.
The new version is as inoffensive as it gets.
Which doesn't mean that she is unlikable, quite the opposite, way more people like this Aerith over the old version, but I would argue that her original self is a much stronger character.
I really wish that the ending would have led to her making a decision for everyone else, like her being the one who decided to go after Seph which than would have lead to unforeseen consequences, kinda like a Superman thing where the conflict stems from a moral dilemma, she knows more than anyone else, so why wouldn't she think that she knows best? Or her going against destiny just because she is actually afraid to die or because she feels bitter about the fact that she has to be a sacrificed. Give her some humanity SE.
But nope, everything she does is out of love, responsibility and kindness. That's just too much for me.
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a_apple 2.0
Pro Adventurer
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- a_apple
I guess what I tried to say was that I liked her before more
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Aerith is lying when she says she is talking to the flowers. She's talking to the Planet. If the Planet now speaks through its flowers, that's something the Remake added in. I wouldn't put it past them.
Kathy 202, I agree with you, and for me that's the strongest evidence that we're in some kind of time loop here and this Aerith is post AC Aerith pretending to be OG Aerith.
Tifa puts on a show for people too. All three of them, Tifa, Aerith, Cloud, have false fronts. As one would expect, in human beings so traumatised. Cloud's the only one 100% convinced that he's being his true self.
Kathy 202, I agree with you, and for me that's the strongest evidence that we're in some kind of time loop here and this Aerith is post AC Aerith pretending to be OG Aerith.
Tifa puts on a show for people too. All three of them, Tifa, Aerith, Cloud, have false fronts. As one would expect, in human beings so traumatised. Cloud's the only one 100% convinced that he's being his true self.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
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- The Engineer
What saves Tifa from being "too perfect" is that she doesn't know how to handle Cloud's memory issues. It's something she doesn't know what to do with and her not dealing with them is already causing issues in the Remake... and we know it will cause more issues further down the line from the OG. Cloud's incorrect memories are something she doesn't want to handle because they are a legitimately hard issue and she inevitably makes mistakes when working out how to deal with them (or rather not deal with them).
Aerith... Aerith feels like Aerith post-Temple of the Ancients. Which... in the OG is after she has had her character development of "figuring out what it means to be a Cetra". I honestly don't know what they could do with Aerith's (personal) character development as she feels... "finished" already. Except for her Love Interest, but that really doesn't count as "character development". If I had to give her an archtype in Remake... it would be that of the Prophetess or Oracle... someone whose character revovles around them receiving words from the gods and giving it to other people... with "the gods" being the Planet and Future in this case.
Actually... it's not quite true that I can't see Aerith having "charcter development" in the Remake. What I can see happening with Aerith is an inverse of her OG character arc. Aerith's OG character arc is how the girl who has a lot of good reasons to want to be normal accepts the part of herself that isn't normal... and ends up using that to save the world. Remake Aerith's character mainly revolves around her being "not normal". I could see Remake Aerith's arc being about her accepting the part of her that is "normal" that wants the same things everyone else wants.
Simply put... in the OG (and even other Compilation titles), I felt like I knew who Aerith was when she wasn't primarily being a Cetra. In the Remake... I'm a lot less sure of who Aerith is when she isn't being a Cetra.
Aerith... Aerith feels like Aerith post-Temple of the Ancients. Which... in the OG is after she has had her character development of "figuring out what it means to be a Cetra". I honestly don't know what they could do with Aerith's (personal) character development as she feels... "finished" already. Except for her Love Interest, but that really doesn't count as "character development". If I had to give her an archtype in Remake... it would be that of the Prophetess or Oracle... someone whose character revovles around them receiving words from the gods and giving it to other people... with "the gods" being the Planet and Future in this case.
Actually... it's not quite true that I can't see Aerith having "charcter development" in the Remake. What I can see happening with Aerith is an inverse of her OG character arc. Aerith's OG character arc is how the girl who has a lot of good reasons to want to be normal accepts the part of herself that isn't normal... and ends up using that to save the world. Remake Aerith's character mainly revolves around her being "not normal". I could see Remake Aerith's arc being about her accepting the part of her that is "normal" that wants the same things everyone else wants.
Simply put... in the OG (and even other Compilation titles), I felt like I knew who Aerith was when she wasn't primarily being a Cetra. In the Remake... I'm a lot less sure of who Aerith is when she isn't being a Cetra.
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
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- Ite
I liked that talking to flowers scene as a way to explore Gaian philosophy, what habits you might form as a half-Cetra. It wasn’t a bad romantic flirty scene either.
...It was the “Don’t fall in love with me” dialogue that made me say “No chance of that lol” But y’all made some great points there.
There’s lots of twitter comics about Aerith and I am loving her attitude in those, so there must be something I missed my first go-round.
...It was the “Don’t fall in love with me” dialogue that made me say “No chance of that lol” But y’all made some great points there.
There’s lots of twitter comics about Aerith and I am loving her attitude in those, so there must be something I missed my first go-round.
LicoriceAllsorts
Donator
Not all characters have to have development. Some characters can remain static, like pole stars around which the others orient themselves.
a_apple 2.0
Pro Adventurer
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- a_apple
I say that goes more for side characters, but making the most important character in a adventure type of story static seems a weird move.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
It's difficult to compare (I know, I say that a lot) because we're looking at text boxes vs fully acted performances.
Remake Aeris spends a lot more time in the slums, we know more about her life there, who she knows, what she does, who she talks to, which we got fairly little of in the OG. I don't think the chair is meaningful to her character, most people would respond similarly in that situation.
Honestly, I think maybe the original Aeris pre Shinra building plot doesn't quite work, Aeris very quickly decides that this random stranger falling from the sky is completely trustworthy and is willing to infiltrate somewhere like Corneo Manor by herself for the sake of someone she has never met.
One place the remake really shines is in allowing Cloud to spend time with Aeris and Tifa just doing quests and hanging around. Aeris mostly seems like she's realised 'hey, this superpowered handsome dude will do whatever I say' and wants to make the most of it.
And then she sees Tifa and realises 'you don't understand, she's in real trouble here, we have to help'. It hangs together a bit better.
I did find it weird that she wants a bodyguard but won't let the bodyguard harm the people violently kidnapping her.
Remake Aeris spends a lot more time in the slums, we know more about her life there, who she knows, what she does, who she talks to, which we got fairly little of in the OG. I don't think the chair is meaningful to her character, most people would respond similarly in that situation.
Honestly, I think maybe the original Aeris pre Shinra building plot doesn't quite work, Aeris very quickly decides that this random stranger falling from the sky is completely trustworthy and is willing to infiltrate somewhere like Corneo Manor by herself for the sake of someone she has never met.
One place the remake really shines is in allowing Cloud to spend time with Aeris and Tifa just doing quests and hanging around. Aeris mostly seems like she's realised 'hey, this superpowered handsome dude will do whatever I say' and wants to make the most of it.
And then she sees Tifa and realises 'you don't understand, she's in real trouble here, we have to help'. It hangs together a bit better.
I did find it weird that she wants a bodyguard but won't let the bodyguard harm the people violently kidnapping her.
Was it really violent though? In the OG probably, but I didn't get that feeling in the remake. Felt more like some sort of misunderstanding that will now never get cleared up because Cloud decided to let his sword do the talking.
The bodyguard thing in the remake seemed more like something Aerith came up with on the spot to get rid of unwanted company.
Clement Rage
Pro Adventurer
Given that they immediately attack when she doesn't come along willingly, yes.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
I'm not saying this applies to Aerith per se, but I find character exploration often gets criminally ignored among people crying about character development. A character doesn't have to change to be compelling, if the learning about them is interesting enough.
Obsidian Fire
Ahk Morn!
- AKA
- The Engineer
The thing is... I feel like the Cetra are a really important part of the Remake... and Aerith is a Cetra... So I'm more worried that the "character exploration" we will get with Aerith is less "exploring Aerith's character" and more "exploring what the Cetra as a people do". Which is... honestly a problem Aerith's character has always had. So much of Aerith's role is tied up in what the Cetra do vs being what Aerith does.