Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
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Cthulhu
Administrator
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minimosey
Pro Adventurer
Hope in XIII-2 seemed like an overly emotional person to me.
As an adult he still wants to find a way to bring his mother, Light, Fang and Vanille back, though it means changing history, and he's impulsive enough to put himself in a one-way experimental time travel device... what, twice? Because apparently he couldn't leave the future up to others.
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Alex Strife
Ex-SOLDIER
He's clearly emotional but comes across as a very calm and collected person, which he never was. I guess the biggest change is on the "front door" rather than what's on the inside. But I see what Fangu meant, and kind of agree with it 
Mwynn
Tenderness
Hope wasn't overly grown up, he was 24 for Chrissake. Not to mention he's 27 at the end of XIII-2. He's still essentially a soft, caring, and emotional person due to all the things that happened to him, but being, well, the leader of the civilization's government he needs to be mature enough to be sufficient for his role.
Also, this character change of Hope is best described through his musical themes. Notice how melancholic his XIII theme was but still sounding as if he's holding to hope. His new theme sounds similar in XIII-2, still describing his soft side through the guitar strings but they were made to sound as if his confidence and courage is stronger than ever before.
Also, this character change of Hope is best described through his musical themes. Notice how melancholic his XIII theme was but still sounding as if he's holding to hope. His new theme sounds similar in XIII-2, still describing his soft side through the guitar strings but they were made to sound as if his confidence and courage is stronger than ever before.
Alex Strife
Ex-SOLDIER
The only issue I have with Hope is how suddenly he went from an overly-emotional kid (I'm not saying he didn't have a fair reason, nor I am saying that he annoyed me) to a calm and collected leader of one of the most important factions there is (And it's not even a big issue for me).
It's also true that being very emotional can mean he has the necessary drive to become a different person on the outside to be able to achieve his goals, so in all honesty, it's not like I'm against "Current Hope" (I liked his character quite a bit). It's just that I can see why people would find his whole change odd.
It's also true that being very emotional can mean he has the necessary drive to become a different person on the outside to be able to achieve his goals, so in all honesty, it's not like I'm against "Current Hope" (I liked his character quite a bit). It's just that I can see why people would find his whole change odd.
Fangu
Great Old One
When I said 'emotional' I meant 'expressing his emotions'. You can be a very emotional character and still have the facade of a statue. There's no doubt he's still a soft and caring person. What I'm critisizing is how they chose to downplay his more expressive side.
This exactly.
One thing is being over-emotional, which he was in his full right to be, but even at the end of the game where he's come to terms with his faith and have less reason for being expressive, and even shows a brighter side, he's still a very expressionate character. Most 14 year olds I know answers adults with 'yes', 'no' or 'I don't know'. Hope always struck me as the more chatty type.
So for him to decide to get into science and become Mister Few But Well Chosen Words is, well... as I said I don't disagree with it, but I think they made him like that to make him fit into the original playable character trio of Noel, Serah and Hope. I'd put my money they'd make him more of a rascal, bohemian type, but those elements were kinda already taken.
Because, he complains early on in xiii about his father being gone all the time. They live in a quite large, fancy apartment, and I'm guessing his father to be the business type who works all the time and is never home. Hope was a mama's boy, a rich kid who's family was falling apart.
Now I guess there is a chance Hope would go 'OMG dad let's be overworked together' at the end of xiii, but I'd rather think Hope would like to spend time getting to know his father doing something recreational rather than burdening himself in work with him. Fine he wanted Fang and Vanille back, but did he want it so much he'd throw away dad-time for it? It's like, instead of them both becoming friends and his father working less, they both decided to become Executives. Or maybe that was the only bonding activity that worked.
Okay maybe xiii-2 Hope just grew into this sad company man who has no family left and now just longs for the old days. Yeah guess that makes sense. Now get yourself a wife and kid and become your father. XD (joking)
Now I guess there is a chance Hope would go 'OMG dad let's be overworked together' at the end of xiii, but I'd rather think Hope would like to spend time getting to know his father doing something recreational rather than burdening himself in work with him. Fine he wanted Fang and Vanille back, but did he want it so much he'd throw away dad-time for it? It's like, instead of them both becoming friends and his father working less, they both decided to become Executives. Or maybe that was the only bonding activity that worked.
Okay maybe xiii-2 Hope just grew into this sad company man who has no family left and now just longs for the old days. Yeah guess that makes sense. Now get yourself a wife and kid and become your father. XD (joking)
So as I said it's not that what they did don't make sense, but if I was to guess, I would have chosen a different design for his personality as a grown up. But that's just me. And Alex Strife.
Alex Strife
Ex-SOLDIER
True that as well. And I saw him as more of a badass fighter in FFXIII than in FFXIII-2!
Wait Fangu, you mean he'll travel back in time, marry his mother and become his own father? Uuuuhhhh!!!
High five, opinion-buddy!
Wait Fangu, you mean he'll travel back in time, marry his mother and become his own father? Uuuuhhhh!!!
High five, opinion-buddy!
minimosey
Pro Adventurer
When I said 'emotional' I meant 'expressing his emotions'. You can be a very emotional character and still have the facade of a statue. There's no doubt he's still a soft and caring person. What I'm critisizing is how they chose to downplay his more expressive side.
I don't know. I did see him as more collected, I just also saw him as plenty expressive at times. It didn't strike me as blatantly off, just a drift from 14 to 24. Though I will agree that his diction wasn't right, but then again I didn't care for Lightning's either. XIII-2 was just AND SUDDENLY WE ARE "PROPER" PEOPLE.
...And now that the mage thing has been mentioned, I do wish he'd been one of the people to keep magic. My little glass cannon that could rain down destruction
Lex
Administrator
Yeah I had issues with the way Hope and Lightning spoke in XIII-2. It was very "lets go into robot mode". Tbh, if it wasn't for some of the excellent scenes in the original XIII, I'd put it down to Ali Hillis, because Liara in Mass Effect is just as monotone as XIII-2's Lightning. There was a lot of laborious OTT overpronounciation from both "I Am Now a Mechanic And We Shall Call It Bhunivelze" and "The Guardian Duodecim Sword Mistress of Destiny Tra la la other big OTT Words" in that bloody sequel.
I suppose all the passive aggessive mockery I just threw into that paragraph tells me my feelings about those characters are stronger than I had considered. Though I am slightly drunk.
I suppose all the passive aggessive mockery I just threw into that paragraph tells me my feelings about those characters are stronger than I had considered. Though I am slightly drunk.
ForceStealer
Double Growth
My disdain for Hope is well-documented, but yeah, Lightnings change was...odd. From the most pragmatic hero in the series to god-fearing archangel was an odd shift. I'll be interested to see if they go anywhere with it. It COULD make for very cool character analysis, but they'll have to prove that.
Fangu
Great Old One
I have a feeling they did a lot of things just to fit the story arch of the game. Hope and Light has already been mentioned, Snow is another odd thing.
I remember we talked about this when we did xiii together. Magic vs Mecanic has always been an FF theme, so it did strike me as odd. But then again, FF has also always been about fitting together groups of people with different skills, so I guess out of the excisting characters, Hope were the one they could easiest fit into the tech role. *shrug*
Lex
Administrator
Personally what I'm hoping for in XIII-3 is the amazing warrior from XIII-2 combined with the normal but maybe slightly matured actual character of Lightning from the original XIII. It was just so disconcerting for her to act the way she acted and speak the way she spoke in XIII-2. I want original Lightning back, at least a little bit of her.
minimosey
Pro Adventurer
That Hope is into tech really isn't weird, he was the one messing with mechs in the original game so I'd say they avoided magic versus mechanic there. It's just, they took away the magic.
Honestly at the end of her DLC (fortunately not most of the other time), Lightning reminded me very strongly of Vincent, which was bewildering to realize. It was the 'epitaph' line that did it. The incredibly eloquent DRAMA.
Honestly at the end of her DLC (fortunately not most of the other time), Lightning reminded me very strongly of Vincent, which was bewildering to realize. It was the 'epitaph' line that did it. The incredibly eloquent DRAMA.
Fangu
Great Old One
Haha those Juggernaut thingies!! I completely forgot about those. Excellent point.
I guess I have a lot of headcanons. (Which is good for fic writing but bad for character analysis. Which is why I never do them.) But tbh, look closely enough and you find 'evidence' for almost anything in FF games. It's kinda like horoscopes.
Alex Strife
Ex-SOLDIER
I think they did say Lightning's "back" to her "old self", didn't they?
Also this made me think, how are they going to handle the FREAKING HUGE change from FFXIII-2 to the "de facto" FFXIII-3, AKA as Lightning Returns, during the first minutes of the game?
Also this made me think, how are they going to handle the FREAKING HUGE change from FFXIII-2 to the "de facto" FFXIII-3, AKA as Lightning Returns, during the first minutes of the game?
Mwynn
Tenderness
Well all I can say is I hope they don't mess this up. This guilt thing that Kitase or Toriyama said the characters will carry as a burden, it's like going back to their ordeal in XIII, except this time it's much heavier due to Serah's death.
Since I support the pairing of Lightning and Hope, I look forward to their interactions with each other in the game, even if it's just them having conversations through the wireless com. Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we can contact any of the characters through wireless com anytime throughout the game? That would be a great, right?
Since I support the pairing of Lightning and Hope, I look forward to their interactions with each other in the game, even if it's just them having conversations through the wireless com. Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we can contact any of the characters through wireless com anytime throughout the game? That would be a great, right?
Kuja9001
Ooooh Salty!
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People change. Lightning is probably over 10,000 years old at this point. So in a way you are right: She is not the same Lightning we knew at the end of XIII... she's the Lightning who has fought non-stop for countless years in an unwinnable war. It changed her. She states quite clearly in her message to Serah in the Vile Peaks that she is getting desperate to end the war... desperate enough to pray to a god that she doesn't even know. She quite clearly states in Requiem of the Goddess that she literally has no hope left and that her only wish is to see Serah again. She also states that her past mistakes haunt her to this day and that with each loop, she is greeted with seeing all the souls that will be destroyed should Caius succeed and even comments that she sees the souls of those she personally killed. She feels guilty that all she can do is watch over her friends, yet she can't really do anything to help them other than to hold Caius back. All of this stuff has changed her into the person we saw in XIII-2.
There is also the fact that Lightning is very practical. What good would cynicism do in her situation? She has armies to lead, battles to fight, and people to protect. Having doubts about her actions would only hinder her when she needs to be decisive. And again, her situation is about protecting those she loves and cares about. Why would she be cynical about it?
Now, that's not to say that her cynicism is gone. It isn't. All that happened was that she lost the anger that fueled her early cynicism. When Serah asks if they'll be together after everything is said and done, Lightning doesn't respond with optimism. No, all she says is "One thing at a time, Serah". She doesn't know how things will pan out, and she doesn't cover this fact up. At the end of the opening, she is very cynical as she states "I can no longer protect Serah". Her narrations else where are laced with undertones of cynicism as she wonders if she'll ever be able to face Serah and repair their strained relationship (she has a massive guilt complex about XIII and still feels bad about not believing her) and whether or not things will work out at all. Again, it's not gone... its just more depressed and melancholic than cold and angry.
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There is also the fact that Lightning is very practical. What good would cynicism do in her situation? She has armies to lead, battles to fight, and people to protect. Having doubts about her actions would only hinder her when she needs to be decisive. And again, her situation is about protecting those she loves and cares about. Why would she be cynical about it?
Now, that's not to say that her cynicism is gone. It isn't. All that happened was that she lost the anger that fueled her early cynicism. When Serah asks if they'll be together after everything is said and done, Lightning doesn't respond with optimism. No, all she says is "One thing at a time, Serah". She doesn't know how things will pan out, and she doesn't cover this fact up. At the end of the opening, she is very cynical as she states "I can no longer protect Serah". Her narrations else where are laced with undertones of cynicism as she wonders if she'll ever be able to face Serah and repair their strained relationship (she has a massive guilt complex about XIII and still feels bad about not believing her) and whether or not things will work out at all. Again, it's not gone... its just more depressed and melancholic than cold and angry.
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Kuja9001
Ooooh Salty!
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681990-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/64224271?page=2
I can't find the other topics regarding this.
Arianna
Holy, Personified
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- Katie; Seta.
According to this, work on LR:FFXIII is finished!
http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming...-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/?utm_source=nrel1
http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming...-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/?utm_source=nrel1