We’re on the same page there, where we disagree is on the conclusion drawn from that idea
Yeah, that's what it looks like
But this is shown after Cloud and co. leave the Singularity, so I don’t see how that precludes both events from occurring at different points of the same timeline
Because it's a
paradox and the Ultimania says outright that if Zack is alive, Cloud shouldn't have the Buster Sword. Then it specifies that these two parties in fact
do cross paths; Zack holding an unconscious Cloud as they pass Cloud and Aerith. Yet they do
not cross paths within the same time and space. That's a detail not being raised idily. It's a Doylist analysis of how the scene plays out and its contextual meaning. It's not an ambiguous concept. Unfolding these concepts are the entire point of these book series, after all.
Just because I regard something as symbolism doesn’t mean there still couldn’t be some greater significance to it. Obviously there’s a reason they showed us what they did, all I’m saying is that I don’t think the two Clouds literally passed each other at the same time, but rather maybe we’re watching something that already happened months ago in the altered past of this new “unknown” future presented in a symbolic way.
The Ultimania itself even presents this in a way for us to speculate what this means by raising these same kinds of questions, so to take a suggestion from an interview and run with it as a literal fact before the story even explains itself just seems weird to me.
It's not an "interview," it's a defining of the scene. The explanations from the "FF7R Ultimania Secrets Revealed" are not just interview commentary randomly spitballing. And you're taking the sensationalized, questioning writing style of the text too literally. They're not raising questions meaningless questions that go nowhere, they're pointing out important concepts. This is how S-E Ultimania texts discuss their subjects for continuing series; it's been that way since Kingdom Hearts and it's that way now. Those points aren't simply for pondering, they're relevant.
The plot hole you keep bringing up though is based on a misunderstanding of my suggestion. There doesn’t need to be an explanation as to why Zack is three months behind everybody else because what we know of Zack’s last stand already took place three months before the beginning of FF7.
What we see at the end of Intermission is another story. If what you say is true, now you’d have to explain why there’s a group of crying people inside Aerith’s church immediately after Cloud and Zack reach Midgar rather than months later, after the platefall. And also why we’re being shown this after witnessing the platefall from Yuffie’s perspective.
There
does need to be an explanation because the Intermission ending that shows Cloud, Zack and the others are a continuation of the ending from the FFVII-R. So why would Zack, who was shown carrying Cloud to Midgar during September, suddenly be in December when his previous corresponding point in time was September after the destruction of the Singularity? How did the time jump?
To answer your question about children crying in Aerith's church, it's simple. There's clearly
something wrong. And people associating those children with the plate fall are missing the point of that scene entirely. Look at the scenery and design of the Church in Zack's ending; it doesn't match what that church looks like in FFVII-R.
The details are wildly different.
There are only
6 broken down pews, nestled near the front of the church, during FFVII-R.
Pay attention to the ending. There are several pews when Zack enters, with people sitting on them,
all the way near the entrance door of said church.
The entry archway and walls of said entrance to the church are a clean,
polished white in Zack's ending.
The entry archway is a
dull, dirty brownish color during FFVII-R. Just look at yourself if you think it's not true.
The brick walls of the church are clean and white in the ending with Zack.
The brick walls of the church in FFVII-R are dirty brown.
I don't understand how no one's noticing this.
They're not the same. church That's not what the church looked like in FFVII-R.
But you wanna know when the Church
looked like that?
The church in Zack's ending is during Crisis Core. The details placed in the Church's setting that are clearly different from how it appeared in the Remake are 100% intentional. That's not the church during the present of FFVII-R. Which again, corresponds with Zack being in his timeline, and his time frame, after the ending of the Remake.
So how did Zack jump from bringing Cloud to Midgar in September right to reaching Aerith’s church in December? He didn’t, and I don’t think anybody ever suggested that lol what I’ve been saying the whole time is that something might have happened to prevent Zack from reaching Aerith’s church right away. Time just…went on for him. Maybe.
If time just "went on for him" why would Aerith be in sync with Zack's entrance into the church and realizing that something wrong? The entire point is to show that Aerith is somehow able to sense and feel that something's off while Zack encounters these anomalies within his existence. They can't be experiencing that if they aren't in corresponding points in progression as shown from when they existed the Singularity.
Like I said, Intergrade takes place during the world before the Singularity event so of course we’re still going to see the Beagle Stamp. No, we don’t see the Terrier in Cloud’s time after the Singularity but we don’t see the Beagle either, do we?
This only requires common sense. The writers have said explicitly that Yuffie will run into Cloud and the others in Part 2. If Yuffie exists in the universe where Stamp is still a Beagle dog, then it stands to reason Cloud and the others are too. Because they have to meet. Unless you think Yuffie or Cloud and the others are going to have to punch a hole into space-time and then cross over accordingly.
You’re right that we only see the Terrier in Zack’s past, but it’s in his new past. We agree there. That doesn’t answer my question as to whether we’ve created a new branching parallel timeline or we’ve moved to an altered reality.
Why would Cloud and gang be in the Terrier universe? Maybe because we just changed the past through a singularity and created a world where Zack survived? Otherwise, the burden is on you to explain how the two timelines are going to intersect after the Whispers are defeated.
I don't have to explain how they will intersect; that's not my premise or desire to explain. I'm explaining how these are two different timelines at two different points in time. How they'll cross is unknown, I'm just going to wait for it to happen, because clearly, there
is connection. Aerith is sensing the anomalies. These characters are shown to cross paths in the ending. It's being foreshadowed.
Why is Aerith not in her church when Zack arrives, and why are there several people there crying instead? The same way you want evidence, you also have to explain why we see the platefall from Yuffie’s perspective and then we see Zack reaching the church at the same time that Cloud and the gang are outside Midgar. Like yeah, we agree on a lot more than you realize but is “Cloud and Zack are on two separate timelines that are temporally displaced from one another” really that much less convoluted than “Cloud changed the current timeline and now Zack is alive”?
Again, look at the church. Look at the details of the church, and then go back to chapter 8 and compare how they look.
Then look at the church in Crisis Core.
I'd do comparison images but I'm still playing and I cba to do that for you
I'll probably make a post about it later. Suffice to say, these churches are not in the same time period. And there's no Sector 7 plate fall during Crisis Core.
Sonon dies
