SPOILERS INTERmission Chapter 2 Spoiler Discussion

[Roundhouse]

I think the end of Intergrade is signalling that we are getting a new protagonist and hero....Zack. He'll come back, charm everyone with his charisma, save Aerith, and overshadow Cloud, because that's just how he rolls. He's Steve Rogers, the key to making things right in this timeline. Cloud can be his sidekick if he wants, though. Huzzah for Zack!

 

[eleamaya]

I think the end of Intergrade is signalling that we are getting a new protagonist and hero....Zack. He'll come back, charm everyone with his charisma, save Aerith, and overshadow Cloud, because that's just how he rolls. He's Steve Rogers, the key to making things right in this timeline. Cloud can be his sidekick if he wants, though. Huzzah for Zack!

Dont worry, Cloud is Falcon/New Captain America when Zack return to his respective timeline to be with the woman he loves.

 

[kathy202]

So I finally decided to watch a full playthrough. Yuffie is utterly lovable. And that ending with Sonon and the plate fall was way better than the cheesy dialog in chapter 12 for some reason. It was just much easier to see how cruel the situation was to Yuffie. Though the transition to the ending did feel kinda abrupt.

And Scarlet's portrayal was amazing too. Competently cruel. Makes me wonder why President Shinra appears to trust Heidegger more, but I guess it's kinda like that in real life too. People trust and listen to whoever they want to often without good reasons. Or maybe Heidegger is just less likely to stab the President in the back.

And Yuffie sitting on Scarlet's cushy chair is just funny XD

 

[Noble0ne]

My thought on expecting Yuffie to be grieving in the end...

From her dealings with effects of the Wutia war, (including the CC stuff & BC stuff, where if I recall right she has younger age cameos) she likely has already experienced very much life trauma. So by the time of Intermission ending, outside of right in the moment, she probably is a bit jaded or has long adapted a way of dealing & suppressing as a character trait. The way Sonnon speaks to Yuffie about the Wutia war and, them also being with the wrong splinter cell, highlighted a tone of regard that showed he expected yuffie to understand (in a way Midgar ppl should not) horror comparable to his loss of Melffie already. So I would think for the little time she new Sonnon she probably would be humming a Chocobo theme as she leaves Midgar to continue the same mission she has been on with similar circumstances her whole life... it strikes me as consistent with how energetic she is on arrival as a kid from a war torn place. And she clearly has decided she doesn’t want to be alone on her mission anymore. I take that as a impact of Sonnons company and the failed there mission in Shinra HQ

My thoughts on part two & Zack...

I think part two will have it’s own DLC intermission staring Zack! That comes months after the game has been out. Sorta like this intergrade overhaul. In part for the sake of giving them more developing time. I think Zack will do something important in his story arch that is pivotal to the main characters story arch success and we won’t realize we could not have won without Zack until we play his arc.

Also, if part two starts out with us having to play as playing as Zack and Sephiroth on orders from Shinra to check out Neblhiem. All Before the getting cgi video flashbacks of Cloud explaining things to the squad differently, outside of the very end, with tifa giving a subtle confusion reactions. ... ... Then... That could be caaaazy... Madneficent... and I’ll take it!

 

[Noble0ne]

I can see it now...

instead of opening with a eagle above Midgar before zooming into a train for a bombing run.

it could be a opening with a overlook of Midgar before zooming out to a massive world map overview before zoom panning into the back of a the Neblhime crews mission truck. Thematic music & then one of the crew mates telling us to be ready for the monsters ahead ... and boom,, the car crashes into a beast and into fight actions we go before reaching town. After a initial fight, this can be a way to introduce open world vehicle operating mechanics in a tutorial as well.

I mean really, the Neblhiem incident is going to be dealt with early in the game for sure. And how else are they going to make a exciting start to this new game, beginning at calm, with self contained game tutorial mechanics.

but then again ... dropping straight into clouds memory with no mention of Zack would be pretty cool ... but not as cool. Or dropping into the calm hotel room with mates trying to question what just happened. But that seems really like it could be really slow paced.

 

[Shademp]

I am listening to the Dirge of Cerberus tracks on repeat. So gleeful for those tracks making it into the DLC.

 

[Wol]

I am listening to the Dirge of Cerberus tracks on repeat. So gleeful for those tracks making it into the DLC.

Masashi Hamauzu can shine even in the darkest pits.

 

[Lestat]

Please tell me when you entered deepground for the first time gackt suddenly wailed REDEEEEEEMMMPPPTTIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNN

 

[Eerie]

If anyone is interested, here is a comparison between the four languages of the game and how the VA performed:

I must say, they all sound good, but probably... English, despite being great, is the one language I prefer the least. They all did a phenomenous job, I was surprised by how good German sounds even though I don't like German lol. The French Yuffie is still my favourite by a mile though, and probably in English, to me, she doesn't sound that young? I was a bit shocked to hear her with such a voice, compared to the more kid-like one in French. The JP is great, as usual.

 

[cold_spirit]

The single hypest moment for me was hearing Fearful Happening from DC after the Crimson Mare fight. I'm talking fist in the air, shouting "Yessssss" at the ceiling.

 

[Tetsujin]

Wait, they say "moogle" in both Japanese and German here? That's odd. Whatever happened to moguri/mogry? D:

 

[Shademp]

The single hypest moment for me was hearing Fearful Happening from DC after the Crimson Mare fight. I'm talking fist in the air, shouting "Yessssss" at the ceiling.

Fearful Happening is for Kalm (Ch1) and Mountain Path to WRO HQ (Ch6). Did this one ever play in the DLC?

The tune that plays after the Crimson Mare battle (after the scene with Weiss & Nero) is "Wild Pack" (played in Ch2 of Dirge and in some Extra Missions) from the Dirge Multiplayer OST, although many of the themes in that album are used in single player content as well.

 

[Tetsujin]

I definitely remember hearing bits of Fearful Happening mixed in somewhere.

 

[cold_spirit]

Yep, just a bit of it. From 0:03 to 0:11.

 

[Shademp]

There it is! Thanks for pointing it out @cold_spirit!

Pain Sensation Level: Max is definitely Pegasus Riders. While Diabolic Creation sounds heavily inspired by the Dirge OST (1:45-1:58 and 3:44-3:57 especially) I can't match it up perfectly with any track from the OST. It's like they've taken bits of Pegasus Riders and other parts of the DoC soundtrack, heavily remixed them and meshed it all together.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Playing through this on Hard Mode, I really can't get over how fucking fun this episode is. Even doing Fort Condor on Hard Mode wasn't bad like I thought it'd be.

I legit was dreading this minigame, and somehow ended up falling in love with it. Hard Mode is surprisingly a fun mode to play in, even with just 2 members.

I cannot believe Deepground SOLDIERs are more competent here than in their own fucking game, LMAO. Another interesting nod to DC is how DG SOLDIERs use magic. Their spells are tied to bullets, and fire like projectiles just like they did in DC and it's multiplayer mode. They actually paid attention to that.

And I'm 99.99% positive that the Diabolic Creation was Professor Rayleigh. If you look at it's face and chest, they look like the remnants of something that was once a human woman. And as pointed out by others earlier, it looks similar to Heretic Hojo.

I haven't even begun replaying the actual Remake because I'm enjoying Intermission still lol...

 

[Eerie]

Thinking about Yuffie, I can't help but feel how great her characterisation has been here. It was almost non-existant in the OG. In the OG, you could feel that she was a kid and that was basically all there was to it. In Remake, you can also feel that she's very young, but there's more to it.

Here we can see at the start of the game that she not only wants Shinra down, but also Midgar. By the middle of the game, you can see that she's more hesitant because she realises that there are good guys there. By the end of the game, she's confronting the fact that Shinra is ruthless and can be quite evil if it matches its own needs. She really grows and become more empathic, and shows that she's able to care for people, after all. Sonon, on the other hand, has a grudge against Shinra and just like them is able to be quite evil if necessary I feel. He doesn't really care about Midgar being destroyed, even though he's been there for some time. They clearly used Sonon to showcase Yuffie's change, it was well done.

I wonder what it is about that mutant thing though. This... doesn't seem to be a throwaway line or something? Is it something new?

 

[Makoeyes987]

Sonon, on the other hand, has a grudge against Shinra and just like them is able to be quite evil if necessary I feel. He doesn't really care about Midgar being destroyed, even though he's been there for some time.

That's not exactly true, because even he is shaken and worried about Sector 7 when he hears of the plot to drop the plate onto the slums. He certainly wanted to try and stop them along with Yuffie.

 

[Eerie]

Mmh, maybe so. But even after he comments that they don't have to care, it's less people from Midgar, etc. I felt he was more ruthless than Yuffie. Which might be why Nero chose him, in hindsight.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Mmh, maybe so. But even after he comments that they don't have to care, it's less people from Midgar, etc. I felt he was more ruthless than Yuffie. Which might be why Nero chose him, in hindsight.

Sonon does appear ruthless but you also have to look at things from their perspective.

Shinra instigated a hostile takeover of their homeland in a bid to plunder their country and when they resisted they were brutally chopped down and conquered.

Of course Sonon would give less than two-shits about Shinra's "empire" in Midgar. The same feelings towards the innocent weren't afforded to his sister and everyone else Shinra stomped on. However, even with that in mind it's important to remember he fought and died to get out of the Shinra Building in hopes of warning AVALANCHE of Shinra's plot to crush Sector 7. I think that even with Sonon's thirst for revenge being a principal motivating factor for his character, deep down he's got a heart that can't help but care for others.

The whole episode beautifully sets up Yuffie's motivation to restore Wutai and crush Shinra by any means necessary. Sonon's dying wish, the brutally of Shinra she's witnessed as a kid, Wutai being turned into a tourist trap, and the unspeakable cruelty Shinra unleashed on their own city sets up Yuffie to hate Shinra with all her heart.

So, her deciding to pilfer the party's materia in the future because she feels they aren't taking Shinra seriously, will hold an entirely different significance which I also think is awesome for character. That's not even going into what the reunion between Yuffie and her father will be like. Yuffie has always been a favorite of mine and I'm still amazed at how much good they've done with her.

 

[Eerie]

Oh no but, I do agree with a lot of what you say. I'm just pointing at differences between Sonon and Yuffie. I feel that Sonon lives to get revenge maybe a bit too much. Yuffie grows and learns that life is also good. Not everything has to be black or white.

 

[Clement Rage]

Spoiler: Up to diabolic creation bossfight

Confirmed. Like 50% of Shinra HQ is dedicated to ginormous labyrinths for the purposes of the Execs trolling people they don't like by making them run gauntlets. Hojo's is the top 5 floors, Scarlet's is in the basement, I'm sure Heidegger has one too. Wonder what Palmer's is like?

See, this is where making infantry troopers jokes becomes a problem, because what was Scarlet's plan if the two Wutai ninjas decide to take the opportunity to put a shuriken through her back? It's not like those two troopers could stop them. She's heavily relying on 'they won't kill me because the game's not 18+' to survive.

I'll forgive a lot for a 'teenage ninjas' joke, especially as we've already had a previous character dressed as a turtle.

Deepground showing up unravels things a bit. There's nothing particularly necessary about their appearance, and it thoroughly fucks Dirge if Yuffie has prior knowledge of what DG is. Which raises the question of why the Whispers are not intervening.

Also notable is that all DG troops are officially SOLDIER, just the cheap knockoff mass produced versions.
I didn't go through it frame by frame or anything, but the DG gender balance appears to be mysteriously disappeared.

Nero's darkness is less scary here, in Dirge you didn't even have time to scream, just poof, gone.

Please, writers, don't let Rufus be the mole, but they're going to do this, aren't they?

 

[Odysseus]

Like I've said before, somehow, not once does Dirge ever directly imply Yuffie DOESN'T know what DG is (mostly because she's introduced well into the conflict and thus would already know the situation with or without prior knowledge lol.) The bigger issue is, of course, her non-reaction to Nero, but while that's definitely retroactively pretty weird, it isn't in of itself a plot hole either, so I'm guessing Square called it "close enough." Hence, no whispers. Granted, there's still plenty of remake left to go, and I feel like Sonon will be involved again in some capacity.

Edit: Like, I'm not saying this isn't retcon city and that there aren't retroactive plot issues, I just think it's interesting what Square's tolerance lever for this sort of thing is when compared to something that constitutes a "change" the whispers would intervene in. Evidently this all happened within acceptable parameters.

 

[Tetsujin]

For me this isnt a retcon because I simply don't see Remake in the same continuity regardless of timeline shenanigans and Whisper plot ghosts. Like, Yuffie infiltrating DG during the OG simply doesn't happen as far as I'm concerned so it doesn't bother me.

I see the Remake continuity as an almost but not exact duplicate of the original Compilation essentially. It's almost the same but some details like meeting Jessie's parents or Yuffie being in Midgar are new.

That's how I compartmentalize it.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

I keep watching the new ending, so I have more stuff to ramble on
I'm more convince then ever that Zack is in the same timeline as the gang.
Because what do we know about the end of FF7r?
First of all 2 characters are alive who should have been dead. Biggs and Zack.
Where is Biggs located in the ending of Part one? It's in the orphanage
of Sector 5.
What happens before he awakes in that scene? A little gold particle flows into his body.
Where did we see that before? In DoC. We see in the ending a light particle flow into the chick with the glasses. And what was the explanation from the devs for that scene?
They said this was suppose to symbolize that Shalunas story wasn't over yet and that there were still things to come for her. So FF7r coping that move for Biggs tells us that there are also still things to come for him. So who just walked up into the same Sector as he? A person with the same sword as Cloud. A sword Biggs actually commented on and would narrative wise recognize? Well it's our boy Zack.
I really could see Biggs be the one who kinda fills Zack in into what's going on in the story. So he understands that things are somehow off.
The only mystery that remains is the two Clouds and two buster swords which seems to make more sense if this is a AU. BUT what if because the team was in the singularity they weren't affected from the changes that happened to the planet, hence the two Clouds and Buster Sword paradox?