Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge's Roles in the Remake Thread

[Jairus]

What do you mean?

 

[Knights of the Round]

@Ryvius - that avatar is hilarious.

 

[Jairus]

Alright, watched the final trailer, and I have some venting to do.

Spoiler

I'm a bit disappointed that the dinner at Jessie's house is with the whole gang and not just Cloud, Jessie, and her parents. It would've been an opportunity to build attraction between the two. But no, SE had to stick the whole gang there instead. Do they ever do anything apart from each other? Or are we always stuck being with them as a group? I'd just like to be able to have a sidequest or mission or two where it's just Cloud and Jessie and them alone, without Biggs and Wedge or anyone else.

And it seems with the dinner scene being the whole gang, that would rule out ever seeing Jessie in another outfit. SE comes up with nine dresses for the Wall Market sequence, but it seems like they won't let Jessie have even one for any scenes of her own. Did it ever even occur to SE that she's a girl too and that people might be interested in seeing her the same way we see Aerith and Tifa in Wall Market, even if it's in a totally separate scene or part of the game? Just so she can have what they have?

It's like SE is deliberately undercutting opportunities to just let her and Cloud have any scenes together without other characters barging in or to give her things that Aerith and Tifa have, like the opportunity to dress differently for a few scenes. And I'm worried now that they haven't expanded the flower choice to include her as option even though it's something they easily could have done and should have occurred to them since there's no way Jessie would not see the flower during her time with Cloud on the train and they have to have known that. And that's before Tifa and Marlene ever even lay eyes on it. But they probably put in some lame excuse just to keep her from being included in the flower choice, if them shafting her on the dinner scene by having the whole gang there instead of just her and Cloud is any indication.

And are we always stuck with Tifa when doing sidequests (as recent clips have shown), or can we choose who we go with or to go alone? It would be nice to have the choice - you'd talk to who you want to go with you, whether it's Tifa, Barret, or one of the trio (as guest fighters) - or go alone. I'd just like it to not be forced, is all.

It was nice, though, that Jessie was shown right after Cloud's mom made the comment about girls being interested in him. Subtle sign that she's the one to watch, maybe? I don't know. He didn't look too interested in Aerith in the park, wasn't even looking at her most of the time until she got up in his face to see his eyes, and even then he was startled rather than interested. But it would've been nice for them to have shown just one clip of Cloud and Jessie together in the trailer.

Rufus looked pretty cool, though. Looks to be a fun fight.

 

[Jimmy XH]

Alright, watched the final trailer, and I have some venting to do.

Spoiler

I'm a bit disappointed that the dinner at Jessie's house is with the whole gang and not just Cloud, Jessie, and her parents. It would've been an opportunity to build attraction between the two. But no, SE had to stick the whole gang there instead. Do they ever do anything apart from each other? Or are we always stuck being with them as a group? I'd just like to be able to have a sidequest or mission or two where it's just Cloud and Jessie and them alone, without Biggs and Wedge or anyone else.

And it seems with the dinner scene being the whole gang, that would rule out ever seeing Jessie in another outfit. SE comes up with nine dresses for the Wall Market sequence, but it seems like they won't let Jessie have even one for any scenes of her own. Did it ever even occur to SE that she's a girl too and that people might be interested in seeing her the same way we see Aerith and Tifa in Wall Market, even if it's in a totally separate scene or part of the game? Just so she can have what they have?

It's like SE is deliberately undercutting opportunities to just let her and Cloud have any scenes together without other characters barging in or to give her things that Aerith and Tifa have, like the opportunity to dress differently for a few scenes. And I'm worried now that they haven't expanded the flower choice to include her as option even though it's something they easily could have done and should have occurred to them since there's no way Jessie would not see the flower during her time with Cloud on the train and they have to have known that. And that's before Tifa and Marlene ever even lay eyes on it. But they probably put in some lame excuse just to keep her from being included in the flower choice, if them shafting her on the dinner scene by having the whole gang there instead of just her and Cloud is any indication.

And are we always stuck with Tifa when doing sidequests (as recent clips have shown), or can we choose who we go with or to go alone? It would be nice to have the choice - you'd talk to who you want to go with you, whether it's Tifa, Barret, or one of the trio (as guest fighters) - or go alone. I'd just like it to not be forced, is all.

It was nice, though, that Jessie was shown right after Cloud's mom made the comment about girls being interested in him. Subtle sign that she's the one to watch, maybe? I don't know. He didn't look too interested in Aerith in the park, wasn't even looking at her most of the time until she got up in his face to see his eyes, and even then he was startled rather than interested. But it would've been nice for them to have shown just one clip of Cloud and Jessie together in the trailer.

Rufus looked pretty cool, though. Looks to be a fun fight.

Spoiler: The Scene From The Trailer

Just re-watching it, there's a fourth plate on the table. Now it might just be her mother's seat at the table but it might be a space for everyone's favourite hero. Also is that a bag of Little Stamp crisps? And drinking out of a Shinra mug?

 

[Alex Strife]

Regarding the dinner; actual Spoiler from the game incoming. Read at your own discretion.

Spoiler

Actually, Cloud does not join the rest of the gang for dinner.

 

[Jairus]

Then what's the point of the scene? Why are we even there?

Spoiler

Nomura was misleading in what he said, because it implied Cloud would be part of it. They include this scene with Jessie's family, and Cloud's not even in it? Does SE hate having him spend any time with her at all? Is the game just Aerith and Tifa every five seconds? Is SE so petty, sadistic, and obsessed with them that they won't let Jessie get even a hint of attention from him or any moments truly alone with him outside those few redone from the OG? Are they trying to deny her? What were they thinking when they kept him out of this scene? Why couldn't they just let him be part of it? Doesn't he eat at all, ever? Or does he live on air? This is really upsetting me, and I know it shouldn't, but I can't help it. They take what could have been a place and scene for potential attraction between them, kick him out of it, and give the scene to her friends instead. What's the deal with that?

 

[Eerie]

Dude, I have seen this scene and knew you’d be disappointed. But don’t lash out, there are also things that you will like. Pass judgement once you’ll have finished the game.

 

[Jairus]

I hope you're right, I just don't want to feel like they're stomping on Clessie and deliberately going out of their way to keep them apart and deny them any moments or growth together. I still feel that Nomura was being misleading when he spoke about the scene. He should have said honestly Cloud's part in it and not led us on.

 

[Odysseus]

And so the tensions build. Not gonna bother reading what the spoiler tags say, but I'm guessing the dinner scene isn't everything we were expecting it to be? Damn. I was actually kind of expecting it to happen after Jessie died, with Avalanche meeting her parents to inform them of what happened. Guess I was wrong. Gonna be a shitty six days...

 

[Jairus]

No, not for me, anyway. SE wasted a potential opportunity there, imo. Like they were deliberately trying to spite the Clessie ship. That's what it feels like, at least. They've said they believe everyone will be satisfied by the time the game's over, but does that include those who want Cloud and Jessie to have some meaningful interactions and growth together, even a bit of mutual attraction? Or did they simply forget about them? I hate that I'm sort of resenting Aerith and Tifa for all the extra time and attention they've probably been given with him which Jessie seems to be being denied at every turn. At least it feels that way to me.

 

[Eerie]

As I said wait to have played the game first before complaining. I guarantee you will love some scenes.

 

[Jairus]

Thanks, that does help. I just hope it's not all one-sided flirting on her part and he's actually at least somewhat responsive to her eventually. And it also depends on how or if her feelings are ever resolved, too.

And like I said, I'm tired of seeing the trio always seemingly tied together at the hip and never each of them doing their own individual things or having their own individual scenes. I really hope there's a mission or sidequest or two that Cloud and Jessie can do all by themselves without the guys or anyone else with them. And a few new scenes with just the two of them, not just their OG moments from the train but something like the scene with Aerith in the park where they're just sitting or standing together and talking, interacting, and such, with no mission or action going on at the time. Just character growth and development between them.

 

[Odysseus]

Yeah, I'm not so dedicated of a Clessie as #1 Jessie fan here is, but even I want something. I'm gonna trust Eerie that there's stuff for us desperate weirdos too.
anybody know how to induce a week-long coma?

 

[Jairus]

The new trailer did possibly drop a subtle Clessie hint, though it might just be wishful thinking on my part. Just the order certain clips were shown in, with certain comments made in one being followed up by Jessie being the first thing we see in the next clip, which could have been purposefully done as a direct reference and implication of the comments made in the clip right before her.

 

[Jairus]

Also, another thought about the dinner:

Spoiler

I hope Jessie gets on Cloud for not being there. I'm sure she was probably disappointed. What was he doing, just standing around outside? Why wouldn't he take part in it? Where else could he go? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Alex Strife]

Not spoilers coming, but being the opinion of someone who's playing the game, I'll choose to spoiler it just in case.

Spoiler

I'm not particularly a "Clessie" and I'd rather not pairing them together. That said, I think they're doing a good job with Jessie. She's flirty, no doubt. Playful, for sure. Charismatic and funny! Jessie fans are going to love her presence in the game, of that I have no doubt. As for "Clessie" stuff... as you would expect, Jessie's forward and Cloud's passive. You do at least have one scene (so far) where you can choose what to reply to Jessie which gives the result of a rather happy girl.

This part is a bit spoiler-y:

Spoiler

Wedge does have a bit of dialogue talking to Cloud where he basically implies Jessie's playfulness and flirtatiousness is, I quote: "Just a game for her", reminding both Cloud and the audience that Jessie's an actress so she likes to "play" a role. To me, that means she's flirting out of fun but not necessarily out of LOVE. But then again, that's what I've always felt since I don't believe in love at first sight. So I might be biased.

Non-spoiler conclusion of all this: I'm liking very much the Avalanche guys in general and Jessie in particular (singling her out for the various fans of her!).

Also, another thought about the dinner:

Spoiler

I hope Jessie gets on Cloud for not being there. I'm sure she was probably disappointed. What was he doing, just standing around outside? Why wouldn't he take part in it? Where else could he go? It just doesn't make any sense.

Spoiler

She's the one who asks Cloud not to be there. Don't worry, it'll make sense in the game. But while we were all assuming it was all kind of a leisure visit, it really wasn't. So that's why. Meaning Jessie gives Cloud a reason not to be there, while the others DO have a reason to be there.

 

[Jairus]

Spoiler

Just because Wedge said that doesn't necessarily mean it's true, though. It could just be his impression. And even if it was, there's nothing saying she couldn't develop actual feelings for him. I just hate that they seem to be diminishing, dismissing, and gutting her canonical interest in him just as an excuse to avoid complications with Aerith and Tifa. It's like no one wants to believe that sometimes flirting can have actual feelings behind it. And if she was playing a role, why would she go on about him when she isn't even talking to him, like how she did to Biggs at the start of the demo? And you only ever get one chance to decide how to respond to her in the entire game? That's all? Aerith and Tifa probably get tons, I bet. And if the choice you mentioned is the one about her disguise, that's just OG stuff and they didn't bother to add anything new. We also know that Wedge doesn't always get things right, because he thinks Cloud's a believer at the beginning during the Reactor 1 mission when he's clearly not. And SE could have written the story to allow Cloud to be at the dinner with her. They didn't have to write it the way they did.

SE just hates Jessie having real attraction and feelings for Cloud, don't they? I guess that must never be allowed to happen. No, only PC girls can ever be allowed to feel something for the hero. Venting, sorry, I'm just really irritated at how they seem to be handling Cloud and Jessie's interactions and completely disregarding the established canonicity of her having actual feelings for him and possibly replacing them with this pretend joke of a flirting facade just as an excuse to avoid giving her and Cloud any real moments of attraction between them because A & T must never be touched, oh no! Does he ever even call Jessie by name? Or does SE refuse to even give her that much? Also, Cloud being passive doesn't necessarily mean he can't be attracted to her. He may just not know how to respond. But no, we can't possibly have that, can we? Cloud actually showing her some attention and attraction would be THE END OF FF7R!

Gah, I don't mean to be weird, I'm just really irritated and upset by all this.

 

[Jairus]

I'm just tired of SE seemingly kicking Clessie in the teeth every chance they get... sorry, more venting.

Spoiler

Jessie's feelings for Cloud in the OG were real, and her feelings for him in the remake should be just as real. Having Wedge say what he did is a complete violation of the OG's canon. What he said potentially guts and denies any possible moments Cloud and Jessie may have in the remake.

 

[Alex Strife]

Re: choices:

Spoiler

Bear in mind I'm only getting to the start of Reactor 5, but I haven't seen a whole lot of dialogue choices. 5 or 6 at the most. From memory; 1 with Aerith (buying flower), 1 with Tifa (something related to her clothes), 1 with Jessie (how to reply to a bit of her flirting) and maybe one or two I'm not remembering right now? Definitely not a lot.

The rest:

Spoiler

I agree with you in that Wedge's words are not gospel (although his words at the start are not so much meant to show he gets things wrong but rather that he's a softie, that he likes people getting along and he tries to bring Cloud closer to them). But that's the classic Square thing (welcome to your version of the Love Triangle, where nothing is ever clear enough) where you can interpret things in one direction... but not definitively. The only thing that bothers me from the reasoning you often show is assuming Jessie had feelings right away. I think at first it should be attraction only. But of course, she can develop feelings later on. Cloud starts off a bit hard-ass but softens just enough for it to be believable.

As for why she would talk to Biggs about Cloud? Ok, I'm not saying it IS like this. But it COULD be that she wants to make Biggs jealous. Again, nothing in the game has made me think that's the case. Just saying there could be such a possibility, it would subvert the expectations and surprise quite a few people.

Cloud's dialogue choice with Jessie is related to a bit of flirting from her side. You can shut her off or you can be a bit more inviting (Cloud-style).

My take as a "neutral" party on this is that they're showing enough from Jessie so that Clessie fans can take it as genuine interest from her... while people who don't care for it can kind of easily brush it aside. As I said, typical Square. But their interactions are cool. Jessie's very flirty, Cloud's awkward. But obviously he cares. It's endearing to watch. And again, if you forget about any "Clessie" preferences for a moment, she's been handled very well (so far at least) and she'll get quite a few new fans.

And I feel that as far as NPC's go, Avalanche are getting TONS of attention. They appear almost as much as the playable characters, which is frankly very refreshing. You may not control them in combat but they feel as part of your team.

I'm playing with Japanese audio and English text but I think in both cases he says her name. But don't take my word for it!

Relax. I never judged whether Cloud is or not meant to be attracted to Jessie. I merely said he is passive. That's just the statement of a fact. IF he is attracted to her, I don't think he has shown it. But he DOES show what at the time is seen as uncharacteristic interest in her. In other words, she's the first of the Avalanche Trio that Cloud shows an interest in, through some interactions with Biggs.

While I haven't gotten that far, if you're expecting very overt romantic overtones to be shown between Cloud and Jessie, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment. Bear in mind in the OG not even Tifa and Aerith get a very clear picture either on how Cloud feels, so...

Unwanted piece of advice: lower your expectations and let the game surprise you if anything good happens. Else you'll end up hating a game you would have loved otherwise!

I'm just tired of SE seemingly kicking Clessie in the teeth every chance they get... sorry, more venting.

Spoiler

Jessie's feelings for Cloud in the OG were real, and her feelings for him in the remake should be just as real. Having Wedge say what he did is a complete violation of the OG's canon. What he said potentially guts and denies any possible moments Cloud and Jessie may have in the remake.

Spoiler

I think calling it a "violation of the OG's canon" is a bit out there. We KNOW Jessie was attracted to Cloud. She may or may not have been IN LOVE with him. Anything beyond that falls into the realms of headcanon. But then again, Wedge's words are not "Word of God". It's just a character's opinion. You could also potentially have Wedge declare she is madly in love with Cloud... and not be true. Right?

That said. All of these are MY perceptions on an INCOMPLETE run of the game. With how many surprises I've had so far, I think they can still surprise me some more in the hours to come.

 

[Jairus]

I wasn't expecting anything overt, just for him not to be completely passive and to show even a little something toward her. I know SE's never been overt even with the classic LTD in the OG. And what I meant was that I didn't want her flirting to be empty, is all, but to have some genuine attraction behind it. I can understand her having just attraction at first, that's fine. I just think it could still grow into actual feelings by the time of the plate collapse, though. I wasn't expecting to control them in combat, but if they're AI guests like Red, that's great! And about what you said about Cloud being passive, I see what you mean. But keep in mind, that very interest in her can be seen as a form of attraction in and of itself. And I'm glad to know that he really does care about her, that's very reassuring. Thanks, Alex.

And yeah, what you said in your last spoiler tag is true. I wasn't ever saying she had to be in love with him from the start. Just that there was some attraction there and that her flirting wasn't empty, that's all.

 

[Odysseus]

I don't even need full-on romance to happen, I just don't want cloud to act like an aloof dick to her the entire time. I'd like to see him grow to care more, so her loss actually meaningfully effects him, even if he doesn't come out and say it.

 

[Jairus]

Well if Alex's response is anything to go by, Ody, I don't think we have to worry about that.

 

[Odysseus]

The spoiler tags mock me...

Edit: Oh shit this was my 1000th post! shoulda saved it for something a little more interesting... Oh well!

 

[Alex Strife]

I don't even need full-on romance to happen, I just don't want cloud to act like an aloof dick to her the entire time. I'd like to see him grow to care more, so her loss actually meaningfully effects him, even if he doesn't come out and say it.

I think you won't have to worry about that! Square did a good job with

Spoiler

showing that Cloud cares for them despite his hard exterior. They take the initiative but he responds well enough.

Also, I'm trying to be intentionally vague with my comments (most of the time anyway) so as to not spoil things too much. I'm also trying to choose my words well so that things are not misunderstood!

 

[Jessie Rito]

The spoiler tags mock me...

Edit: Oh shit this was my 1000th post! shoulda saved it for something a little more interesting... Oh well!

Congrats I guess ^^° here is a bomb ?