SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[frosty]

SE when they try to invite their biggest Clerith influencers to the next media circus -

Then, did the Clerith influencers actually understand the story, and are they real fans of the series?

And let's be for real, if a company puts you on their payroll to be excited for their products and you get upset over shipping and go on ranty streams, you're probably not aligned to the brand anyway.

10/10 i will just pay someone else in the ambassador shortlist and take away their privileges and rob them of thier first dibs to exclusive content cos as a brand manager, my first instinct is to curate a community who actually supports my brand

 

[Nal]

This highlights my biggest issue with Cloud and Aerith being romantically involved, vis, how many hoops must be jumped through to make it even somewhat likely, it falls foul of occam's razor at almost every turn.

You have to ignore the events of Crisis Core and the existence of Zack, a much easier thing to do when he wasn't walking around.
You have to ignore Tifa and her shared feelings/history with Cloud and, in doing so, completely invalidate her character.
You have to start seriously revising events after Aerith's death or, also, just ignore them - included in that is a major overhaul of the intents and consequences of the Lifestream sequence, a part of the game where Tifa literally dives into the deepest parts of Cloud's subconscious and learns he loves her (let's focus on the kids maybe excluded Cloud and ignore that though)

It never ends.

How are people not exhausted by continually putting out fires on this? Remake was even more overtly "Cloti" than ever and now Rebirth all the more so, this isn't by accident, it's by design.

Theres just so many things to disprove for the argument to work that its not even close to the actual story anymore

 

[Yumelinh]

Well the reason I don't ship Zerith as main ship is because

Spoiler

even in Rebirth they as adults don't have a conversation that is about them and their relationship and not Cloud

While this is a very valid reason, it's a little bit unfair to hold it against them because Zack died before Aerith and Cloud even met each other and after that, pretty much every appearance of them was linked to 'helping' Cloud in a way or another. But you're right. Coming to think of it, Zerith wasn't treated very well after CC, and hopefully, we'll get them talking about themselves outside of the whole Cloud situation (he should be able to take care of his own problems for once and let these two just talk about something else, lol)

 

[eleamaya]

There is Not a Love Triangle in Final Fantasy VII

I know it's controversial, but let's address the misconception that Final Fantasy VII contains a love triangle.

www.siliconera.com

 

[shady]

Yeah, I think

Spoiler: Rebirth spoilers

there might be a bit of an overreaction or misunderstanding of that word on both sides from some. If I remember right the word weird is used on Tifa's date as well, she's saying it's weird finding themselves in the situation they are in, not that their date is weird, which would be a bad faith take

There are multiple interactions where Cloud says Aerith is "acting weird" especially in a specific scene late game, not that she herself is weird this is true -- as we know from TOTP though she hates being alluded to anything considered weird. This is the contrast between Zack and Cloud, when Aerith apologises for acting/being weird Zack just says being normal is overrated.

 

[shady]

For anyone thinking that the "Date" is what's going to cause all the controversy and such and how ballsy the devs were to do it -- the only thing I can say is you are in for an absolute whirlwind that you have no idea is about to hit you in regards to this LTD, and it only leads one way, the date should give you a clue which way that is, it isn't something that just happens out of the blue for fanservice either -- no matter what people try to say otherwise.

 

[Nal]

If you watch the date with Tifa when he says;

Spoiler: quote

"Touchy subject huh? She must still have feelings for Zack"

This is him working out why they haven't spoken to each other about it (of course they both lie about this)

Spoiler

1. He is okay saying this infront of Tifa because he's digging for more information about Zack and is basically asking her is this the reason why you didn't bring it up? She says it's a bit more complicated than that, it's obviously referencing they don't really want to approach the subject with Cloud because they know something weird is going on with Cloud/Zack, that's why they BOTH lie about it and not just one of them. He's not asking because he's digging for more information about Aerith's feelings

2. IF he is truly jealous and digging wanting to know where Aerith stands on Zack it would make more sense for him to to ask Aerith in this moment instead of Tifa if she still has feelings for Zack, the reason he only brings it up to Tifa and not Aerith is because in both scenarios he works out by himself that it's a touchy subject and because Cloud has enough TACT to not say these words infront of Aerith incase it upsets her, how is this not stupidly obvious?

3. The emotions on Cloud's face and Cody's line delivery of this line are about as neutral as you can possibly get, the camera doesn't even bother to show you the emotions running through Cloud's face because he basically doesn't have any, it's just a STATEMENT it isn't some anger and jealousy fueled comment, if you somehow get that from the line delivery and the fact the camera can't even be bothered to change to look at Cloud's face then it's inconsequential.

4. Let's contrast that with the extreme close up of Cloud's face as he says "Not one BIT" to Tifa, why does the camera do this? Because the intent this time IS to show you the emotions on Cloud's face because there is something to be emotional about, coupled with Cody's delivery and the emphasis on the word BIT, it's intent is to show the player how unwavering and steely his determination is to let Tifa know she is not getting ahead of herself and that he feels the same, because in the previous shot -- BODY LANGUAGE 101 -- you can see she is clammed up and folding in on herself and this is why it's important for the player to see Cloud taking the lead and showing Tifa that she can trust in him with her feelings.

Please gain some basic media literacy, go read some literature, go watch a film, go speak to real people in the real world, it's getting embarassing now.

You really just put that so perfectly into words while even using the use of film and camera. I might just save this paragraph to send if I ever see this take again.

 

[shady]

You really just put that so perfectly into words while even using the use of film and camera. I might just save this paragraph to send if I ever see this take again.

When you work in the film/tv industry specialising in Animation for nigh on a decade it's pretty easy to pick up this kind of stuff. I could do a breakdown of the entire date scene and it's film language, romantic tropes, etc etc

People do not realise how much meticulous work and craft goes into making each and every single scene in a game like this.

Multiple script versions and rewrites
Multiple storyboards and changes
Multiple voice line takes and mocap takes
Multiple versions of Character and Camera layout
Multiple versions of Animation takes until the most minute facial expression are correct to convey the right feelings and emotions
Multiple edits to get across what the Director is trying to convey in the scene
and on and on and on

People think they just slap words on a page and say okay lets make these characters kiss and that's it we got a scene, everything in these scenes is planned out to the most meticulous detail, whatever the characters do on these Dates, each and every bit of it is for a reason.

Another small note

Spoiler

For example, a simple one anybody can guess, what is a kiss referred to as in movies, or lets say you've nearly kissed the person you are interested in multiple times but have failed, but you finally manage to get that first kiss and you feel it.. what's it referred to? Sparks flying. What happens just as the kiss happens on the date? Oh that's right fireworks start going off behind them, what a coincidence.

 

[Nal]

When you work in the film/tv industry specialising in Animation for nigh on a decade it's pretty easy to pick up this kind of stuff. I could do a breakdown of the entire date scene and it's film language, romantic tropes, etc etc

People do not realise how much meticulous work and craft goes into making each and every single scene in a game like this.

Multiple script versions and rewrites
Multiple storyboards and changes
Multiple voice line takes and mocap takes
Multiple versions of Character and Camera layout
Multiple versions of Animation takes until the most minute facial expression are correct to convey the right feelings and emotions
Multiple edits to get across what the Director is trying to convey in the scene
and on and on and on

People think they just slap words on a page and say okay lets make these characters kiss and that's it we got a scene, everything in these scenes is planned out to the most meticulous detail, whatever the characters do on these Dates, each and every bit of it is for a reason.

Another small note

Spoiler

For example, a simple one anybody can guess, what is a kiss referred to as in movies, or lets say you've nearly kissed the person you are interested in multiple times but have failed, but you finally manage to get that first kiss and you feel it.. what's it referred to? Sparks flying. What happens just as the kiss happens on the date? Oh that's right fireworks start going off behind them, what a coincidence.

You should absolutely do that when the game is out
but yes, camera work and character animations take a lot of work and nothing isn't done without a reason. Its not
like they are filming on a set or anything with real people, every single animation and emotion on a character from the smallest of movements is thought out and planned.

Its why game design just sounds so stressful Honestly

 

[Maidenofwar]

Of course the influencers understand the game, they get to meet Hamaguchi and stuff. Hamaguchi has met some of them more than once and he knows what they like.

They wouldn't be getting genuinely excited for the products anymore they'd just be phoning it in and that in turn would be misleading for the audience or they wouldn't do it anymore and SE wouldn't have the marketing to hit all demographics.

 

[shady]

You should absolutely do that when the game is out
but yes, camera work and character animations take a lot of work and nothing isn't done without a reason. Its not
like they are filming on a set or anything with real people, every single animation and emotion on a character from the smallest of movements is thought out and planned.

Its why game design just sounds so stressful Honestly

I can't post pictures unfortunately but.. C&T Gondola Date moment

Spoiler

There's a moment in the date when Cloud is sat there next to Tifa and Tifa is looking outside the window, we see how excited she is and claiming "It's beautiful" as we get a nice camera pan across her face showing not only how beautiful she is but the sky around her as it's lit up by fireworks. Then we see the fireworks themselves in all their glory. Nothing else is said and we cut back to the two of them with Tifa still looking out the window, Cloud however after hearing the word 'Beautiful' decides to stare at Tifa.

Now how many times have you ever seen in a film when a woman calls out something as 'Beautiful' and instead of looking at what the woman is pointing out, the man instead stares at her and says something like "Yeah it is" and then the woman turns and catches what he's been looking at? It's been done to death at this point.

We add an extra layer to this because it's also a callback to that scene in the bar in Remake when Tifa makes Cloud a drink, he holds it up and looks at Tifa, saying 'Beautiful'. So we already know Cloud thinks Tifa is beautiful and this is reiterated again in this shot when he starts to stare at her. You see a small smile come upon Cloud's face as he see's her enjoying herself and he see's that reflect in her beautiful face. Tifa then turns to look at him and he's so enraputred that for a few seconds he doesn't even realise he's been caught and they both look away in mutual embarassment because they know exactly what's just happened.

Like come on if you've lived in the world a little bit this stuff is so easy to pick up!

 

[Maidenofwar]

For anyone thinking that the "Date" is what's going to cause all the controversy and such and how ballsy the devs were to do it -- the only thing I can say is you are in for an absolute whirlwind that you have no idea is about to hit you in regards to this LTD, and it only leads one way, the date should give you a clue which way that is, it isn't something that just happens out of the blue for fanservice either -- no matter what people try to say otherwise.

The way you are saying that is as if Cleriths should just cancel their preorders and not get the next game or anything either because there is nothing for them there.

 

[shady]

The way you are saying that is as if Cleriths should just cancel their preorders and not get the next game or anything either because there is nothing for them there.

I'm not saying that at all, of course there are Clerith moments in the game, whether you or anybody else interprets the interactions between Cloud and Aerith or Tifa as romantic is up to you and what the devs are trying to convey to you.

But anybody trying to convince anybody else or themselves that C&T is just some bits of fanservice here and there are in for a rude awakening is all i'm saying.

Besides, if all people care about is which girl Cloud gets with and they don't care about the rest of the game beyond that maybe they shouldn't be playing it anyway, because this isn't a dating simulator.

 

[Stiggie]

The way you are saying that is as if Cleriths should just cancel their preorders and not get the next game or anything either because there is nothing for them there.

Hopefully there is a good game and story there for them that does aerith justice in her own way, without it being a toned Down version of tifas story with cloud.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I love that they're going this route. It provides different characterizations for the characters. I honestly hate when characters get the exact same kind of outcomes. It's so unrealistic. Yes it's a fantasy game, but it's also a reflection of real life.

Ff15 has my favorite story/ending

Is that including the revelations included from the novel?

I don't want to wait another four years for

Spoiler: re-trilogy spoilers

Aerith and Zack to finally have a conversation that does not feature Cloud

Spoiler

Consider it a new version of the bechdel test

 

[GamerSkull]

Hopefully there is a good game and story there for them that does aerith justice in her own way, without it being a toned Down version of tifas story with cloud.

Spoiler

Hard to even imagine Aerith working later in the story.

Aerith: So you joined SOLDIER because you wanted someone to notice you? Who?

Cloud: Tifa.

Aerith: Oh. I see.

———

Aerith: So yeah, I wasn’t at Nibelheim so I’ll just stand here while you figure it out on your own.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Thanks for the clarification.

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if

Spoiler: Rebirth spoilers

they had made Tifa the default princess and sing a love song and get the lovers brooch instead

 

[shady]

Thanks for the clarification.

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if

Spoiler: Rebirth spoilers

they had made Tifa the default princess and sing a love song and get the lovers brooch instead

Are you talking about the flower pin? There's more to it that you will see when you play the game

Spoiler

Cloud doesn't give it to her, instead she takes it from the Shopkeepers hands when he tried to force Cloud to take it

 

[Hix]

Spoiler

Hard to even imagine Aerith working later in the story.

Aerith: So you joined SOLDIER because you wanted someone to notice you? Who?

Cloud: Tifa.

Aerith: Oh. I see.

———

Aerith: So yeah, I wasn’t at Nibelheim so I’ll just stand here while you figure it out on your own.

Narratively, she exits the game/story at just the right time to avoid awkward moments like this, or just being side-lined in general. Like straight away we've moved on to Cloud's mental state, and Sephiroth barraging it, and that takes up a lot if not most of the focus thereafter. People who believe they want Aerith to somehow not die never actually consider this.

On that note, it's always been quite fascinating to me how Cloud's aforementioned teetering breakdown never actually occurs until Tifa's faith in him wavers. His last line before the dam breaks springs to mind;

I am the one you grew up with. I’m Cloud of Nibelheim. No matter how much I lose faith in myself, that is the truth. That’s why you shouldn’t be so scared. No matter what anyone else says to me, it’s your attitude that counts…

This simply doesn't work with Aerith, who met him first only a few weeks prior. Only Tifa occupies this space in his heart and only Tifa can piece together the broken fragments of his mind.

Thanks for the clarification.

I think a lot of this could have been avoided if

Spoiler: Rebirth spoilers

they had made Tifa the default princess and sing a love song and get the lovers brooch instead

Look, I don't want to be rude, but if one of the characters literally dying doesn't avoid the LTD discourse then nothing will.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Narratively, she exits the game/story at just the right time to avoid awkward moments like this, or just being side-lined in general. Like straight away we've moved on to Cloud's mental state, and Sephiroth barraging it, and that takes up a lot if not most of the focus thereafter. People who believe they want Aerith to somehow not die never actually consider this.

On that note, it's always been quite fascinating to me how Cloud's aforementioned teetering breakdown never actually occurs until Tifa's faith in him wavers. His last line before the dam breaks springs to mind;



This simply doesn't work with Aerith, who met him first only a few weeks prior. Only Tifa occupies this space in his heart and only Tifa can piece together the broken fragments of his mind.



Look, I don't want to be rude, but if one of the characters literally dying doesn't avoid the LTD discourse then nothing will.

I'd argue the only reason the LTD is the way it is is because one person died. Like, had Aerith not died and everything else happened as it did in the OG, it would be very obvious Aerith was stepping back and letting Cloud and Tifa truly reconnect.

 

[Maidenofwar]

What is dead in FFVII's world anyway?

 

[Empyrea]

Long time lurker here! Hi!

About the LTD... Well, to preface, I'm a hobby writer, and one time, I wrote a short story about 2 characters I'm using in a Mass Effect roleplay. I showed that to my friend who wasn't a participant and somehow, that ended with her telling me she ships them.

The funny thing is that what I intended to write were two people bonding over their...inferiority complex and how they could both benefit accepting (the guy) and giving (the gal) help from each other. I did do a get to know session, but I did for exposition, mostly. Chronologically, this is the second time they talked, and the first time they did so with just the two of them.

Now if she had asked me to make them canon? I wouldn't. I wouldn't have stop her from shipping them, but I also wouldn't want to compromise what I had planned for the story to appease her, either. It is flattering to know that I wrote a pair that had chemistry for someone, though xP

All this to say, people just want to ship what they want to ship sometimes.

 

[Legend45]

Guys the

Spoiler

GONGAGA

scene has dropped in the new trailer?

Don't know if you can post it tho

 

[Hix]

I'd argue the only reason the LTD is the way it is is because one person died. Like, had Aerith not died and everything else happened as it did in the OG, it would be very obvious Aerith was stepping back and letting Cloud and Tifa truly reconnect.

I fail to see the difference, really, between Aerith stepping back and Aerith not being alive anymore. In either case, Aerith isn't in the picture. Perhaps you might argue that one is willing and the other less so, but the end result is the same.

Anyway, my main point was that no matter how compelling and obvious the case for Cloud x Tifa, there will always be some who simply don't want to believe and find ways to ignore it. Indeed, one of my favourite articles on this site back in the day was your own, now 14 years old, declaring the LTD officially over. How little we knew

 

[Rose Alive]

All this to say, people just want to ship what they want to ship sometimes.

There's nothing wrong with shipping characters you like together.

The issue is that people take their personal headcanons and present them as fact when the characters and the story don't support those headcanons.

It looks like Rebirth is going to make it harder to play the "this is my interpretation" angle as well. But when people already have their mind made up, they will see what they want to see no matter what is being shown to them.