Kingdom Hearts

[Makoeyes987]

Your Demyx bias is showing terribly Que. Like seriously

 

[Dashell]

Moar like fangirlism but w/e

 

[Celes Chere]

That little bastard bashes people over the head with a fucking giant metal key hard enough to knock them out cold or out of existence entirely.

Not vicious my ass.

Anyone he's ever fought against has been in defense of his own life, or to protect others in harms way. That doesn't make him vicious, that makes him a hero.

Axel had his own gayagenda.

Every Orgy member did, really.

How do you know that Demyx was going to fight Sora the second time? They didn't even give him a chance to talk. How do you know he wasn't going to try to reason with him. It looked like that's what he was trying to do to me.

It's really quite obvious. He didn't run away like last time, he stood there and fought even though he knew his chances of winning were dire. It's either get killed by Sora, or get killed by the Organization for not following orders. Demyx was fucked both ways. Listen to everyone else. He clearly was not there to talk, and to think so is silly. XD

I'm fairly certain that in the novel it's stated he was supposed to track Sora but you can correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure tracking doesn't involve a fight to the death.

He fought along side him. They were both helping each other really.

That wasn't until the very end though. It's not like Sora was buddy buddy with him the whole time.

They have feelings. They keep saying Roxas did. If Roxas did, why can't the others. The problems is the elders actually believe that crap. Axel wanted to see Roxas for some reason. Obviously he missed him. If Roxas can make Axel feel like he has a heart, surely the others have things that can do that for them as well.

They do not have feelings, and Roxas is very different from the rest of them. Saix even says that they don't have hearts, but they remember what it feels like. This allows them to create ruses of emotions. It even says that in the journal.

.. okay I don't remember the Princesses doing anything in KH2.

They've 'existed' since KH1.

Keep that disgusting crack pairing out of this.

Yeah and you keep saying he was a coward... well isn't that what a coward would do? Follow orders from your superiors so you don't get killed? And you still don't have any proof that he wasn't trying to negotiate with Sora in HB. To me he was but Sora wouldn't listen.

Exactly... proving that Demyx is in fact, a coward. Point being...? You don't have any proof that he WAS. I have logical reasoning to believe he wasn't, you on the other hand, do not.

it was Sora's intention to kill him.

...Says who?

I just don't like them that emo

What does this even mean?

 

[Ryushikaze]

The Nobodies are emotionless sociopaths. Demyx was there attack him, not talk to him. He was just putting up a charade. The whole time.
Sora and co were smart enough to not get fooled by it.

Not entirely emotionless, but sociopathic nontheless.

 

[Max Payne]

Anyone he's ever fought against has been in defense of his own life, or to protect others in harms way. That doesn't make him vicious, that makes him a hero.

Do you even know what vicious means?

Your fangirlish love for Sora is cute and all but lol

 

[Ryushikaze]

Sora's not exactly vicious. He often gives quarter to foes. He's damn lethal at times, sure, but no more so than most other RPG heroes.

 

[Max Payne]

His primary means of conflict resolution is violence and he certainly is an aggressive bugger in a fight.

FFS he and Rikku beat the shit out of each other with wooden swords for fun. Now he does it with a giant metal key, that often has serrated edges.

Sora is no puppy dog, he will fuck you up.

 

[Dashell]

He's basically like a mini Tidus... and that alone is enough to make me hate him

 

[Ryushikaze]

Acually, that's not correct.

Heartless DO have hearts. They aren't literally heartless. They are hearts engulfed in darkness. The ones without hearts within their bodies are the Nobodies.

Also, the Emblem Heartless are artificially produced. It has nothing to do with them acquiring other people's hearts.
Emblemless: Pureblood.
Emblem: Artificial.

It's worth pointing out that that's not quite how it works as of KH358/2. The generic Heartless without emblems do not yield Hearts for the Org, but the Emblem do.

 

[Celes Chere]

Your fangirlish love for Sora is cute and all but lol

I fangirl Saix, akshully, now THAT is vicious. ♥ Also... I agree with Ryu.

He's basically like a mini Tidus... and that alone is enough to make me hate him

Sora isn't mentally retarded. <=/

 

[Dashell]

Okay let's get back to arguing with Que again

kidding... but... uhm... is it stated anywhere that only the Org members were going to get the hearts? I really was under the impression that all the nobodies would get them.

 

[Max Payne]

All RPG heroes that spend their time tearing through countless monsters/soldier/villains are vicious, they have to be to survive on the battle field.

Doesn't make them evil.

 

[Ryushikaze]

All RPG heroes that spend their time tearing through countless monsters/soldier/villains are vicious, they have to be to survive on the battle field.

Doesn't make them evil.

For that definition of vicious, he certainly is. But no more so than other RPG heroes.

 

[Tetsujin]

It's worth pointing out that that's not quite how it works as of KH358/2. The generic Heartless without emblems do not yield Hearts for the Org, but the Emblem do.

Well, hearts never popped up from the purebloods upon defeating them. Doesn't change the fact that they ARE hearts taken by darkness.

 

[Max Payne]

But no more so than other RPG heroes.

That isn't an issue.

Fact is he's a monster of a little kid. He's fighting battles where the very essence of his person is at stake, there's no way in hell he does that with a soft touch.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Well, hearts never popped up from the purebloods upon defeating them. Doesn't change the fact that they ARE hearts taken by darkness.

Yeah, though, and granted, this is the Org talking, it's because Purebloods lack hearts to take. It really does seem that 'hearts taken by the darkness' should rather be 'the remnants of those whose heart has been taken by the darkness.

That isn't an issue.

Fact is he's a monster of a little kid. He's fighting battles where the very essence of his person is at stake, there's no way in hell he does that with a soft touch.

True enough. He's a vicious scrapper, but the brat has mercy on the flip side as well. He's as vicious as necessary.

 

[Max Payne]

Being vicious doesn't mean you're entirely devoid of mercy you know.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Being vicious doesn't mean you're entirely devoid of mercy you know.

I know. I wish to make the point for those who are trying to suggesting the kid is merciless.
I'm essentially soapboxing in addition to replying to you.

Addendum: Switching gears, what do you folks make of the two Fenrir Keyblades visible in the same shot at once in the end of the Birth By Sleep trailer?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I don't get all this fangasming over the Organization. Let's review a few key things

- They were evil. To empower Kingdom Hearts they tried to create strong Heartless, so they actively sought out powerful beings and tried to get them to fall into darkness, like the Beast. So they were deliberately ruining lives.

- They deliberately piss Sora off just to make him fight, and kidnap Kairi to do so. And CoM, Marluxia's faction plots to use Sora to take control. Axel even does what he dos in KH2, by his own admission, to try and see Roxas. The Organization as a whole has jerked Sora left and right and up and down, manipulating him to do their bidding and then attacking him when they're bored. Thanks to their meddling Sora lost a year of his life, got his memories rearranged like they were in a blender, and when he woke up from his year-long nap finds out they've running amok during his slumber and have kidnapped his girlfriend. Sora has every reason to be pissed at them, and every reason to want to destroy them.

- Besides Sora, Roxas, Namine, Riku, Kairi and Xion were all exploited by the Org in the interest of furthering their plans. The Organization has repeatedly manipulated anyone they can if it can help them out. They lie, they deceive, they use violence, they do whatever they have to do if it helps them. They feel no remorse about their actions and care about nothing but themselves, which leads to the next point.

- Demyx has no real personality. No Org XIII members do, except Xion and Roxas. I know maybe Axel is a special case, but everyone else it is repeatedly stated they have no hearts and thus don't have real emotions. Demyx is a perfect example of this - he's all playful and "aw man" until Sora calls him out on having no heart, and Demyx literally turns around and puts on a darker face and attacks. Their emotions, feelings and personalities are an act. At the core, all Nobodies are like Saix and Xemnas - no hearts, no feelings, no guilt, no sympathy, no sadness, no regret. Roxas and Xion are special cases, but the rest?

So yeah, true story of Org 13. They're a pack of manipulative jerks who play with the emotions of real people to further their own plans, and feel absolutely no remorse in ruining lives as long as they get what they want. Don't get me wrong, this is the true essence of a good villain - being a selfish dick interested in power and doing what you must to get it. But don't try to justify them and make them out like they're misunderstood or sympathetic or something. Axel is made out like a martyr, but he too, manipulates and lies to get what he wants just like all the other members do.

 

[Max Payne]

I still find it funny that the Org 13 members are stated throughout the plot to have no emotions, but the game contradicts this completely.

If they had no emotions or feelings, they wouldn't do any of the shit they have, they'd have no motivation or desires, they'd just be sacks of meat with no real purpose for anything.

God they're such a poorly written sack of smucks.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

I still find it funny that the Org 13 members are stated throughout the plot to have no emotions, but the game contradicts this completely.

If they had no emotions or feelings, they wouldn't do any of the shit they have, they'd have no motivation or desires, they'd just be sacks of meat with no real purpose for anything.

God they're such a poorly written sack of smucks.

That's actually a good point.

 

[looneymoon]

I still find it funny that the Org 13 members are stated throughout the plot to have no emotions, but the game contradicts this completely.

If they had no emotions or feelings, they wouldn't do any of the shit they have, they'd have no motivation or desires, they'd just be sacks of meat with no real purpose for anything.

God they're such a poorly written sack of smucks.

Pretty much why I've been pretty skepticle of the definition of Nobodies in the verse. It seems very... contradictory tbqh. I mean, everything screams that they don't feel anything yet the characters actions imply the opposite.

Then, I don't really care enough about KH's story to really subvert my misconception, because the impression I got was that the Nobodies were capable of some sort of feeling. Whatever.

 

[Dashell]

- They deliberately piss Sora off just to make him fight, and kidnap Kairi to do so

OMG SO EVIL THEY PISS OF SORA OMOMOGMOGMOG
and for the last time, Axel kidnapped Kairi when he was defying the Organization. They would not have used Kairi if Axel hadn't kidnapped her first.

- Demyx has no real personality. No Org XIII members do, except Xion and Roxas. I know maybe Axel is a special case, but everyone else it is repeatedly stated they have no hearts and thus don't have real emotions. Demyx is a perfect example of this - he's all playful and "aw man" until Sora calls him out on having no heart, and Demyx literally turns around and puts on a darker face and attacks. Their emotions, feelings and personalities are an act. At the core, all Nobodies are like Saix and Xemnas - no hearts, no feelings, no guilt, no sympathy, no sadness, no regret. Roxas and Xion are special cases, but the rest?

I have to agree with Dacon here. If they really had no hearts or emotions, they wouldn't act like they do at all. The fact is they DO have emotions and feelings. Ansem the Wise just likes to spread lies that they don't so people won't feel bad for them. And for some reason Xemnas likes to sell this as well... god knows why.

So Demyx does have a personality and he does have feelings. And here's another thing to think of along the lines of the Olympus Stone thing I pointed out. For whatever reason, unlike every other member, Demyx faded into light. I think that says something of his true nature right there.


... why do I feel like a Clerith?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Ansem the Wise just likes to spread lies that they don't so people won't feel bad for them. And for some reason Xemnas likes to sell this as well... god knows why.

Considering a lot of Org13 members directly state they don't have real emotions, I doubt you can chalk this up to Ansem spreading bad publicity.

 

[Dashell]

True a lot of the older members do say that for some reason... but I still don't like him