SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Cat on Mars]

This discussion has become so boring that we're talking about the story!

What a momentous day!

 

[Ryushikaze]

You can get some additional dialogue in a few places too. Nothing all that substantial though.

Not really? There is extra dialogue coded, but it's for AV values that you won't get without infinite loops or a gameshark for Aerith's lines.

 

[Odysseus]

Not really? There is extra dialogue coded, but it's for AV values that you won't get without infinite loops or a gameshark for Aerith's lines.

Shhhhh I forgot because I modded those values to be way lower so you could actually get them

 

[Graymouse]

I never thought this thread would get vibrant with life again. Welcome back to the show everyone!

 

[ExampleZ]

I don't know how it changes anything since in AC/C Cloud and Tifa are depicted as a couple going through a rough patch but still end up together. In matter of the LTD, AC/C cements cloti more than anything else. Was it badly written? Yes, AC moreso than AC/C, but as I'm looking back at it, I also understand more what they tried to do.

Really, because I don't remember a single instance of them acting like a couple or showing affection to each other in that movie, not even in the "Complete" edition. Unless you're referring to the scene where Tifa literally explains Cloud's own feelings to him and speaks nonsensical babytalk, but nothing ever came of that since Cloud was still feeling sorry for himself afterwards. If anything it leans more towards Cloud/Aerith since she's ultimately the one who got Cloud to stop with the self-pitying (with help from Vincent and Marlene), not Tifa. Even during the ending they weren't together, not to mention she was more than happy to let Cloud fight Kadaj/Sephiroth by himself.

And my comment earlier was more how everything in Advent Children contradicts the original game, and as a result Nomura, Nojima etc. do not give two flying shits about continuity or consistency.

I don't know the direction SE going but I know for sure, they're not going to assasinate character(s) trait just to make a portion of the fanbase happy.

Well they did exactly that with Advent Children, so who knows.

While the plot of FF7 and the Compilation might be convoluted at times, the relationship dynamics and character development have always been clear — it's one of the strong suits of the game. To suggest that Aerith can do what Tifa does in the Lifestream undermines Tifa's character and reveals a complete lack of understanding of Cloud and Tifa's relationship within the context of the game.

I highly doubt SE would go in the direction of "branching narratives" where you get one woman or the other because that cheapens their characters and the entire narrative as a whole. And if they do go in that direction, I can surely say that no one would be happy with that outcome. And if they decide to go in a CA direction, I'd prefer they actually create a unique storyline for the two of them instead of just replacing Tifa, because that's just lazy.

Yeah what I meant to say was that they would find some new way to make it work. If the story was a 1:1 copy of the original it definitely wouldn't. Honestly I'm really starting to regret making that post.

I completely agree the game established an all-bets-are-off scenario, but Kitase later said this:

“From here on out, we’re not drastically changing the story and making it into something completely different than the original. Even though it’s a Remake, please assume that FF7 will still be FF7 as usual.”

Well they've kind of already proved that it will be different when they showed Zack surviving, followed by "The unknown journey will continue." To what extent it will be different we don't know yet, but it's highly unlikely to be the same as the original.

 

[Graymouse]

Even though I'm more of a Tifa guy it would be pretty wild if Square decided to keep Aerith alive and maybe even have her be the one to restore Cloud's lost memories and hook up with him before the final battle. There isn't a soul on the internet who doesn't already know about her death in OG FF7, so I have a strong feeling they'll try to subvert our expectations like they did with Zack. After the death of the arbiters of fate, anything goes, and the ending explicitly stated that the rest of the story will not be the same as the original.

I am curious to know, what happens to Tifa when she is completely stripped of her role in the Remake? Should we write her out of the Remake all together? Or should we keep her in and have her be a side character?

 

[ExampleZ]

I am curious to know, what happens to Tifa when she is completely stripped of her role in the Remake? Should we write her out of the Remake all together? Or should we keep her in and have her be a side character?

The latter.

 

[looneymoon]

Remake will only add more waifus, they would never take a waifu away like that

 

[a_apple 2.0]

The latter.

Why would they do that tho? Tifa is pretty popular, and made SE way more cash than any of the other remake characters
So wouldn't they rather give her more screen time lol
Which they already did in the remake

 

[ExampleZ]

Why would they do that tho? Tifa is pretty popular, and made SE way more cash than any of the other remake characters
So wouldn't they rather give her more screen time lol
Which they already did in the remake

I'm just saying since the choice was between keeping her as a side character and omitting her completely, it's pretty obvious which is going to happen.

 

[Graymouse]

I'm just saying since the choice was between keeping her as a side character and omitting her completely, it's pretty obvious which is going to happen.

If SE does what you suggest, what would be the purpose of having Tifa in the story in the first place? I would probably guess that SE would "remove" Tifa completely before they make her a side character. That is just how important Tifa is to the story.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

I'm just saying since the choice was between keeping her as a side character and omitting her completely, it's pretty obvious which is going to happen.

It's just such a weird assumption to think that they would ever cut down on Tifa content lol

 

[Ryushikaze]

Especially given the changes they made in early development just to make sure Tifa still had a role. I've been thinking about it, and I propose a slightly alternate take for the "Tifa was created when we decided to kill Aerith" story .

It was not that they created Tifa when they decided to kill Aerith, we know that from early materials. What if instead they created Aerith so they could kill someone and keep Tifa around? I have nothing specific to prove this, except that we know that Nomura said things like "In an early stage of development, Aerith was related to Sephiroth" only to see sketches from said early stage of development with a character named Tifa related to Sephiroth instead.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Really, because I don't remember a single instance of them acting like a couple or showing affection to each other in that movie, not even in the "Complete" edition. Unless you're referring to the scene where Tifa literally explains Cloud's own feelings to him and speaks nonsensical babytalk, but nothing ever came of that since Cloud was still feeling sorry for himself afterwards. If anything it leans more towards Cloud/Aerith since she's ultimately the one who got Cloud to stop with the self-pitying (with help from Vincent and Marlene), not Tifa. Even during the ending they weren't together, not to mention she was more than happy to let Cloud fight Kadaj/Sephiroth by himself.

It sounds rather like you have a lot of misunderstandings about AC's character interactions and story.

I mean, citing a show of belief in Cloud that he could handle that fight (something he smiles about as the rest of his team backs off) as a negative? Registering the bedroom conversation between Cloud and Tifa as irrelevant to his character trajectory when it was so important to the developers they had the voice actors record it together (something not done for any other dialogue in the film)? Those are misreadings tantamount to constituting a different story altogether.

And my comment earlier was more how everything in Advent Children contradicts the original game ...

How so?

 

[ExampleZ]

It sounds rather like you have a lot of misunderstandings about AC's character interactions and story.

I mean, citing a show of belief in Cloud that he could handle that fight (something he smiles about as the rest of his team backs off) as a negative? Registering the bedroom conversation between Cloud and Tifa as irrelevant to his character trajectory when it was so important to the developers they had the voice actors record it together (something not done for any other dialogue in the film)? Those are misreadings tantamount to constituting a different story altogether.

I don't see what the voice actors recording it together has to do with anything. And my point is that the scene doesn't bring Cloud and Tifa any closer together.

How so?

Cloud spending half the movie feeling sorry for himself over Aerith's death and Sephiroth's consciousness somehow surviving in the lifestream for starters, both of which blatantly contradict the ending of the game. I'll make a separate thread on it soon since I think I've derailed this thread enough already.

 

[Rydeen]

Cloud spending half the movie feeling sorry for himself over Aerith's death and Sephiroth's consciousness somehow surviving in the lifestream for starters, both of which blatantly contradict the ending of the game. I'll make a separate thread on it soon since I think I've derailed this topic enough already.

Advent Children is a hot mess, but this is a complaint I never agreed with. By the end of the OG, everyone was high on adrenaline. I’ve always quite liked Cloud’s “emo” phase, because psychological trauma doesn’t just go away like that. It tends to resurge for the rest of your life and ideally you just get better at dealing with it. The Geostigma brought back those psychological wounds and I felt like him not being truly over it was relatable.

 

[minami758]

@ExampleZ I'm not saying that Advent Children is a good movie, many of us here have already expressed our opinions (negative and positive) of the movie in this thread and others, and the older members I'm sure have already had the AC/C discussion to death. But the characters don't exactly feel the way they feel out of nothing, nor does it deny a Cloud/Tifa relationship.

I don't know if you've read the On The Way to a Smile novellas, but if you're actually interested in LTD discussion I'd encourage you to do so because it explains many of the characters' motivations and reasons why they are the way they are in AC/C. Case of Tifa (and Case of Barret) pretty much establish Cloud and Tifa in a steady romantic relationship, and AC/C is simply a moment in time where they're going through a rough spot, because that serves to provide the most drama.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't see what the voice actors recording it together has to do with anything.

Because it highlights the weight of it; the desire for it to be received and felt with authenticity.

And my point is that the scene doesn't bring Cloud and Tifa any closer together.

She gets him to go after the kids despite his crippling fear that he'll only make things worse. That's huge for him at that point with where his head was at, and sets in motion the events that allow others to further get through to him.

Cloud spending half the movie feeling sorry for himself over Aerith's death ...

The original game doesn't show us how he was getting on a couple of years after Zack and Aerith's deaths, so there's nothing to contradict here ...

... and Sephiroth's consciousness somehow surviving in the lifestream ...

Just like it did in the original game when he died the first time, you mean?

I'll make a separate thread on it soon since I think I've derailed this thread enough already.

Okay, reply to me there.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Sometimes it's like people don't understand what fiction is.
If you want a story, you need conflict. Drama. That's why Cloud feels guilty and is dying and he's leaving his family behind without explaining his motives, creating yet another conflict with Tifa, and Sephiroth comes back because lazy writers be lazy.
And a story needs payoff.
In AC or ACC, payoff means Cloud defeating Sephiroth by himself, forgiving himself and coming back to his family, proving Tifa was right about him.

It's weird how people see the ending and think "I guess Cloud and Tifa never had a relationship in first place".
It's a fantasy/action CG movie, what were some people expecting? Graphic sex scenes?

 

[Odysseus]

Especially given the changes they made in early development just to make sure Tifa still had a role. I've been thinking about it, and I propose a slightly alternate take for the "Tifa was created when we decided to kill Aerith" story .

It was not that they created Tifa when they decided to kill Aerith, we know that from early materials. What if instead they created Aerith so they could kill someone and keep Tifa around? I have nothing specific to prove this, except that we know that Nomura said things like "In an early stage of development, Aerith was related to Sephiroth" only to see sketches from said early stage of development with a character named Tifa related to Sephiroth instead.

While there's no evidence of this, I think you're on to something here. The proto-Aerith/Tifa hybrid character had Tifa's design, after all. In this stage Aerith and Sephiroth were related, so when they drafted a new look for her they designed them to be similar. That's why Aerith and Sephiroth have the same bangs. At this time Sephiroth also looked more like vincent, who arguably resembles Tifa streeeeetch so maybe that's part of the reason that design got repurposed in favor of Sephiroth's final look. This way the siblings look like each other and the Tifa design gets to have another role. I dunno, that kinda makes sense.

 

[ExampleZ]

I made a new thread here for anyone who's interested.

 

[Master Bates]

It's a fantasy/action CG movie, what were some people expecting? Graphic sex scenes?

I've been quiet this entire time and you just out me like this. Smh

 

[shersita007]

Ohh, it would be very interesting to see Aerith trying to help Cloud fix his memories, and finding out that at least 85% of Cloud subconcious is filled with his obsession for Tifa and that all what he was searching for, was to become strong to protect and impress Tifa his childhood crush. I would love to see Aerith face at that moment


And Tifa says a non sense to Cloud in AC/ACC that didn't help him at all?
This explain why Cloud later told Tifa 'Maybe I lost some weight, after all that Dilly, Dally'. Tifa words gave Cloud the first boost he needed to start to move forward.

 

[Stiggie]

Wait...there are actually people who think Tifas admonishment to Cloud did nothing?

 

[shersita007]

Wait...there are actually people who think Tifas admonishment to Cloud did nothing?

Yep, they are without that lecture from Tifa, Cloud wouldn't move his body to go and search for the childrens and start doing something about all the mess that was currently happening.