Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[Ite]

Who are you quoting there, Random Nobody? It sounds like me ten years ago

 

[Random Nobody]

Someone from a thread on Reddit I stumbled into via Google.

 

[Lex]

I posted in that thread a long time ago, that's quite an old OP. They get a couple of things wrong.

 

[Random Nobody]

I'm mostly curious about the assertion that the foreign release was intentionally altered as opposed to being victim to horrible localisation (and how bulls hit that is or is not). Because I am not seeing how that is different from how the story is presented already (besides characterising Jenova as more actively malevolent and self-aware than we know her to be).

 

[Lex]

Because there isn't a big difference.

Honestly it bugs me more than it should because of how much I care about FFVII. Essentially he does hit a few plot points that most casual people miss, and all of a sudden he gets 200+ karma and "WOW MY MIND IS BLOWN" comments. Suddenly he's the gospel guru of FFVII.

Except his post makes a lot of assumptions, all of what he says is discernible or able to be inferred from the English translation under scrutiny, and it was never "dumbed down". That's fucking stupid. But now hundreds of people are walking around going "omg did you know the real story of FFVII was dumbed down for westerners, look check out this post".

Um no it fucking wasn't. It was poorly translated and some of the story becomes a tiny bit unclear because of that. Add to that the fact that the story is a bit complex to begin with, and you have an issue. But it's not like that information is suddenly not already in the English translation, because it's there. You just have to connect the bloody dots. The Japanese version doesn't spell it out for you either.

The fact is that the casual VII fan's version of the story boils down to "wow cool look Sephiroth vs. Cloud, cool music, pretty engaging battle system for the time, sad/ happy character moments, smish smash smosh bad guy is dead" but they're missing the best bit of the experience which is how important Cloud's journey is. They just don't get it. It's so evident when you watch people playing it for the first time that a lot of them just don't get engaged enough in the world/plot and are only playing the game because it's popular, then find something superficial to like about it.

I mean it's a good thing because more sales = good for VII = good for us, but when they go around spreading misinformation from assumptions they've made they come here with those ideas firmly in place and we have to spend time correcting it. Boo-urns to that noise.

 

[cold_spirit]

It's so evident when you watch people playing it for the first time that a lot of them just don't get engaged enough in the world/plot and are only playing the game because it's popular, then find something superficial to like about it.

I desperately wish the environmental themes of FF7 were more discussed and explored by fans and SE. To me that's at the heart of VII's identity. The game weaves a story about our place in the stars, our relation to the planet, and our connection to each other. This is evident in almost every environment in the game. You have cities like Midgar and Junon, where people live lavish lives that are so far removed from the consequences of their consumption. You have villages like Gongaga and North Corel, where people live in huts and are forced to live through the aftermath of those consequences. And you have Cosmo Canyon and Rocket Town, places that try to find the perfect blend of nature and science for the betterment of humanity or the planet (Rocket Town certainly leans more towards science, but I find their ambitions for space travel noble). It's just so damn cool to me and it goes right over most player's heads and certainly hasn't been explored by SE since the original game.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I totally agree with you. I think it's a really fascinating exploration of environmental issues, especially since it doesn't offer any clear or easy answers, and also suggests that maybe the real threat to the planet is humanity itself.

 

[Ite]

Yes yes yessss cold_spirit and Licoriceallsorts spot on forever.

 

[Tashasaurous]

I think we can all agree that the translation in the original game back in 1997 was crap anyway, especially the grammer error in certain parts.

For example: 1-"This guy are sick" Aerith said in the translation.

2-"So Sephiroth discovered he was created five years ago" Vincent said in the translation.

And let's not forget how Elena said that Tseng was dead, but in reality, that again was mistranslated due to the fact that he's very much alive as shown in "Case of ShinRa", "Before Crisis-Final Fantasy VII-Epilogue(during the Midgar evacuation)" and "Final Fantasy VII-Advent Children".

So the translation in the Remake will be much better at least than it was almost 20 years ago. Besides, games back then had no voice actors...well, some did like Dino Crisis, but you get the idea.

 

[Clement Rage]

I prefer not to deal with 'issues' in my gaming myself, but we'll see.

 

[Ite]

I prefer not to deal with 'issues' in my gaming myself, but we'll see.

Strange that you like FFVII then

In terms of how to "focus" on the theme of life and environmental stewardship, the proper way to go about it would be just to make the world as rich and immersive as possible. From what I've seen of FFXV's world exploration this can be easily accomplished by implementing a similar feel to VII's overworld. All of the "commentary" on the "issue" is already there in the story, and even with the poor translation, the original dialogue still manages to stir me. ("This planet's just a little kid." :'D ) The thing left to do is allow players to role-play what it would be like to live in a world consumed by such a dilemma. It was easy to do with VII's graphics back when they were the greatest most immersive visuals evarrr (of 1997) but what I am hoping for with FFVIIR is for the beauty and majesty of nature to, on occasion, take the focus.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Honestly, though, the translation wasn't even all that bad. A grammatical error or misspelling isn't tantamount to a translation error. There are some legitimate errors here and there, but everything integral to the story (Meteor, Jenova, the Lifestream, the Reunion Theory, Holy, Cloud's identity) comes across just fine, and the characters have distinct voices with a lot of flavor.

As for that Reddit post, it's so wrong about so many things, I won't even waste time on it. Though it does sound familiar, so I've probably wasted my time on it once already.

 

[Dashell]

when that kid takes those Jenova cells into his body, Sephiroth comes out.

I just got the weirdest image of Kadaj injecting himself with Jenova and pooping out a Sephiroth


Okay that reddit post... that's... actually what I thought the story WAS the first time I played it. It wasn't until I started posting here a lot when I found out Sephiroth was the one doing all that stuff and not Jenova. ... in fact i think the version HE posted is easier to understand than the other way around. I don't understand all the "WHOA MIND IS BLOWN!"... I mean the main difference in his story vs the real one is that it was Sephiroth who was doing all the manipulation...

Kinda makes me wonder what all these "OMG NO WAI!" people thought the story WAS


The story is a bit complex but as Lex said, it's all there. It just might take a couple playthroughs to figure it all out.


And i'll be honest, I like the "Jenova did it all" better than "Sephiroth did it." Mostly cause I always wondered what would happen to Sephiroth if she was truly defeated.. would he turn back to the way he was before he found her body in Nibelheim?... And so on and so forth.

Essentially he does hit a few plot points that most casual people miss, and all of a sudden he gets 200+ karma and "WOW MY MIND IS BLOWN" comments. Suddenly he's the gospel guru of FFVII.

So basically them dumbing down the plot WAS a good idea

 

[ForceStealer]

The only thing the translation really made unclear was this: that the Cetra were interstellar nomads. The translation makes it sound like the Ancients moved from planet to planet just like Jenova, when in fact that just moved from one region of the planet to another.

That's the biggest important plot point on which the translation is misleading. Whether Sephiroth or Jenova is in charge isn't really dependent on the translation, merely interpretation, and people like Ite and etc are really attached to Jenova being the one in charge. The game itself never really makes this point, but nor does it make the opposite.

I think Jenova and Sephiroth are more united than people treat them. I think Sephiroth was "in charge" because she's been completely out of the picture for 2,000 years. But since Sephiroth was born with her genes, it's hard to say whose influence is which. Advent Children, as much as people hate on it, actually emphasizes this point. Having failed in his initial plan, Sephiroth intends to simply choke the Planet and crash it into another and try again. That sounds a lot like Jenova. But i don't think Jenova is specifically telling him to do this, I simply think it's a natural decision for him to make based on the Jenova that is literally part of his DNA. Her instinct has become his instinct. Whether she consciously did that isn't super relevant.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Yes, perhaps "who is in charge?" is simply the wrong question.

 

[Dashell]

Wait the translation doesn't make it clear? wasn't there a point where Hojo said "It was Sephiroth the whole time" or something?

Or did I imagine that?

 

[jazzflower92]

I actually want Jenova to play a stronger role, and hint that maybe she was a fallen goddess or a Chaos like figure. I don't want her just to be a plot device, I want to feel like she has a reason to be feared like her child.

 

[Lulcielid]

I actually want Jenova to play a stronger role, and hint that maybe she was a fallen goddess or a Chaos like figure. I don't want her just to be a plot device, I want to feel like she has a reason to be feared like her child.

I thought Jenova was genderless?

 

[Octo]

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned Jenova is neither. She/it is nobodies 'mother' We don't even know if it reproduces at all. It's got 'tits' because it was halfway through morphing when it was contained by the Cetra.

The funny thing is, by the time we catch up to Sephiroth in the Northern Crater. Sephiroth already knows that it isn't his mother - he must know this after absorbing all the knowledge in the Lifestream. So why the hell Kadaj and the gang still think of it as 'mother' is a bit bizzare to me. Sephiroth created them so why they would have to have an artificial notion of 'mother' to motivate them to do his bidding is beyond me. I guess they just thought it was more poetic/romantic.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I guess it's their mother in the sense that they carry its genes and have a lot of its abilities? But I also think the whole "mother" thing has something to do with the larger environmental issues. I mean, Jenova could just as easily have been Sephiroth's "father" i.e. gene donator (but then what would that make Hojo?).

Jenova is a bad or false mother, in contrast to the Planet, which is also a mother, i.e. life-giving. One of the things I like about this game is that they don't flog these parallels to death, but they are there.

 

[Roger]

It's more the Hojo having had this theory in mind since before Sephiroth and SOLDIER existed part that's definitely wrong then the Jenova part.

 

[Tashasaurous]

The funny thing is, by the time we catch up to Sephiroth in the Northern Crater. Sephiroth already knows that it isn't his mother - he must know this after absorbing all the knowledge in the Lifestream.

Problem with that is the fact Sephiroth still called Jenova 'Mother' when he briefly came back to life via Kadaj absorbing the remains of Jenova's head.

As Reno had quoted in Advent Children, "Mother, scmother. It's Jenova's friggin' head!"

I actually want Jenova to play a stronger role, and hint that maybe she was a fallen goddess or a Chaos like figure. I don't want her just to be a plot device, I want to feel like she has a reason to be feared like her child.

Maybe she came from Spira via being Yunalasca.

 

[ForceStealer]

Problem with that is the fact Sephiroth still called Jenova 'Mother' when he briefly came back to life via Kadaj absorbing the remains of Jenova's head.

Yeah, but he's saying it in reference, perhaps even mockingly, compared to the way Kadaj hangs on the word.

And as stated above, Jenova's still his mother in a manner of speaking. Had a much greater affect on his development than his biological mother did, after all.

 

[Lord Noctis]

Sephiroth also refers to Jenova as his mother in the temple of the ancients. It may well be that he simply prefers to identify Jenova as his mother rather than some puny human.

He laughs, flies off, and Cloud finds him slumped the altar.
Sephiroth
...Mother... ...It's almost time.
Soon... we will become one.

http://www.yinza.com/Fandom/Script/25.html

 

[Random Nobody]