@Odysseus I know the real reason why he's doing it as well since I used to frequent the thread it was brought up, I just never brought it up because I felt it would be going too far and that he should be the one to say it. But it's obvious that it's not about Jessie at all and he needs professional help. There's no shame in that. What he's doing is totally normal in response to a trauma like that but what isn't normal and what I find so irritating is that he won't recognize he has a problem.
I think one day I will be able to entertain thoughts of this character again, but it's gonna take a little while.
I would use the Cloud “get help” gif, but I think it’s a little too serious for that. I concur that medical mental health assistance is needed here, and Jessie is only a symptom.
Shademp is setting a good example for this thread.
Jairus, threads don't magically make themselves. I made the Turks and Rufus thread. If you want Jessie, Biggs and Wedge to have a thread, make one. The people who want to post there will do so. It's not as if the entire membership of TLS is posting in the Turks thread; I think there's maybe 5 or 6 people who post there on a regular basis. And I'll say this: fond as I am of the Turks, I didn't seriously expect the entire Remake to be about them, nor did I expect to see Aerith running off into the sunset with Tseng or Tifa hooking up Rude. That kind of wish fulfilment has to stay in fanfic, where it belongs.
Also, you need to understand that being open to what someone is saying isn't the same thing as agreeing with what they're saying. I have no doubt that for you the Remake would have been a better game if it had contained all the things you wished for. But it wouldn't have been a better game for me.
Look, Jairus, you dug this hole for yourself. If you'd played nice and kept your Jessie fixation in check we could have had a nice little clique here like the Turks have, but that's not what you did. You argued with everyone at every turn, derailing every goddamn thread you became a part of (see this very thread) and told people how they should feel, how the game should be, and that they're the ones being unreasonable. Now Jessie is a tainted subject here, nobody wants to deal with the baggage she has now. I like her, I wanted to talk about her, but I can't do that here anymore because of you. I had to hang up the coat and let it go. I'm the goddamn potato man now (no I'm still not explaining what that means.) I was trying to be nice, I really was, but I can't deal with this anymore. You didn't learn a thing from that 6 week ban, and at the rate you're going it's just gonna happen again.
Also, I'm tired of being the only person who know why you act like this to begin with. I think you'd do well to explain to everyone else. People here are nice mostly, they'll listen.
Nobody's stopping you from talking about her, Ody. I'm just saying how I feel things could've been, and I get shouted down for it. Why is simply responding to what people say wrong? Just once I'd like to have someone here agree with me. Just once.
And I think there is a place for a Jessie / AVALANCHE group here - a passionate one at that. But you gotta learn from the mistakes of the past.
If you express your love of Jessie in a healthy way, I’m sure plenty of people would be content with it. Doing it in a destructive, compulsive manner doesn’t help them, nor does it help you, ultimately. I can’t imagine it feels good to lash out like this.
I don’t want to see you get banned again. Please learn from the past and express your love for Jessie in a more healthy manner.
All jokes aside Jairus, are you able to step back a little and look at how much energy you put into this topic? I'm not trying to police your interests or anything. I've never really engaged with you. However, looking at your posts over the course of several months, it does come across as a little strange, maybe even a little concerning
Like, I get it. Many of us are bored as shit, not being able to leave the house normally. Still, the thought of someone being this hyper-focused on a minor character who.... at the end of the day, isn't all that important. It's kinda weird. I'm not trying to be rude, as it seems there might be something more going on than meets the eye. That being said, the amount of vindication you have for this particular subject - surely you can see how this can make people feel exhausted at the very least, or uncomfortable at the very worst?
I mean Jessie is cool and all. I like Jessie. She's hot. I'm all about that waifu-love. But you know, sometimes waifu-lovin' runs into this not-so-chill realm. When that happens, things tend to stop smelling so good
I wouldn't put so much energy into if people wouldn't shoot down my view but simply let it be and not tell me all the reasons they think it's wrong or can't work. How do you think it feels hearing that all the time? It doesn't help.
No it doesn't. And the story didn't have to be written to be so heavy-handed Cloti. I know you worship her, but you're overemphasizing the importance of early introductions. Aerith couldn't have her flower-selling moment to herself because Tifa had to butt in with her Cloti-specific flower meaning. There should've been no initial bias toward any of the three girls. And it is possible that Cloud could've had at least a little attraction for Jessie - watch his eye contact with her for one. He's actually comfortable enough with her to initiate it in the elevator and hold it until she's the one who looks away. And when she gives him the materia, she has to move it for him to see it because his gaze is so fixed on her. And in Reactor 1, she's the one who gets the most emotion out of him. She's also the first one to get him to smile. There's a lot more, but because it's not hammer-over-your-head obvious, it can be easy to miss. The very fact that he could've been willing to consider accepting her date invitation shows he could have at least a little interest in her. If he didn't, the no promises response wouldn't ever have been an option. So give us the chance to give her the flower if we wanted to wouldn't have hurt anything. I know you want Tifa to have everything, but she's not the only girl in this game.
But seriously, your argument doesn't make any sense. You could count the number of seconds Jessie and Cloud flirted prior to the Seventh Heaven scene. Making it so that you'd want to give Jessie the flower would take away from the way the scene as presented is designed and written. It was made to showcase Tifa and Marlene. You don't need to be a fan of the character or obsessed to know that.
I meant a dress as in seeing her in a flashback to her time on stage, where it would make sense. Not in the current time. You misunderstood me.
Trust me, I know what you mean. I'm saying that going to the effort of designing models/clothing for a character who appears in one scene and won't be reused anywhere is counter to the development/design philosophy the dev team was going for.
No, the Gold Saucer flashback is meant to show her history, not simply tell it. "Show, don't tell," is a basic storytelling rule.
Nothing in the story is better served by a pointless flashback showing things that were summarized in a few sentences, and frankly, weren't all that critical to her behaviour in the game to begin with.
Seeing her acting on stage in a dress in a flashback is much different and far more impactful than simply having Biggs talk about it.
Again, that's an entire sequence, gameplay area, lines/models designed for a scene that's going to be... what, 30 seconds? A minute? For a sequence involving an area that doesn't show up until later in the series (of remake installments), is a critical area and may not even have been designed yet?
And the only area that would be required to be designed would be the stage itself, possibly the first few rows of the audience, and maybe a backstage area for if it went as far as showing her hearing about her dad's accident. That's hardly the entire Gold Saucer and wouldn't require much to update for future games in the series. Don't be afraid to let someone other than Tifa get some spotlight, okay?
It doesn't matter to me who does or doesn't get the spotlight in a game. Some of my favourite moments in video games have involved side characters doing cool or unexpected things.
You have a character (Jessie) who had so much additional content made for her that people seriously consider her to be a better love interest for the main character than the "official pairings", which is no small feat, but you're like the kid at Christmas who got a new car and screams that it wasn't the exact shade of blue that he wanted.
Lol nah bruh. To quote you, "you're putting words in my mouth. Please don't do that."
I gave up trying to have an honest, civil discussion with you months ago, dude. I'd tell you to not even bother responding to this, but at this point I know you well enough to know you can't not say something. You are straight-up obsessed, to the point you drive others off. When you were "away" for 6 weeks, you should have taken that opportunity to reflect on what led up to it, and how you might change future interactions to avoid a repeat. It's apparent that you haven't. So forgive me if I disregard anything you spew at me. Or don't, I really don't care either way. Go ahead and work yourself into a frothing rage, but the only one who suffers is you.
But seriously, your argument doesn't make any sense. You could count the number of seconds Jessie and Cloud flirted prior to the Seventh Heaven scene. Making it so that you'd want to give Jessie the flower would take away from the way the scene as presented is designed and written. It was made to showcase Tifa and Marlene. You don't need to be a fan of the character or obsessed to know that.
Wrong. They had a number of interactions, and if you paid attention, you'd have seen he gave her a faint little smile after she gave him the materia. Watch how his mouth moves from his typical expressionless frown to having the corners slightly turned up for a moment. It's small, but it's there. The beginnings of a connection. Also, he could've easily swatted her arm away when she put her finger on his mouth, but he didn't. He let her do it and didn't force her off him. And there could've been two alternate arrival scenes, one for if he held onto the flower and one for if he let Jessie have it on the train. The point is that letting us have that option gives us the choice, lets us decide how to proceed. And gives us the opportunity to do something new, something we couldn't before. The games's name is FFVII Remake, not Every Scene Must Be Cloti.
Trust me, I know what you mean. I'm saying that going to the effort of designing models/clothing for a character who appears in one scene and won't be reused anywhere is counter to the development/design philosophy the dev team was going for.
You don't know it wouldn't be reused. You're simply assuming. It could've been used again if Jessie were to get a Gold Saucer date of her own, for the play - which as an actual actress, would be a much different experience for Cloud do it with her than with the others.
Nothing in the story is better served by a pointless flashback showing things that were summarized in a few sentences, and frankly, weren't all that critical to her behaviour in the game to begin with.
It's not pointless. Showing what happened is more impactful than simply telling it. Or should we not have seen the devastation in Sector 8 and only heard about it secondhand? There's a clear difference. And it did affect her behavior, as Nojima pointed out. He designed her with the mannerisms of an actress. Showing her past and what happened (at least as far as her hearing about her dad's accident while she's working as an actress) would have only added to her character. And there are many who want to see that.
Again, that's an entire sequence, gameplay area, lines/models designed for a scene that's going to be... what, 30 seconds? A minute? For a sequence involving an area that doesn't show up until later in the series (of remake installments), is a critical area and may not even have been designed yet?
As I said, only a part of an area, not the entire thing. But you wouldn't have a problem with it if it was for Tifa. They showed Nibelheim in a short flashback, so what makes a single part of the Gold Saucer any different?
It doesn't matter to me who does or doesn't get the spotlight in a game. Some of my favourite moments in video games have involved side characters doing cool or unexpected things.
Then show me by not arguing against any idea or attempt to give Jessie more attention.
You have a character (Jessie) who had so much additional content made for her that people seriously consider her to be a better love interest for the main character than the "official pairings", which is no small feat, but you're like the kid at Christmas who got a new car and screams that it wasn't the exact shade of blue that he wanted.
I like what we were given, I just see the potential for what wasn't and what could still be. And people like you here constantly harping on me for my view instead of leaving it alone seem to want to take that away from her and not even consider what could be possible.
People here had the same reaction when I announced I was making pictures of that cursed ship lol
I'm making a full comic featuring eye nipples, tentacles, decapitation porn and more.
Jenova is versatile like that.
Weren't you writing about that? Man, I don't have much free time these days but I plan on reading it.
But it's so long I don't know when I'll be able to do it....
People here had the same reaction when I announced I was making pictures of that cursed ship lol
I'm making a full comic featuring eye nipples, tentacles, decapitation porn and more.
Jenova is versatile like that.
Like a minute of screentime is devoted to that, if that. Not worth the effort of placing an extra scene in. You know what? I'm going to write to Nojima and tell him to put twice the amount of Tifa scenes in
and some for my secret best girl Aerith
just to spite Jessie.
Watch how his mouth moves from his typical expressionless frown to having the corners slightly turned up for a moment. It's small, but it's there. The beginnings of a connection.
Mildly bemused was his expression, I'd say. Turns out I can headcanon that he just might have been slightly annoyed by her, and rather than tell her to her face, he pretended to be amused so she'd get out of his way.
The point is that letting us have that option gives us the choice, lets us decide how to proceed. And gives us the opportunity to do something new, something we couldn't before. The games's name is FFVII Remake, not Every Scene Must Be Cloti.
You don't know it wouldn't be reused. You're simply assuming. It could've been used again if Jessie were to get a Gold Saucer date of her own, for the play - which as an actual actress, would be a much different experience for Cloud do it with her than with the others.
Yes, I am assuming... which is still more reasonable than creating entire fanfics out of a handful of moments and passing it off as the headcanon everyone else should use.
Where else would they use it? Wall Market? In what context? If it's play-specific, then it won't end up anywhere else. If it's a question of resources, it makes more sense for the designers to relegate it to a couple of lines of dialogue rather than force manpower/time to create something for little discernible benefit.
As I said, only a part of an area, not the entire thing. But you wouldn't have a problem with it if it was for Tifa. They showed Nibelheim in a short flashback, so what makes a single part of the Gold Saucer any different?
If it was a one-off scene with an intended flashback that would have been better communicated through a couple lines of dialogue, I'd be all for it, regardless of what character it was used for.
Nibelheim also shows up in more than one flashback and ties in directly with two of the lead characters. It's also established far earlier to give greater context to the connection between those two characters. Far different than a side character that has to act in gameplay assets that most likely won't be used again.
Then show me by not arguing against any idea or attempt to give Jessie more attention.
I'll do the opposite. I will write to Nojima and convince him to double (yes, double) the amount of screentime Tifa has. Not only that, but I will specifically ask him to create three more dresses for Tifa, just to spite Jessie.
Jessie is gone. That's it. No more. Finito. Finished. Kaput. Ended. No more easy smile. Gone to the Great Lifestream in the Sky. There is no future for both of you. No three kids and the picket fence. No dinner date at Seventh Heaven. No more heavy flirting. No pizza dates. No growing old and watching the sunsets together. No twilight years. No grandkids. No riding into the sunset together. The glove? A red herring. The smile? Vanished like tears in rain.
You are Don Quixote running against windmills, except the windmill represents Jessie and instead of simply swatting Quixote back, the windmill exploded spectacularly. That's how ridiculous this conversation has boiled down to.
