SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[a_apple 2.0]

He flat out denied anything between him and Tifa. He did not lie to us (I hope). I would hope the words from Cloud's mouth are his truest feelings such things like "No" or "It's not like that", and "more like...I can't explain it" basically means Tifa is my friend. He denied Tifa being something "special" to him. So let's look out for that. I am not the one denying. Cloud is. He said it straight. this time we don't make the choices. If you look at it as Cloud not denying the fact of him being with someone then that is your antennae but he clearly did. Cloud could have said she's just a friend which they are. Cloud and Tifa have been described as childhood friends many times. So we already know they are, but for the both of them to be something more has been denied by Cloud himself.

I think you concentrate too much on the dialog here, you have to keep in mind that it's a bit off from the japanese script so taking it as 100% as gospel doesn't really help since in the jp script Aerith's second line is quite different after she asks Cloud if Tifa is his waifu and after he denies it her second line is something like "now you're getting angry again" poking fun at him getting so touchy.

Rather look at the context of the scene. Tifa is NOT Clouds gf at this point, so obviously he isn't lying or anything when he denies that they are together what's interesting about his reaction tho is how he overreacts when he is asks about his relationship with her, he gets very angry for no reason combine that with him not being able to describe what he is feeling for her and it gets obvious that there is something more between those two.

 

[Clear A]

Cloud did not get angry because Aerith asked him questions. You can add anything you want if you would like but like I said Cloud's words, not the player or any third-party member. The developers of SE have said that Cloud and Tifa are friends or childhood friends, Cloud could have said that which is what I think he would have said in response to those questions. Well those are Cloud's words in context so that is what I am looking at. If anyone has a problem with what Cloud said that is their OWN take on it and not the original intent. Cloud clearly denied it and that is what viewers will recall. Tifa is not Cloud's gf at this point or in the next so you are right. Why? Simply because Cloud denied it. That is why.

Even if Cloud would have said "Yes" to those questions would you deny he did? No, because he said that. But he said "NO" so I am not denying anything based on the context of this scene.

 

[Eerie]

@Clear A you can edit your post instead of triple posting ^^' You're on a forum, not Twitter here.

Also, you seem to forget two things:

- the scene in the sewers is a bad translation in English; Tifa clearly asks him if they can trust Aerith, if she's not a spy. They're doing dangerous work and this girl barges in, of course she has to ask how they met etc. Buit she trust Aerith after Cloud tells her that. It really sounds different in French.

- As Marle says in Intermission, Cloud is... unwilling to let his true feelings known. His love for Tifa is a secret and must remain so - this is a clear allusion to the Lifestream scene. Aerith knows right off the bat that Tifa is dear to him - just how much dear is unclear to her until she sees the flower on the bar's counter. The fact that Cloud cannot express what kind of relationship he has with Tifa is *normal*: they are not a couple, he's clearly very attracted to her (so far she's the only one he's openly flirted with), and most important, HIS HEAD IS A MESS and he doesn't remember being in love with her. Yet Jenova manipulates him to get him think that Tifa noticed him because that's always what he has wanted, since they were kids, right into adulthood.

If you take Cloud's words for what they are, then take Aerith's for what they are too: what he might feel for her, even if he imagines falling for her, is just his imagination.

 

[KindOfBlue]

IKR. I ventured into Twitter because I don't have a PS5 and wanted to be updated on Intergrade / Intermission but man. Just. man. A lot of people there seem to just live off a steady diet of fanart, fanfic and screenshots with zero context.

FF7 Twitter SUCKS and yet the drama can get pretty entertaining sometimes lol…hey, I gotta find some enjoyment however I can

Everyone should just listen to Marle. She literally says Cloud is emotionally unavailable and she's absolutely right lol.

Marle is the true canon love interest

Cloud did not get angry because Aerith asked him questions. You can add anything you want if you would like but like I said Cloud's words, not the player or any third-party member. The developers of SE have said that Cloud and Tifa are friends or childhood friends, Cloud could have said that which is what I think he would have said in response to those questions. Well those are Cloud's words in context so that is what I am looking at. If anyone has a problem with what Cloud said that is their OWN take on it and not the original intent. Cloud clearly denied it and that is what viewers will recall. Tifa is not Cloud's gf at this point or in the next so you are right. Why? Simply because Cloud denied it. That is why.

Even if Cloud would have said "Yes" to those questions would you deny he did? No, because he said that. But he said "NO" so I am not denying anything based on the context of this scene.

I mean all of that can already be answered by the OG, Cloud denies being in a relationship with Tifa because they’re not in a relationship but his memories and feelings about Tifa are still being suppressed by Jenova at this point in the story so he doesn’t quite know how to answer because he literally cannot. Cloud’s an unreliable narrator even going back as far as the OG, it’s not his fault but that’s what his whole arc in the OG is about. It all leads up to the Lifestream, where his true feelings are unlocked and his memories are restored.

 

[Clear A]

Well Cloud was sure certain as anyone of his feelings in the video I just posted. Cloud is still being himself it is just that the Mako poisoning is activating his memories in the most invasive way possible so now he isn't only remembering the past, but future occurrences. Cloud voiced his true feelings and I would hope what was responded was OG. I am not saying that Cloud denied Tifa's friendship I'm just saying he denied her being "special" to him. He did not know how to explain it because he just got reunited with Tifa. But it is confirmed by SE that Tifa is his friend or "childhood" friend. Well I am not adding anything to it as you can see. Only way to find out is to wait for the completion of the remake and for Part 2, even if we already know what is going to happen, we will see their interaction in new graphics form.

 

[LNK]

Well Cloud was sure certain as anyone of his feelings in the video I just posted. Cloud is still being himself it is just that the Mako poisoning is activating his memories in the most invasive way possible so now he isn't only remembering the past, but future occurrences. Cloud voiced his true feelings and I would hope what was responded was OG. I am not saying that Cloud denied Tifa's friendship I'm just saying he denied her being "special" to him. He did not know how to explain it because he just got reunited with Tifa. But it is confirmed by SE that Tifa is his friend or "childhood" friend. Well I am not adding anything to it as you can see. Only way to find out is to wait for the completion of the remake and for Part 2, even if we already know what is going to happen, we will see their interaction in new graphics form.

Cloud did deny Tifa being "special" to him, but so do teenagers in real life. Even adults do it. In the end of the OG we are shown that she is "special" to him, as evidenced by the Lifestream/Highwind scenes

 

[KindOfBlue]

Well Cloud was sure certain as anyone of his feelings in the video I just posted. Cloud is still being himself it is just that the Mako poisoning is activating his memories in the most invasive way possible so now he isn't only remembering the past, but future occurrences. Cloud voiced his true feelings and I would hope what was responded was OG. I am not saying that Cloud denied Tifa's friendship I'm just saying he denied her being "special" to him. He did not know how to explain it because he just got reunited with Tifa. But it is confirmed by SE that Tifa is his friend or "childhood" friend. Well I am not adding anything to it as you can see. Only way to find out is to wait for the completion of the remake and for Part 2, even if we already know what is going to happen, we will see their interaction in new graphics form.

Of course Cloud thinks he knows better because his mind is being manipulated, so he can’t truly be “himself” because there’s significant parts of his memories and personality that are still locked away…granted, he’s not going to admit to anybody let alone a stranger that he likes Tifa anyways even if they were actually in a relationship and if he wasn’t all messed up, but I think you’d really have to ignore the Lifestream scene (the most important scene of the OG, mind you) if you want to suggest that Tifa isn’t special to Cloud, I mean, his feelings for her are the whole reason he looked up to Sephiroth and wanted to join SOLDIER in the first place which set his entire involvement in the planet’s crisis in motion

 

[Clear A]

Of course Cloud thinks he knows better because his mind is being manipulated, so he can’t truly be “himself” because there’s significant parts of his memories and personality that are still locked away…granted, he’s not going to admit to anybody let alone a stranger that he likes Tifa even if they were actually in a relationship but I think you’d really have to ignore the Lifestream scene (the most important scene of the OG, mind you) if you want to suggest that Tifa isn’t important to Cloud, I mean, she’s the whole reason he looked up to Sephiroth and wanted to join SOLDIER in the first place which set his entire involvement in the planet’s crisis in motion

Cloud wanted to join SOLDIER because he wanted to be like the war hero Sephiroth at the time. Until kid Tifa brought up saving her in the bind up to evoke Cloud to save her. Cloud did not expect that to come from Tifa but he promised anyway as a friend would. But Cloud did not join SOLDIER to save Tifa initially, as I have just described. He wanted to join SOLDIER just to be like what was portrayed in the media at Nibelheim. Saving Tifa was after the fact. I don't know if Cloud's feelings for Tifa are reasons he looked up to Sephiroth. I mean he flat out says that he wanted to be like Sephiroth and didn't mention saving Tifa. Cloud is shy and never stood up to talk to Tifa when they were kids, even ignoring her actually. Could be he has something for her but we find out that it is not like that. He harbors no romance for Tifa after being asked those intimate questions.

I did not suggest Tifa was not important to Cloud, just not in a "romantic" way.

 

[LNK]

I did not suggest Tifa was not important to Cloud just not in a "romantic" way.

Didn't the Lifestream/highwind scenes prove that she was important in a romantic way?

 

[LNK]

"Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match. "

This was from a quote in an ultimania around 2010. The article about it is on this website

https://thelifestream.net/lifestrea...9/this-just-in-the-love-triangle-debate-over/

 

[loozzer]

He harbors no romance for Tifa after being asked those intimate questions.

i think it would be an incorrect interpretation to take his answer at face value. most people deny romantic attraction when asked about their crushes. especially if they think the other person doesn't feel the same way.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Cloud wanted to join SOLDIER because he wanted to be like the war hero Sephiroth at the time. Until kid Tifa brought up saving her in the bind up to evoke Cloud to save her. Cloud did not expect that to come from Tifa but he promised anyway as a friend would. But Cloud did not join SOLDIER to save Tifa initially, as I have just described. He wanted to join SOLDIER just to be like what was portrayed in the media at Nibelheim. Saving Tifa was after the fact. I don't know if Cloud's feelings for Tifa are reasons he looked up to Sephiroth. I mean he flat out says that he wanted to be like Sephiroth and didn't mention saving Tifa. Cloud is shy and never stood up to talk to Tifa when they were kids, even ignoring her actually. Could be he has something for her but we find out that it is not like that. He harbors no romance for Tifa after being asked those intimate questions.

I did not suggest Tifa was not important to Cloud, just not in a "romantic" way.

You might have to rewatch the Lifestream scene. The reason Cloud wanted to be like Sephiroth in the first place was because he blamed himself for being too weak to save Tifa when they both fell off Mt. Nibel. His anger at himself is what led him to want to be strong like Sephiroth. Not to mention SE themselves have explicitly and consistently referred to the Lifestream scene as the moment Cloud and Tifa’s romantic feelings are revealed. As far as Cloud’s denial goes, again, he doesn’t know how to answer truthfully because he literally can’t, and even if he could, he’d probably be too shy to admit it anyways.

 

[Clear A]

"Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match. "

This was from a quote in an ultimania around 2010. The article about it is on this website

Well we can only see what that means when Part II or Part III is released. Then we can conclude, but as of now we only have polygonal evidence of the Lifestream and Highwind thus far which could change. The Lifestream event only happened in FFVII OG so we have to wait on that to confirm.

Well I played the remake and watched the childhood scene of Cloud and Tifa and Cloud deliberately said he wanted to be like Sephiroth. UNTIL Tifa brought up saving her if she was in trouble, THEN Cloud gave the promise to save her. THEN we have the Lifestream event which leads us to what caused him to be who he was to this moment. Yes, the NEXT event- the Lifestream (we have to go in chronological order) is when we realize saving Tifa is more important because he did feel bad that he did not do that as we have seen in multiple compilation in FFVII: Ever Crisis and in FFVII. But we have yet to see the remake rendition, so let us wait on that.

Well when Cloud answered those questions he did not seem too shy. He literally said "No" and "It's not like that". He could not explain what was going on inside him because 1. he is affected by the mako and Jenova effect or 2. he is still trying to figure out just what Tifa is to him which could be of friendship or comradery. Which it is. I'll give you one thing we have no confirmation of who is of romantic interest to Cloud so it can be anyone's guess. But to say that Cloud did not answer truthfully as he just did is crazy because we just watched him say those words.

 

[LNK]

Well we can only see what that means when Part II or Part III is released. Then we can conclude, but as of now we only have polygonal evidence of the Lifestream and Highwind thus far which could change. The Lifestream event only happened in FFVII OG so we have to wait on that to confirm.

My mistake. I thought you were talking about the OG. If this is strictly about remake, then I agree. Cloud hasn't shown he has romantic feelings for Tifa. But, I do think the devs are pushing more towards him having those feelings. Only time will tell when the next parts come out though.

And taking what Cloud says at face value, would be a mistake, imo. He is very closed off when it comes to his feelings.

 

[KindOfBlue]

My mistake. I thought you were talking about the OG. If this is strictly about remake, then I agree. Cloud hasn't shown he has romantic feelings for Tifa. But, I do think the devs are pushing more towards him having those feelings. Only time will tell when the next parts come out though.

And taking what Cloud says at face value, would be a mistake, imo. He is very closed off when it comes to his feelings.

I wonder what’s gonna happen when the remake is done and people can no longer use “let’s see when the remake is over” to put off addressing what we’ve already known from the OG lol

 

[frosty]

2. he is still trying to figure out just what Tifa is to him which could be of friendship or comradery. Which it is

I don't think anyone has difficulty explaining friendship as a feeling though.

A: Is she your girlfriend?
C: No.
A: But she's someone special (ENG) / You're getting flustered (JP)
C: It's not like that. She's like, the best bro ever. Awesome person. Got me a job and even a room for free! We grew up together, you know? (Friendship)

A: Is she your girlfriend?
C: No.
A: (But she's someone special (ENG) / You're getting flustered (JP)
C: It's not like that. I just really appreciate how she puts in 110% in all our missions, you know? I know if I had to blow up another reactor I can count on her (Comrade)

It's when it gets to the "well, she's a friend and really good to me, and we grew up together, and we just reconnected, and yeah it's weird I stand in the middle of somewhere and randomly think of her and spit her name out. Why did I do that? But you're still kind of a stranger so I don't feel I need to tell you all this stuff...so..yeah" that it gets to the "I can't explain it"

While I agree again, Cloud's feelings are not explicitly clear in ALL scenarios, I really don't think he's struggling to decide to explain between friendship and comradeship.

 

[Clear A]

We can ALL agree that Tifa is Cloud's childhood or present friend and comrade. SE confirmed, therefore, it is a reality.

It's when it gets to the "well, she's a friend and really good to me, and she's hot, and we grew up together, and we just reconnected, and you're still kind of a stranger so I don't feel I need to tell you all this stuff...so..yeah" that it gets to the "I can't explain it"

Again, you are adding your own spin into the plot which is not what you should be doing. Most people will say that he gave us what he felt right there, a "No" and "It's not like that." From Cloud Strife, himself. Confirmed.

Maybe can only go so far but in this case he gave us the answers to those questions, instead of the typical ".....". So give or take adding your own interjectory is only going to further detach from the OG if you see FFVII remake that way.

Maybe he was about to say "More like a..." A Friend? "I can't explain it" A sister? Who knows. But now we can knock off the checklist as Aerith questions him. I'm sure Cloud would not deny friendship. Hopefully not, SE.

I am being neutral and opaque, Cloud said it straight.

PS: Wasn't it Jesse who also asked him about Tifa and at that point Cloud couldn't complete his sentence? Well we meet the same question and get his responses. Quick answers but we can begin to deduce what Tifa is to Cloud (a friend or a lover). I mean it is up to the player but why make it harder than it has to be? If you see it in another light kudos to you but that doesn't make it official. What has been said is official, and that is that.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Again, you are adding your own spin into the plot which is not what you should be doing

That's not true tho. Normally a character in a story is characterize through his actions and behavior, that's how it works. We look at how Cloud is reacting towards other characters and his environment and try to interpret what is happening inside his head and what the story is trying to tell us here, there is always a surface level to a character (in Clouds case that would be his to cool for school Soldier behavior) and also that what makes them tick deep down (which would be in Clouds case that he is a guy full of insecurities, wanting to be accepted by others etc.) So your unwillingness to consider any of these things is a rather weird choice imo.

 

[Clear A]

^Cloud is only being misunderstood by others. And. Cloud never wanted to be accepted by others. If he joined SOLDIER it was, initially under the vast sky, to be like Sephiroth. With little knowledge of what he was getting into. The latter would be because he made a promise to Tifa, initiated by Tifa.
Even Aerith pushes Cloud to do something he did not initially intend, but that is beside the point.

Actually I am considering, and I have not totally knocked out the possibility. Even though, at the end, I am only making it harder for myself. You could say Cloud is just being Cloud. I could say that too, but Cloud really gave answers and that is enough for me to strike out the options.

He said how he felt with Aerith and now we know.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Cloud never wanted to be accepted by others. If he joined SOLDIER it was, initially under the vast sky, to be like Sephiroth. With little knowledge of what he was getting into. The latter would be because he made a promise to Tifa, initiated by Tifa.

Even that isn't true, one of Cloud's biggest motivation to join Soldier was because of Tifa, he wanted to be seen and to be noticed by her and even after his mako poisoning when he took on his Soldier personality this feeling is still manifested inside him. We see it happen slip through when Cloud tries to answer Jessies question if he and Tifa were close as kids.

Regarding your other stance I have to disagree. I think Clouds behavior when Aerith asks him about his relationship with Tifa already tells us about his hidden feelings for her.

 

[Clear A]

Even that isn't true, one of Cloud's biggest motivation to join Soldier was because of Tifa, he wanted to be seen and to be noticed by her and even after his mako poisoning when he took on his Soldier personality this feeling is still manifested inside him. We see it happen slip through when Cloud tries to answer Jessies question if he and Tifa were close as kids.

I feel like we are playing a different game here and reading a different script. Cloud plainly said he wanted to be like Sephiroth. Never had Cloud ever said that he joined SOLDIER because of Tifa, and we all KNOW by now (knock on wood) that Tifa is only involved because she initiated partners with Cloud to save her. Not that Cloud had been there to initiate going to SOLDIER for her. No.

He literally hid from Tifa and even ignored her when they were children. Tifa: "Are you ignoring me?" Albeit, waving at Cloud catching his attention.

Cloud and Tifa were distant as children and only began to get close under their one night sky. He never states that he and Tifa were close to anyone.

Regarding your other stance I have to disagree. I think Clouds behavior when Aerith asks him about his relationship with Tifa already tells us about his hidden feelings for her.

There is deduction based on what is being said. Cloud can't explain what he is feeling with Tifa does not mean it is romantic. It just means he doesn't know and we the player don't know exactly except by deduction.

SE have said they are childhood friends and present friends and that is enough.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Never had Cloud ever said that he joined SOLDIER because of Tifa

C'mon

 

[KindOfBlue]

I feel like we are playing a different game here and reading a different script. Cloud plainly said he wanted to be like Sephiroth. Never had Cloud ever said that he joined SOLDIER because of Tifa, and we all KNOW by now (knock on wood) that Tifa is only involved because she initiated partners with Cloud to save her. Not that Cloud had been there to initiate going to SOLDIER for her. No.

He literally hid from Tifa and even ignored her when they were children. Tifa: "Are you ignoring me?" Albeit, waving at Cloud catching his attention.

Cloud and Tifa were distant as children and only began to get close under their one night sky. He never states that he and Tifa were close to anyone.


There is deduction based on what is being said. Cloud can't explain what he is feeling with Tifa does not mean it is romantic. It just means he doesn't know and we the player don't know exactly except by deduction.

SE have said they are childhood friends and present friends and that is enough.

I’m just gonna come right out and ask, is there a reason you insist on ignoring what we already know from the OG and developers’ statements in the ultimania books?

 

[Clear A]

Albeit it, Cloud never really joined SOLDIER initially for Tifa to notice him, he initially joined SOLDIER to be like Sephiroth. But talking about the polygonal game development, you do have a point. But when the remake comes out and it panes differently then what? We need to wait for FFVII remake Part 2 or even Part 3 to come out to even begin to piece things together. Because if the remake panes differently (which at this rate it's going could be) then what?

If Cloud in the remake reinstates these words and it panes out that way then we can complete this trilogy. We can go ahead and say Cloud joined for Tifa to notice him if that is what SE intends to reveal. But that by no means equates to Cloud and Tifa being romantic partners by a stretch.

Is "real" Cloud the one who is talking here? We can't even say Cloud is the one talking or voicing his feelings because his name isn't even indicated here. It could be a slight narration. But I give you the benefit of a doubt until Part 2 or Part 3 is released.

I’m just gonna come right out and ask, is there a reason you insist on ignoring what we already know from the OG and developers’ statements in the ultimania books?

What specifically do you mean?

 

[Eerie]

You're literally ignoring the screenshots from the Lifestream scene where Cloud states he wanted to be noticed by Tifa, smh.