Maidenofwar
They/Them
I don't want to wait another four years for
Aerith and Zack to finally have a conversation that does not feature Cloud
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SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
Wow! This page is buzzing with activity, and the game hasn't even been released yet! Really great to see because I do enjoy debate the LTD and the absurdity of it... it's kind of fun! 
Also, it's nice to see many familiar usernames back around here (I'm saying this as if I haven't disappeared for three years and only returned closer to the release date, lol).
Also, it's nice to see many familiar usernames back around here (I'm saying this as if I haven't disappeared for three years and only returned closer to the release date, lol).Sorry what’s npcs?
Maidenofwar
They/Them
It means non playable characters.
That doesn't mean Tifa was interested in him. Tifa has no fault, there's freedom of association, but let's not pretend Tifa simply didn't let him in the group because he didn't ask or the other kids bullied her into ostracizing Cloud. She just didn't particularly care about Cloud.
He coped by lying to himself about being superior (narcissism often is a sign of loneliness), Tifa retroactively headcanons this childhood friendship because she got a crush on a stranger.
Which is pretty much what it was.
I'm starting to think this is the bone of contention when it comes to Tifa.
It reminds me of another character: Beatrix from Final Fantasy IX (except Beatrix objectively deserves heavy criticism).
I can think of two or three reasons why.
As for the date interpretation: media literacy is definitely some people's weak point.
Cloud looks away like he's about to cry when he assumes Aerith asked about Zack because he thinks it's about love and not him having mental problems. She comforts him immediately and he gets incredibly shy and can't even look at her just for holding her hand.
People expecting a kiss make me cringe because the point is that they were quickly growing fond of each other but his insanity and her passing stopped the relationship dead in its tracks before it could develop into something more.
Regret is the key to their story, not just guilt.
If you think about it, Cloud losing a new friend of a few weeks would be no different than losing Jessie.
Her death simply doesn't work without mutual love involved, end of story.
Zack is a completely different deal, now that's a friend whose loss sends you over the edge.
Attachments
Dude just read traces of two pasts and you find out what Tifa thought of Cloud as a kid heres a quote though
"When they were younger, she and Cloud used to play together a lot. Their houses were right next to each other, and it was easy to go back and forth."
“Cloud has such a beautiful face,” her mother once complimented him at the dining table. Did that happen when she was seven, or was it eight? For some reason that compliment made her feel happy and a bit shy.
Also why is it you say that losing a friend who you have spent time with throughout the game would only affect Cloud if he was in Love. love is not only romantic by that arguement the time he spent with Aerith being a few weeks would not matter it does though and
spoiler Avalanches deaths do affect him in this game
This would only be true if all bonds were the same, but there is more than just friendship and romantic love. Aeriths death comes with a whole host of baggage that jessies doesn't, and is far more symbolical of the death of Clouds mother than Jessies death was. Aerith had a very unique impact on him that is distinct from Jessies. That doesn't make it romantic, which honestly would be the shallowest reason to be upset.
It's not like in OG Cloud literally says I thought those kids were weird but i was the weird one. And the whole plot about him failing to save tifa from the bridge causing him to feel insecure. You know the whole livestream sequence?????? Tifa didn't do anything to leave out cloud. Cloud did it to himself. And that is the end of the story
"When did Cloud start to drift away from everyone? Did something happen between him and the other boys? What was clear in her mind was that it must have had something to do with that disaster incident that happened because of her mother’s death. But he stopped coming over to play even before then.
“I wonder why…”. Nojimi really wrote this book cause he hated that argument
billy22
Pro Adventurer
Nal already mentioned Traces but-
Saying that Cloud "looks like he was about to cry when he thinks Aerith is talking about being in love with Zack" is a MASSIVE reach. Particularly when she demonstrates clear romantic interest repeatedly and the dude just either just pulls away, or still engages in some romantic interaction ie the handholding. You can't have it both it ways, either he understands how she feels and is leading her on because he's a dick, or he simply doesn't have strong romantic interest.
I'm of the mind the writers don't want us to think Cloud is an asshole to women, so I'll take the latter.
The biggest reason it's a point of emphasis is that her chief rival gets a smooch. This despite being shy, and despite not having her big character arc yet. Whereas this is Aerith's swan song. She should be the one getting the kiss here, or something equivalent.
But no, they did none of those things. Why? Why does the shy girl who is still alive get a clear initiated kiss from Cloud? Why doesn't the girl who dies get an equivalent? Not even a peck on the cheek? Just some mild teases with the trip & fall, handholding, and hug at the end?
This was a deliberate decision on the developer's part. These people sat in a room and decided to make Cloud kiss the shy girl who gets to live for Part 3, but not the one he supposedly "truly loves" and also still dies. They could have made up any reason they wanted to make it happen...and didn't.
If they did not kiss in this game, I can't see him kissing her ghost in part 3 either. I suppose multi-timeline shenanigans are in play, but we still haven't got the Zack/Aerith stuff and I have a strong hunch they're going to be hamming that up in the finale. In the meantime Tifa still has the Highwind tango to get to...
Saying that Cloud "looks like he was about to cry when he thinks Aerith is talking about being in love with Zack" is a MASSIVE reach. Particularly when she demonstrates clear romantic interest repeatedly and the dude just either just pulls away, or still engages in some romantic interaction ie the handholding. You can't have it both it ways, either he understands how she feels and is leading her on because he's a dick, or he simply doesn't have strong romantic interest.
I'm of the mind the writers don't want us to think Cloud is an asshole to women, so I'll take the latter.
The biggest reason it's a point of emphasis is that her chief rival gets a smooch. This despite being shy, and despite not having her big character arc yet. Whereas this is Aerith's swan song. She should be the one getting the kiss here, or something equivalent.
But no, they did none of those things. Why? Why does the shy girl who is still alive get a clear initiated kiss from Cloud? Why doesn't the girl who dies get an equivalent? Not even a peck on the cheek? Just some mild teases with the trip & fall, handholding, and hug at the end?
This was a deliberate decision on the developer's part. These people sat in a room and decided to make Cloud kiss the shy girl who gets to live for Part 3, but not the one he supposedly "truly loves" and also still dies. They could have made up any reason they wanted to make it happen...and didn't.
If they did not kiss in this game, I can't see him kissing her ghost in part 3 either. I suppose multi-timeline shenanigans are in play, but we still haven't got the Zack/Aerith stuff and I have a strong hunch they're going to be hamming that up in the finale. In the meantime Tifa still has the Highwind tango to get to...
Do not post untagged Rebirth Spoilers in LTD thread.
[spoilers]
We can't pick and choose clouds character being an ass or not if Tifa is as they say only a rebound (she's not) then he would have also kissed Aerith once she tells him she wants to be with him?
That reminds me Aerith said in the date she wants to be with cloud. If he was so jealous he would just have kissed her there but he doesn't?
We can't pick and choose clouds character being an ass or not if Tifa is as they say only a rebound (she's not) then he would have also kissed Aerith once she tells him she wants to be with him?
Edited to include spoiler tags - Mod.
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Hix
Pro Adventurer
This highlights my biggest issue with Cloud and Aerith being romantically involved, vis, how many hoops must be jumped through to make it even somewhat likely, it falls foul of occam's razor at almost every turn.
You have to ignore the events of Crisis Core and the existence of Zack, a much easier thing to do when he wasn't walking around.
You have to ignore Tifa and her shared feelings/history with Cloud and, in doing so, completely invalidate her character.
You have to start seriously revising events after Aerith's death or, also, just ignore them - included in that is a major overhaul of the intents and consequences of the Lifestream sequence, a part of the game where Tifa literally dives into the deepest parts of Cloud's subconscious and learns he loves her (let's focus on the kids maybe excluded Cloud and ignore that though)
It never ends.
How are people not exhausted by continually putting out fires on this? Remake was even more overtly "Cloti" than ever and now Rebirth all the more so, this isn't by accident, it's by design.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
SE when they try to invite their biggest Clerith influencers to the next media circus -
shady
Pro Adventurer
If you watch the date with Tifa when he says;
This is him working out why they haven't spoken to each other about it (of course they both lie about this)
Please gain some basic media literacy, go read some literature, go watch a film, go speak to real people in the real world, it's getting embarassing now.
"Touchy subject huh? She must still have feelings for Zack"
This is him working out why they haven't spoken to each other about it (of course they both lie about this)
1. He is okay saying this infront of Tifa because he's digging for more information about Zack and is basically asking her is this the reason why you didn't bring it up? She says it's a bit more complicated than that, it's obviously referencing they don't really want to approach the subject with Cloud because they know something weird is going on with Cloud/Zack, that's why they BOTH lie about it and not just one of them. He's not asking because he's digging for more information about Aerith's feelings
2. IF he is truly jealous and digging wanting to know where Aerith stands on Zack it would make more sense for him to to ask Aerith in this moment instead of Tifa if she still has feelings for Zack, the reason he only brings it up to Tifa and not Aerith is because in both scenarios he works out by himself that it's a touchy subject and because Cloud has enough TACT to not say these words infront of Aerith incase it upsets her, how is this not stupidly obvious?
3. The emotions on Cloud's face and Cody's line delivery of this line are about as neutral as you can possibly get, the camera doesn't even bother to show you the emotions running through Cloud's face because he basically doesn't have any, it's just a STATEMENT it isn't some anger and jealousy fueled comment, if you somehow get that from the line delivery and the fact the camera can't even be bothered to change to look at Cloud's face then it's inconsequential.
4. Let's contrast that with the extreme close up of Cloud's face as he says "Not one BIT" to Tifa, why does the camera do this? Because the intent this time IS to show you the emotions on Cloud's face because there is something to be emotional about, coupled with Cody's delivery and the emphasis on the word BIT, it's intent is to show the player how unwavering and steely his determination is to let Tifa know she is not getting ahead of herself and that he feels the same, because in the previous shot -- BODY LANGUAGE 101 -- you can see she is clammed up and folding in on herself and this is why it's important for the player to see Cloud taking the lead and showing Tifa that she can trust in him with her feelings.
2. IF he is truly jealous and digging wanting to know where Aerith stands on Zack it would make more sense for him to to ask Aerith in this moment instead of Tifa if she still has feelings for Zack, the reason he only brings it up to Tifa and not Aerith is because in both scenarios he works out by himself that it's a touchy subject and because Cloud has enough TACT to not say these words infront of Aerith incase it upsets her, how is this not stupidly obvious?
3. The emotions on Cloud's face and Cody's line delivery of this line are about as neutral as you can possibly get, the camera doesn't even bother to show you the emotions running through Cloud's face because he basically doesn't have any, it's just a STATEMENT it isn't some anger and jealousy fueled comment, if you somehow get that from the line delivery and the fact the camera can't even be bothered to change to look at Cloud's face then it's inconsequential.
4. Let's contrast that with the extreme close up of Cloud's face as he says "Not one BIT" to Tifa, why does the camera do this? Because the intent this time IS to show you the emotions on Cloud's face because there is something to be emotional about, coupled with Cody's delivery and the emphasis on the word BIT, it's intent is to show the player how unwavering and steely his determination is to let Tifa know she is not getting ahead of herself and that he feels the same, because in the previous shot -- BODY LANGUAGE 101 -- you can see she is clammed up and folding in on herself and this is why it's important for the player to see Cloud taking the lead and showing Tifa that she can trust in him with her feelings.
Please gain some basic media literacy, go read some literature, go watch a film, go speak to real people in the real world, it's getting embarassing now.
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faefolk
Pro Adventurer
All of this is why I didn't identifying as a 'shipper' for the longest time. Because I didn't ever see Aerith as a valid choice from a narrative perspective. My assumption was always just that Cloud and Tifa are romantic in the story and were the canon pairing at the end. It's not like it's an uncommon plot where there is a potential other love interest earlier in a story. There are tonnes of books like this. Some of them they're actually officially with another person prior to the end. But the canon pairing is always who the protagonist ends up with in the end. That's always, always been Tifa. So I hate identifying as a shipper tbh and only really argue with people because it frustrates me that they don't understand how stories function.
yeah, I'm continuously astounded by how much effort people put into this. It would be so much easier to just go "yeah, I know Cloud and Tifa are a thing, I am not trying to say AerithxCloud is the story, it's just something I personally like as an idea" and it would be totally valid without any of these hoops.
If you like Aerith and Cloud, why on earth would you ship them together? Which essentially screws over everyone including them? Aeriths dead so it will never happen, so that way only pain lies.
I mean, it's bad enough that it royally screws over Tifa and Zack and I have no idea why you'd want that. But even Cloud and Aerith are just better off with their respective partners than together.
I will just never understand this one. The only conclusion I can come to is that people ship it simply because they shipped it before aeriths death and all the reveals, and now the only reason they continue is a stubborn refusal to just let it go.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Well the reason I don't ship Zerith as main ship is because
even in Rebirth they as adults don't have a conversation that is about them and their relationship and not Cloud
Well, they do in Crisis Core. But I agree that if that is indeed the case in Rebirth, and perhaps more importantly, part 3, that that is extremely F-ing stupid. Stupid to the point where it by itself is arguably enough to justify calling this entire thing a trash story. There is not a single way where you can have Aerith and Zacks reunion not be about Aerith and Zack that is not such bad writing that it's just insulting to the audiences intellect.
To me though, stuff like that is honestly why I loathe Clerith so much as a concept. Even if Cloud and Aerith are a thing, then Zack and Aeriths reunion should still be about Zack and Aerith. So to me it just reinforces my feeling that Clerith just fundamentally harms the product, making me dislike it.
Then, did the Clerith influencers actually understand the story, and are they real fans of the series?
And let's be for real, if a company puts you on their payroll to be excited for their products and you get upset over shipping and go on ranty streams, you're probably not aligned to the brand anyway.
10/10 i will just pay someone else in the ambassador shortlist and take away their privileges and rob them of thier first dibs to exclusive content cos as a brand manager, my first instinct is to curate a community who actually supports my brand
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Yumelinh
Pro Adventurer
While this is a very valid reason, it's a little bit unfair to hold it against them because Zack died before Aerith and Cloud even met each other
and after that, pretty much every appearance of them was linked to 'helping' Cloud in a way or another. But you're right. Coming to think of it, Zerith wasn't treated very well after CC, and hopefully, we'll get them talking about themselves outside of the whole Cloud situation (he should be able to take care of his own problems for once and let these two just talk about something else, lol)
eleamaya
Pro Adventurer
There is Not a Love Triangle in Final Fantasy VII
I know it's controversial, but let's address the misconception that Final Fantasy VII contains a love triangle.
www.siliconera.com
shady
Pro Adventurer
There are multiple interactions where Cloud says Aerith is "acting weird" especially in a specific scene late game, not that she herself is weird this is true -- as we know from TOTP though she hates being alluded to anything considered weird. This is the contrast between Zack and Cloud, when Aerith apologises for acting/being weird Zack just says being normal is overrated.
shady
Pro Adventurer
For anyone thinking that the "Date" is what's going to cause all the controversy and such and how ballsy the devs were to do it -- the only thing I can say is you are in for an absolute whirlwind that you have no idea is about to hit you in regards to this LTD, and it only leads one way, the date should give you a clue which way that is, it isn't something that just happens out of the blue for fanservice either -- no matter what people try to say otherwise.