OdaDaimyO
Conqueror of Sugar
- AKA
- Mochi Lover
Was that already posted? New tidbits from the Nomura Interview: https://www.dualshockers.com/tetsuya-nomura-details-final-fantasy-7-remake/
Highlights from Famitsu
- Thread starter Purple
- Start date
ForceStealer
Double Growth
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
A good summary on how overeagerness for outrage clickbait headlines fuels misinformation. SE having a department that pointed out that Tifa should wear clothes like you'd expect someone with a large chest to wear when working out becomes totally misconstrued on major news sites:
X
X
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
You're right. It's extremely vague. I don't know if this was by design or because they couldn't be bothered but the ambiguity does leave someone a lot of room to fill in the blanks.
Like, right there I already have a different interpretation of that scene.
Zack and Genesis are direct foils to each other who joined SOLDIER for similar reasons, and shared the same dream. They wanted to be heroes, and affirm their worth. The difference between the two was their SOLDIER pride. Genesis felt entitled to being a hero and harbored jealousy for being in Sephiroth's shadow, seeking fame and glory. Zack wished to be a hero but he came to understand that being a hero was more than just being famous and thanks to his mentor and friend, learned being an honorable and heroic SOLDIER came from the heart. This diverging ethos between the two plays into what happens next.
Both Genesis and Zack come to learn the truth about Shinra and are betrayed by the very company they staked their trust in. Genesis chooses to rage at the world and seek vengence against those he felt wronged him, fearing death as it approached. Zack however, remains true to his convictions and refuses to abandon his pride as a hero. He continues to place value in the title of SOLDIER, believing it means more than just the corporate military of Shinra, but is symbolic of protecting the public, and being an honorable warrior. And above all else, he refuses to see himself, Genesis, or Angeal as monsters despite being the products of unethical human experiments. Zack's unwavering optimism and refusal to break as everything he believes in either turns against him or is shown to be a lie is a stark contrast to Genesis' cynical and bitter perspective.
Their contrasting viewpoints clash as Zack doesn't understand how Genesis could stoop so low as hurt people, kill his family, attack the world, and call SOLDIERs "monsters." Likewise Genesis sees Zack as a naive fool who's ignorant of the truth. At first Genesis is driven by rage and belief he can cure his degeneration by allying himself with Hollander. But upon realizing the cure he hoped for was out of reach, Genesis came to believe in one desperate gambit. Reacting LOVELESS and obtaining the "gift of the Goddess."
However, Genesis only saw the "gift" as something that would stave off death and cure him of his malady. He selfishly pulls Zack into his attempt to recreate LOVELESS in hopes of using him to be the "hero" of the play and assemble the cast. However, Zack, honoring Angeal's will and maintaining his pride as a SOLDIER, refused to give up on saving Genesis and staked his life on showing him he wasn't a monster, and being a hero was more than fulfilling a play or absorbing the Lifestream.
To Genesis' surprise he loses to Zack. Not only that, but he realizes that Zack may be right in what it means to be SOLDIER and the value of a SOLDIER's pride. When Genesis is confronted by the Goddess, he's rebuked by her. Seemingly scolded over how he has more to learn about being a hero. Yet he's given salvation and his degeneration is cured.
Zack in essence saves him from himself and prevents him from becoming a monster. He shows Genesis that to be a hero is more than just superficial and it's about protecting whats important and being holding onto one's beliefs even when facing death.
Both Genesis and Zack come to learn the truth about Shinra and are betrayed by the very company they staked their trust in. Genesis chooses to rage at the world and seek vengence against those he felt wronged him, fearing death as it approached. Zack however, remains true to his convictions and refuses to abandon his pride as a hero. He continues to place value in the title of SOLDIER, believing it means more than just the corporate military of Shinra, but is symbolic of protecting the public, and being an honorable warrior. And above all else, he refuses to see himself, Genesis, or Angeal as monsters despite being the products of unethical human experiments. Zack's unwavering optimism and refusal to break as everything he believes in either turns against him or is shown to be a lie is a stark contrast to Genesis' cynical and bitter perspective.
Their contrasting viewpoints clash as Zack doesn't understand how Genesis could stoop so low as hurt people, kill his family, attack the world, and call SOLDIERs "monsters." Likewise Genesis sees Zack as a naive fool who's ignorant of the truth. At first Genesis is driven by rage and belief he can cure his degeneration by allying himself with Hollander. But upon realizing the cure he hoped for was out of reach, Genesis came to believe in one desperate gambit. Reacting LOVELESS and obtaining the "gift of the Goddess."
However, Genesis only saw the "gift" as something that would stave off death and cure him of his malady. He selfishly pulls Zack into his attempt to recreate LOVELESS in hopes of using him to be the "hero" of the play and assemble the cast. However, Zack, honoring Angeal's will and maintaining his pride as a SOLDIER, refused to give up on saving Genesis and staked his life on showing him he wasn't a monster, and being a hero was more than fulfilling a play or absorbing the Lifestream.
To Genesis' surprise he loses to Zack. Not only that, but he realizes that Zack may be right in what it means to be SOLDIER and the value of a SOLDIER's pride. When Genesis is confronted by the Goddess, he's rebuked by her. Seemingly scolded over how he has more to learn about being a hero. Yet he's given salvation and his degeneration is cured.
Zack in essence saves him from himself and prevents him from becoming a monster. He shows Genesis that to be a hero is more than just superficial and it's about protecting whats important and being holding onto one's beliefs even when facing death.
That is the pride of a SOLDIER Zack embraced and passed onto Genesis, which is reflected in his own interpretation of the lost final verse of LOVELESS. Genesis wanting to become an "unspoken offering" to protect the world, expresses to me at least, a selfless heroic desire to protect what's around him. Not just vaingloriously seeking approval or adulation from others. And given the creators state Zack passed this pride to Genesis, I can't see the intended takeaway from their final battle in CC being "Genesis now believes it's time to destroy humanity for the sake of the planet because Zack gave me my honor back! And now that means 'kill all the humans!'"
Why else would the writers point out and frame the DC secret ending as a complete 180 from its initial depiction and say that upon playing CC, one would then interpret it in a completely different way? That's intentional to me.
If they wanted to portray Genesis as some new looming big bad upon DC's end, they would have never tried to connect Genesis to Zack in such a positive way or play up his supposed growth. Why would they do that?
And given how the writers don't frame Genesis as a future upcoming antagonist or major character that they will shed light on or expose any further, I really don't see him showing up again. Not as a primary antsgonist, at least.
You're right, one would have to look carefully at the context and not just take it at face value. But Genesis has regained his pride as a SOLDIER thanks to Zack. A character who does take the title of "hero" seriously and in the positive sense. Genesis abandons his desire for revenge and eschews working with the Tsviets to fight Shinra. He opts to give himself over as a protector in hopes of being there to help if there's ever a crisis.
I don't think given Genesis' role as a foil to Zack and someone who's stated to have regained his honor thanks to him, they'd erase that growth by just making him a villain once again. Even if it were for the sake of the planet, it'd still contradict the entire point of what Zack's pride stood for.
To be fair, that wasn't the true Omega, but a warped and corrupted version that was awoken prematurely. It would have needlessly ended the planet's life rather than save it from the destruction. With that in mind, one could argue Vincent actually fulfilled his role as Chaos according to the true will of the planet, and put Omega back to sleep as it should have been.
Genesis waking up due to the chaos that erupted above him doesn't mean he sees humans as a threat. Nor does that equate him to a Weapon. In the end he's still mortal. A SOLDIER 1st class. Why would he suddenly adopt the Planet's black and white thinking? He can wish to protect the planet in the sense of a mortal, since that's what he is. He hasn't metamorphisized into something akin to the planet itself.
Well that's what one would think if looking at DC's secret ending in a vacuum. But given Crisis Core, the writers' own answers, and the emphasis on his supposed change upon regaining his SOLDIER pride, it really doesn't appear that they're setting up Genesis for more villainy or world turmoil.
He really could be trying to bring Weiss along for a ride to help the world and give Weiss a second chance at being a hero
And regarding Minerva, she's not quite on the same level of a deity one would expect. She's not certainly not like a Fal'cie or an overarching force that controls mortals from above. She's akin to a super-summon. A representation of the collective will of the Lifestream itself. And really, given how the planet judged humanity as fit to exist and worth saving via Holy, I'm not inclined to believe she or the planet is on course to judge humanity a threat worthy of destruction due to subduing a corrupted and prematurely awakened Omega.
The writers didn't know that but compare how they spoke of "G" after Dirge of Cerberus and Genesis after Crisis Core. They speak of the future with G and showcasing him more, but that perspective is missing in the discussion about Genesis within Crisis Core. They don't hint at any further use or revelations regarding his character and look where we are 12 years later.
Rather than anything new for the Compilation of FFVII utilizing the plot thread of Genesis, we're seeing a remake of FFVII that will take at minimum 6 years.
How can I not think the writers have purposefully left Genesis's fate as ambiguous as the play he's so obsessed with?
NeithOF
Rookie Adventurer
- AKA
- Nathan
https://twinfinite.net/2019/06/final-fantasy-vii-remake-famitsu/A good summary on how overeagerness for outrage clickbait headlines fuels misinformation. SE having a department that pointed out that Tifa should wear clothes like you'd expect someone with a large chest to wear when working out becomes totally misconstrued on major news sites:
X
This is also a very correct translation, the author was assisted by a Japanese native speaker.
It's sad that big sites did a quick google translate and posted their crappy translations as bullet points just for the clicks. As if 7R doesn't have enough misinformation going around (constant fake rumors, episodic meme, 2023 release date etc).
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I'm not a fan of how that translator chose to word the key clause in this "controversy" either.
Sure, the sentiment is "make sure that her top wasn't loose," but the wording was 胸部を絞める -- "constrict her chest." This isn't an idiom or euphemism or anything like that, so there's really no basis for this being called an "actual translation" more so than "restrict" was (where "restrict" is understood to refer to physical restriction, not what is permissable).
Sounds like a well-intended obfuscation.
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
From the DualShockers article:
“Square Enix also revealed a slight change to a not particularly massive but still an iconic element of Final Fantasy 7. In the original, Loveless was the name of a fictional epic, whose theatrical adaptation was shown at a theater. In the remake, Loveless is the name of the theater itself.”
How timely considering the Genesis debate here. Hard to have the character without the play, yeah?
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
That doesn't mean LOVELESS doesn't exist.
It means the theatre adaptation isn't being featured. And the theatre is now named after eponymous play. That doesn't really change much.
It means the theatre adaptation isn't being featured. And the theatre is now named after eponymous play. That doesn't really change much.
cold_spirit
he/him
- AKA
- Alex T
That’s literally conjecture on your part. Taking the translated words at face value, Loveless is now a theater. Unless you can provide some confirmation.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
What's it get mentioned once in FF7? In an optional piece of dialogue no less
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
I'm not even seeing where DualShockers is getting this from the Famitsu pages. All I see about LOVELESS is this:
"LOVELESS"の看板を掲げる劇場
オープニングでエアリスが歩いていた、八番街にある劇場。人気の芝居"LOVELESS"を上演しており、その名が付けられた通りもある。
The theatre hoisting the signboard of "LOVELESS"
The theatre in Sector 8 where Aerith was walking during the opening. It hosts the popular play "LOVELESS," and there is also a street named after it.
"LOVELESS"の看板を掲げる劇場
オープニングでエアリスが歩いていた、八番街にある劇場。人気の芝居"LOVELESS"を上演しており、その名が付けられた通りもある。
The theatre hoisting the signboard of "LOVELESS"
The theatre in Sector 8 where Aerith was walking during the opening. It hosts the popular play "LOVELESS," and there is also a street named after it.
Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Nope, that's not conjecture.
A theatre now named after a play, doesn't mean the play doesn't exist.
The name LOVELESS is the name of the historic play in FFVII lore.
Just because that title has been made the name of a theatre instead of a movie adaptation, doesn't automatically mean that the play has been erased entirely from the game. That's just a wholesale leap to conclusion made by the site.
And now, a leap that has no basis in reality. Okay, awesome
X-SOLDIER
Harbinger O Great Justice
- AKA
- X
I definitely promise that this is on topic (and not just because it played an ad for the Remake before the video and also after the video for me), but because I think that a lot of clickbait reporting is all about generating "head lies" via headlines, which is inherently just the worst – and also one of the reasons that I really like the way that we attempt to communicate information on TLS whenever possible.
X
Ite
Save your valediction (she/her)
- AKA
- Ite
Hey wait a minute... so the Loveless play plays at the Loveless theatre on Loveless street? Or is it not the theatre...? (Why do I care?? XD)
At this point, websites know FF7R gets clicks, so get ready for so much of this for the rest of our lives. I second X-SOLDIER: TLS is the place, yo.
At this point, websites know FF7R gets clicks, so get ready for so much of this for the rest of our lives. I second X-SOLDIER: TLS is the place, yo.
Cannon_Fodder
Pro Adventurer
Can you still call it "Loveless" when people keep showing it love by naming things after it? 
The Twilight Mexican
Ex-SeeD-ingly good
- AKA
- TresDias
That is the pride of a SOLDIER Zack embraced and passed onto Genesis, which is reflected in his own interpretation of the lost final verse of LOVELESS. Genesis wanting to become an "unspoken offering" to protect the world, expresses to me at least, a selfless heroic desire to protect what's around him. Not just vaingloriously seeking approval or adulation from others. And given the creators state Zack passed this pride to Genesis, I can't see the intended takeaway from their final battle in CC being "Genesis now believes it's time to destroy humanity for the sake of the planet because Zack gave me my honor back! And now that means 'kill all the humans!'"
Where did they say that Zack's pride passed to Genesis? I'm not finding it.
Mako said:
Could, not would. You're determined to miss that, aren't you? =P
As for why else they might point out that he isn't necessarily malevolent? Well, he probably isn't since he's become a new protector of the planet -- but not malevolent doesn't mean not a threat.
Mako said:
Perhaps they thought it would add complexity to him or his role as an adversary if they did use him again? Why did they have him be such a bland villain in the first place?
Mako said:
What of this?:
An implication of more to shed light on was there at least.
Mako said:
Zack's sacrifice wasn't meant for what Cloud initially did with it, was it? Or what he was doing with it between "Case of Tifa" and "Advent Children"? But that created drama and a sad sense of irony. Something similar may have been on their mind here.
Mako said:
Zirconiade was summoned incomplete, as well as needlessly, and the planet still didn't respond amicably to the Turks destroying it.
Mako said:
As opposed to the rational way of thinking he had before?
Show me that sociopath is even capable of such clarity before asking me to assume his mind is anything more than the myopic wonderland it was before.
Mako said:
I was referring to the planet itself.
Mako said:
I linked you to where the 10th Anniversary Ultimania said the planet had deemed humanity evil, so I'm not convinced it did judge humanity as fit to exist nor that it tried to save them with Holy. =P
Mako said:
Did they speak of showcasing him more? From what I'm able to find, they talked about him less after Dirge came out than they did after CC.
Mako said:Rather than anything new for the Compilation of FFVII utilizing the plot thread of Genesis, we're seeing a remake of FFVII that will take at minimum 6 years. How can I not think the writers have purposefully left Genesis's fate as ambiguous as the play he's so obsessed with?
We're not talking about where the likelihood stands of him showing up again today. We're talking about what sort of wacko he is.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
I like the bit about both Aerith and Tifa's personalities
Lex
Administrator
It's the tenacity to get to the bottom of rumors about FF7 why I came to this site in the first place, so TLS is the gold standard for FF7 news as far as I'm concerned.
....
/hopeless shill
This is exactly what we've been aiming for for years, it's nice to see it bearing some fruit
Now I'm off to write an article about all the post-E3 information we have. I'll include mention of avoiding clickbait and misinformation