Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[The Twilight Mexican]

Well in the case of Rufus it was very coherent, which made AC incoherent for bringing him back. I will admit, it isn't really necessary to underline the point, bold it, and have an exclamation point after it....but I don't want them making it ambiguous either, for the sake of maybe bringing him back.

All they need do is render it as they did in the original, because the ambiguity is built in.

Even in the original, you can see his reflection on his desk after he's disappeared from sight in the explosion -- it almost looks like he's been blasted backwards over the desk. The explanation about his survival ended up describing things precisely as that.

Speaking of "bringing him back": wasn't also Don Corneo alive in one of the novellas, despite falling to his death in Wutai?

Rufus surviving can make sense with that secret door in the floor narrative, even if unlikely. But the Don? That one bothers me.

Corneo was still severely injured and permanently crippled by it, though, and he was at least put to good use in "The Kids Are Alright."

 

[FFShinra]

All they need do is render it as they did in the original, because the ambiguity is built in.

Even in the original, you can see his reflection on his desk after he's disappeared from sight in the explosion -- it almost looks like he's been blasted backwards over the desk. The explanation about his survival ended up describing things precisely as that.


Corneo was still severely injured and permanently crippled by it, though, and he was at least put to good use in "The Kids Are Alright."

Needs scars, Rufus does. And I don't mean geostigma either. Actual burn scars. That is assuming he can't just stay dead.

 

[Clement Rage]

The secret door thing always felt kinda pointless to me. The original scene has him face WEAPON unflinching...and then he scuttles of to hide in his super duper panic room? What does that gain over the Turks just climbing the building and finding him at his desk?

Re the rocket, I think why they did it is made clear enough afterwards, when they're on the bridge of the Highwind and the Planet starts screaming in pain. Last time they needed Bugenhagen's equipment to hear it, but it was so badly hurt by losing the Huge Materia that it can now just by heard on their airship by themselves.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The secret door thing always felt kinda pointless to me. The original scene has him face WEAPON unflinching...and then he scuttles of to hide in his super duper panic room? What does that gain over the Turks just climbing the building and finding him at his desk?

For me, that sub-plot added a lot to Rufus's characterization, his father's, and their relationship.

Re the rocket, I think why they did it is made clear enough afterwards, when they're on the bridge of the Highwind and the Planet starts screaming in pain. Last time they needed Bugenhagen's equipment to hear it, but it was so badly hurt by losing the Huge Materia that it can now just by heard on their airship by themselves.

It isn't required that the Huge Materia be lost, though, so this happens either way.

 

[Clement Rage]

I feel like it could be accomplished differently easily enough. He sees the L plate on his desk, next to the keypad, and figures out how to get into the supplies using his birthday the same way.

It isn't required that the Huge Materia be lost, though, so this happens either way.

True, but then the rocket itself just hurts the Planet futilely?

Maybe we could have multiple outcomes. the More Huge Materia you save, the bigger the blast for Meteor is, but the more damaged the Planet is.

 

[jazzflower92]

For me, that sub-plot added a lot to Rufus's characterization, his father's, and their relationship.


It isn't required that the Huge Materia be lost, though, so this happens either way.

So, do you think that Rufus should get more characterization?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

True, but then the rocket itself just hurts the Planet futilely?

How so?

Maybe we could have multiple outcomes. the More Huge Materia you save, the bigger the blast for Meteor is, but the more damaged the Planet is.

Wouldn't the blast be bigger for having extracted fewer Huge Materia?

In either case, I like this idea of having multiple outcomes, but it would require a creative incentive to get players to just sacrifice the Huge Materia rather than retrieve it.

So, do you think that Rufus should get more characterization?

I'm confident that he will (because I expect everyone will), but I think what he got in the original game was sufficient.

 

[jazzflower92]

How so?


Wouldn't the blast be bigger for having extracted fewer Huge Materia?

In either case, I like this idea of having multiple outcomes, but it would require a creative incentive to get players to just sacrifice the Huge Materia rather than retrieve it.



I'm confident that he will (because I expect everyone will), but I think what he got in the original game was sufficient.

I also think he will go back to being an only child again.

 

[FFShinra]

Actually, I wouldn't mind siblings existing myself....but legitimate ones, so that there is some sort of succession crisis subplot within Shinra or something. Or uncles or cousins or.....

 

[jazzflower92]

Actually, I wouldn't mind siblings existing myself....but legitimate ones, so that there is some sort of succession crisis subplot within Shinra or something. Or uncles or cousins or.....

They will probably make President still a horndog. Or make it more clear if his wife is dead or not.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

His wife is definitely dead, according to Case of Shinra.

 

[jazzflower92]

His wife is definitely dead, according to Case of Shinra.

Ok, that settles things.

 

[leadmyskeptic]

Speaking of 'deaths you don't 100% confirm but were pretty damn strongly implied until AC', what's your guys thoughts on Tseng? If I recall correctly, there was some issue about the translation, the English is something like "I'm done for...", with the Japanese implying he was just badly wounded. But I always thought he was fucked. Like with Rufus, I'm not saying they have to like, show his funeral or something, but I prefer him being 'dead'.

 

[ChipNoir]

Speaking of 'deaths you don't 100% confirm but were pretty damn strongly implied until AC', what's your guys thoughts on Tseng? If I recall correctly, there was some issue about the translation, the English is something like "I'm done for...", with the Japanese implying he was just badly wounded. But I always thought he was fucked. Like with Rufus, I'm not saying they have to like, show his funeral or something, but I prefer him being 'dead'.

It's not just that. The way Elena accuses you at Icicle Inn also makes implications as well that can easily confuse the player.

 

[Roger]

With Tseng, you last see him alive, and had made it to the entrance of the pyramid. I assume his helicopter was already on the way while you were talking to him. I'd be happy to consider him alive all along. Don Corneo, Hojo and Rufus, not so much.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Rufus4ever

That's cool that you prefer him being dead. I don't see why he can't be dead to you. It's like this: if they leave it ambiguous, then all the people (like me) who want to believe that Rufus and Tseng and Palmer survived, can happily go on believing it, and all the people who want to believe they bought the big one can believe that. If you insist on making them unambiguously dead, then half the fandom is disappointed. Is that fair? I don't see why we need to insist on these definitive answers. It's like the LTD. So many people demanding to know "but which one does he reeeaaallly love?" and totally ignoring all the other things these two pairings are telling us about relationships. We need to learn to tolerate uncertainty.

 

[Roger]

There's nothing ambigious about Palmer, there's no reason to think he's dead.

 

[trash panda]

If I have learned anything from the fantasy genre, it’s if their heads don’t roll, they ain’t dead...but also they might be, which is irrelevant because they can still come back.

Also, ambiguity leaves room for speculation and debate, which this forum is rife with, and which I love.

P.s. “rife” is a new word for me. Hopefully I used it right. I’m just testing it out to see how I like it.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Most people who get hit head on by a fast-moving truck, die.
Awesome use of the word 'rife'. I think we should all use it more often. And I agree, I love a good debate.

 

[Ite]

That “mistranslation” about Tseng always confuses me. You can say, and believe, you’re “done for,” and then wake up in a hospital bed. It happens, especially when Sephiroth is involved. I thought he was dead because the slice through him that you see in the vision later is very dramatic, and that’s literally the last time he appears in the game.

On the whole, though, it changes the story little, although his absence during the Disc 2 finale coupled with his subordinates calling the shots, might have solidified the idea for a lot of folks going into AC. My grumpiness about Tseng’s survival was really just spillover from Rufus’s unbelievable recovery. Two years later and the guy looks like he’s never had so much as a sunburn. With Tseng there is at least a precedent of ppl surviving ol’ Masamune.

Palmer went straight into Shrodinger’s Box. He might be alive, you wanna look into it? Me neither.

 

[trash panda]

Ite, you bring up a valid point about Sephiroth not being especially deadly. How many people has he slashed or poked only to miss the vital organs? Dare I say he’s worse than a Storm Trooper?

Now I’m inclined to believe he only hits his target sometimes because his weapon is so massive that it accidentally makes contact with his opponents...?

 

[hleV]

Is he even going for the kill? Maybe he just likes slashing people and see them suffer

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

For a killing machine, he avoids killing as many named characters as he kills.

 

[ForceStealer]

Most people who get hit head on by a fast-moving truck, die.

But when it happens in such a cartoony, Wile E. Coyote way, the safer assumption is that they survived, irrespective of the physics involved. If the truck hit him and he rolled across the ground cracking his head open, I'd be much more inclined to think he was dead rather than him bouncing off in such a way you could almost hear the Mario jump sound effect.

That “mistranslation” about Tseng always confuses me. You can say, and believe, you’re “done for,” and then wake up in a hospital bed. It happens, especially when Sephiroth is involved. I thought he was dead because the slice through him that you see in the vision later is very dramatic, and that’s literally the last time he appears in the game.

I think he technically says "I've been had..." which SORT of implies it, but yeah I don't think that's really it. It's the drama of the slash, and Elena saying that she's gonna punish you "for doin' in my boss like that."
But yeah, it couldn't have been THAT much of localization issue, because Rude lampshades it in Advent Children Complete in both languages.

 

[Kain424]

For a killing machine, he avoids killing as many named characters as he kills.

Or perhaps they are named because they survived. What was Tifa's father's name?