Kingdom Hearts

[Emma]

I felt bad for Axel and everyone. I hated how Roxas had to give up his life for Sora, and how Alex and co. had to die as well. It was so sad...

Hopefully, they will all get their happy endings.

 

[Max Payne]

Roxas didn't give up anything, he and sora are one.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

I felt bad for Axel and everyone. I hated how Roxas had to give up his life for Sora, and how Alex and co. had to die as well. It was so sad...

Alex died? SHIT I KNEW MY THEORY ABOUT HIM BEING CHANNELED BY BEX WAS TROO.

 

[Emma]

Roxas didn't give up anything, he and sora are one.

I know that
It felt like it to me though, and that's why I felt so bad for him and co.

@Luna Lovegood:
Wait...didn't I say Axel?

 

[Dashell]

Roxas didn't give up anything, he and sora are one.

Exactly, Axel's the one who sacrificed himself. Though he kinda deserved it after he screwed everyone over. and I still don't see why Demyx had to die. I mean he didn't even WANT to fight Sora. He tried talking to Sora but Sora had to pretend to be all bad ass. He didn't even show any remorse for killing Demyx. It was, "Anyone from the Organizaion who wants to be next?"

Screw you Sora, seriously.

 

[Emma]

Exactly, Axel's the one who sacrificed himself. Though he kinda deserved it after he screwed everyone over. and I still don't see why Demyx had to die. I mean he didn't even WANT to fight Sora. He tried talking to Sora but Sora had to pretend to be all bad ass. He didn't even show any remorse for killing Demyx. It was, "Anyone from the Organizaion who wants to be next?"

Screw you Sora, seriously.

I know right? Sora was so mean in KH2! But, they were trying to show that he had darkness in him or something
Roxas should have never given his half back to Sora!

I wonder if this game will show (if Ventus isn't Roxas) some story to Roxas' life. Oh, and I heard something about a boardgame being in it? Is that true?

 

[Celes Chere]

Guys, guys. How is Sora mean for defending his friends, and his life? The Organization is harvesting innocent people's hearts, destroying worlds, and doing anything to get their way. Should Sora have stood back, let them kidnap Kairi, and let them take his life as well?

Sora is a sweet-heart. Probably one of the most pure-hearted characters out there. As much as I love the Orgy, and don't necessarily believe that they are evil (all of them, anyway), it doesn't mean that Sora was wrong for killing them. Demyx may not have wanted to fight, but he was sent there to do JUST that. What did you think was going to happen? Demyx pops up and chats with Sora over tea? Uh-huh, no.

Saix would waste his ass for disobeying orders anyway.

 

[Emma]

Sora is a sweet-heart. Probably one of the most pure-hearted characters out there. As much as I love the Orgy, and don't necessarily believe that they are evil (all of them, anyway), it doesn't mean that Sora was wrong for killing them. Demyx may not have wanted to fight, but he was sent there to do JUST that. What did you think was going to happen? Demyx pops up and chats with Sora over tea? Uh-huh, no..

Well, I know Sora is a nice character, but he didn't show any mercy. He still murdered people who just wanted their hearts back to full again. They wanted to be somebody and not a Nobody.

Yea I thought it was fun to be the dude up in Beauty and the Beast's castle, but it was still sad to see the really nice ones (Axel, Roxas and a few others) be killed

So...doesn't anyone know if there will be a checkerboard system in this game? I've heard it a lot lately.

 

[Dashell]

How is Sora mean for defending his friends, and his life?

Demyx only fought because Sora challenged him. He TRIED to talk to Sora but Sora didn't listen. Demyx was defending himself, not the other way around.

The Organization is harvesting innocent people's hearts, destroying worlds, and doing anything to get their way.

To get hearts back to their rightful owners because people like Sora won't help them out and assume they're evil because Ansem the Wise had a stick up his butt. He didn't know anything about nobodies, but it didn't stop him from spreading lies and rumors.

Should Sora have stood back, let them kidnap Kairi, and let them take his life as well?

I wouldn't mind
Did it ever occur to Sora to try and TALK to these nobodies? Xemnas also tried to reason with Sora only to get the "No me, Sora, me kick your butt!" response.

Demyx may not have wanted to fight, but he was sent there to do JUST that. What did you think was going to happen? Demyx pops up and chats with Sora over tea? Uh-huh, no.

If Sora would have just listened to Demyx I'm sure they could have reached some kind of an agreement. Besides they weren't after Sora, they were after Roxas for betraying the Organization. Roxas put Sora into that situation yet we're supposed to feel oh so sorry for him.

 

[Max Payne]

Sora is a sweet-heart. Probably one of the most pure-hearted characters out there

Pffffffffffhahahahah Sora is a vicious little bastard, he's the most violent person in the games.

 

[Dashell]

Yeah hell Sora even attacked Riku, the guy he was LOOKING for because he was too gung ho about destroying the Organization that he couldn't set his keyblade down for two seconds to see that this guy wasn't going to hurt him.

 

[Celes Chere]

Why should Sora have to show mercy to the Organization that tried to kill him, fucked up his life, and then some? Why should he have any reason to trust nobodies that kidnap his friends, and destroy innocent people's lives? Do you know how asinine it sounds to say:
"Hey, you're trying to kill me, harvest all the hearts in the world, destroy planets, and kidnap my gf but hey, let's talk about this gaiz."
Yes, they wanted to be somebodies. Is the correct way to do that by snuffing out the lives of the innocent, and forcing the world to see things your way? No, I don't believe so. I mean, just because other people have hearts doesn't mean you need to punish them for your misfortunes. That's vengeful and while I understand it, it is not correct.

Axel is a selfish asshole. Have you seen him in the new DS game and COM?

Spoiler

He killed Zexion, Vexen, and used Repliku all because he was ordered to. He didn't want to become a dusk, and he only did things that benefit him and his friends.

I like Axel's character, but don't make him out to be a good guy, just because he sacrificed his life- he had nothing to live for anyway. That's the sad truth of it.

Checkerboard? There are panels.... if that's what you mean?

Demyx only fought because Sora challenged him. He TRIED to talk to Sora but Sora didn't listen. Demyx was defending himself, not the other way around.

Demyx first appeared in front of Sora. He also made the comment: "I told them they were sending the wrong guy". Demyx had every intention of being loyal to the Organization. There is no way in hell he was going to betray them and make nice with Sora. If you have proof of this, please tell me, because the Organization is not very forgiving of traitors.

To get hearts back to their rightful owners because people like Sora won't help them out and assume they're evil because Ansem the Wise had a stick up his butt. He didn't know anything about nobodies, but it didn't stop him from spreading lies and rumors.

...You know, when they create an Organization whose goal is to literally rip hearts out of people and creatures, yeah, you're going to assume that's pretty damn evil. Xemnas, Saix, Xaldin, and many of the other members don't give a shit about any other living person, so why in the hell should Sora try and help them at all? O___o That makes no sense, imo.

Did it ever occur to Sora to try and TALK to these nobodies? Xemnas also tried to reason with Sora only to get the "No me, Sora, me kick your butt!" response.

Again, why should he? It's not like they exactly tried to reason with him. Most of them are liars, and stab one another in the back all the time. See Axel, Saix, Marluxia, etc. Noway in hell I'd trust any of them, especially after fucking with my data.

If Sora would have just listened to Demyx I'm sure they could have reached some kind of an agreement. Besides they weren't after Sora, they were after Roxas for betraying the Organization. Roxas put Sora into that situation yet we're supposed to feel oh so sorry for him.

I disagree. Demyx is the wuss of the Organization. He's not going to betray them, because HE WILL be killed. Play the game for DS and find out how strict it is there. Saix would have killed him no problem-

Spoiler

Or made Axel do it for him, which is how Zexion died.

Demyx knows that. Roxas didn't betray the fooking Organization, that's BS and you know it. Anyone who isn't doing what Saix/Xemnas says exactly is considered to be betraying the Organization. Who wants to be a part of that crap?
Oh.My.Gaawd Quexi I can't believe you just said that! How did ROXAS put SORA into that situation? It's not Roxas' fault he was forced to do the Organization's bidding, that he found out his entire life was fake, that he was living a lie, and was bound to be a part of Sora with no control over it for eternity. I mean what an ass, let's not feel sorry for Roxas. I mean it's not like he actual had friends and a good life or anything.
O wait.

I know you're fangasming Demyx and all, and I'mma let you finish but,

No, he wasn't innocent. He was going to kill Sora.

Pffffffffffhahahahah Sora is a vicious little bastard, he's the most violent person in the games.

Defending his life? Yeah, that's SO EVIL!

 

[ForceStealer]

I have a feeling Ventus was Roxas' true identity.

...Sorry if I'm missing something big her, wasn't Sora Roxas's true identity?

As for the current debate...I feel like I need to replay KHII as I don't remember a lot of this Sora ignoring people to kill them. Was that what Square was going for or just what happened?

 

[Dashell]

...

hooray people are paying attention to me

Why should Sora have to show mercy to the Organization that tried to kill him, fucked up his life, and then some?

For the most part, they didn't try to kill him. They provoked him so he would get angry and he could kill more heartless. And Demyx was only trying to kill Sora in self defence. Did you notice Demyx did NOT try to kill him after their first battle? He just sent some water clones after him, then he went home, that was it. Demyx isn't dangerous. There's no reason to kill him.

"Hey, you're trying to kill me, harvest all the hearts in the world, destroy planets, and kidnap my gf but hey, let's talk about this gaiz."

Again they're harvesting the hearts so the nobodies can become whole again. So essentially, what they're doing is, Sora frees the hearts and the Org puts them back where they belong. Yeah really evil there. Also, who kidnapped Kairi? Axel. Saix only took Kairi after that because he thought she'd be useful. It wasn't his idea and he wouldn't have done it on his own. Axel was the one that fucked that up and hey, Sora was nice to him.

If Sora can be nice and forgive Axel who kidnapped Kairi for his own use, why not Demyx? Why not any of the others?

Axel is a selfish asshole. Have you seen him in the new DS game and COM? ... That's the sad truth of it.

Oh I agree totally. See what I said above. He was the LAST one Sora should have reasoned with.

Demyx first appeared in front of Sora. He also made the comment: "I told them they were sending the wrong guy".

The first time it was, "Right, did they pick the wrong guy for this one."
and his order was "Use aggression to liberate his true disposition" not "KILL SORA KILL KILL!"
It means...

... okay what does it mean? Does it mean kill? Maybe I should find that out first.

Demyx had every intention of being loyal to the Organization. There is no way in hell he was going to betray them and make nice with Sora. If you have proof of this, please tell me, because the Organization is not very forgiving of traitors.

Demyx orders, from what I understand, were to follow Sora. Not kill him. I might be wrong on that, but if that's all he was supposed to do, I don't see the major harm. Again, Axel betrayed the organization and he and Sora got along just fine. They even helped each other. Why can Sora help Axel, but none of the others?

...You know, when they create an Organization whose goal is to literally rip hearts out of people and creatures, yea

Uhm that's not their goal. Their goal is to create kingdom hearts so nobodies can become whole again. The way they do this is by collecting hearts, not ripping hearts out of people. The only one they're ripping the hearts out of are the people who all ready became heartlesses.

Saix, Xaldin, and many of the other members don't give a shit about any other living person, so why in the hell should Sora try and help them at all? O___o That makes no sense, imo.

I'd argue that Saix cares about Xemnas but that's a whole nother story

Again, why should he?

Again, if he can make nice with Axel, the one who KIDNAPPED KAIRI IN THE FIRST PLACE, why not Demyx who had done nothing wrong? Here's something to think about, in the underworld, evil people can fight just fine right? Demyx had to use the Olympis stone to fight. This would tell me that he's not evil. One could argue that he was, in fact, a hero.

I disagree. Demyx is the wuss of the Organization. He's not going to betray them, because HE WILL be killed.

Yeah everyone says he's a wuss but when push comes to shove, he puts up a good fight for his life, don't you think?

Oh.My.Gaawd Quexi I can't believe you just said that! How did ROXAS put SORA into that situation? It's not Roxas' fault he was forced to do the Organization's bidding, that he found out his entire life was fake, that he was living a lie, and was bound to be a part of Sora with no control over it for eternity. I mean what an ass, let's not feel sorry for Roxas. I mean it's not like he actual had friends and a good life or anything.

And what did Roxas try to do in the World that Never Was? He tried to kill Sora... I mean WTF?

and no I wasn't saying Roxas got Sora into that situation, just making the point that the Org members weren't after Sora, they were after Roxas.
And no I have no pity for the only Org member who got a happy ending, sorry.

I know you're fangasming Demyx and all, and I'mma let you finish but,

No, he wasn't innocent. He was going to kill Sora.

Then why didn't he try to kill him the first time they fought? Also Olympus Stone and all that.

 

[ForceStealer]

I was also a little confused as to why Heartless have hearts, where did they get them? In KH1 when Sora gives up his heart, it leaves him and he becomes a heartless and was restored when he got it back (iirc, which I may not), so where did the hearts that all the KH2 heartless have come from?

(Sorry to keep interrupting the serious business with noobish questions but I haven't played anything KH related since KH2 came out...)

 

[Dashell]

In KH1 when Sora gives up his heart, it leaves him and he becomes a heartless and was restored when he got it back (iirc, which I may not), so where did the hearts that all the KH2 heartless have come from?

The heart basically becomes the heartless. It's like, your heart gets freed out of your body, becomes a heartless and well you'll either get defeated by the keyblade and your heart will be freed and end up in Kingdom Hearts, or I guess in Sora's case he needed Kairi to hug him to bring him back.

I think that's right anyway.

 

[ForceStealer]

Oh, I see, thanks. Man they really did get the names of these things ass backwards didn't they...

 

[Ryushikaze]

Again they're harvesting the hearts so the nobodies can become whole again. So essentially, what they're doing is, Sora frees the hearts and the Org puts them back where they belong. Yeah really evil there.

They AREN'T putting them back where they belong. They're using the hearts of everyone who's ever lost theirs to give themselves hearts. Not put them all back, but burn the kingdom hearts for their own ends.

Also, who kidnapped Kairi? Axel. Saix only took Kairi after that because he thought she'd be useful. It wasn't his idea and he wouldn't have done it on his own. Axel was the one that fucked that up and hey, Sora was nice to him.

If Sora can be nice and forgive Axel who kidnapped Kairi for his own use, why not Demyx? Why not any of the others?

Because they were all actively trying to kill him. Axel was not.

And yes, that includes Demyx, who despite his cowardice, was actively trying to kill Sora.

Demyx orders, from what I understand, were to follow Sora. Not kill him. I might be wrong on that, but if that's all he was supposed to do, I don't see the major harm. Again, Axel betrayed the organization and he and Sora got along just fine. They even helped each other. Why can Sora help Axel, but none of the others?

If Demyx's orders were not to kill Sora, he went above and beyond orders.

Uhm that's not their goal. Their goal is to create kingdom hearts so nobodies can become whole again. The way they do this is by collecting hearts, not ripping hearts out of people. The only one they're ripping the hearts out of are the people who all ready became heartlesses.

So THEY can have hearts.

Again, if he can make nice with Axel, the one who KIDNAPPED KAIRI IN THE FIRST PLACE, why not Demyx who had done nothing wrong? Here's something to think about, in the underworld, evil people can fight just fine right? Demyx had to use the Olympis stone to fight. This would tell me that he's not evil. One could argue that he was, in fact, a hero.

In the underworld, those in league with or controlled by Hades are fine. There's a difference.

I was also a little confused as to why Heartless have hearts, where did they get them? In KH1 when Sora gives up his heart, it leaves him and he becomes a heartless and was restored when he got it back (iirc, which I may not), so where did the hearts that all the KH2 heartless have come from?

(Sorry to keep interrupting the serious business with noobish questions but I haven't played anything KH related since KH2 came out...)

Heartless are one half of a split consciousness. They, the nobody, and the heart/light split into threes. Heartless have no hearts, then consume the hearts of others, making emblem heartless. They hold hearts because they've stolen other to replace the ones they've lost.

The heart basically becomes the heartless. It's like, your heart gets freed out of your body, becomes a heartless and well you'll either get defeated by the keyblade and your heart will be freed and end up in Kingdom Hearts, or I guess in Sora's case he needed Kairi to hug him to bring him back.

I think that's right anyway.

Not quite. Lose your light/heart, go heartless. Seek a new heart. Get one, emblem heartless. More hearts, more power.

Oh, I see, thanks. Man they really did get the names of these things ass backwards didn't they...

Not quite, but it is damn unintuitive.

 

[Max Payne]

Defending his life? Yeah, that's SO EVIL!

I didn't say anything about him being evil you dumb broad

 

[Celes Chere]

For the most part, they didn't try to kill him. They provoked him so he would get angry and he could kill more heartless. And Demyx was only trying to kill Sora in self defence. Did you notice Demyx did NOT try to kill him after their first battle? He just sent some water clones after him, then he went home, that was it. Demyx isn't dangerous. There's no reason to kill him.

Right, because using someone to do your evil bidding is so much better, lol. If they didn't WANT to be killed, they shouldn't have provoked the freakin' Keyblade Master. I know it doesn't sound threatening, but they've seen what he can do. >,> Demyx didn't have to defend himself. He really could have just made a portal and fled. Did he? Nope. He was sent there to do his mission.

Again they're harvesting the hearts so the nobodies can become whole again. So essentially, what they're doing is, Sora frees the hearts and the Org puts them back where they belong. Yeah really evil there. Also, who kidnapped Kairi? Axel. Saix only took Kairi after that because he thought she'd be useful. It wasn't his idea and he wouldn't have done it on his own. Axel was the one that fucked that up and hey, Sora was nice to him.

I am very well aware of what they are doing. Okay, so you're saying that if someone didn't have a heart, that you should willingly sacrifice yours to make someone you don't even KNOW whole again? I think not. I would not willing let myself and my friends die, just because someone is pissed off at the cards they were dealt in life. If they weren't evil, they wouldn't be killing and harvesting hearts. Kingdom Hearts a place filled with light, would do shit for beings of evil like them. Sadly, they're too retarded to realize that. Who ordered Axel to kidnap Kairi? That's what I thought. The point is, the Organization's intentions are not good.

If Sora can be nice and forgive Axel who kidnapped Kairi for his own use, why not Demyx? Why not any of the others?

Because Axel actually helped Sora and proved it by fighting along-side him and sacrificing his life? *lol* Axel even apologized to Sora. Demyx was following his orders, and if he REALLY didn't want to fight Sora, he would have left and not even tried. He would have offered his help to Sora, instead of fighting against him just like Axel did. There is no reason for Sora to forgive people that are AGAINST him and cannot be trusted.

... okay what does it mean? Does it mean kill? Maybe I should find that out first.

That was his FIRST order. What was his second order? Obviously, it wasn't to make nice.

Why can Sora help Axel, but none of the others?

How did Sora help Axel?

The only one they're ripping the hearts out of are the people who all ready became heartlesses.

But it's okay to hurt people along the way. That's really a decent way to handle things. [face palm] They don't care about the world. They don't have feelings. All they want is a heart, and are obsessed with it. They follow orders, even orders to kill their own team members. They are the furthest from innocent. And that's not true. Remember the princesses? Kairi?

I'd argue that Saix cares about Xemnas but that's a whole nother story

Keep that disgusting crack pairing out of this.

Spoiler

You'd also be very disappointed to know that Saix wants full control. He doesn't care about anyone but himself.

One could argue that he was, in fact, a hero.

Someone who follows orders like a scared little puppy is not a hero.

Yeah everyone says he's a wuss but when push comes to shove, he puts up a good fight for his life, don't you think?

Everyone says that, because it's true. Yes, he did put up a good fight, but his personality and actions say otherwise. His fighting skills don't negate who he is as a person.

And what did Roxas try to do in the World that Never Was? He tried to kill Sora... I mean WTF?

... It was his intention to KILL Sora? Says who?

and no I wasn't saying Roxas got Sora into that situation, just making the point that the Org members weren't after Sora, they were after Roxas.
And no I have no pity for the only Org member who got a happy ending, sorry.

So, just because someone gets a chance at happiness, you won't pity them? That sounds a bit cruel. And I wouldn't call Roxas' ending all that happy, either.

Then why didn't he try to kill him the first time they fought?

Because those weren't his orders.

I didn't say anything about him being evil you dumb broad

Seemed like you implied that. He wasn't vicious, then. He was defending his fucking life. Play the game.

 

[Dashell]

They AREN'T putting them back where they belong. They're using the hearts of everyone who's ever lost theirs to give themselves hearts. Not put them all back, but burn the kingdom hearts for their own ends.

Okay is there something that states this officially? I've never read the Ultimanias or anything so if it's in there lemme know. I took Xemnas's "Share your power with all nobodies" to mean just that. To include all nobodies into their plain. But if there's an official source that says otherwise, I have no problem backing down.

And yes, that includes Demyx, who despite his cowardice, was actively trying to kill Sora.

He didn't try to kill him in the underworld. Both parties were hardly scathed after that battle. Also after the battle he says, "Roxas come back to us!"... if he wants Roxas to come back to them, why would he kill Sora?

If Demyx's orders were not to kill Sora, he went above and beyond orders.

Again he was defending himself. Sora Donald and Goofy drew their weapons first and wouldn't hear him out. What was he supposed to do? I know everyone calls him a coward but when push comes to shove he will fight back which is just what he did.

In the underworld, those in league with or controlled by Hades are fine. There's a difference.

I don't remember, did Auron need it? He went against Hades didn't he?... it's been a while since I played... anyway...
The line used was "Heroes are zeroes." Also, if it's just who's under Hades control why was Hercules able to overcome this at one point? I was kind of assuming will power had something to do with it as well.

I didn't say anything about him being evil you dumb broad

Wha? I don't think I directed that comment at you...

 

[Tetsujin]

Heartless are one half of a split consciousness. They, the nobody, and the heart/light split into threes. Heartless have no hearts, then consume the hearts of others, making emblem heartless. They hold hearts because they've stolen other to replace the ones they've lost.



Not quite. Lose your light/heart, go heartless. Seek a new heart. Get one, emblem heartless. More hearts, more power.

Acually, that's not correct.

Heartless DO have hearts. They aren't literally heartless. They are hearts engulfed in darkness. The ones without hearts within their bodies are the Nobodies.

Also, the Emblem Heartless are artificially produced. It has nothing to do with them acquiring other people's hearts.
Emblemless: Pureblood.
Emblem: Artificial.

 

[Max Payne]

Seemed like you implied that. He wasn't vicious, then. He was defending his fucking life. Play the game.

That little bastard bashes people over the head with a fucking giant metal key hard enough to knock them out cold or out of existence entirely.

Not vicious my ass.

 

[Dashell]

Right, because using someone to do your evil bidding is so much better, lol. If they didn't WANT to be killed, they shouldn't have provoked the freakin' Keyblade Master. I know it doesn't sound threatening, but they've seen what he can do. >,> Demyx didn't have to defend himself. He really could have just made a portal and fled. Did he? Nope. He was sent there to do his mission.

Yes because when push comes to shove, he will fight. And yes pissing Sora off was a bad move. They shot themselves in the foot there, I'll admit that.

I am very well aware of what they are doing. Okay, so you're saying that if someone didn't have a heart, that you should willingly sacrifice yours to make someone you don't even KNOW whole again?

... I was under the impression that all the nobodies in TWTNW would get their hearts back. And these nobodies were the ones that had their hearts freed by the keyblade wielders.

Who ordered Axel to kidnap Kairi? That's what I thought. The point is, the Organization's intentions are not good.

He did it on his own so that he could see Roxas. Axel had his own gayagenda.

Demyx was following his orders, and if he REALLY didn't want to fight Sora, he would have left and not even tried. He would have offered his help to Sora, instead of fighting against him just like Axel did. There is no reason for Sora to forgive people that are AGAINST him and cannot be trusted.

How do you know that Demyx was going to fight Sora the second time? They didn't even give him a chance to talk. How do you know he wasn't going to try to reason with him. It looked like that's what he was trying to do to me.

What was his second order? Obviously, it wasn't to make nice.

I'm fairly certain that in the novel it's stated he was supposed to track Sora but you can correct me if I'm wrong.

How did Sora help Axel?

He fought along side him. They were both helping each other really.

But it's okay to hurt people along the way. That's really a decent way to handle things. [face palm] They don't care about the world. They don't have feelings.

They have feelings. They keep saying Roxas did. If Roxas did, why can't the others. The problems is the elders actually believe that crap. Axel wanted to see Roxas for some reason. Obviously he missed him. If Roxas can make Axel feel like he has a heart, surely the others have things that can do that for them as well.

All they want is a heart, and are obsessed with it. They follow orders, even orders to kill their own team members. They are the furthest from innocent. And that's not true. Remember the princesses? Kairi?

.. okay I don't remember the Princesses doing anything in KH2. And again, Axel kidnapped Kairi.

Keep that disgusting crack pairing out of this.

Someone who follows orders like a scared little puppy is not a hero.

I'd make a joke about sitar hero but...

Everyone says that, because it's true. Yes, he did put up a good fight, but his personality and actions say otherwise. His fighting skills don't negate who he is as a person.

Yeah and you keep saying he was a coward... well isn't that what a coward would do? Follow orders from your superiors so you don't get killed? And you still don't have any proof that he wasn't trying to negotiate with Sora in HB. To me he was but Sora wouldn't listen.

It was his intention to KILL Sora? Says who?

Nobody, I don't think it was. it was Sora's intention to kill him.

So, just because someone gets a chance at happiness, you won't pity them? That sounds a bit cruel. And I wouldn't call Roxas' ending all that happy, either.

I just don't like them that emo

Because those weren't his orders.

And how do you know his orders the second time?

Feel free to point out if what I said is in any of the Ultimanias or comics or what not BTW.

 

[Tetsujin]

Again he was defending himself. Sora Donald and Goofy drew their weapons first and wouldn't hear him out.

The Nobodies are emotionless sociopaths. Demyx was there attack him, not talk to him. He was just putting up a charade. The whole time.
Sora and co were smart enough to not get fooled by it.