SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Via Purifico]

While there's no evidence of this, I think you're on to something here. The proto-Aerith/Tifa hybrid character had Tifa's design, after all. In this stage Aerith and Sephiroth were related, so when they drafted a new look for her they designed them to be similar. That's why Aerith and Sephiroth have the same bangs. At this time Sephiroth also looked more like vincent, who arguably resembles Tifa streeeeetch so maybe that's part of the reason that design got repurposed in favor of Sephiroth's final look. This way the siblings look like each other and the Tifa design gets to have another role. I dunno, that kinda makes sense.

Actually there's a story that Nomura subbed Tifa's design for Aerith when the subject of a character death came up. Tifa got put on the back burner because there was only one heroine at that point. Then they moved into the next stage of development and brought up the fact they were killing their only love interest. At this point Tifa was brought back in as the idea of the love triangle was suggested and she was given the internal plot with Cloud, while Aerith remained the external plot and character death.

And I've seen a quote where Nomura jokes that he saved Tifa by giving them Aerith.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Actually there's a story that Nomura subbed Tifa's design for Aerith when the subject of a character death came up. Tifa got put on the back burner because there was only one heroine at that point. Then they moved into the next stage of development and brought up the fact they were killing their only love interest. At this point Tifa was brought back in as the idea of the love triangle was suggested and she was given the internal plot with Cloud, while Aerith remained the external plot and character death.

And I've seen a quote where Nomura jokes that he saved Tifa by giving them Aerith.

Would you have any idea where he made those comments? If we could confirm them it would be amazing.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Recent interview on comicbook.com with Britt Baron, Tifa’s English VA for FF7 Remake. https://comicbook.com/gaming/amp/ne...lockhart-interview/?__twitter_impression=true
When asked about the love triangle, she had this to say:

Now I have to ask, were you aware of the love triangle stuff before you took the part?

Oh, no. No, no, no. Not at all actually. I don't even think I was really aware of it till recently just through social media? But when we were recording it, I just started getting a little confused about what the relationship is. And so, I asked and... I mean, I think it makes me a little sad that we live in a society where women just always are... It seems to be pinned against each other. And I think what I was really excited about when I talked to the creative team is that that's really not... I mean, for me and from my perspective, Tifa and Aerith are on the same side. They are friends, they are both fighters. Neither of them are damsel in distresses. And I love that. They're both really strong women that work together to fight the same cause.

And I've said this before, I've learned this. I'm on an all-female cast on GLOW, and that was really my... That's taught me so much about this industry and how much stronger women are together when we lift each other up, when we support one another instead of tearing each other down. So, I guess I hope that society can catch up because I love Tifa and I love Aerith. And I think for me, I'm not as interested about two women fighting over a man. I'm really more interested in, “wow, two strong women that both have totally different skills and can work together to fight this massive cause. And don't even need Cloud to come save them. They're fighting right next to him.” And that's the greatest exciting part to me about this story.

It's actually interesting you bring up that dynamic, because I think more so than with previous versions of the game or even animated versions, there has been a resurgence here in sort of like Tifa and Aerith together. To the point where people are shipping them together rather than anything to do with Cloud.

I love that though. I mean, I think this game is coming out in such a different time in our society, where I think there is way more women representation in a strong way, where I think women characters don't just have to rely on their romantic relationship with the men in whatever story is being told.

And that's another thing I've definitely learned on GLOW. It's all these female stories that have nothing to do with romantic interests because there's so much more to being a woman than just who do you have a crush on? And I think that's definitely what I was excited about. And I love that both Tifa and Aerith are so strong and beautiful in their own way, and they have completely different fighting capabilities, which is so fun when you're playing the game because you can jump between characters and use each of their strengths to work together against a common goal.

So, I love that some of the fandom has caught on to like, “Oh, Tifa and Aerith are great together, fighting together. They don't even need Cloud,” versus just, “Who's the better girl?” I mean, that just seems so antiquated to me and not productive at all.

I’d love to see what you guys think of this!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

We were linking to this interview at the same time in different threads. XD

 

[KindOfBlue]

We were linking to this interview at the same time in different threads. XD

Nice ?

 

[Torrie]

I’d love to see what you guys think of this!

I get a feeling that she was sort of caught unawares with all this LTD thing at that time, and it's the way she's trying to find the right wording and making a lot of pauses... There might be something that she's not allowed to say, because the story is still at the beginning, but anyway, it's never the easiest topic, lol. But I love what she says about both heroines portrayed as friends and fellow fighters. I feel that's the way it's supposed to be.

 

[a_apple]

What a great interview man
that's the good shit

 

[Stiggie]

Recent interview on comicbook.com with Britt Baron, Tifa’s English VA for FF7 Remake. https://comicbook.com/gaming/amp/ne...lockhart-interview/?__twitter_impression=true
When asked about the love triangle, she had this to say:



I’d love to see what you guys think of this!

I personally never understand the opinion that characters are better when they're not jealous, or the implication that there was something wrong with Aerith and Tifa as they were in 1997. I know she's not really saying that outright, but I do kinda get that vibe, and have gotten them from others as well, which I find a bit weird tbh, but I might be reading too much into it.

People get jealous, it's part of human nature, if anything, people are diminished when that part of humanity is removed. We love, we hate, scheme, we get nervous, jealous, angry, sad, we cry, we laugh, and usually a bunch of those things exist simultaneously, people have flaws.
Especially love is extremely core to the human experience (or atleast, it has been in my life), so I never see a problem with being a "love interest" either. When a love interest is all a character is that's often a boring character, but not all stories are like GoT, with massive casts and a dozen complex storylines that require well worked out, well developed characters. Sometimes a story is told from the perspective of the main character, and is designed to tell a specific story, without muddying it up with with unnecessary complexity or moral greyness. I think it's fine to be a fan of those stories, or not be a fan, but I don't understand the view that there is anything intrinsically wrong with simple stories outside of them perhaps being boring.
Sometimes you just need a "bad guy", some times you just need a reason for Mario to go adventuring that instantly speak to the human heart.

Stories and characters are not like real life, in real life, you have complex real people, and it's wrong to say they exist only to perform a certain task, or to reduce them to a single aspect.
In games however, there is only one person that matters, the player, and all other characters exist for one reason, and one reason only, to elicit a certain reaction of the player. I am always a bit weirded out by this idea that we should treat characters as if they were human, if that creates a better gaming experience for the player, then of course, but as a goal an sich? Nah.

I hate the love triangle because it's simply not fun, but not liking it because women aren't just there to be the love interest and be jealous? I kind of feel like that does a disservice to the characters as they were in 1997, they were never "just love interests", they're strong characters now, because they were strong characters back then. Tifa and Aerith were friends, but also rivals, fighters, but also healers, they were complex, they were always the full package imo, which is exactly why people cared so much about the LTD, because they weren't just "love interests", because they were amazing characters, which is why we SOOOO longed for their happiness.

I didn't fall in love with Cloti because I put myself in Clouds shoes and wanted Tifa. No, if anything I used to not even really like Cloud, I fell in love with Cloti because I empathized with Tifa, because I engaged with her story, her experiences, her struggles, and as Tifa, I felt like that fighting deserved a happily ever after when it's all over.

But then again, I might be overthinking it XD

 

[KindOfBlue]

I personally never understand the opinion that characters are better when they're not jealous, or the implication that there was something wrong with Aerith and Tifa as they were in 1997. I know she's not really saying that outright, but I do kinda get that vibe, and have gotten them from others as well, which I find a bit weird tbh, but I might be reading too much into it.

People get jealous, it's part of human nature, if anything, people are diminished when that part of humanity is removed. We love, we hate, scheme, we get nervous, jealous, angry, sad, we cry, we laugh, and usually a bunch of those things exist simultaneously, people have flaws.
Especially love is extremely core to the human experience (or atleast, it has been in my life), so I never see a problem with being a "love interest" either. When a love interest is all a character is that's often a boring character, but not all stories are like GoT, with massive casts and a dozen complex storylines that require well worked out, well developed characters. Sometimes a story is told from the perspective of the main character, and is designed to tell a specific story, without muddying it up with with unnecessary complexity or moral greyness. I think it's fine to be a fan of those stories, or not be a fan, but I don't understand the view that there is anything intrinsically wrong with simple stories outside of them perhaps being boring.
Sometimes you just need a "bad guy", some times you just need a reason for Mario to go adventuring that instantly speak to the human heart.

Stories and characters are not like real life, in real life, you have complex real people, and it's wrong to say they exist only to perform a certain task, or to reduce them to a single aspect.
In games however, there is only one person that matters, the player, and all other characters exist for one reason, and one reason only, to elicit a certain reaction of the player. I am always a bit weirded out by this idea that we should treat characters as if they were human, if that creates a better gaming experience for the player, then of course, but as a goal an sich? Nah.

I hate the love triangle because it's simply not fun, but not liking it because women aren't just there to be the love interest and be jealous? I kind of feel like that does a disservice to the characters as they were in 1997, they were never "just love interests", they're strong characters now, because they were strong characters back then. Tifa and Aerith were friends, but also rivals, fighters, but also healers, they were complex, they were always the full package imo, which is exactly why people cared so much about the LTD, because they weren't just "love interests", because they were amazing characters, which is why we SOOOO longed for their happiness.

I didn't fall in love with Cloti because I put myself in Clouds shoes and wanted Tifa. No, if anything I used to not even really like Cloud, I fell in love with Cloti because I empathized with Tifa, because I engaged with her story, her experiences, her struggles, and as Tifa, I felt like that fighting deserved a happily ever after when it's all over.

But then again, I might be overthinking it XD

I do think it’s probably better that Tifa and Aerith are presented as good friends and that the jealousy is minimized. I mean, if the LTD is as intense as it already is despite the jealously not having been so prevalent in the first place, imagine how bad the LTD would be if the jealousy WAS a major factor. The worst shippers already tend to overanalyze every romantic aspect of the story to the point of straight up misrepresenting the characters and overshadowing the story’s non-romantic layers, so I’d rather not give them more ammo.

 

[kathy202]

I personally never understand the opinion that characters are better when they're not jealous, or the implication that there was something wrong with Aerith and Tifa as they were in 1997.

Yeah, I never got the impression that they were jealous in the OG. It was more a thing around who the player chooses to be nice to, and the girl who receives the better treatment believably ends up as the player's date?

But the OG didn't show the kind of friendship between Aerith and Tifa the way the remake did, and I guess that part was well-received. Personally, I'd rather have it than not too.

As for the jealousy part, I do agree that when people over-emphasize/celebrate the friendship, it sometimes comes across as "if we don't make them friends, they will look like jealous rivals" which is just... Not true? Though I assume that's not anyone's intention.

 

[Stiggie]

Yeah, I never got the impression that they were jealous in the OG. It was more a thing around who the player chooses to be nice to, and the girl who receives the better treatment believably ends up as the player's date?

But the OG didn't show the kind of friendship between Aerith and Tifa the way the remake did, and I guess that part was well-received. Personally, I'd rather have it than not too.

As for the jealousy part, I do agree that when people over-emphasize/celebrate the friendship, it sometimes comes across as "if we don't make them friends, they will look like jealous rivals" which is just... Not true? Though I assume that's not anyone's intention.

I think a lot of it is that people imagine the tone of the characters voices differently from how it's intended by the developers.
I especially notice this when I am watching playthroughs of the shinra HQ part where Tifa and Cloud are locked in a cell.
Tifa says something like "......oh I get it, excuse me, you know Aerith, I have a question".

Literally every lets player I watch says "You know Aerith, I have a question" like she's about to make the most passive aggressive cat fighty statement in history, and is then a bit taken aback when the question is an actual inquiry.
Shows me that they're imagining it as a lot more hostile than was probably intended.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Sorry if this topic’s been done to death, but do Cloud and Tifa share a bed in On the Way to a Smile? I know she sleeps with Marlene but I couldn’t tell if the “do you love me?” conversation took place with Cloud and Tifa in the same bed. I don’t have the English release but I was hoping it might make it more clear but probably not.

 

[Eerie]

I wonder how that scene gets painted in anti-cloti light when it's pretty much cloti writing on the wall scene lol. It isn't said exactly that they share a bed there, but:
- Cloud claims in Remake to be a light sleeper to Tifa in her ch14 scene
- Cloud is NOT surprised to see Tifa by his side, asking him this, chats with her, and goes back to sleep without even waiting to see if she's going back to her room. He is also not awoken by Tifa entering his room, but by her talking (see first point).
- This is NOT a question you ask to a friend, this is a question you ask to a lover whom you doubt - especially here since Cloud was having troubles already, not pertaining to his love life BTW, but Tifa always doubts a LOT.

I mean come on, you have to be pretty stubborn to deny what's written in that scene. It's a couple's exchange in the middle of the night. Nojima talks about them as a couple. Ultimanias paint them as sharing their feelings in the OG, and we know Cloud has been in love with her since they were kids, and that Tifa reciprocates, we know they had sex under the Highwind since it's the canon version. Imagine "oh we had sex under the Highwind, we love each other, we are a family, but nah, I'm going to sleep in that room with a spare tyre"-Cloud? LOL. Nope, Cloud is not like that, Tifa is not the kind of woman who'd let him do that to her either. Character assassination has its limits.

 

[looneymoon]

Cloud/Tifa be like

 

[Odysseus]

I know in AC they seem to have a room with two beds, but I'm not sure if that was their bedroom or the kids'. Barely matters anyway, that was a Cloti scene for sure.

 

[Theozilla]

Yeah OTWTAS explicitly implies Cloud and Tifa are at the very least sleeping in the same room, if not the same bed.
Any other scenario doesn’t make sense and/or somehow would have to argue that Tifa went all Paranormal Activity on Cloud the entire night.

 

[Eerie]

I know in AC they seem to have a room with two beds, but I'm not sure if that was their bedroom or the kids'. Barely matters anyway, that was a Cloti scene for sure.

It's the kids' bedroom LOL. There's a picture drawn by Marlene in that bedroom of the Cloud and Tifa side by side. Barret's, for some reason, is in another part of the wall.

Also I will side eye anyone who doesn't understand that cloti theme is reunion and that AC/C is exactly that, with them separated at first and reuniting at the end.

On a side note, I learned today that Uematsu composed Aerith's theme not for her death scene, but with her in mind waiting for Zack.

 

[KindOfBlue]

I happened upon this post here from a while back suggesting they were in bed together so I was wondering if anybody could provide a screenshot of the official English release to verify this ?

Yeah... I didn't want to bring that up but since someone else did, I have to wonder if these people who are upset about the localization are mostly Clerith fans. (Marlene also refers to Cloud and Tifa as her parents, and it specifically says Tifa is sitting up in bed when she asks Cloud if he loves her )

Though I'll admit, the way they DID translate the koibito line was a bit... odd. It was almost as if they knew about the LTD nonsense or something. Both the French and German translation used a word for lover so... who knows?

On a side note, I learned today that Uematsu composed Aerith's theme not for her death scene, but with her in mind waiting for Zack.

I really want to see this in the Remake! I was pretty surprised it was written with them in mind given how little focus they had together at that point when it was just the OG.

I’m a firm believer of two things: Zack and Aerith won’t be alive by the time this Remake is done, and the other is more general: till death do us part. I never bought into the idea of Zack and Aerith reuniting in the Lifestream and continuing their relationship after death, or Cloud letting himself die to reunite with Aerith for that matter. As far as I’m concerned, Zack x Aerith and Cloud x Aerith both end in death, though that’s what makes them so impactful and I think taking that away would be a big disservice to the characters.

I would be very shocked if they finally put the nail in the coffin on the LTD putting Cloud and Tifa together without any room for doubt, but I feel like that should’ve been done long ago. I know the prevailing idea seems to be that this is some kind of choose-your-own-waifu game and that the ambiguity is meant to appease all shippers, but I don’t see how Cloud and Tifa getting together after Aerith’s death somehow takes away from what she had with Cloud while she was alive. If anything, it’s Cloud’s mental crisis that takes away from their relationship, not the fact that she dies and he hooks up with somebody else.

If Aerith lived, then I would understand the ambiguity. But if she doesn’t, why not just put Cloud and Tifa together especially considering their development from the Lifestream scene onwards?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

On a side note, I learned today that Uematsu composed Aerith's theme not for her death scene, but with her in mind waiting for Zack.

I've forgotten all about this. When did he mention that?

 

[Shadowfox]

It's the kids' bedroom LOL. There's a picture drawn by Marlene in that bedroom of the Cloud and Tifa side by side. Barret's, for some reason, is in another part of the wall.

IIRC, ACC made it even clearer that it's the kids' room -- we see an early scene where Denzel wakes up in one of the beds in that same room and Marlene's sitting beside him.

 

[Eerie]

I've forgotten all about this. When did he mention that?

Found it and interestingly enough, that scene doesn't exist in the OG, so now I wonder if they scrapped it? Or maybe he mixed it up with Elmyra's scene, but it was still the image of Aerith waiting for Zack that made him compose her theme.

Also @KindOfBlue what's been asked from Cloud and Tifa to be a couple is absolutely ridiculous, they've been given way more than any other couple yet everyone doubts. Seeing the part 1 of Remake, I am absolutely sure they will erase any doubt now.

 

[Shadowfox]

Found it and interestingly enough, that scene doesn't exist in the OG, so now I wonder if they scrapped it? Or maybe he mixed it up with Elmyra's scene, but it was still the image of Aerith waiting for Zack that made him compose her theme.

It sounds like the scene was originally supposed to be of Aerith and Zack, and Uematsu wrote the song for that. Maybe they decided later on to keep Zack's presence as a mystery until the Lifestream reveal? That could be why they used that scene for Elmyra and her husband instead.

 

[Stiggie]

I have to say, Aeriths theme being about Zack is pretty huge imo.

So basically Tifa's theme seems to be a duet with Cloud. Aeriths seems to be about Zack. Midgar Blues is Cloud and Tifa, Hollow is about regret, the price of freedom seems pretty clear, what do we know about Clouds theme?

 

[KindOfBlue]

Also @KindOfBlue what's been asked from Cloud and Tifa to be a couple is absolutely ridiculous, they've been given way more than any other couple yet everyone doubts. Seeing the part 1 of Remake, I am absolutely sure they will erase any doubt now.

It won’t count unless I have Cloud and Tifa’s children’s birth certificates personally hand-delivered to me by Nojima himself, dammit! jk I just think the vagueness from SE is pointless shipper bait

 

[Ryushikaze]

Cloud/Tifa be like

View attachment 7767

Only if Zack and Aerith are the Mertzes.
(Also they still managed to have a kid with those beds)