Innocent Sin v2.0 - Vincent x Lucrecia

[len]

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=217.msg6200#msg6200 date=1231210185]Now when you say "come clean about their feelings," do you mean specifically a confession of romantic feelings, or just any sort of feelings?[/quote]

This is usually left ambiguous in Japanese's context regarding what types of feelings it is trying to convey, though it is possible to assume it is something "strong". They (as in producers, script writers) often like to left it to be so and most of the time there is this unspoken rule about letting the audience figure it out. In other words, it is whatever you would like it to be .

 

[Kamui]

Ravy could you please repost her birthday? Since I like writing birthday fics for my favorite characters.

As to the true love moments between them, I somehow feel reminded of Hamlet and Ophelia, mostly because of the whole tragic ending between them. Vincent steadily became more desperate to try and stop her, while Lucrecia (courtesy of Hojo's drugging ((I still hold to my theory!!))) went steadily more insane. I can't help but think that Lucrecia must have visited him at some point while he was unconscious during his time in the coffin. Because no matter how much each of them hurts, they always come back to one another. Especially a love as true as that. My gushing romantic nature feels compelled to quote Princess Bride: "Death cannot stop true love."

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

If Lucrecia had visited him in the coffin then she would have known he was alive, and if she knew he was alive I don't think she would have felt desperate enough to try to kill and then isolate herself.

Her birthday is July 22. She's a Cancer. =)

 

[Kamui]

Okay that makes sense. I think in my KH Vincent story, he's going to end up with Lucrecia. Just to make it nice, since in KH they would have a chance to get back together if they showed up in that world. ;D (Don't ask me how, I'm still working on it.)

And that's cool! Thank you Ravy.

My school yearbook wants to have drawings students do in their notebooks for this year. I think I may try and do a Vincent and Lucrecia picture for it. I'm getting better at drawing girls... I think... :-/

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I've never played KH but I get the impression that it's one big crack 'fic itself anyway. If Aeris can be alive, then sure, why not, Vincent and Lucrecia can hook up.

Good luck on your drawing. =) And good luck explaining the subject to people.

 

[Kamui]

Yeah KH is kinda crackishly AU, but it's fun! I love the first game since you can actually abuse Donald and Goofy.

So why do you think Lucrecia was so surprised when she first met Vincent? Wouldn't Grimoire have mentioned that he had a child(ren), actually he does mention Vincent when he's dying... scratch that last bit. But she did seem a little too surprised when Vincent showed up.

 

[Mantichorus]

I'm stuck in a loop of #3, #4 and #5......

Personally, whether true love only exists in fiction or not, I don't think it matters. The ideal exists, which gives us something to believe in and work towards. But that's by the by.

You'd be surprised. I asked my psychology tutor if I could watch a FFVII:AC trailer on a DVD that came free with a magazine, the words "Final Fantasy VII" caused several heads to pop up. "What? Final Fantasy VII?" "Uh, yeah. They're... they're doing a CGI movie sequel... thing." "Really?! Cool!" The following year, I got a Vincent AC figure, got it out in the same class... and everyone on the table just grabbed at it. It's more pervasive than you might think.

 

[spirit_chaser]

I promised to post this pic and completely forgot about it, sorry =/
Here it is (photomanip, made by meh):

 

[looneymoon]

I finished DoC! and I have to say, Lucrecia was one of my favourite characters of the game. Haters on the left and Her birthday is two days after mine, it seems I'm a little sad that the Tsviets didn't get much of a story, they were interesting

Although that particular part of the story has been concluded, it'd be nice if Lucrecia made another appearance in some way. It's quite tragic that she's probably the only character that had unconditional affection for poor Seph. I thought the whole virtual network thing was such an inappropriate concept to add into the FF7 universe D: I totally got the impression she was still alive playing the original FF7...

 

[spirit_chaser]

I think that "sealed into crystal" concept is more tragic and appealing.
Ever since DC release I see Lucrecia more like a symbolic figure, than an actual "living" character.

 

[Mantichorus]

Thanks for the render, that's pretty cool.

looneymoon, congrats on completing DC! And yes, the Tsviets were a little underdeveloped. Zetta cardboard cut-outs.

Well, it all depends on your definition of "alive". Her body, her physical form, is dead, possibly already decomposed (note: ick), but her mind and soul are very much distinct, and thus, in a sense, alive.

What's interesting to me is the crystals. Those crystals are linked to materia formation in some way, yeah? So... just thinking out loud... could a materia naturally form at some point in the future with Lucrecia's memories/knowledge/personality encoded on it?

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

No, Lucrecia's body is alive. If anything, it's her mind that's dead, but she can very much be considered as "alive"—Hiroki Chiba, the scenario writer, said as much explicitly, not to mention that she discussed her state of alive-ness with Vincent in FF7. "Hey Lucrecia, you're alive." "I wanted to die, but the Jenova inside me wouldn't let me die." I don't know where the confusion always stems from, lol.

The crystal object that Lucrecia has been sleeping throughout DC, is it possible that she could be alive?

Chiba: She is still alive. In FF7, she became an entity that possesses a body that won’t die [perish] “that easily,” so she was always inside the crystal. However, it is not to say that it is entirely impossible for her to come out of the crystal, as Lucrecia was just in a state of sealing herself inside. Furthermore, that crystal is a product of Lucrecia herself. However, those who have seen the ending will understand that words can be [properly] communicated to her.

source: http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/dirge-of-cerberus/1494/dirge-of-cerberus-interview-with-the-creators/#more-1494

What's interesting to me is the crystals. Those crystals are linked to materia formation in some way, yeah? So... just thinking out loud... could a materia naturally form at some point in the future with Lucrecia's memories/knowledge/personality encoded on it?

Ooooh, that IS reeeaaally interesting. I'd write fanfiction about it if I wasn't already working on a totally different idea!

And yeah, if I'm not mistaken, the crystal she's in isn't just "linked to materia in some way"—it technically is materia. It's a fountain of Lifestream that has solidified, much like the one that Sephiroth explains to Cloud, Zack, and Tifa in the Nibel mountains, and like what Sephiroth seals himself inside later in FF7.

As Sephiroth explains:

(They continue through the cave, reaching a beautiful, glittering fountain.)

Cloud
"...And what's this?"

Sephiroth
"A Mako fountain. It's a miracle of nature."

Tifa
"It's so beautiful..."

(She walks to the fountain.)

Tifa
"If the Mako Reactor countinues to suck up the energy, this
fountain will dry up too..."

(Sephiroth comes to the fountain.)

Sephiroth
"Materia. When you condense Mako energy, materia is produced."
"It's very rare to be able to see materia in its natural state."

(Cloud walks to the fountain.)

Cloud
"By the way... Why is it that when you use materia you can also
use magic too?"

Sephiroth
"You were in SOLDIER and didn't even know that?"
"...the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients is held in the
materia."
"Anyone with this knowledge can freely use the powers of the Land
and the Planet. That knowledge interacts between ourselves and the planet
calling up magic..... or so they say."

Cloud
"Magic...... a mysterious power."

(Tifa looks around, then bends down.)

Sephiroth
"Ha, ha, ha!"

Cloud
"Did I say somethin' funny?"

Sephiroth
"A man once told me never to use an unscientific term such as
mysterious power! It shouldn't even be called magic!"
"I still remember how angry he was."

Cloud
"Who was that?"

Sephiroth
"Hojo of Shinra, Inc. ... An inexperienced man assigned to take
over the work of a great scientist."
"He was a walking mass of complexes."

(Tifa looks up.)

Tifa
"A Mako fountain... So this is where the knowledge of the A
ncients is."

source: http://members.fortunecity.com/sephkatana/ff7stuff/ff7disc1.txt

I don't recall if the scene was repeated in Crisis Core, and don't have the script available for it if it was. =(



@Kamui:

So why do you think Lucrecia was so surprised when she first met Vincent? Wouldn't Grimoire have mentioned that he had a child(ren), actually he does mention Vincent when he's dying... scratch that last bit. But she did seem a little too surprised when Vincent showed up.

She wasn't surprised to discover he had a son. She knew he had a son, because, as you say, Grimoire mentions Vincent upon death.

What surprised her was that his son was there, and assigned to work with her—the latter still being an intriguing mystery, I might add. She raises an excellent point: "Why would they send his...[son]?"

Surely ShinRa knew that Grimoire had been her mentor and that Lucrecia was there when he was KIA. Knowing this, why did they assign Vincent to the Jenova Project?



@Manti:

I'm stuck in a loop of #3, #4 and #5......

Well that's better than me. My life is an eternal loop of #1 and #2. :

Not that my obsession with video game characters helps me much...


@spirit_chaser—

Are those Yuna's eyes?

 

[sephirothpaine]

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=217.msg7970#msg7970 date=1231896106]
Are those Yuna's eyes?
[/quote]

No, both of them are really brown. Yuna's eyes are: one green, one blue.

Lucrecia is very much alive. Her mind is fully functional. She choice to seal herself there since it was special to her and she couldn't kill herself.

 

[looneymoon]

Well, it's good to know she's officially alive. The line near the end where she says something about the "real her" that "perished away long ago" kinda got me confused.

In DoC we see Vincent get his "end" so to speak, I think it's safe to assume that his past sins don't quite haunt him so vigourously as before. At the same time, I'd like to see Lucrecia get some kind of closure with her past mistakes as well, specifically those regarding Sephiroth. Maybe maybe hopefully in the next Compilation title.

 

[spirit_chaser]

Are those Yuna's eyes?

No xd; Those are Lucrecia's eyes, taken from another picture.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

No, both of them are really brown. Yuna's eyes are: one green, one blue.

Yes but I don't doubt the ability of someone who could make that photomanip to be able to recolor some irises. However—

No xd; Those are Lucrecia's eyes, taken from another picture.

So:

(She does kinda look like Yuna there, though, doesn't she? D: )

Lucrecia is very much alive. Her mind is fully functional.

I mean "mind" more in the sense of "sanity." She is cognisant, yes, but her mind, as it once was, is shattered. That's what she means when she says "The real me crumbled away long ago" (or, in the Japanese version, "The real [me] was [purposely] destroyed."

I suppose people mistake "the real me" to mean her real body, rather than her real self—probably because, as she says the line, she is speaking as an appirition who is obviously not in her real body, and people are looking for an explanation why. But since her body is obviously not gone or destroyed in any way, they assume she means that, while her body is intact, she actually died "long ago."

At least, that's where I'm guessing the misunderstanding comes from. I was never one of the ones who misunderstood it myself.

 

[Makoeyes987]

It's actually a reference to her suicide attempt.

She created that recording before she left, and would attempt to kill herself, and thus discover the Jenova in her would not let her die.

So it's more like, she intended to be dead and thus, by the time Vincent would see that sphere, she would have literally been "destroyed" or more aptly put, dead.

 

[Kamui]

[quote author=sephirothpaine link=topic=217.msg8012#msg8012 date=1231908758]
No, both of them are really brown. Yuna's eyes are: one green, one blue.
[/quote]
I have Yuna eyes! Heterochromia rules!

As to the alive or dead bit as I keep having to argue with my dear sweet mother, "SHE'S NOT DEAD! SHE'S ASLEEP!!!!" See I figure it's more like Vincent's sleep in the sense that she's aware but not aware. I love the whole ability to astroproject and talk to Vincent. I keep wanting to scream at him, "get up there and kiss her right now before I kick you!"

But the physical body death bit.... I don't think she's even physically dead since at the end her physical body does shed a tear at Vincent's departure.

 

[looneymoon]

I suppose people mistake "the real me" to mean her real body, rather than her real self—probably because, as she says the line, she is speaking as an appirition who is obviously not in her real body, and people are looking for an explanation why. But since her body is obviously not gone or destroyed in any way, they assume she means that, while her body is intact, she actually died "long ago."

I did understand thst she was not refering to her body (that wouldn't make sense as her body was only a few feet away). I think it was the nature of the line that was a little ambiguous, for me. "Perish away" just seems like an indicator of death, but her portrayal didn't make it seem like she was actually dead in the usual sense. It was more of "wut?" moment, than anything. I still thought she was still alive (shedding the tear), but eh.. I just got thrown in a bit of loop with that line

[quote author=Makoeyes987 link=topic=217.msg8246#msg8246 date=1231967644]
It's actually a reference to her suicide attempt.

She created that recording before she left, and would attempt to kill herself, and thus discover the Jenova in her would not let her die.

So it's more like, she intended to be dead and thus, by the time Vincent would see that sphere, she would have literally been "destroyed" or more aptly put, dead.
[/quote]

Well, it goes with her namsake I guess. That's pretty funny actually, I was just learning today in my Classic Studies discussion class about the importance the rape/suicide of Luretia/Lucrecia was to the foundation of Ancient Rome

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

It's actually a reference to her suicide attempt.

She created that recording before she left, and would attempt to kill herself, and thus discover the Jenova in her would not let her die.

So it's more like, she intended to be dead and thus, by the time Vincent would see that sphere, she would have literally been "destroyed" or more aptly put, dead.

No, I think you're thinking of the recording she left in the ShinRa mansion, which she did indeed leave with the intentions of killing herself after. However, when she says this line, it's when her actual present-time consciousness speaks to Vincent's consciousness via Shelke, when Shelke SNDs to bring Vincent the protomateria.

That she might have recorded even this speech before her death had not occurred to me before, but it doesn't seem like that would make sense, since her last line is "I'm so sorry! But...I'm so happy...you survived." She wouldn't have known at the time of her suicide attempt that Vincent later survived, and if she was just recording it in case he survived, like the holorecording left in the ShinRa mansion, then it wouldn't have really been accurate to say "I'm so happy you survived" because she wouldn't have actually known yet if he had survived or not.

 

[spirit_chaser]

(She does kinda look like Yuna there, though, doesn't she? D: )

I don't see any Yuna in her (Lucrecia is MUCH prettier )

 

[Dawnbreaker]

I've always loved this pairing. It was the ulitmate tragic couple. Unlike a lot of other pairings there doesn't seem to be a happy ending for these two.

Very beautiful and very sad.

 

[Kamui]

[quote author=Ravynne link=topic=217.msg8442#msg8442 date=1231992277]
No, I think you're thinking of the recording she left in the ShinRa mansion, which she did indeed leave with the intentions of killing herself after. However, when she says this line, it's when her actual present-time consciousness speaks to Vincent's consciousness via Shelke, when Shelke SNDs to bring Vincent the protomateria.

That she might have recorded even this speech before her death had not occurred to me before, but it doesn't seem like that would make sense, since her last line is "I'm so sorry! But...I'm so happy...you survived." She wouldn't have known at the time of her suicide attempt that Vincent later survived, and if she was just recording it in case he survived, like the holorecording left in the ShinRa mansion, then it wouldn't have really been accurate to say "I'm so happy you survived" because she wouldn't have actually known yet if he had survived or not.
[/quote]

Hmm, maybe she was still holding onto some hope and being optimistic that he did survive. If he died it would just be lost to time but because he did survive she was able to pass on her message. It's sort of like knowing "I know you're listening" at empty rooms. If there's no one there, no one knows you said it, and if there is, you probably just disturbed some shadowy organization.

That and it's proof of how much she cares about him. If she didn't care about him than she wouldn't leave anything for him.

 

[Ravynne Nevyrmore]

I've been speaking with the artist of this beautiful piece:

Vincent and Lucrecia by Lecidre

...and she directed me to a beautiful fanfic:

As Crimson as My Sins, by Dance Macabre

For shame, it was never finished. D: But there are parts of it that are just...heartwrenching. And there's a very sexy kissing scene, lol.

She also recommended this one:

A Valentine's Story, by Servant of SHEVAL

...though I've only glanced yet and can't vouch for its quality. Doesn't look as good, but might still be an entertaining read.


And some more fan art I happened upon this morning from an old e-acquaintance:

Happy Birthday Vin by Ikipud

 

[Dawnbreaker]

That first one is so stunning. It seems a lot in character too. Vincent lovingly looking at her, while she seems distant, looking elsewhere. Definitely a tragic couple. I wrote some of their story in my fanfic called the Story of Sephiroth. I must say, I do like Vincent's angsty character.