Hopes for Remake & Rebirth (story/content)

[Fiz]

But they've all been shot with heavy arms fire. Would they really just be... Unconscious?

I mean, let's keep in mind that we should be seeing blood, but we aren't simply because of the game's rating. These people have been shot dead by Shinra MPs and attack helicopters. They shouldn't just be rendered unconscious. They should be dead from blood loss or trauma.

Because bullets don't do anything in FF... all weapons in fact are like toy weapons with flashy effects. They're effectively benign but if you whallop someone with them enough eventually it'll have an affect.

 

[cold_spirit]

Because bullets don't do anything in FF... all weapons in fact are like toy weapons with flashy effects.

Yep. From a gameplay perspective, Barret has a super low attack stat, lower than Cloud and Tifa's. And his default weapon is a gatling gun, one of the most deadly field weapons created by humankind.

(yes I know gameplay =/= story don't @ me)

 

[Odysseus]

It wouldn't be much fun if Cloud died in the very first battle after getting shot by the guards lol.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Cloud mostly dodges or blocks bullets with his oversized fantasy sword. He isn't just tanking gunfire like the Hulk or Superman.

Gunfire can kill him. He suffered serious injury getting shot in the back in AC. Zack died by bullets. Guns kill people in VII, even SOLDIERs.

Neighborhood Watch members don't have anything close to the ability to withstand gattling fire from a military grade helicopter. Those people shot should be dead or extremely close to it.

The Remake's censored tone towards realistic violence obfuscates the actual bloodshed being depicted in narrative. Ironically, the OG doing the very same thing conveyed the violence properly because the depiction of characters were clearly caricaturized, and the violence could be inferred thanks to players filling in the gaps.

 

[Ite]

The Remake's censored tone towards realistic violence obfuscates the actual bloodshed being depicted in narrative. Ironically, the OG doing the very same thing conveyed the violence properly because the depiction of characters were clearly caricaturized, and the violence could be inferred thanks to players filling in the gaps.

I was able to infer a lot of violence in Remake :sociopathic death note grin:

My first demo playthrough, an MP seemed to crack his neck on the turnstile after my upswing sent him flying. So brutal

 

[Shademp]

I hope that the game includes a fourth-wall-breaking easter egg for if you have zero materia in your inventory when Yuffie "steals" your materia. A little something for the "No Materia" players out there.

Cloud: "We gotta go after Yuffie and get our materia back."​

Barret: "What are you talking about? We didn't have any materia in the first place."​

Cloud: "HUSH!"​

This raises the question if Yuffie will also steal the White Materia from Aerith or not. If Yuffie does end up stealing even Aerith's most precious materia, then there will always be at least that ONE materia that is stolen even in a No Materia playthrough.


EDIT: It would also be neat if they accounted for the scenario when you had more materia than Yuffie could carry.

Cloud: "She stole our materia!"​

Nanaki: "Well, most of them. I guess she could only carry so many."​

 

[Odysseus]

Yuffie stealing the white materia without knowing its significance (or maybe because she does) would be an interesting new take on that quest. Maybe she'd want to use the ultimate white magic to save Wutai from Shinra?

Edit: wait, they don't know what that materia does until after Aerith dies. Nvm.

 

[Shademp]

There is neat opportunity for character writing here if they acknowledge the White Materia, whether Yuffie steals it or not.

Scenario: *Yuffie doesn't steal the White Materia*

Cloud: "Hey Aerith, do you still have..."​

​

*Aerith points to her hair*​

​

Aerith: "Yes. She didn't take it."​

Barret: "Maybe she's not the elite Materia Hunter she claims to be."​

Aerith: "I think...she couldn't bear to take it. I told her before that it was my mother's."​

Barret: "...Maybe there is hope for the kid."​

EDITED TO ADD:​

Aerith: "I also told her it's perfectly useless."​

Nanaki: "Hmph."​

 

[Fiz]

I hope that the game includes a fourth-wall-breaking easter egg for if you have zero materia in your inventory when Yuffie "steals" your materia. A little something for the "No Materia" players out there.

Cloud: "We gotta go after Yuffie and get our materia back."​

Barret: "What are you talking about? We didn't have any materia in the first place."​

Cloud: "HUSH!"​

This raises the question if Yuffie will also steal the White Materia from Aerith or not. If Yuffie does end up stealing even Aerith's most precious materia, then there will always be at least that ONE materia that is stolen even in a No Materia playthrough.


EDIT: It would also be neat if they accounted for the scenario when you had more materia than Yuffie could carry.

Cloud: "She stole our materia!"​

Nanaki: "Well, most of them. I guess she could only carry so many."​

That would be pretty cool, lol.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

EDIT: It would also be neat if they accounted for the scenario when you had more materia than Yuffie could carry.

Cloud: "She stole our materia!"​

Nanaki: "Well, most of them. I guess she could only carry so many."​

Leading to ...

Tifa: "We won't even really miss what's gone ..."
Cloud & Barret: "It's the principle of the damn thing!"

There is neat opportunity for character writing here if they acknowledge the White Materia, whether Yuffie steals it or not.

Scenario: *Yuffie doesn't steal the White Materia*

Cloud: "Hey Aerith, do you still have..."​

​

*Aerith points to her hair*​

​

Aerith: "Yes. She didn't take it."​

Barret: "Maybe she's not the elite Materia Hunter she claims to be."​

Aerith: "I think...she couldn't bear to take it. I told her before that it was my mother's."​

Barret: "...Maybe there is hope for the kid."​

EDITED TO ADD:​

Aerith: "I also told her it's perfectly useless."​

Nanaki: "Hmph."​

Golden.

 

[Fiz]

Then, after Yuffie steals the white materia Sephiroth shanks her... and we're all like "oh no, not Yuffie". ?

 

[a_apple 2.0]

I think I post this here too since it fits better this thread

regarding Clouds upcoming mental break down in the remake, if you look at Sephiroth's behavior in part one then it might looks like that the story will go in a different direction, because if you compare RE!Seph to OG Seph you can tell that there is now a fundamental difference in his approach to Cloud.
OG Seph didn't acknowledge Cloud as a person so he could manipulate him into doubting his own existence which leads to Clouds ego getting completely shattered, that's why he acted like he didn't know Cloud when he saw him again (or maybe he really didn't recognized him either way) or why he acted surprised when Cloud showed emotions after Aerith died.
RE!Seph on the other hand doesn't seem to go for that because if you look at chapter 2, Sephiroth tells Cloud he killed his mother which means he is confirming to Cloud that yes he is a real boy, which also means it's pretty unlikely that he suddenly will backtrack and try to convince Cloud that everything he suffered 5 years ago because of him isn't real anyway even more so since that memory is something he wants Cloud to remember and hold on to, which conflicts with OG where Sephiroth tells Cloud he was created after the Nibelheim incidence.

Remake Sephiroth seems more focused on making Cloud concentrate on hatred and negative emotions but he also seems to try to guide him to something bigger he has yet to realize, so maybe there is a completely new storyline waiting to happen and the plot from the OG will drastically change?

 

[a_apple 2.0]

...on the other hand not even Nomura would be that much of a madlad to not do the Cloud identity crisis part. I mean that's literally his arc and probably the best part of the game
I wonder if Zack will have something to do with it this time around, but then again Sephiroth manipulating Cloud to the point till he literally believes he is a clone and all his memories are fake is the reason why their relationship has that psychological horror aspect and what makes it much more personal since Sephiroth successfully fucked with him on such a elemental level.

 

[ForceStealer]

By all accounts Nomura's the only reason the remake was as close to the original as it was...

 

[Kain424]

if you look at Sephiroth's behavior in part one then it might looks like that the story will go in a different direction, because if you compare RE!Seph to OG Seph you can tell that there is now a fundamental difference in his approach to Cloud.
OG Seph didn't acknowledge Cloud as a person so he could manipulate him into doubting his own existence which leads to Clouds ego getting completely shattered

Fundamentally, he seems to be doing the same thing as in the original. He is making Cloud think he has some epic vendetta to settle against him.


However, the reality is Sephiroth was always using Jenova to make Cloud do his bidding. And with Sephiroth bringing up Nibelheim and telling Cloud to "Hold onto that hatred", it appears the same thing is happening.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

View attachment 9697
Fundamentally, he seems to be doing the same thing as in the original. He is making Cloud think he has some epic vendetta to settle against him.

View attachment 9698
However, the reality is Sephiroth was always using Jenova to make Cloud do his bidding. And with Sephiroth bringing up Nibelheim and telling Cloud to "Hold onto that hatred", it appears the same thing is happening.

I know it's Jenovaroth who is running around before we get to the NC in the og, but who knows if that applies to the remake too since we know there is something weird going on with Sephiroth, but it doesn't really matter if it's Sephiroth using Jenova by proxy or if it his spirit from the future projecting himself through the lifestream into Clouds brain or something even weirder.
Because the fact of the matter is that Cloud does have a epic vendetta against Sephiroth, that part isn't a lie, the actual lie is that Sephiroth through his manipulation makes Cloud believe that this isn't the case, that he is a clone with no past, that he was never present at the Nibelheim incident.
So that's why it's so insane to hear Sephiroth himself tell Cloud that he was at the Nibelheim incident and that he does have a mother, he is basically confirming to him that he is Cloud from Nibelheim, which makes me really wonder where this all is going

 

[Kain424]

I know it's Jenovaroth who is running around before we get to the NC in the og, but who knows if that applies to the remake too since we know there is something weird going on with Sephiroth, but it doesn't really matter if it's Sephiroth using Jenova by proxy or if it his spirit from the future projecting himself through the lifestream into Clouds brain or something even weirder.
Because the fact of the matter is that Cloud does have a epic vendetta against Sephiroth, that part isn't a lie, the actual lie is that Sephiroth through his manipulation makes Cloud believe that this isn't the case, that he is a clone with no past, that he was never present at the Nibelheim incident.
So that's why it's so insane to hear Sephiroth himself tell Cloud that he was at the Nibelheim incident and that he does have a mother, he is basically confirming to him that he is Cloud from Nibelheim, which makes me really wonder where this all is going

Yes, it will be interesting to see how they play it. I am guessing Sephiroth will tell him it was a lie all along, and Tifa's doubt will only cause the gnawing doubts in Cloud's mind to shatter his reality, just as in the original. Of course, we all know he was there. But people new to this will be very intrigued by what's going on.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I know it's Jenovaroth who is running around before we get to the NC in the og, but who knows if that applies to the remake too since we know there is something weird going on with Sephiroth, but it doesn't really matter if it's Sephiroth using Jenova by proxy or if it his spirit from the future projecting himself through the lifestream into Clouds brain or something even weirder.
Because the fact of the matter is that Cloud does have a epic vendetta against Sephiroth, that part isn't a lie, the actual lie is that Sephiroth through his manipulation makes Cloud believe that this isn't the case, that he is a clone with no past, that he was never present at the Nibelheim incident.
So that's why it's so insane to hear Sephiroth himself tell Cloud that he was at the Nibelheim incident and that he does have a mother, he is basically confirming to him that he is Cloud from Nibelheim, which makes me really wonder where this all is going

Precisely. This is the opposite of what Seph did in the original, where he dismissed Cloud's humanity at every turn -- initially pretending to not even know who he was, then later acting like the answer had presented itself by virtue of Cloud being a Jenova construct that had never been a real person.

So, to me, this doesn't ring true:

Fundamentally, he seems to be doing the same thing as in the original. He is making Cloud think he has some epic vendetta to settle against him.

Seph didn't present the idea to Cloud that he had a vendetta against him. Quite the opposite: Cloud was his unknowing ally all along -- a tool that had fallen out of the toolbox, wandered off, and gotten confused.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Yes, it will be interesting to see how they play it. I am guessing Sephiroth will tell him it was a lie all along, and Tifa's doubt will only cause the gnawing doubts in Cloud's mind to shatter his reality, just as in the original. Of course, we all know he was there. But people new to this will be very intrigued by what's going on.

I don't know, Sephiroth kinda treats Cloud like he is the chosen one now, you know. He literally tells him at the edge of creation that the destiny of the planet lies in his hands, it would be weird writing for him to turn around and go punk'd you bitch you're just a clone and keep in mind Sephiroth wants Cloud to remember that anger and hatred he felt that day, this is the one thing I took away from his remake version: he really, really badly wants Cloud to be angry and that he believes that through negative emotions Cloud will become stronger.

I mean don't get me wrong we do see Clouds identity crisis getting set up, like in the church or in reactor 5 basically everytime "real" Cloud is talking to himself, the game is pretty faithful in regards to that except in the first bombing mission, what do we get instead of real Cloud warning us that "this isn't a normal reactor"? A black feather.

 

[Kain424]

I think this is because we are seeing both sides of the Sephiroth coin now. Whereas in the original game, we pretty much exclusively saw Sephiroth's workings from the shadows, now we get to see Sephiroth working his way into Cloud's mind, almost from the moment Cloud is in Midgar. And just as they've decided to play up Sephiroth's role in Remake, so too will they be playing his mental games a bit different this time. But this is still fundamentally the same game. He makes Cloud chase him. He takes control of Cloud and makes him perform his bidding.



And my guess is that is what is going on during the Edge of Creation scene. Sephiroth has spent the whole game getting into Cloud's mind. And when he symbolically disarms Cloud in that headspace, Sephiroth basically takes control.

 

[Ite]

But... Hojo already told Cloud, Tifa and Barret that Cloud was never in SOLDIER. Cloud may not have heard it because of Jenova static, but the subtitles display the full line of dialogue and he has time to even raise his arms dramatically after the sentence before the whispers carry him away. Tifa and Barret fully heard that. I don’t really see how the OG’s twist is going to be play out even remotely similar. Even if Tifa is rightfully distrustful of Hojo, he still gave her a major clue to her #1 source of anxiety. Not just a clue — a full on answer that she can weigh each new piece of evidence against. When Cloud tells his bullhockey story, twitching and clutching his head half the time, I imagine she’ll react differently — why else would the writers spoil the story’s biggest twist?

 

[a_apple]

But... Hojo already told Cloud, Tifa and Barret that Cloud was never in SOLDIER. Cloud may not have heard it because of Jenova static, but the subtitles display the full line of dialogue and he has time to even raise his arms dramatically after the sentence before the whispers carry him away. Tifa and Barret fully heard that. I don’t really see how the OG’s twist is going to be play out even remotely similar. Even if Tifa is rightfully distrustful of Hojo, he still gave her a major clue to her #1 source of anxiety. Not just a clue — a full on answer that she can weigh each new piece of evidence against. When Cloud tells his bullhockey story, twitching and clutching his head half the time, I imagine she’ll react differently — why else would the writers spoil the story’s biggest twist?

pretty sure that was just the English localisation fucking up again, in the japanese version Hojo never reveals that Cloud wasn't a Soldier

 

[Ite]

pretty sure that was just the English localisation fucking up again, in the japanese version Hojo never reveals that Cloud wasn't a Soldier

That... is an enormous fuckup. That is probably the biggest translation fuck up I’ve ever heard of. That would be like if the French version of the bed scene in Sixth Sense said “You don’t know you’re dead” instead of “they.” I need to know, what’s that line in every official language...?

 

[a_apple]

That... is an enormous fuckup. That is probably the biggest translation fuck up I’ve ever heard of. That would be like if the French version of the bed scene in Sixth Sense said “You don’t know you’re dead” instead of “they.” I need to know, what’s that line in every official language...?

Yeah, makes you kinda wonder how something like that could happen, but yeah Hojo never reveals that Cloud wasn't a Soldier, which makes sense since such a huge deviation from the og would at least get some kind of acknowledgement from the Ultimania or something.
I don't remember the exact quote but back in summer there were gorillion threads on reddit where people were having the exact same issue, let me look it up

 

[Roger]

The Japanese isn't different at all, Hojo tells them Cloud wasn't in SOLDIER and the Whispers arrive afterwards.

Cloud can't hear it because of Jenova's static in his head but Hojo is still talking and the loudspeaker is still on, no reason to believe that Tifa and Barret somehow can't hear him.