SPOILERS INTERmission Chapter 2 Spoiler Discussion

[Fiz]

Barret looks really good, Tifa and Cloud are OK but somehow... they botched Aerith's face IMHO :| She looks so very weird which is a shame because her lines and acting are very cute there.

I really dislike the CG models.


(Sorry for not using multiquote, it doesn’t seem to work on mobile... does anyone else have this?)

 

[Odysseus]

No, no, we do see some pseudo-dead Cetra in the OG, the “Black Mage”/nyum-nyums from the Temple. They specifically are/were tasked with guarding the temple according to Aerith.
View attachment 10161

Oh man, what the fuck are those gonna look like in the remake?

 

[LNK]

I'm not disagreeing with any of that tho. Logically that should be the outcome of things, I just think it would be messed up to make that kind of story for two characters that really don't deserve any of this. Like the moral of their story would be "some people just need to die for good things to happen" like even though that might be true it's such a heavy and morally complex situation that I just can't see the devs really going for that.

Could you have seen the devs using the whispers in remake?

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Oh man, what the fuck are those gonna look like in the remake?

Probably something like this? The Temple of the Ancients is kinda nuts in terms of area design too. I imagine the entire area will get a massive face-life.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

No, no, we do see some pseudo-dead Cetra in the OG, the “Black Mage”/nyum-nyums from the Temple. They specifically are/were tasked with guarding the temple according to Aerith.

They're also nothing like what Aerith is in ACC or the end of the OG. She hasn't got a semi-physical body like that.

 

[Odysseus]

I'm almost certain the weird black mage esque designs will be retained, along with the Escher style interior design. Might ditch they Egyptian murals though.

 

[KindOfBlue]

My reasoning is indeed reliant on the author caring about Yuffie's reactions in DoC being consistent with the new lore of Remake. They very well may not care for such consistency. I hope they do, though.

Honestly I was just impressed that not once does Yuffie indicate she doesn't know what DG is or who Nero is at any point in DoC. It's probably good enough in their eyes.

Well, if we consider that this is a new version of FF7, then I imagine Remake’s version of DoC will either consider Yuffie’s new involvement OR we’re venturing towards something else altogether. So as far as DoC goes, the reason why Yuffie doesn’t seem to know about Nero or Deepground is because the events of INTERmission just didn’t happen in that continuity, that’s all.

 

[Theozilla]

They're also nothing like what Aerith is in ACC or the end of the OG. She hasn't got a semi-physical body like that.

True, but the Nyum-Nyums have been hanging in the temple for eons/1000s of years, also it’s implied the way they became pseudo-dead is different from the regular death that Aerith experienced.

Anyways this is largely irreverent to the general point of: Aerith didn’t need to die for Holy to succeed, Sephiroth just needed to be defeated earlier/faster, but since he wasn’t, the Lifestream was needed to aide Holy in destroying meteor, and “waking up” the Lifestream was something Aerith was able to even while dead; could she have done the “waking up” while alive too? Who knows, the OG never specified otherwise, and the Compilation seems to lean towards former notion. None of that contradicts the thematic significance NKN discuss about Aerith’s death specifically not being a deliberate sacrifice, but rather representative of senseless sudden loss.

 

[Roundhouse]

Obsidian made a good point in regard to no one looking over at Zack during his entrance: sometimes not everything in a scene is worked through in a realistic style, the priority can be emotion and the drama of the moment.

Part of me wondered why there are even people in the church, because it instinctively feels more dramatic to me if the church is empty. Then I realised that an empty church isn't actually dramatic at all in this case, because Zack would just think, 'well, maybe Aerith isn't around at the moment'. So how do you signal that something mysterious and negative may have happened, so that Zack has an apprioriately crushed and confused reaction?

I guess a group of upset people can do that. Now, if it's the plate fall, all you need to tackle is 'would Zack know about this before getting to the church or not?'. I'm not familiar enough with the geography of Midgar to answer that, though. If it's not plate fall, could it be that they think Aerith is still captured by Shinra? This alternative seems less likely, though. Of course, there is another theory floating around...Aerith is dead in this timeline. Possible, but I have a tricky time seeing where that leads, story-wise. Obviously Zack would be devastated, and.........then what?

 

[Lex]

Hi,

This DLC was very good. I was frownyface towards the end with the DoC stuff going on (that this happened with Yuffie present obviously has other implications) but overall I loved Yuffie, liked Sonon and the storyline of the DLC. As much as I know some of you were totes buzzing for a bit of DoC attention I felt like it was unnecessary and didn't really add anything to the narrative. That said, it was intended as fan-service anyway (a newcomer would have no fucking idea what was happening between Nero and Weiss, lmao). I was ambivalent towards the ending.

Until the CG started of course. Somehow that "new ending" with the gang made me feel slightly better about Remake's ending in general.

Re: Zack, I'm really excited that this confirms he's alive, even if it's an alternate timeline. But my gut feeling is that it only makes sense to go to the trouble of bringing Zack back if they're going to merge at some point, or if they're part of the same timeline. I actually hate this "timeline" chat so much lmao

I think I've decided that the whispers were invented by the team for the sole purpose of getting Zack back into the story (and giving them other creative freedoms with the future plot). I think the team came up with an idea down the line in the story that would require Zack to have survived, and they needed to find a way to make it happen. Which is how we are where we are now. I don't mind this, but it's pointless if he doesn't have some monumental impact on the old plot going forward.

More tomorrow when it's not 4am. We'll be streaming the Square Enix conference thing tonight so can discuss with those of you who want to pop on Discord.

 

[LNK]

That said, it was intended as fan-service anyway (a newcomer would have no fucking idea what was happening between Nero and Weiss, lmao)

This is why I still think Remake is interchangeable with OG in the compilation timeline. Unless we get a payoff with Nero and Weiss in remake, newcomers just have to play DoC to find out what happens to them

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Well... I just went through the opening of FFVII and compared it to the ending Church Scene. And there's a good... seven or eight people (potentially more) that crop up in both locations. There's also an indicator for "Sector 8" near an intersection. Weather it's pointing where people are coming from or going to is a bit fuzzy.

So I'd say it's very good odds that the people in the Church are people who used to live on the Plate and now are no longer on the Plate. Them either being from Sector 7/8 or going to Sector 7 seems... likely.

List of NPCs I've found in both locations...
construction workers
mako delivery men
woman with red/orange shirt
older woman with red shirt
boy with nice suit and cap
girl with dusk pink sweatshirt
man with black shirt and jeans

 

[Cae Lumis]

Another thing to consider is that perhaps if Zack was indeed time-displaced as a result of the events surrounding the Whisper Dome, then he does not necessarily have to have arrived to witness the events leading up to Sector 7's Plate Fall. Instead, he could be arriving into Sector 7 the same day as the Party leaving Midgar and arriving at Kalm, completely unaware that anything was amiss due to angle of approach he had to take to enter Midgar from the cliff side he was on when the battle ended.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Well... I just went through the opening of FFVII and compared it to the ending Church Scene. And there's a good... seven or eight people (potentially more) that crop up in both locations. There's also an indicator for "Sector 8" near an intersection. Weather it's pointing where people are coming from or going to is a bit fuzzy.

So I'd say it's very good odds that the people in the Church are people who used to live on the Plate and now are no longer on the Plate. Them either being from Sector 7/8 or going to Sector 7 seems... likely.

List of NPCs I've found in both locations...
construction workers
mako delivery men
woman with red/orange shirt
older woman with red shirt
boy with nice suit and cap
girl with dusk pink sweatshirt
man with black shirt and jeans

That's pretty interesting. Also keep in mind that one of the new Ultimanias (it was either "a walk through MIdgar" or the Material Ultimania) told us that the church in sector 5 was build for people to morn their dead loved ones so the fact that they put this information in there around the same time when they were probably working on the DLC is also kinda sus.

 

[Alex Strife]

List of NPCs I've found in both locations...
construction workers
mako delivery men
woman with red/orange shirt
older woman with red shirt
boy with nice suit and cap
girl with dusk pink sweatshirt
man with black shirt and jeans

Just to give a counter-point... I wouldn't discard them simply re-using assets. After all, this is CG* and it'd be faster, cheaper and easier to re-use the already existing models.

* That is also why I don't understand all the talk of "Church textures have changed". In theory, CG are just movie files so I don't think anyone could have extracted the textures... because CG textures shouldn't be in the game anyway. It's not real-time rendering.

 

[Claymore]

A few more non-timeline thoughts after letting it settle a bit.

SE really need to improve the implementation and timings of the mini-games / sidequests. It always feels far too abrupt and brings the overall tension and feel of the story to a grinding halt unceremoniously. They need to find a better way of introducing them without hurting the flow of the game.

If Sonon was a test for Cid, then I'm going to really enjoy playing as the foul-mouthed pilot.

I'm not sure how I feel about certain skills (like the Ninja Cannonball) being Materia. I kinda feel that they should be innately learnt, akin to the weapon proficiency system when you have synchronised with Sonon for some time. The fact that it might not ever be used again going forward just makes it redundant as a Materia (though I hope we see the move return with an eventual refined Team Attacks system they may implement in the future).

If the Sync feature is how they are going to implement AC style team up attacks, I'm more than down with that.

I love that, again, Shinra aren't stupid and were well aware of Yuffie and Sonon's infiltration. Scarlet really shined in this DLC.

The Happy Turtle music rocks. Not sure why the name was changed from Turtle's Paradise though?

I'm loving all the unique aspects of the characters which feel like it should have been in the original game. It's going to be so hard when eventually choosing your team mates.

The Whispers stopping Yuffie from entering Seventh Heaven was a neat touch. It was like "nope, we going all in on this shit lol".

Really hated the Roche addition. They hamed it up big time and it ruined the character even more. I did like that he is searching for Cloud though, as he should have been in the motorcycle chase at the end of the Remake.

So excited for Part 2.

 

[Odysseus]

I like how Roche's appearance here made a lot if people hate him even more, but I loved ever second of it lol. I guess I'm a sucker for ham, and he brings it in spades.

Until the CG started of course. Somehow that "new ending" with the gang made me feel slightly better about Remake's ending in general.

I think a lot of the existential fear people had in the wake of the ending was that the dynamic would be totally unrecognizable from the original FF7 going forward, so seeing things proceed as usual with them going to Kalm and being casual with each other rather than going on long diatribes about "destiny" is a good reassurance that FF7 is still there. I'm actually wondering how much acknowledgement the whispers are even going to get going forward. I hope it was more than just an excuse to get Zack back in the picture (and Biggs too I guess) but there's no telling until next time.

The DoC stuff was definitely fan service, but I think it also has the value of making those elements of the compilation feel more tight-knit with the original story. Now Deepground has set up, and it doesn't come from nowhere to be the excuse for a mediocre PS2 shooter game. Of course, Yuffie's reactions in Dirge now seem lacking retroactively, but that's the price you pay for these sorts of things. I wonder if Ever Crisis will address this at all.

I'm surprised it took someone so long to bring up how ridiculous it is to be having these "timeline AU" discussions in regards to FF7 btw.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I like how Roche's appearance here made a lot if people hate him even more, but I loved ever second of it lol. I guess I'm a sucker for ham, and he brings it in spades.

Dude, I’m so confused about Roche lol like what’s there to hate that we didn’t already see in the main game?

 

[Eerie]

He was so glorious in French, couldn't stop laughing all my way through his dialogue If Max' theory that he's kind of going to turn as a good guy and we're going to see him wilt away is true though, his fate will be dark.

 

[Odysseus]

Dude, I’m so confused about Roche lol like what’s there to hate that we didn’t already see in the main game?

He acts even more flamboyantly than he did in chapter 4, which some people don't like I guess. I'm just happy FF7 has some comedic relief again. I love the idea of Roche being this silly joke rival for Cloud in future parts, especially if it means more motorcycle sections. I wouldn't even mind if he became a good guy later.

 

[Shademp]

Playing up Nero's image as a spider of darkness, but without actually showing his Arachnero form, was an excellent choice. Be careful not to get caught in his web...he likes to play with his food.

In DoC, Nero's darkness was primarily depicted as diffuse orbs and waves of energy. Changing his darkness in Remake to manifest more commonly as tendrils/tentacles, simultaneously making him more like an eldritch monstrosity and a spider, goes a long way to enhance the terror. It's like the difference between the terror of a black hole versus a black hole who is also a giant, tentacled spider.

 

[Shademp]

But Nero, what about these classic Teams/Units from the online mode?

DOLCE & GABBANA​

new heppokodann​

Team_2ch​

DESTINY​

ENDLESS WAR​

CRIMSON'BULLET'​

FlyingColumnPhalanx​

SINRA​

Penetrater​

Handsome persons​

team sky​

Nero will be so devastated when he learns about "Handsome persons" and the fact he wasn't allowed to join.

/jk

 

[Odysseus]

Wow. That's a joke literally only you could have made lol.

There's a group of mid-30's Japanese men that sneeze every time you bring up their Dirge online teams, Shademp.

 

[Tetsujin]

Roche just casually hamming it up in sector 7 and making dramatic theatrical gestures at no one in particular while also being up for a round of board game shenanigans only made him more endearing to me imo lol
What an absolute weirdo

No way this guy doesn't turn face at some point.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Going back a bit to apple's post here-

But than what was Aerith's line about of suddenly having a weird feeling and than a moment later we are shown Zack how he is looking for her? (Also did anyone else realized that there seems to be some kind of connection happening between Aerith and Zack everytime it rains? First in Crisis Core...

Yeah, this is interesting. Once or twice I might have put down to mere coincidence but I can think of at least four scenes that involve sky in someway now.

The post that mentions Zack (sky), Aerith (water), Cloud (cloud) too ... I remember a fair bit of speculation that Hollow might be about Cloud, Aerith, Zack. Interesting.