Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[Rydeen]

I actually enjoyed CC as a game (just not as a story) and didn’t mind its art style (I didn’t find it too dismal). AC’s grey palate makes sense and establishes Edge as not a happy place. But grey palates were definitely heavily overused during this time period.

 

[Odysseus]

I'm starting to think "colorful" may have been the wrong word to use. Crisis Core on the whole is a brighter game than Dirge for sure. I think its just that I find the pallet and use of color to be pretty bland. There aren't too many locations that stick out in my memory as being especially visually striking, whereas I can think of plenty from dirge. The slums look pretty bleak and monotone, Nibelheim is gray, Banora is just bland despite having a relatively bright pallet. I don't really know how to defend my position better than this, I just remember Crisis Core looking really boring.

 

[Erotic Materia]

All of this discussion is only making me feel less guilty for never having played either of the two games. Technically I started CC, but only played the first like 3 hours. Regardless, it sounds like I wasn't missing out on much.

 

[Makoeyes987]

One of my actual non-ironic points of praise for Dirge is its art direction, specifically that its more colorful than Advent Children and Crisis Core. It isn't a very bright game, mind you, but it isn't so washed out.

Now, I agree with you 100% in reference to DC's unique art direction, style and design for it's characters. One of the things I enjoyed were the stylized appearances of their main characters along with the detail of some it's locations. Kalm's traditional old European/Irish town design was a cool architectural style to give the place along with it's villagers. The WRO was well done, too. And you later mentioned Deepground itself, which I completely agree with. I found it to be the most fascinating, mysterious and well done location of the game. I wish it were a PS3 game so it could be properly detailed, explored and investigated as they really did a great job in the design of that location. When DC did it's own unique art and design, they did it well.

...However, I simply do not see what you're saying in it being more colorful than Crisis Core. Crisis Core's visuals are more vibrant and varied in color palette. I had to turn my TVs brightness up to 100 to see things properly But I will say that Dirge looks good and has a great unique art style (especially for a PS2 game for it's era), even though it's colors are very subdued. Unless you're Deepground. In which case you shine brightly like a neon star.

I think sorta get what you're saying in terms of Crisis Core's style not being as interesting to you, too. Crisis Core stayed really close to FFVII's style and really didn't try too hard to chart out a new direction for itself. In terms of what Dirge brought to the table in unique art design and appearance, I kinda agree. But at that the same time, I did like Crisis Core's look and return to VII's appearance in PSP graphics.

In my recent Crisis Core playthrough on hard mode my sole strategy consisted of running behind the enemy/boss and spamming the basic attack, consequently stun locking them with critical hits. If the enemy/boss didn't have a back then you just do the same to their face. Dodge whenever you feel threatened. Have cure, barrier, and mbarrier. Occasionally the "action" is interrupted by the DMW wherein you have to watch an unskippable animation multiple times a sitting. And don't get me started on the monotonous 300 extra missions and flat level design.

....What? No way. First off, stun locking only works on basic low to mid level enemies, which requires you to actively critical hit them repeatedly. Unless you have one of the high level accessories that allow a critical hit rate of 100% you can't naturally just stunlock enemies to death like that. And most high level enemies and bosses have a passive auto-endure that allows them to not recoil or get stunlocked from critical hits. Raising your stats and enhancing passives via items and materia is one of the most unique and creative ways to manipulate the RPG attributes for Zack. It allows you to low-level run mission levels far beyond your inherent level. It's similar to how Critical Mode in KH challenges you to master the combat beyond just the RPG level mechanics and it's an interesting challenge. You're selling Crisis Core waaaay too short. And you can totally skip DMW and summon sequences just by pressing the action button.

Again, I'll admit the Extra Missions get repetitive in their design due to the fact this is a PSP title with limited storage space, but at least Crisis Core tried to give each of the missions their own unique story reason and lore. That was a nice touch to give it some semblance of identity.

In my recent Dirge of Cerberus playthrough on hard mode I found genuine surprises, especially when navigating Deepground. At least aiming requires a bit of effort. At least the shootouts incorporate the level design. At least Dirge is weird. Furthermore, Dirge was a RPG-shooter before Destiny and The Division where even a thought. You could customize a character in the online mode! It was ahead of its time in a way.

Deepground is the best looking and most uniquely designed level in the entire game so I agree with it being a proper stage that incorporated the terrain for well done gameplay. But the rest of the game simply isn't like that. And given your setting of the bar so low here, I can easily flip that argument to Crisis Core's favor. Crisis Core at least gave Zack more than 1 limit break, 3 magic spells, a handful of accessories and weapons, and actual summons. There's depth and RPG mechanics to work with. I didn't expect Resident Evil 4, Devil May Cry, or Bloodrayne but the dearth of depth was disappointing. Now, granted I agree about it's multiplayer mode being ahead of it's time, and being unique and cool for it's time. That would have served it's longevity and I think there were unique mechanics that were included there as well. It is a shame we never got it.

That's a lot of extra words to say "You right, Dirge was actually better."

Technically I started CC, but only played the first like 3 hours. Regardless, it sounds like I wasn't missing out on much.

Wrong.



You missed this.



And this.

 

[oty]

In all honesty, just watch those "X full movie All cutscenes" for both. Even then, I dont think you will have a very pleasant experience.

 

[ForceStealer]

Crisis Core is a decent RPG gameplay wise. Just don't play hard mode (it basically just inflates HP totals). And don't do the side missions, yes they're repetitive, but worse is that you will rapidly become grossly overlevelled for the story bosses, robbing them of any drama.

And I enjoyed the arcade-y nature of Dirge's gameplay. And I had fun with the gun customization. But I won't pretend it's good.

 

[Odysseus]

Yeah like I said, colorful was the wrong word to use. I've scoured through some screen shots to refresh my memory, and its more vibrant that I remembered. Still fairly bland looking, but not quite as dull as I remembered it being. I think the limitations of the PSP didn't allow them to create an interesting atmosphere the way dirge could. I mentioned this somewhere else, but I really wish CC was on the PS3 instead. However,

I did like Crisis Core's look and return to VII's appearance in PSP graphics.

I can't agree with that. VII had a much more distinct artstyle in its prerendered backgrounds than Crisis Core could replicate on the PSP. Everything returning from the original takes a level up in blandness. I'm really starting to think Crisis Core's biggest issue was the platform it was released on. I think Square could improve it tremendously if they were to remake it, too.

Boy this thread got off topic. Sorry!

 

[ForceStealer]

Wheeeee

 

[Odysseus]

Okay I'll give you that one

 

[Erotic Materia]

And this.

Is....is Zack throwing weaponized dandruff?

 

[Rydeen]

POCKET SAND

 

[Clement Rage]

I think we're basically comparing apples to oranges here. A mobile phone game, an RPG, and a shooter all have very different styles and needs, and it basically depends on what you prefer.

Has anyone here actually played BC instead of just watching it on Youtube or reading scripts?

CC has lots of menus and submenus, because it's an RPG which lends itself to that kind of style. It also has lots of really boring levelling, which is because it's an RPG.

Shooters are necessarily much faster paced, so there's no time in combat to delve deeply into complicated menus.

Re colour, Dirge spends a lot of time underground and inside, CC has missions all over the world (in the same three maps). They are what they're supposed to be.

BC is a fantastic mobile phone game in 2004. But it's still a mobile phone game in 2004. The core story is decent (with some characterisation issues), but it tries to make itself a more important story than it is or can be, and so falls short. If it told a side story about the Turks, it could work, but instead it tries to tell THE MOST IMPORTANT STORY EVER THAT TIES EVERYTHING TOGETHER, which is not a story that can be told in a mobile phone game in 2004.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Is....is Zack throwing weaponized dandruff?

Those are needles!

Everyone knows that a true SOLDIER 1st Class is able to not only summon, but mimic in-tandem the attack of their summon, even a Cactuar!!!!

The amount of sheer crack and hilarity contained within CC makes it worth it.

 

[Saven]

....maybe I should give Crisis Core another look before the remake comes out. Looks fun if you are not taking it at all seriously if the above is any indication.

 

[Makoeyes987]

....maybe I should give Crisis Core another look before the remake comes out. Looks fun if you are not taking it at all seriously if the above is any indication.

I mean, it is very funny. Despite it's graphical and data limitations they try to make it fun and balance the darker narrative with the quirkiness and humor of VII. The overall game doesn't take itself too seriously despite the melodrama from some of it's characters.

 

[oty]

Ehhh I'm not quite sure. It sure is more funny than I remembered, but I recently tried to replay it and god.....either that thing didnt age well or I was through some honeymoon period when I first played it. It was rough, to say the least.

 

[Saven]

I mean, it is very funny. Despite it's graphical and data limitations they try to make it fun and balance the darker narrative with the quirkiness and humor of VII. The overall game doesn't take itself too seriously despite the melodrama from some of it's characters.

That's good. I'm sure I'd enjoy it a lot better now than when this first came out (when I was a very angsty teenager that needed everything to be serious-toned). I'll grab the PSP and go through it then. I'm already missing out on a few references from it, so now's the best time.

 

[cold_spirit]

Now, I agree with you 100% in reference to DC's unique art direction, style and design for it's characters. One of the things I enjoyed were the stylized appearances of their main characters along with the detail of some it's locations. Kalm's traditional old European/Irish town design was a cool architectural style to give the place along with it's villagers. The WRO was well done, too. And you later mentioned Deepground itself, which I completely agree with. I found it to be the most fascinating, mysterious and well done location of the game. I wish it were a PS3 game so it could be properly detailed, explored and investigated as they really did a great job in the design of that location. When DC did it's own unique art and design, they did it well.

...However, I simply do not see what you're saying in it being more colorful than Crisis Core. Crisis Core's visuals are more vibrant and varied in color palette. I had to turn my TVs brightness up to 100 to see things properly But I will say that Dirge looks good and has a great unique art style (especially for a PS2 game for it's era), even though it's colors are very subdued. Unless you're Deepground. In which case you shine brightly like a neon star.

I think sorta get what you're saying in terms of Crisis Core's style not being as interesting to you, too. Crisis Core stayed really close to FFVII's style and really didn't try too hard to chart out a new direction for itself. In terms of what Dirge brought to the table in unique art design and appearance, I kinda agree. But at that the same time, I did like Crisis Core's look and return to VII's appearance in PSP graphics.



....What? No way. First off, stun locking only works on basic low to mid level enemies, which requires you to actively critical hit them repeatedly. Unless you have one of the high level accessories that allow a critical hit rate of 100% you can't naturally just stunlock enemies to death like that. And most high level enemies and bosses have a passive auto-endure that allows them to not recoil or get stunlocked from critical hits. Raising your stats and enhancing passives via items and materia is one of the most unique and creative ways to manipulate the RPG attributes for Zack. It allows you to low-level run mission levels far beyond your inherent level. It's similar to how Critical Mode in KH challenges you to master the combat beyond just the RPG level mechanics and it's an interesting challenge. You're selling Crisis Core waaaay too short. And you can totally skip DMW and summon sequences just by pressing the action button.

Again, I'll admit the Extra Missions get repetitive in their design due to the fact this is a PSP title with limited storage space, but at least Crisis Core tried to give each of the missions their own unique story reason and lore. That was a nice touch to give it some semblance of identity.



Deepground is the best looking and most uniquely designed level in the entire game so I agree with it being a proper stage that incorporated the terrain for well done gameplay. But the rest of the game simply isn't like that. And given your setting of the bar so low here, I can easily flip that argument to Crisis Core's favor. Crisis Core at least gave Zack more than 1 limit break, 3 magic spells, a handful of accessories and weapons, and actual summons. There's depth and RPG mechanics to work with. I didn't expect Resident Evil 4, Devil May Cry, or Bloodrayne but the dearth of depth was disappointing. Now, granted I agree about it's multiplayer mode being ahead of it's time, and being unique and cool for it's time. That would have served it's longevity and I think there were unique mechanics that were included there as well. It is a shame we never got it.



View attachment 4929





Wrong.

View attachment 4930

You missed this.

View attachment 4931

And this.

Attacking enemies/bosses from behind is an automatic critical hit, no accessory required. You can stun lock Genesis for about 4-6 hits in the last boss battle. A revenge mechanic does exist, but nothing a simple dodge roll can't resolve. Afterwards you just set yourself back up behind the enemy/boss and whale away again. I spent 40 hours 100%-ing the main story and doing a sizable amount of extra mission with this "strategy". It's no wonder to me that the designers gave bosses unblockable attacks as it’s their only reliable way of inflicting damage. Enemies only begin to have auto-endure in the later extra missions which a casual playthrough won't reach. Other magic and commands simply can't keep up with the damage output of Zack's regular attack, especially since consecutive hits deal more damage. The only things you can skip in the DMW are character cutscenes and CGI for summons, but I'm referring to the animations for Tseng's Air Strike and the ilk. Those are very grating (e.g. "I'm trying, I'M TRYING").

I'll give you that the materia fusion added depth. I'd also like to echo that I would not recommend playing CC on hard mode with a new save file. The inflated HP of enemies is what most contributed to my long playtime. However, on normal you won’t ever need to use materia fusion as main story is beyond easy then. Pick your poison I suppose.

I’m not arguing that Dirge has great gameplay. I just found it more interesting than CC’s. I do appreciate the chance to share my experience though! Sorry for straying from the topic.

 

[albert graham]

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/a/K3Bn066

Love that SE keep surprising us with more contents and continue to add in depth interactions between the characters.
I'd blown away if Jessie's mom pull her to a corner and ask 'who's this freaking hottie you bring home?' lol

 

[rkss]

Really hope they tone down the ambigousness. Sometimes it works, sometimes it just makes you scracth your head

The ending in 97 game for example, original screenplay was really straightforward. Cloud says they could meet them there (dead friends/family members) over Nibelheim moutain. But in the FMV he say "we could meet here there in" in English version and "we could meet (them) there" in JP.

Probably he means just the same thing but Japanese use EN text as proof while English speakers use Jp text to interpret what the heck going on through his head. Either way, Cloud still makes zero sense considering AC exists.

 

[Kain424]

Wait, so you're saying Cloud is implying they are to accept death?

 

[Kratos]

On the other hand, that ambiguity plays directly into the (now-apocryphal) read of the ending where the Lifestream cleanses the world of humans, which is one interpretation I've always liked, so I'd be down with the Remake being similarly ambiguous.

It won't be, obviously; I'd be shocked if they resisted the urge to add a whole AC-lead-in-epilogue and kept the ending like it was originally. But if they did, my surprise would be very pleasant.

 

[Kain424]

I wouldn't mind, as long as we can play around in the world after Meteorfall. Could be interesting.

 

[rkss]

Wait, so you're saying Cloud is implying they are to accept death?

In the screenplay, Tifa says she want to meet her mom, dad Nibelheim people at Mt Nibelheim (mirroring to her 8 years old self?). After final battle with Sephiroth, Cloud says he finally understand what promise land is and they both can meet old people someday" Implying people don't die they return to promise land whatever.

But in the game the text is extremely ambiguous そこで…. [.] 会えると思うんだ [I think i can meet you] ("over there.. I think we can go meet (them)" - he doesn't specifically mention anyone here). In English "I think I can meet her(Aerith?) there"

Confusion yes. I just assume it's the same as the screenplay but less words, leave room for different interpretion .
But then we have AC, Cloud afraid of dying when he knew heaven exists.

 

[Ite]

I would argue that Cloud isn’t afraid of dying in AC, he’s detaching because he doesn’t want others to suffer over his death (at least that is how I have reframed his bizarre behavior in the years since). Like a dog crawling under the porch. Poor Stamp’s hero years are done.

On the other hand, that ambiguity plays directly into the (now-apocryphal) read of the ending where the Lifestream cleanses the world of humans, which is one interpretation I've always liked, so I'd be down with the Remake being similarly ambiguous.

^This, this, 1000x this.