Locked Heart // Tifa Lockhart

[Tifabelle]

Wait, how do we know he was with them for a month or two?

I don't know the exact timeline, and I cba to look it up, but there was some time between when she found Cloud and the start of the game.

EDIT: Cloud wanders Midgar in late September, start of the game is early December. According to this: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII/Timeline So maybe he's with them for a couple weeks to a month.

Or you can just assume she was stuck at the bar playing house with Marlene for whatever reason suits you.

And you can't assume she was doing something more than that. So stalemate. We can't assume either way, but have to accept that all possibilities are open.

Obviously it is speculation and assumption, because mommy had no problem leaving a severely underage kid running a bar in one of the worst slums in Midgar(YOU GET ATTACKED BY FUCKING HOUSES FFS).

You're using this as an example of someone being a poor parent, but then go on to say how great a father Barret is. HE LEFT HER THERE TOO. Tifa was the one who thought about her when Sector 7 was in trouble while Barret was off fighting. Barret constantly leaves her in someone else's care (Elmyra is a stranger ffs). That's not to say that he doesn't love her with all his heart; I know that he does. But some of his decisions regarding Marlene are questionable. Even if it ends up working out.

It's ridiculous to assume that Barret would have no problem with someone who hadn't taken any prior action in previous missions, suddenly jumping up and running in one of their more important operations.

I'm not saying she didn't participate at all. She must have. But my point is, she isn't involved in every mission. Otherwise, she would have been in the opening sequence, and Cloud wouldn't be so surprised when she joins the next mission.

Good for you, but I see it as a severe discredit to her character, which is what all of you were disputing.

I think the discredit to her character is more CoT than AC/C. CoT was supposed to be her story, while AC/C is Cloud's journey of forgiveness, and accepting his family.

There are other things for Tifa to do, sure, but I don't see a problem with what she's decided to do. And maybe she would have done more had Denzel not been sick, who knows. She does come out and kick ass when she's called to do it. She held her own against Loz (a superhuman), even if in the end she lost. She protected Denzel from Shadow Creepers. She participated in DoC. I would have liked to see her do more in the Bahamut battle, that I would agree with.

 

[Max Payne]

And you can't assume she was doing something more than that. So stalemate. We can't assume either way, but have to accept that all possibilities are open.

Yes I can, because we are given considerable reason to assume that she's been working with avalanche all the time. You can assume all you want, there's nothing stopping you as long as you have reason to. That was never my point.

You're using this as an example of someone being a poor parent,

No, I'm not, you're missing my point. The fact that they can leave her there and trust her to be safe means that Tifa wasn't taking the role of being her parent. She would just look after her when she wasn't off doing something else.

If being a caretaker was a primary role for her back then she would have stayed, but she didn't. You can't be a poor parent, IF YOU'RE NOT A PARENT.

Barret constantly leaves her in someone else's care (Elmyra is a stranger ffs). That's not to say that he doesn't love her with all his heart; I know that he does. But some of his decisions regarding Marlene are questionable. Even if it ends up working out.

If you have something you need to do, and a child needs care in the meantime the best thing you can do is leave her with someone you can trust, like the lady who has taken care of someone else's child as her own for a large portion of her life, or a good friend.

I'm not saying she didn't participate at all. She must have. But my point is, she isn't involved in every mission. Otherwise, she would have been in the opening sequence, and Cloud wouldn't be so surprised when she joins the next mission.

Obviously Cloud didn't take part in every mission either, since Barret wasn't willing to pay his fees

My point is, there's more reason to assume she was an active part in avalanche, than there is to assume she was their token homemaker.

I think the discredit to her character is more CoT than AC/C. CoT was supposed to be her story, while AC/C is Cloud's journey of forgiveness, and accepting his family.

I think it's both.

There are other things for Tifa to do, sure, but I don't see a problem with what she's decided to do. And maybe she would have done more had Denzel not been sick, who knows. She does come out and kick ass when she's called to do it. She held her own against Loz (a superhuman), even if in the end she lost. She protected Denzel from Shadow Creepers. She participated in DoC. I would have liked to see her do more in the Bahamut battle, that I would agree with.

I can give you the rest, but Loz was just playing with her. The whole fight was pretty much him letting her beat on him because he can. Maybe he's a masochist or something.

MY problem with her current role are, not only does it underutilized her considerable talents, but she's relegate to the common role of a female in media, as looney has said.

Regulating Tifa to the care-taker/motherly role is a huge injustice to the character. LOVE INTEREST OR MOTHER WHAT ELSE ARE FEMALE LEADS GOOD FOR?

Makes me think of this XD

I begrudgingly accept it though, because mothers are an important recurring theme in the series. I realize this is probably justification for shoddy writing, but whatever.

I feel much the same as she does.

It makes her role boring, and makes me lose a lot of interest in her.

 

[Vendel]

After catching up I still have yet to see anyone explain what they would have Tifa (or anyone else) doing. And how this would fit their character.

And for the life of me I can't seem to recall anyone bitching that Cloud is a "boring typical husband" now. All he wants to do is work and live with his family. Gezze Cloud DO SOMETHING when you are not forced to.

 

[minimosey]

After catching up I still have yet to see anyone explain what they would have Tifa (or anyone else) doing. And how this would fit their character.

...I did?

And for the life of me I can't seem to recall anyone bitching that Cloud is a "boring typical husband" now. All he wants to do is work and live with his family. Gezze Cloud DO SOMETHING when you are not forced to.

He isn't shown as a "boring typical husband" in CoT or Advent Children.

what the hell quote mark-up why are you failing

 

[Vendel]

He isn't shown as a "boring typical husband" in CoT or Advent Children.

Cloud does a lot more wangsting than a typical husband in CoT and the start of AC. But when does he do anything when he isn't forced into it?

He gets a pass because he has more success at the end of the movie in his fights?

 

[Max Payne]

After catching up I still have yet to see anyone explain what they would have Tifa (or anyone else) doing. And how this would fit their character.

People have given plenty of valid reasoning for how they feel regarding this. Whether you want to be mature and acknowledge these reasons, is up to you. But you can keep saying the same thing over and over again if you like.

And for the life of me I can't seem to recall anyone bitching that Cloud is a "boring typical husband" now. All he wants to do is work and live with his family. Gezze Cloud DO SOMETHING when you are not forced to.

Cloud is delivering packages, traveling the world in his badass motorcycle and fighting the occasional monsters. It's more interesting than him sitting at home doing nothing but looking after kids, but at least it would be a nice role reversal for the man to be at home looking after the kids rather than it being the woman for the 9000th time.

That said, I don't give that much of a shit about what he's doing because he's the main character, he's always going to be doing something that's interesting.

Tifa is my favorite character in the games, and I'd rather see her doing something more interesting. I don't see how her wanting use the wealth of strength she's gathered to protect the people in the world(as long as there is life there will always be conflict and people will always need someone to help them, why wait for something bad to happen when you can be proactive?), or pass on the skills she's acquired to the next generation of warriors or soldiers, would be so very out of character, when one of the faucets of who she is, IS wanting to protect. She can do all of this, AND still make time for the kids and be with Cloud.

I just don't like that she is taking part in one of the most mundane roles I can imagine for her.

 

[Tifabelle]

Yes I can, because we are given considerable reason to assume that she's been working with avalanche all the time. You can assume all you want, there's nothing stopping you as long as you have reason to. That was never my point.

My point is that she was probably neither full-time avalanche nor full-time homemaker, but somewhere in the middle. (which I think is the point you made at the end of your post?)

No, I'm not, you're missing my point. The fact that they can leave her there and trust her to be safe means that Tifa wasn't taking the role of being her parent. She would just look after her when she wasn't off doing something else.

If being a caretaker was a primary role for her back then she would have stayed, but she didn't. You can't be a poor parent, IF YOU'RE NOT A PARENT.

So leaving Marlene there means one is either not a parent or a poor parent. Which is Barret?

If you have something you need to do, and a child needs care in the meantime the best thing you can do is leave her with someone you can trust, like the lady who has taken care of someone else's child as her own for a large portion of her life, or a good friend.

Elmyra is not a good friend. She's a stranger. Granted a nice stranger who is a mother herself, but still a stranger. And remember, Barret had not met Aerith at this point either, so she's a stranger to him as well. In fact, even though Tifa entrusts Marlene to her, she barely knows Aerith at this point. So dumb decisions all around, it seems.

Obviously Cloud didn't take part in every mission either, since Barret wasn't willing to pay his fees

So this was Cloud's first mission with the gang as well. Maybe Tifa stopped going on missions to care for Cloud. Maybe she just skipped the one. Possible, but no way to know for sure.

MY problem with her current role are, not only does it underutilized her considerable talents, but she's relegate to the common role of a female in media, as looney has said.

I feel much the same as she does.

It makes her role boring, and makes me lose a lot of interest in her.

Hmm. I hear you. Underutilizing female characters, blah blah. Makes me think of Terra. I like her, but she always needs someone to save her. Some main character. :/

As far as Tifa though, I have less of a problem. This is the life she chooses after the near-apocalypse. And like I said, she still participates when called, she's just less active. Maybe it'll be different in a future installment

But that would lead me to Vendel's question. Sure Tifa is put more in a typical female role, but there are some females irl that do this too. Women make sacrifices for their family. Injustice? Maybe, unless they choose this. So I don't see a problem with it if they can find a good balance for her character. Now Terra is a character they need to work on.

 

[Max Payne]

My point is that she was probably neither full-time avalanche nor full-time homemaker, but somewhere in the middle. (which I think is the point you made at the end of your post?)

My point is she wasn't a homemaker at all. Running a business and looking after a kid while you're there doesn't make you a homemaker.

So leaving Marlene there means one is either not a parent or a poor parent. Which is Barret?

Good lord you're missing the point. It's not about being a poor parent at all, where are you getting this? Both Tifa and Barret can trust Marlene being at home, but Tifa isn't her parent at ALL. She's a friend who looks after her while working. That doesn't make her the kid's mommy. She never assumed responsiblity of being the child's primary caretaker until AFTER FF7.

Elmyra is not a good friend. She's a stranger. Granted a nice stranger who is a mother herself, but still a stranger

Durr, Elmyra is this part:

nd a child needs care in the meantime the best thing you can do is leave her with someone you can trust, like the lady who has taken care of someone else's child as her own for a large portion of her life

. And remember, Barret had not met Aerith at this point either, so she's a stranger to him as well. In fact, even though Tifa entrusts Marlene to her, she barely knows Aerith at this point. So dumb decisions all around, it seems.

Barret DID meet Elmyra, and from the story she told him, he felt he could trust her.

Also, as far as Aerith and Tifa go, they spent a good bit of time together, and wound up fighting side by side for a while before getting back to the tower with Barret. She was able to trust her in battle, and fight beside her in confidence, why wouldn't she trust her to look after a little girl?

It's similar to the kind of trust and bond soldiers can form between each other in a very short time. Living through life and death situations and fighting together can create a unique kind of trust between two people.

Hmm. I hear you. Underutilizing female characters, blah blah. Makes me think of Terra. I like her, but she always needs someone to save her. Some main character. :/

As far as Tifa though, I have less of a problem. This is the life she chooses after the near-apocalypse. And like I said, she still participates when called, she's just less active. Maybe it'll be different in a future installment

I have no faith in SE.

But that would lead me to Vendel's question. Sure Tifa is put more in a typical female role, but there are some females irl that do this too.

I don't really approve of that either. Women are more than baby factories and housewives. They have just as much potential to affect the world as men.

Women make sacrifices for their family. Injustice? Maybe, unless they choose this. So I don't see a problem with it if they can find a good balance for her character. Now Terra is a character they need to work on.

Everyone makes sacrifices for their family, but do people go out of their way to make up for their guilt by adopting other peoples kids? Not commonly.

The fact is, most women can't bench press giant monsters, or dodge gunfire and beat soldiers down with just their fists. Tifa is more than you're average woman

 

[Obsidian Fire]

It's more interesting than him sitting at home doing nothing but looking after kids, but at least it would be a nice role reversal for the man to be at home looking after the kids rather than it being the woman for the 9000th time.

And it would be very out of character for Cloud. No matter how much sulking he sometimes does (and that depends on how soon you think ACC happens after CoT) he's always the one leading the charge and saving the day when all is said and done.

It would be very out of character for Tifa to. No matter what you say her role in AVALANCE could have been, what we see her doing is waiting at 7th Heaven for everyone else to get back from the bombing mission and then Cloud being surprised that she's going on the next mission.

If there was such a role reversal, I know I wouldn't like FFVII as much as I do. In fact, it would a big turn off for me. I happen to be one of the people who liked that Tifa stayed home and Cloud went out and worked.

Although I'd like to know why you call Tifa a housewife when she runs her own business, helps run Cloud's, lives above her bar and takes care of two kids. That sounds more like a working mother to me.

I don't see how her wanting use the wealth of strength she's gathered to protect the people in the world(as long as there is life there will always be conflict and people will always need someone to help them, why wait for something bad to happen when you can be proactive?), or pass on the skills she's acquired to the next generation of warriors or soldiers, would be so very out of character, when one of the faucets of who she is, IS wanting to protect. She can do all of this, AND still make time for the kids and be with Cloud.

To me, Tifa cares about her family and anything that would distract her from them she wouldn't do. So while she is a fighter and does fight to protect her family, training other people to fight would take her away from them more then she already is. Also, there is such a thing as being able to fight, but not wanting to.

But that would lead me to Vendel's question. Sure Tifa is put more in a typical female role, but there are some females irl that do this too.

I don't really approve of that either. Women are more than baby factories and housewives. They have just as much potential to affect the world asmen.

Except that some women really do want to be housewives. Goodness knows I do.

The fact is, most women can't bench press giant monsters, or dodge gunfire and beat soldiers down with just their fists. Tifa is more than you're average woman

So you're saying that because Tifa is more than an average woman, she can't live the life an "average" woman would?

 

[Tifabelle]

My point is she wasn't a homemaker at all. Running a business and looking after a kid while you're there doesn't make you a homemaker.

Hmm. Ok. She also cooked for her comrades, but w/e. There's really no point in speculating what she did or didn't do just before the game.

Good lord you're missing the point. It's not about being a poor parent at all, where are you getting this? Both Tifa and Barret can trust Marlene being at home, but Tifa isn't her parent at ALL. She's a friend who looks after her while working. That doesn't make her the kid's mommy. She never assumed responsiblity of being the child's primary caretaker until AFTER FF7.

Again, you're assuming as was I. We can't really know what Tifa's role with marlene was prior to FF7. The point that I was making is that you're using examples to prove why Tifa was not in a parental role, but these examples also extend to Barret who was her parent. It's a double-edge sword. You are using these examples to say Tifa was not a parent, while in the same breath saying Barret was a good parent. Loving a child is important, but it's not enough.

Durr, Elmyra is this part:

I know. We were both talking about Elmyra. Meeting a woman who tells a great touching story does not mean it's ok to leave your child with her. Knowing her for an hour doesn't make her any less a stranger. Would you leave your kid in my care? But this can be argued as artistic license rather than bad parenting. They just needed somewhere to put Marlene.

For Tifa & Aerith, I understand what you're saying about battle comrades, but they still only knew each other for a day. Just because Aerith is good in battle doesn't mean she knows what to do with a kid. But I don't have a problem with it necessarily because there weren't really any other options besides Tifa going to get her herself.

I don't really approve of that either. Women are more than baby factories and housewives. They have just as much potential to affect the world as men. Everyone makes sacrifices for their family, but do people go out of their way to make up for their guilt by adopting other peoples kids? Not commonly.

The fact is, most women can't bench press giant monsters, or dodge gunfire and beat soldiers down with just their fists. Tifa is more than you're average woman

Agreed. But this was Tifa's way of trying to find a normal life. Which she didn't have after the events of Nibelheim. So what do you want her to do? On top of having a full time job and being a full time mom, she should fight monsters too? Or ditch the job and kids to fight monsters? So because she has the ability to kick ass, she shouldn't waste her time with owning a business or raising children?

imo, the fact that she's strong, and still is family-oriented is what makes her so great. She doesn't have to be kicking ass 24-hours a day to be awesome.

And it would be very out of character for Cloud. No matter how much sulking he sometimes does (and that depends on how soon you think ACC happens after CoT) he's always the one leading the charge and saving the day when all is said and done.

And Cloud is involved with the family as much as in-character for him. Until he leaves. But then we see him coming back in ACC (scene with Marlene, telling Denzel he'd be coming home). He works just as much as Tifa, but Tifa's job happens to be in the same building as their home.

 

[Max Payne]

Hmm. Ok. She also cooked for her comrades, but w/e. There's really no point in speculating what she did or didn't do just before the game

She's running a bar that serves food and drinks, she's gonna cook for them sometimes.

Again, you're assuming as was I. We can't really know what Tifa's role with marlene was prior to FF7. The point that I was making is that you're using examples to prove why Tifa was not in a parental role, but these examples also extend to Barret who was her parent. It's a double-edge sword. You are using these examples to say Tifa was not a parent, while in the same breath saying Barret was a good parent. Loving a child is important, but it's not enough.

This makes no sense. Barret assumed the responsibility of raising and looking after the child. Tifa did not, she looked after the kid when she did. That doesn't make her the child's parent. That's all there is to it.

I know. We were both talking about Elmyra. Meeting a woman who tells a great touching story does not mean it's ok to leave your child with her. Knowing her for an hour doesn't make her any less a stranger. Would you leave your kid in my care? But this can be argued as artistic license rather than bad parenting. They just needed somewhere to put Marlene.

If I had something I needed to do, and had to leave the kid somewhere, I'd do it with the nice lady I just met, whose daughter I'm about to go save for her. He had no reason to assume the woman would harm his kid when HE'S GOING TO GET HERS BACK FOR HER BECAUSE SHE SAVED HIS CHILD.

For Tifa & Aerith, I understand what you're saying about battle comrades, but they still only knew each other for a day. Just because Aerith is good in battle doesn't mean she knows what to do with a kid. But I don't have a problem with it necessarily because there weren't really any other options besides Tifa going to get her herself.

The whole point of leaving Marlene to Aerith was to get her out of the sector before it went kablooey, not worry about childcare.

Agreed. But this was Tifa's way of trying to find a normal life. Which she didn't have after the events of Nibelheim. So what do you want her to do? On top of having a full time job and being a full time mom, she should fight monsters too? Or ditch the job and kids to fight monsters? So because she has the ability to kick ass, she shouldn't waste her time with owning a business or raising children?

One, 7th Heaven doesn't get that much business, two, she doesn't have to be a mom at all, it's something she volunteered for, not an actual responsibility she HAD to assume. She took the role voluntarily, she could have just as easily done something else.

There is no either or here. Many people fit a lot into their lives every day, and those people aren't half as extraordinary as Tifa and co.

If it was about redemption, there's plenty she could do to benefit many people, but she's not. She's Cloud's homebuddy and Marlene's mommy now.

imo, the fact that she's strong, and still is family-oriented is what makes her so great. She doesn't have to be kicking ass 24-hours a day to be awesome.

She isn't kicking ass at all. That's the problem. She's just another mom/housewife, when she could be doing so much more.

This is just my opinion, I don't like this turn of events. I can understand it, and I can live with it, but it's not what I'd like to see her doing.

 

[ForceStealer]

I don't have a ton of time at the moment to comment on this fully, but one thing I wanted to say,

I can give you the rest, but Loz was just playing with her. The whole fight was pretty much him letting her beat on him because he can.

Ryu, Tenny, and I talked about this a bit in the ACC commentary - how would Tifa have done in a rematch? She lost, definitely, but Loz caught her off-guard with his speed ability. He caught Cloud off-guard with it too, even. But the next time Cloud fought him (the highway chase) had didn't really have any problems with him. So now that Tifa knew what her opponent was capable of (and also not having to protect a little girl), I feel like she would have fared much better.

ESPECIALLY if she had access to some materia.

 

[Max Payne]

It would be very out of character for Tifa to. No matter what you say her role in AVALANCE could have been, what we see her doing is waiting at 7th Heaven for everyone else to get back from the bombing mission and then Cloud being surprised that she's going on the next mission.

No it wouldn't. The rest of your argument I've already addressed. There is no reason at all to think all she did was sit at seventh heaven waiting for everyone to get home all the time. In fact there's more to imply quite the opposite.

If there was such a role reversal, I know I wouldn't like FFVII as much as I do. In fact, it would a big turn off for me. I happen to be one of the people who liked that Tifa stayed home and Cloud went out and worked.

Good for you.

Although I'd like to know why you call Tifa a housewife when she runs her own business, helps run Cloud's, lives above her bar and takes care of two kids. That sounds more like a working mother to me.

She stays at home, runs a business from home, and takes care of the kids while doing so and waiting for her man to come home. Sounds like a housewife.

To me, Tifa cares about her family and anything that would distract her from them she wouldn't do. So while she is a fighter and does fight to protect her family, training other people to fight would take her away from them more then she already is. Also, there is such a thing as being able to fight, but not wanting to.

No it wouldn't. In ACC she was already spending most of her time with them. In FF7 she was all for doing everything in her power to help save the world and protect people. Why would that suddenly change after they beat Sephiroth?

So you're saying that because Tifa is more than an average woman, she can't live the life an "average" woman would?

Herp derp I never said she couldn't do anything, but that it's a waste of her considerable talents. She's not a average person, and she doesn't live in a average world. Yet she's played the role of housewife, mother, and damsel in distress after FF7, and she hasn't even officially started dating Cloud and had any kids of her own.

 

[Tifabelle]

This makes no sense. Barret assumed the responsibility of raising and looking after the child. Tifa did not, she looked after the kid when she did. That doesn't make her the child's parent. That's all there is to it.

<__< >__> But you were offended when I said Barret wasn't a good parent. But he shows no different parenting skills than what Tifa shows.

If I had something I needed to do, and had to leave the kid somewhere, I'd do it with the nice lady I just met, whose daughter I'm about to go save for her.

Ok. This is just something we disagree on then.

He had no reason to assume the woman would harm his kid when HE'S GOING TO GET HERS BACK FOR HER BECAUSE SHE SAVED HIS CHILD.

Yeeaaah. I'm not saying to assume she would intentionally hurt Marlene, but you don't know what quality of care she can provide.

The whole point of leaving Marlene to Aerith was to get her out of the sector before it went kablooey, not worry about childcare.

I'm not disagreeing with you there, but Tifa or Barret could have seen to her safety themselves. Instead, they choose to fight at the pillar. Not that anyone else could have, I suppose.

One, 7th Heaven doesn't get that much business, two, she doesn't have to be a mom at all, it's something she volunteered for, not an actual responsibility she HAD to assume. She took the role voluntarily, she could have just as easily done something else.

I thought 7th Heaven was quite busy? Wasn't there a line in CoT that people liked it as a diversion from all the bad. I cba to look for it. Just because it was empty at the beginning of AC/C doesn't mean there's no business. It could have been closed. And yes, Tifa volunteers to take care of the children.

If it was about redemption, there's plenty she could do to benefit many people, but she's not. She's Cloud's homebuddy and Marlene's mommy now.

'cept Cloud's never home

She isn't kicking ass at all. That's the problem. She's just another mom/housewife, when she could be doing so much more.

This is just my opinion, I don't like this turn of events. I can understand it, and I can live with it, but it's not what I'd like to see her doing.

You want her to be a superhuman when the point was to show her being average after being a superwoman in FF7. But she still harbors her kick-ass ways when she needs to. You're entitled to your opinion though, I have no problems.

She doesn't have to be all one or all the other. Tifa is quite balanced, imo. I'm sure if monsters stroll into Edge, she has no qualms about kicking their asses. And when the world is threatened, she pulls out her gloves. Her priorities however are her children. I don't see a problem with this, personally.

>Some women enjoy video games & baseball, and still like cooking and taking care of babies!
>Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go vacuum and bake cookies.
>Unless that's too cliche for you


EDIT:

No it wouldn't. In ACC she was already spending most of her time with them. In FF7 she was all for doing everything in her power to help save the world and protect people. Why would that suddenly change after they beat Sephiroth?

She addresses that her main goal was revenge. There is nothing to save people from; she does help with the building of Edge, which is the main thing that people needed. Running 7th Heaven, helping people find normality, IS her way of helping people.

Herp derp I never said she couldn't do anything, but that it's a waste of her considerable talents. She's not a average person, and she doesn't live in a average world. Yet she's played the role of housewife, mother, and damsel in distress after FF7, and she hasn't even officially started dating Cloud and had any kids of her own.

Marlene & Denzel are her children. Not by birth, but she calls Marlene her daughter, and if it was good enough for Elmyra, it should be good enough for Tifa.

 

[Max Payne]

Ryu, Tenny, and I talked about this a bit in the ACC commentary - how would Tifa have done in a rematch? She lost, definitely, but Loz caught her off-guard with his speed ability. He caught Cloud off-guard with it too, even. But the next time Cloud fought him (the highway chase) had didn't really have any problems with him. So now that Tifa knew what her opponent was capable of (and also not having to protect a little girl), I feel like she would have fared much better.

ESPECIALLY if she had access to some materia.

Tifa is clearly outmatched in speed and power against LOZ, but like I've said before she's definitely more skilled in fighting techniques and style.

With materia she just may be strong enough to beat him. Especially with Haste and couple defense spells.

 

[Max Payne]

<__< >__> But you were offended when I said Barret wasn't a good parent. But he shows no different parenting skills than what Tifa shows.

Desperately trying to not facepalm here.

I NEVER COMMENTED ON TIFA'S SO CALLED PARENTING SKILLS IN FF7 BECAUSE SHE WASN'T A PARENT. SHE WAS A BABYSITTER.

Yeeaaah. I'm not saying to assume she would intentionally hurt Marlene, but you don't know what quality of care she can provide.

She had a nice home and was able to take care of another girl to womanhood comfortably, you can tell a lot about a person from the state of their home.

I'm not disagreeing with you there, but Tifa or Barret could have seen to her safety themselves. Instead, they choose to fight at the pillar. Not that anyone else could have, I suppose.

Tifa,Barret, and Cloud are all more powerful than the rest of Avalanche, and strong enough to oppose Shinra's attempt to bring the Sector down. That was most definitely their responsibility. Especially since it was being destroyed because they were there.

I thought 7th Heaven was quite busy? Wasn't there a line in CoT that people liked it as a diversion from all the bad. I cba to look for it. Just because it was empty at the beginning of AC/C doesn't mean there's no business. It could have been closed. And yes, Tifa volunteers to take care of the children.

I don't remember, but 7th is pretty much empty for all of AC, and in CoD don't recall many people being there either. Maybe you are right.



'cept Cloud's never home

You want her to be a superhuman when the point was to show her being average after being a superwoman in FF7. But she still harbors her kick-ass ways when she needs to. You're entitled to your opinion though, I have no problems.

The whole point of CoT was to show her acclimatizing to life after Meteor, that doesn't mean she has to go to the general role women are stuck with.

She doesn't have to be all one or all the other. Tifa is quite balanced, imo. I'm sure if monsters stroll into Edge, she has no qualms about kicking their asses. And when the world is threatened, she pulls out her gloves. Her priorities however are her children. I don't see a problem with this, personally.

She doesn't have any children though. Just kids she took the responsibility of taking care of, when she has a friend who has a wealth of resources, money and manpower that could have helped her out with that.

>Some women enjoy video games & baseball, and still like cooking and taking care of babies!
>Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go vacuum and bake cookies.
>Unless that's too cliche for you

Meh. Sorry I don't like the idea of my favorite character being thrust into the background in a wholly supportive role that's too commonly given to female characters.

 

[Max Payne]

She addresses that her main goal was revenge. There is nothing to save people from; she does help with the building of Edge, which is the main thing that people needed.

There is always something to save people from.There is crime, poverty, and a world full of monsters and people that could do harm. Even discounting the special events that happen in there world.

Running 7th Heaven, helping people find normality, IS her way of helping people.

Helping people drown their sorrows is some way to help the world that's just been ravaged by a giant fucking meteor.

Her role is completely unremarkable as far as I'm concerned, and not interesting in the least. I'm glad you're all content with it, I'm not, and I don't see any reason why I should be.

 

[Alex]

What the fuck are you people talking about?

 

[Max Payne]

What the fuck are you people talking about?

I said something they didn't like now they want to spank me

 

[Alex]

This thread is more crackers than a pan-fried iguana

 

[Madame Mayor]

People arguing against Dacon know Tifa's fictional right?

Tifa is a character created for a work of fiction. This work of fiction's main goal is to entertain.

Real life women grow up get married have kids and live boring lives. This is true fact. Tifa wanting these things as a character is not the problem. The problem is that's not entertaining. Even non-fantasy characters have to do something out of the ordinary to keep us interested.

 

[Max Payne]

People arguing against Dacon know Tifa's fictional right?

Tifa is a character created for a work of fiction. This work of fiction's main goal is to entertain.

Real life women grow up get married have kids and live boring lives. This is true fact. Tifa wanting these things as a character is not the problem. The problem is that's not entertaining. Even non-fantasy characters have to do something out of the ordinary to keep us interested.

someone understands me

 

[Tifabelle]

People arguing against Dacon know Tifa's fictional right?

Tifa is a character created for a work of fiction. This work of fiction's main goal is to entertain.

Real life women grow up get married have kids and live boring lives. This is true fact. Tifa wanting these things as a character is not the problem. The problem is that's not entertaining. Even non-fantasy characters have to do something out of the ordinary to keep us interested.

I don't disagree with that. My point in comparing Tifa to real-world women was to point out that women, and people in general, are not one-dimensional. Don't we prefer characters that have certain real-world applications and character flaws?

As far as being entertaining, I don't understand why Tifa has to be kicking ass 24/7 to entertain. AC/C was about CLOUD. Just like DoC was about Vincent, and CC was about Zack. It just so happens that Tifa is the character most linked to Cloud, so she appears in more of a supporting role. And personally, I was still entertained even when Tifa wasn't in battle mode. That's just where our opinions differ.

The only place we were jipped was the Bahamut fight. But again I think it was more to show Cloud's strength, than to dis Tifa.

And Case of Tifa should have been more Tifa, less Cloud.

And just to add, I wasn't arguing with Dacon, just having friendly conversation. At least, I didn't mean for it to come off that way.

Desperately trying to not facepalm here.

I NEVER COMMENTED ON TIFA'S SO CALLED PARENTING SKILLS IN FF7 BECAUSE SHE WASN'T A PARENT. SHE WAS A BABYSITTER.

I was referring more to Barret being a bad parent, than what Tifa's role was or wasn't.

She doesn't have any children though. Just kids she took the responsibility of taking care of, when she has a friend who has a wealth of resources, money and manpower that could have helped her out with that.

But she chooses to take care of the children. Tifa has a very nurturing personality; it would be OOC for her to drop the kids off at someone else's doorstep. Especially Marlene. These are her adopted children; Tifa is a mother. As much as Elmyra is. I find Tifa's decision quite endearing, tbh.

 

[Max Payne]

But she chooses to take care of the children. Tifa has a very nurturing personality; it would be OOC for her to drop the kids off at someone else's doorstep. Especially Marlene. These are her adopted children

It wouldn't be out of character for her to go a different way opposed to this.

Tifa is a mother.

She is now. I preferred when she wasn't.

I don't like Tifa as the mother housewife bartender who sits at home/work lamenting the absence of Cloud while looking after a bunch of completely uninteresting kids. It's not interesting in the least.

But I've said my piece. Guess it's time to move on.

 

[Tifabelle]

It wouldn't be out of character for her to go a different way opposed to this.

You think so?

She is now. I preferred when she wasn't.

Fair enough.

But I've said my piece. Guess it's time to move on.

Hey! Get back here!