Hope, Snow, and Empathy

[Tetsujin]

People generally hate characters who whine - whether their whining is justified or not.

 

[Arianna]

People generally hate characters who whine - whether their whining is justified or not.

Perhaps true, but... Consider yourself in the shoes of Hope, even if he's just a character in a fiction story. How would you react if it was your mother?

I guess I can see these things because I have gone through a lot myself. I've luckily never had a murder of a relative, but - other things, I can empathize.

... At the very least, sympathize.

 

[Glaurung]

A boomerang?! Of all the cool weapons in Final Fantasy XIII - guns, swords, gunswords - why does Hope choose a boomerang?

They expected a boy of 14 to wield a real gun? Or a real sword? He was a civilian, ffs, and a KID! He needed something that could be used as a weapon but without looking that harmful.

Besides, Hope is mostly used to nuke enemies with magic, he doesn't need a supermegacool Sword-of-total-anihilation to do that.

 

[Arianna]

They expected a boy of 14 to wield a real gun? Or a real sword? He was a civilian, ffs, and a KID! He needed something that could be used as a weapon but without looking that harmful.

Besides, Hope is mostly used to nuke enemies with magic, he doesn't need a supermegacool Sword-of-total-anihilation.

I like the boomerang.

 

[Glaurung]

I found it pretty cool. I wish I had one

 

[Arianna]

I found it pretty cool. I wish I had one

Agreed. I would be stepping a good few feet up the ladder of holding my own in a fight.

 

[Zee]

Hope is irritating at first, but aside from the trauma of just losing a mother (and he was obviously really dependent on her) he's sort of manipulated by Lightning. He's still reeling from anger and grief and she literally hands him a knife and says focusing on a target is the best way to deal with grief. If that isn't the worst advice to give someone, idk what is. Of course he'd go along with it.

Not to mention Snow just exacerbates the situation with his idiotic hero speeches. I mean shit, how would you feel?

"Fuck, my mom's dead."
"AHAH SUCKS FOR YOU, I'M GONNA GO START A FAMILY CAUSE I'M A ~HERO~"

i wanted to stab snow in the back myself so i sympathize

 

[LunarSkye]

They're trying to say Hope's weapon is stupid? Doesn't Snow use a coat? Where's his flack?

 

[Arianna]

They're trying to say Hope's weapon is stupid? Doesn't Snow use a coat? Where's his flack?

He has a type of arm band that is his weapon. It magnifies his magic power as well as his physical power - depending on which one is used.

Hope is irritating at first, but aside from the trauma of just losing a mother (and he was obviously really dependent on her) he's sort of manipulated by Lightning. He's still reeling from anger and grief and she literally hands him a knife and says focusing on a target is the best way to deal with grief. If that isn't the worst advice to give someone, idk what is. Of course he'd go along with it.

Not to mention Snow just exacerbates the situation with his idiotic hero speeches. I mean shit, how would you feel?

"Fuck, my mom's dead."
"AHAH SUCKS FOR YOU, I'M GONNA GO START A FAMILY CAUSE I'M A ~HERO~"

i wanted to stab snow in the back myself so i sympathize

Yeah, you got a good point here.

 

[Zee]

They're trying to say Hope's weapon is stupid? Doesn't Snow use a coat? Where's his flack?

AHA seriously. I really didn't realize his coat was the weapon until I saw the patch on his back kept changing.

Not even badass gloves like Tifa, a damn coat. gg snow

 

[Arianna]

AHA seriously. I really didn't realize his coat was the weapon until I saw the patch on his back kept changing.

Not even badass gloves like Tifa, a damn coat. gg snow

It's not the coat, it's an armband on his upper arm that is his 'weapon'. It accentuates his physical and magical (when l'Cie) powers.

 

[Tetsujin]

It's not the coat, it's an armband on his upper arm that is his 'weapon'. It accentuates his physical and magical (when l'Cie) powers.

No, it really is the coat. Some kind of AMP technology thing inside it, at least.

 

[LunarSkye]

Thanks for the correction.

Let me try again.
Hope uses a real legit weapon and gets crap for it, but Snow, who uses an accessory goes by unnoticed. Wtf? XD

EDIT:
Ugh, I'm slow. D:

 

[Celes Chere]

Seriously, Hope has become the new Tidus -- that character who has legitimate reasons to whine when he does but gets derided for it endlessly, and who actually mans up pretty damn big while the fact of it goes ignored. Pretty much exactly like Tidus.

So true. ;-; T-though it's strange because I can't stand Tidus, but I have no problem with Hope. I think it's because Tidus isn't a child, but acts like one a lot of the time. Lol, I remember when Sora made top ten dorks once. Now THAT is definitely true. I can't say I completely hate Tidus to the point where I'd say he's a fail character like ... I dunno, what's a really sucky character by most people's opinions? XD I'd say Rinoa, but I know that a lot of people love her so that doesn't work. Tidus does have his awesome moments, I will admit. And so does Hope, demmit. D=<

I like the boomerang.

I like calling it a banana. xD

And also... Snow isn't my favorite or really close to it, but I didn't mind his character. I never hated him xD. /dodges bricks/ W-what! Same as Hope, he was annoying in the beginning, but got a lot better.

 

[ForceStealer]

Seriously, Hope has become the new Tidus -- that character who has legitimate reasons to whine when he does but gets derided for it endlessly, and who actually mans up pretty damn big while the fact of it goes ignored. Pretty much exactly like Tidus.

Hey now wait a second. Its not Hope's whining that I find so annoying.

Yes, a small part of it is how he spends so much time complaining about Snow but never saying anything - despite having ample opportunity to do so. And then when does he finally bring it up? When they are in a damn city actively being pursued by the freaking military. I mean really? Not when your isolated in a damn forest or safely on the Lindblum, but when standing still will probably get you killed?! And guess what happens, he just about gets them killed. Moron.

But even then, his state of being distraught and "whiny" are justified, I don't fault that. BUT HIS REASON FOR HIS DESIRE TO KILL SNOW ISN'T. I am NOT a Snow fan, he is probably the character I used least in the entire game, but he didn't kill Nora, PSICOM did. And its not like Hope only saw half of the proceedings and jumped to a conclusion, he saw everything that happened. He even watched Snow's reaction to Nora's death ffs!

And as has been mentioned, he himself states that he knows Snow is not to blame but that "he has to blame someone." As I said to Celes, that's fine, I can roll with that, because Snow, in Hope's eyes is being crazy insensitive. (Although there's really no reason Snow should know this, but Hope's a kid, whatever.) But you want to KILL HIM for something he did not do, and you know he didn't do it, but you just need someone to blame so you're going to KILL HIM?!

And then the guy promptly saves your life when his ribs are broken when YOU'RE the one broke them trying to kill him.

Yes, Lightning enabled him, yes he DOES get better. But nothing Tidus ever did compared with this stupidity. And I don't care that he's 14, when he is self-aware enough to know he's wrong he shouldn't still be willing to kill the guy for it. Punch him in the face, kick him in the balls, better still, call him out and make him feel like shit. Don't freaking kill him you psycho.

 

[Max Payne]

'
Seriously, Hope has become the new Tidus -- that character who has legitimate reasons to whine when he does but gets derided for it endlessly, and who actually mans up pretty damn big while the fact of it goes ignored. Pretty much exactly like Tidus.

Except Tidus is actually likeable and useful in battle.

 

[crack]

Snow is my least favorite FFXIII character, but Hope's anger towards him was completely unwarranted. How he thought killing Snow would be a good idea, idk, kid has some convoluted logic.

 

[looneymoon]

AHA seriously. I really didn't realize his coat was the weapon until I saw the patch on his back kept changing.

Not even badass gloves like Tifa, a damn coat. gg snow

I didn't realize... until I read this thread..... : |

What the fuck Snow. If your life had a face, I would punch it. Owait...





I honestly think Snow is the most infuriating character I have encountered in the series. That's saying a lot after Wakka, who at least gets better by the end of the game.

I just... cannot stand Snow in the least bit.

 

[Celes Chere]

But nothing Tidus ever did compared with this stupidity.

His entire dialogue on this boat ride. *gun to head*

Also I love you Lulu

Okay, Tidus never tried killing a guy who was innocent, but he is pretty stupid. And I cannot stand him narrating the story I KNOW THAT'S NOT HIS FAULT JUST SAYING.

(lol 10 edits)

 

[Zee]

I think I'm more forgiving towards Hope because he knocked that shit off halfway through the game and the fact that he's a kid means he's got more chance to grow up and change.

BUT ANYWAY, would some kind soul be able to translate some of the stuff going on in the scan?

Also, any wild mass guessing on the quote?

 

[minimosey]

Hope is irritating at first, but aside from the trauma of just losing a mother (and he was obviously really dependent on her) he's sort of manipulated by Lightning. He's still reeling from anger and grief and she literally hands him a knife and says focusing on a target is the best way to deal with grief.

She influences him, not manipulates--that would imply she WANTED him to pick up the whole revenge thing. She feels bad once she realizes how he took it and explicitly tells him to drop "Operation NORA".

 

[Zee]

She influences him, not manipulates--that would imply she WANTED him to pick up the whole revenge thing. She feels bad once she realizes how he took it and explicitly tells him to drop "Operation NORA".

I really got the impression she, at least initially, did not give two shits if Hope killed Snow. Maybe manipulation isn't exactly the right word, but she was not oblivious to the path she was leading Hope down by saying all that stuff.

It's only later on she realizes giving a knife to a child hellbent on revenge was not the best idea.

 

[Dana Scully]

I can't remember anymore, was Lightning even aware that it was Snow Hope wanted to kill?

 

[minimosey]

I really got the impression she, at least initially, did not give two shits if Hope killed Snow. Maybe manipulation isn't exactly the right word, but she was not oblivious to the path she was leading Hope down by saying all that stuff.

It's only later on she realizes giving a knife to a child hellbent on revenge was not the best idea.

Hope takes these words to heart, and comes up with Operation Nora. Named after
his dead mother, it is the means by which he will exact vengeance upon Snow.

Though he knows it won&#8217;t bring his mother back, it&#8217;s nevertheless something he
needs to do.

Lightning soon realizes her mistake. [...] Regretting her words, Lightning continues on through the Whitewood.

The same section Hope comes up with this idea, Lightning regrets it. Although it does seem like she's a lot more concerned about Hope's well-being than Snow's, yeah.

edit: I'm pretty sure Hope made it clear it was Snow he was angry at. Lightning and him talk about the guy and the group NORA for a bit.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

Guess they didn't finish even half the game. Maybe less than a quarter?

Maybe because they couldn't stand any of the characters.

It doesn't matter how hard you try to justify a character's suffering. If I'm supposed to empathize and I don't, it's more likely the creator's failure than mine.

You can justify Bella Swan's actions until you're blue in the face. She's stilla shitty character.