SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I agree that logically, Reno and Rude should be able to see them. They fought the gang, so it's hard to understand why Rufus can see them but not Reno and Rude. Unless Rufus could see them *before* his fight with Cloud, for a reason yet to be depicted.
 
LicoriceAllsorts

LicoriceAllsorts

Donator
I preferred it when she was just his dream.
This "projecting some sort of conscience through the Lifestream" a conscience that knows the future in the way she doesn't, but doesn't know her heart, because she also doesn't know it....
Also, it's "consciousness", not conscience. Your conscience is your moral compass.
 
H

Humming

Pro Adventurer
So this Aerith knows the immediate future and has feelings for Cloud (locked in her heart or not). Could that mean that our Aerith, the one in Shinra's HQ, still hasn't developed feelings for Spikey? Maybe it's a stretch, sorry, but reading the translation the 'don't fall in love with me' sounds like it to come into play later and not now in part 1.

Anyway, even if they don't have a thing right now (they just met), doesn't mean that there's no mutual interest, but it would blow up the 'love at first sight' some people argue that happened.

Edited the 'from'. My point is if it's not a projection but a different Aerith summoned from the lifestream, both Aerith's could be at different points in time?
 
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Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
It's not and Aerith from the future though, it's an Aerith who's aware of the future:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415610345415090180

Aerith projects herself, but it's an Aerith who, like in a lot of scenes, has been shown to know a lot about the immediate future. And it makes sense that if she knows Cloud's feelings for Tifa, then she wouldn't want to fall for him, because no matter what, it's just asking to be heartbroken.

Also:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415587635469307907

True Cloud does indeed show up there and lol, "blunder", really Cloud?
 
Maidenofwar

Maidenofwar

They/Them
"Despite what her words request, perhaps her true heart and thoughts are closed off"

Interesting. Just to think though an Aerith with awareness of the future having to retrace her steps through the story while knowing things - and other info Audrey has been delivering from the Ultimania+ makes me think Zack is not on the same timeline (yet?) so it might be a while before Aerith and Zack reunite still? So Aerith has to struggle with her feelings all that time :(

I also read Cloud was protesting Aerith's "Don't fall in love with me-" line which is what I thought. This is part of what makes it especially hard for Aerith I think.
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Cloud is really confused in her scene, and I must say that it's one of the scenes where I replayed in slomo his reaction a lot because I couldn't interpret his line of thoughts - so being confused does fit I suppose.

But yeah, Aerith is really in a difficult place right now :( One where she cannot meet with the man who truly cherishes her, and one who is kind to her truly loves another woman. I've been contemplating that a lot since last year, trying to figure out how this will play. I don't really know if she'll manage to protect herself or not. If she has other visions of Zack, maybeeeeeeeee.
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
Didn't read like fanfiction to me.

There's been a foundation to Cloud and Tifa for awhile, the writers have been building it up each adaption and this is just another way it's being expanded upon. The age of perpetual ambiguity is over.
 
null

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
frosty said:
or...can this be framed as fans were actually right in their reading of events and characterizations, in line with what the creators wanted? ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah it's just more confirmation, but we sure came a long way, didn't we? Starting off with this:

Tifa
It's true that we weren't THAT close, but...
After you left town, I really thought about you a lot.
I used to wonder how Cloud was doing.

I wonder if Cloud was able to get into SOLDIER?
I started reading the newspapers, thinking that there might be an article about you.
Click to expand...

And now, apparently, we have all this!
Tifa and Cloud used to play as neighbors before Thea, tifa’s mom passed away.

Thea use to say how handsome Cloud is and see that made Tifa happy.

Tifa was seen as a prize to be won in her hometown because of her looks, this naturally upset her.

Tifa had a pet cat who ran away. Cloud found the cat but was too shy to bring it round so his mother did. (As a side note I did notice in Remake both Cloud and Tifa talk to cats).

Tifa and Cloud both admire each other from a distance when their friendship drifted.

Cloud gathered his courage and awkwardly asked Tifa to meet him at the water tower and then ran away.

Tifa told Cloud she can meet him at midnight.

Tifa dressed up and was expecting Cloud to confess his feelings to her.

Before the water tower:

"My heart races when I see Cloud—It’s not because I like him that I get nervous and can’t speak well. I admire him. He’s something beautiful and out of reach. Like the stars." ?

After talking with Cloud at the water tower and understanding how normal Cloud is she went from crush to love. ?????

When Cloud left Tifa cried. ?

When she received news Shinra troops were coming to Niblehiem she went to check with Claudia if Cloud was coming.

Claudia discovered Cloud only told Tifa he wanted to be in SOLDIER after Tifa asked her if Cloud made it in.

Claudia and Tifa cooked together.

I mean, in the old days it was like "We won't tell you what to think, but the answers are all there." Now it's "Look at it. LOOOOOK AT IT."
 
K

kathy202

Pro Adventurer
This really does feel like a properly thought out cloti fanfic, except that it's not a fanfic. Though um... this style of romance is a bit too much for me. It's sweet, but oh man... And by "this style" I mean things like:

My heart races when I see Cloud—It’s not because I like him that I get nervous and can’t speak well. I admire him. He’s something beautiful and out of reach. Like the stars." ?

After talking with Cloud at the water tower and understanding how normal Cloud is she went from crush to love. ?????
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's pretty normal for teenagers to be like that, but god, this feels like a teenage romance novel... Or maybe it's just the effects of translation and emojis.

Ok, I'll shaddap now and let shippers enjoy their ship being totally canon :mon:
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
The ambiguity was never the point, nor any sort of greater statement towards relationships or the narrative.

It was simply a hole left in the narrative through a complete lack of interest from the authors. They never cared.

That's not nuance or thoughtfulness. That's just an empty, vacuous hole that was left through a dearth of characterization towards the real life dimension of relationships. They're not afraid anymore nor should they be. How Tifa feels and romantically endears herself to some kid named Cloud reflects who she is. That's them and their bond. Of course it's not going to entertain everyone especially when they've projected their own way of picturing how she was which may not even match who she is at all. But that's the point of writing, especially writing a childhood crush and romance.
 
H

Humming

Pro Adventurer
The translation and use of emojis don't fit the writing style, don't worry, or at least that's why I assume. After all, they are trying to put the ideas of specific chapters of the book into small tweet-like texts, and you can't help but lose even the structure itself of the whole scene, so some things can sound a bit out of place or poorly introduced.
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
To give you an idea about a properly translated part:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415557445653602304

I also have to say that the "The kind of 'love' that makes two people want to spend time together" reminds me of Aerith who wants to spend time with both Zack and Cloud - although both times *before* she falls for them. I've seen this part shockingly badly translated by some part of the clerith fandom and they're doing themselves a disfavour because they're missing things like this when they do it. Whatever.
 
Maidenofwar

Maidenofwar

They/Them
Another confirmation Aerith and Cloud had a date (jealous Cloud maybe?) ?

I read elsewhere also there is a bit for the scene in the park similar to where earlier in the chapter Cloud's heart skips a beat, his heart beats faster having Aerith so close or something.

Also this is curious to me because it's not the only time they've been referred to as on a date in the Remake, like there was reference to that for earlier on the Collapsed expressway and stuff as well. Fits in with my belief they were on a date the entire time Aerith said Cloud was already getting paid xD


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415699146900533252
 
Makoeyes987

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I think one thing that the Remake is doing quite effectively is showing that yes, Cloud liked both women.

It's not even really a debate anymore, unless you try to argue who he liked more. Cloud had a crush on Aerith, and a long term crush and particular closeness with Tifa. But in the end, he literally felt for both of them. I would say Tifa definitely edges out given their past and the significance she holds in his heart, which is sadly suppressed due to the experiments he endured.

But that definitely doesn't mean Aerith was insignificant. That is the more nuanced storytelling perspective that's actually reflective of reality. Confronting the fact that yes, sometimes you can end up liking two people for two different reasons at different moments in your life.
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I don't think it's love though, for neither. Just like in the OG, he wavers between them, but he doesn't understand "love" or the feelings associated with it (too fucked up in the head). He's definitely attracted to both, and both are very important to him, just in different ways - the Avalanche team also is important, as is Barret. I just don't see him being in love with Aerith in Remake, at least not yet. And they've known each other for 3 days, so that's normal. With Tifa, it's a bit different because the feelings are here, but they're hidden. What I really enjoy I think is all the relationships and how they're described in Remake, may they be pertaining to Cloud or not.

I think what's really interesting is that Remake, LT-wise, is telling you TWO stories; there's the one that leaves an impression on the mind, however if you rewatch and analyse the scenes, it paints a really different story. At first you get the impression that Cloud's attracted to both women, but that at the same time, Tifa's really special to him. When you go in detail, you realise that he's not wavering *that* much, even if you can get that impression. It was insanehobbit who did an analysis on the filmmaking of some scenes, and she said that after doing that, she had 0 doubt about what they were doing - and I agree!

I should really go into chapter 11 and put my analysis of it here, because it's really interesting to see what they've done with it.
 
null

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
kathy202 said:
This really does feel like a properly thought out cloti fanfic, except that it's not a fanfic. Though um... this style of romance is a bit too much for me. It's sweet, but oh man... And by "this style" I mean things like:


Yeah, it's pretty normal for teenagers to be like that, but god, this feels like a teenage romance novel... Or maybe it's just the effects of translation and emojis.

Ok, I'll shaddap now and let shippers enjoy their ship being totally canon :mon:
Click to expand...

Sorry the emojis were my own silly color commentary... I was just shocked to read that. Tifa being madly in love with and admiring ordinary Cloud before he left town... wow. How long have fans been arguing over whether Tifa fell for Disc 1 Cloud? Literally decades, right? I think it was even discussed here recently. The whole "I didn't really know you well", only becoming gradually interested after he left town, wishing confident Cloud would show up and take control... what does Tifa actually see in the real Cloud? I never expected SE to officially spell it out.

But yeah it does read like a teenage fanfic. Tifa's mom thinks Cloud is handsome... glad we cleared that up.
 
Maidenofwar

Maidenofwar

They/Them
For me it's hard to explain, to find the words, to describe.

To me what Cloud and Aerith have is real, well it is real to them, they are going through and feeling it. With Aerith it's somewhat different this time round due to knowledge, etc from the White Materia and Lifestream, but even then do we know all of what she knows, what the Whispers have stripped away from her, and what she's left with still knowing.

We also know from the Ultimania Cloud has fun spending time with Aerith and the moments he spends with her are precious.

Another detail is that Cloud realizes that Aerith is taking the long route to Sector 7 just to spend more time with him and he smiles when he realizes her feelings here.

I think for me it's like they are starting to fall in love, with Aerith being somewhat more reserved and trying to keep more distance than in OG, while Cloud is confused because he likes her, but also weird stuff is happening which he doesn't understand giving him a sense of sadness and loss around Aerith sometimes.

For me it is amazing because they put so much detail into it all, they even included a bonfire in Chapter 9 which you can get the Cosmo Canyon track from before. YMMV but from all the inputs from the BTS stuff and the staff talk of romantic atmosphere, date, etc I think they approached a lot of things as if they were romantic in nature and they dealt and handled them with that in mind.
 
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