Cloud says that next time Aerith should pick a harder puzzle. Aerith thinks Cloud means Cloud wants to go on more dates. Cloud says "because we're friends". Aerith is a bit dissappointed, because she was expecting something more....well, romantic. She says "Now I know where we stand", and goes on to talk about the difference between liking someone and really liking somone...Which Cloud doesnt even try process. This isnt a rejection per se, but it shows us how Cloud views their entire date as something friends would do.
In a way, this also reflects Cloud's attttude during the Gold Saucer date where he says "But I didnt do anything" when Aerith thanks him.
- agreed and this is pararell on Tifa's date when she said
"Or am I getting ahead of myself again?"
"Again?" - Cloud
"yeah again.."
"Not one bit"- ask her hand hugs her and kisses her.
================
optional or not when Tifa expresses doubts Cloud will always clear himself up to her. I also agree that Cloud may not be able to call it rejected as his state of mind is ramble right now. But he did express his geniune feelings that - Another date with Aerith would mean a friendly one as they are Nakama/comrades/friends.
I feel like she just wanted to have some quality time with Cloud before things go down, and she did that by replicating one of her most fond memories, only to realize at the end where hers and Cloud's feelings stand. I believe she really just wanted some closure before surrendering to her ultimate fate. It makes her very human imo.
a closure she needed so she can move on next in Lifestream and she faces her death.
a bit make sense to me on why that 'date' is a bit ominous ( not just because of impending death) but the entire scenario is a bit... well weird ( sorry Aerith
- still in part 3 a tinsy tiny bit of me wanted her to reunite her with Zack - i mean they both deserve it?? agreed
I read on twitter/X that if this happens you get CloudxCid/Cait/Vincent date Not sure if it's true, but if it is you in for a ride because their date is hilarius
Just want to compliment Cody, Britt and Brianna for doing so well with these characters in these particular scenes. For me, they are now the quintessential ENG VAs for these characters. I feel they’ve done far better than even Remake with embodying these iconic characters.
But not Caleb Pierce. Rick Gomez will always be the better Zack. (Although, I don’t hate Caleb Pierce as Zack now as much as I used to).
Pretty much this! Cloud is clueless as ever there. This isn't him confessing or friendzoning Aerith at all, but rather him being completely oblivious to what Aerith was trying to do there and acting/responding to her flirtatious nature like he always did. But the point is exactly this: he is seeing her as he always did i.e. as a friend. Even so, Aerith still tells him (and the players) her feelings because she, too, has come to her own conclusion. She's finally able to get some closure about this.
One thing to put into perspective when thinking about Cloud's reaction to things ... and this is something that has been stated by the developer is Cloud is missing 5 years. So in his actions, he is still 16? 15? sorry don't know the correct age. So he has at times a mentality of a 16 year old. So when I saw in a play through that he went for it with Tifa, seemed to me uncharacteristic. But I haven't played it through yet where I'm romancing Tifa. I'm going to romance Aerith first and one my second playthrough do Tifa. It's going to be interesting to see the difference in development in his character.
To be fair, citing his mind as only that of a 16-year might work for Real!Cloud but I don’t think it applies to Soldier!Cloud.
But honestly, I don’t think this has anything to do with how mentally mature he is, rather that he’s just oblivious in general or just doesn’t have strong social skills or awareness (which can still be common among people in their 20s).
16 year old Cloud from Crisis Core is arguably a bigger simp for Tifa than Rebirth's Cloud. He just doesnt have the confidence and swag to go for a kiss like Rebirth's Cloud.
16 year old Cloud from Crisis Core is arguably a bigger simp for Tifa than Rebirth's Cloud. He just doesnt have the confidence and swag to go for a kiss like Rebirth's Cloud.
Cloud has always been a Tifa simp. It’s why he wanted to be a SOLDIER in the first place. Soldier Cloud does not remember that though, and is in his own personal fantasy of what it means to be tough guy.
I see his interactions with Tifa in Rebirth as the latter with pieces of the former bubbling to the surface.
One thing to put into perspective when thinking about Cloud's reaction to things ... and this is something that has been stated by the developer is Cloud is missing 5 years. So in his actions, he is still 16? 15? sorry don't know the correct age. So he has at times a mentality of a 16 year old. So when I saw in a play through that he went for it with Tifa, seemed to me uncharacteristic. But I haven't played it through yet where I'm romancing Tifa. I'm going to romance Aerith first and one my second playthrough do Tifa. It's going to be interesting to see the difference in development in his character.
Tbh, this is also something that has changed with Remake/Rebirth. OG Cloud!Soldier persona was somewhat more collected and cold, keeping more his distance. Probably, much of this was due to technological constraints at that time. Remake's Soldier!Cloud is much more nuanced. He's cold yet caring, stoic yet goofy. The more he interacts with Tifa, Aerith, and the others, the more I see Cloud's true personality blending with this persona he created here and there. The GS dates are the best example of this: he listens to Nanaki, plays like a big brother with Yuffie, comforts Aerith, and kisses Tifa.
In the end, I guess it's just not 1997 anymore when games were heavily conducted by dialogues only, so having Cloud actually react to things was a necessary change.
So you got Red?? It's my favourite date! It's so cute! His change of tone/speech caught me by surprise, too!! It's so nice to see him in this light, he's supposed to be 15/16 years old after all
Speaking of liking and “liking”, has anyone brought up that Aerith’s line to Cloud in the church scene contrasts this excerpt from Tifa chapter on Trace of Two Pasts?
She'd discovered that Cloud-the quiet neighbor who had always seemed as unreachable as the stars--was just a normal boy like any other. She'd come to understand that she did like him. And it was that special kind of "like" the one that ties up your heart, making you yearn to be with that person for the rest of your days.
Yeah, Nojima describes what kind of "like" (which is "suki" in Japanese) that is romantic (which is "koi" in Japanese).
The same sentiment of "yearn to be with that person for the rest of your days" can also be used to describe what kind of feelings Aerith have for Zack when she confessed "I'd like to spend more time with you." (in JP it's "I wanna be together with you more often"). In FFVII 10th Ultimania CC story playback, it says:
When Zack is called for duty, Aerith writes down 23 tiny wishes on a piece of paper and gives it to him.
The note was filled with her earnest desire to be together with Zack.
So, I wonder what makes Aerith say to Cloud that her liking is different "liking" since she wrote No Promises to Keep song in Gold Saucer that she also performed on stage with lyrics: "take my hand so we can be together ever more." This song is her feelings for Cloud, right? And the instrumental BGM is being played during their dreamlike date in Sector 5 slum.
Could it be... she thinks of her feelings for Cloud of wanting to be together ever more with him, but it turns out the date make her realize it's not like what she thought of?
In fact the more I really think about it, he’s absolutely on the money here with that last line.
I believe he’s referring to Cloud and Aerith in that last line, because there is a fundamental difference in the relationships Cloud has with Tifa and with Aerith, both of which are incredibly important for the story development.
Initially I think a lot of us all thought that given which portions of the story Rebirth covers from the original, a lot of the focus would be on Cloud and Aerith’s relationship, as at this point in the story their’s is very important. So to see Tifa also get greatly expanded screen time and both story and character development, including with her relationship with Cloud was honestly surprising, given all we know is yet to happen in Part 3 and the importance Cloud and Tifa’s past and relationship plays there.
For the importance of Rebirth’s story development, especially in the third act, naturally Cloud and Aerith’s relationship takes centre stage. This is why I think that Aerith always sings in the Loveless play. It’s to firmly establish the emotional beats of her connections to two characters (my interpretation is NPTK does in part also speak to her feelings for Zack) and where her story ends up.
If they were to, using Cody’s words here, sexualise Cloud and Aerith’s relationship, it would for sure ruin the story development. It wouldn’t make sense narratively or be in keeping with the characterisations of all involved, both from the original and in the Remake trilogy.
This all isn’t to say that Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is just sexualised and there’s nothing more going on emotionally, but you can’t deny there is SO much physical chemistry and intimacy on display between Cloud and Tifa that started in Remake and has carried through to Rebirth.
It would be very surprising if all of what they’ve done in regards to developing Cloud and Tifa’s story doesn’t pay off emotionally (the Lifestream sequence) and physically (Under the Highwind). They’ve been foreshadowing very strongly in this respect.
Could it be... she thinks her feelings for Cloud of wanting to be together ever more with him, but it turns out the date make her realize it's not like that?
maybe the rebirth ultimania will have an answer? honestly Aerith is really hard to read~ she's a character a bit easier to love yet harder to appeciate ( just for me personally )
So you got Red?? It's my favourite date! It's so cute! His change of tone/speech caught me by surprise, too!! It's so nice to see him in this light, he's supposed to be 15/16 years old after all
I believe he’s referring to Cloud and Aerith in that last line, because there is a fundamental difference in the relationships Cloud has with Tifa and with Aerith, both of which are incredibly important for the story development.
Hmm? Have you guys already brought up the reunion flower brooch that aerith wanted cloud to give to her by her subconscious (merchant)? She even asks for it herself? And cloud who knows she knows what it means is completely confused and kind of offended. Saying "are you serious?" With a sigh. Then she hold his hand like I would assume what lovers do in FF world because the interlocking doesn't seem to be taken like that in their world. Could have also learned it from madam m the masseur, cloud is clueless but if he really wanted to he could have hugged her tighty instead but he did not (like he did with tifa), he settled for something he considered comforting but neutral. Tbh, the whole thing could mean something like, it looks romantic but it's not actually, because in our world interlocking hands is a romantic gesture.
So when she held his hand like that, which I think she's actually trying to recreate zack here but can't get it from cloud because he too doesn't consent to this because he's in love with tifa, not her. It just makes cloud go along with her because he thinks she's acting really weird. He's worried, he's being a friend.
That by itself already shows you that seeing aerith as a romantic option has not entered his mind at all. To see it is to entertain it, and to ponder it. But it really looks like he gets caught of guard with her a lot because he treats her as a friend, but she's flirting with him and wanting more. Hence why her confession, because ngl that is a confession one way or around. Makes cloud only uncomfortable.
If you take tifa's date in mind, you'll know cloud isn't dense at all. And doesn't want to entertain aerith because he's setting up a boundary that why he changed the subject instead. He actually did the same during her gsd, when she told him that she wants to find the real him. He brought up tifa to change the subject. The opposite goes for tifa, whom he only brought up aerith because he got caught looking at her. He even slides closer to tifa before asking lol. He isn't as oblivious as everyone thinks. It's just that he's pov isn't the same as everyone else's including the audience. When he was with aerith and yuffie, the way he spoke of jessie could be seen in a different light. We only saw her flirting with cloud, yet he looked fondly at her and said that he's still waiting for that pizza. He even gazes a bit more as you walk. If that was any other girl, people would think that's a confirmation of a possibility. Much like how others think a lot to do with aerith is the same. Yet why show us that? Only to confuse us? Because it's not. It's meant to show us that cloud would still be grateful and still think of them as comrades because there is nothing that he doesn't cherish. Emphasize on that. Because this is his character development from a kid who couldn't even get in tifa's circle of friends because he was too immature and proud. This is an opportunity given to him by Tifa, the very moment she saved him that day. New people he can meet and befriend with. But I still believe that the only one he loves is Tifa, otherwise what's the point of nojima emphasizing yet again his main motivation in life (2k hero)? Their new character chart description also only highlights tifa to have a heart in her new description. Showing that cloud specifically cares for her romantically, while aerith's is left as being there for planet earth.
Tbh, there's only negatives from what I see if they pursue a romance for c/a canon or even just the idea it was ever there. CT would not have a satisfying conclusion no matter how you put it. I've read enough harems go know when a super loyal girl gets ntr'd one way or another. It's really fcked up. Plus this is tifa, a very well known and beloved female character. Even her popularity is only ever increasing right now. Also, maybe not a big deal overseas, in japan it seems it's not very wise to give spirit to sakurai's infidelity scandal. That is not how you write a FF character that represents your franchise. The same goes for ZA. Dude is crying and died to get back to her, only go be settled as second best is also fcked up. I already didn't like what happened with aerith and tifa, this whole things isn't going to help.
Anyway.. I don't think I will engage in this debate anymore and neither to this site. But I will say some things. Do take all the optional things for all characters. Not just those two. See how cloud reacts, what kind of person is he? During the rosa play, the way he twirls the three girls are all different. And I assume cloud is the type to be aggressive as a lover, at least this is what he wants to, heck we even get him being called a perv by yuffie for fantasizing tifa being cloned. Maybe this is the real him and jenova is just his liquid courage. But....
Does he do the same for aerith?
1) No, her worst dress indicates something else. Much like her red dress is edited very interestingly yo show an illusion (sigh.. too tired to explain, just take all options into account and see the real context). Same goes for her performance, it's not really her, it's technology.
2) doesn't hug her tight in her dream. That's why she can get out of it very easily. And that's why it's also easy for him to hug her back because unlike tifa whom he needs courage, he only thinks of aerith in a platonic light.
3) also doesn't kiss her. Because why? The thought never entered his mind.
4) did not hug her in her gsd to comfort her, instead he took her arms away skin to skin so what he would do is that she comes in contact with his gloves instead. Something he can settle with. As he comforts her as she misses Zack. Cloud knows that.
5) man, I'm too tired. To write all of them down. But there's just so much counterpoints that tell me at least that he doesn't think of her that way at all. It is YOU the player who thinks so. Not without the fault of SE anyway. Like that thing at the end where she leans on way too closely to his face and he laughs. It's really weird. Doesn't help sena gave them a "promise" line when in jp it doesn't exist at all. That's only for CT and ZA. But even that scene has a counterpoint. During CT's almost kiss in gongaga, cloud actually goes forward with his eyes looking down to her lips. The one with aerith, has cloud lean a bit back due to the shock and then laugh. He never looks at her lips, no, not at all. Neither does he ever want to touch her without any reason to (like to comfort), unlike with how touchy he is with Tifa.
Like does cloud treat aerith differently compared to his other friends? Or do you think he wouldn't do the same for anybody dying in his party who was told he was supposed to protect? Because to fail that, is to fail being a hero, and therefore cannot be special to tifa (2k hero).
Like go look at them. See the difference. See how he reacts to everyone. Cloud loves his friends very much but it's obvious he treats the woman he loves differently. I'm sure aerith spending too much time (all those "dates") and even be given like at least 4 farewells. Should at least spark interest from cloud by then, but just like jessie who's also very forward. He doesn't actually waver now does he? Add to that fact that Toriyama says real cloud shows up only when he is with Tifa.
Cloud strife is a character whose actions speak louder than words and this goes well for Tifa's iconic line in the HW.
There will be no world where all three become canon pairings because nojima says they go back to where they belong. CT and ZA. In advent children. This theory about cloud saving aerith is also pointless because not only will that fail, it is also a huge waste of storyline for part 3. And that should be bigger than Rebirth's portion. Because also, why else would he ask for forgiveness in ACC if he succeeded. In any case, ACC is heavily misinterpreted as well but I'm too tired to talk about that. All I can say is, adding an element that c/ a is romantic no matter how small, does nothing but muddy up the coherency of the story.
Sigh, SE even goes out of their way to post a picture about friends supporting friends with c/ a highfive (familiar right? Hand related platonic stuff). The framing of her death is very close with sonon and melphie, two siblings. That pose they do at the end is an AC reference , that also references Zack's position. With a handhold, that is done platonic in her gsd (as ive mentioned before).
The only thing I hate about SE is that they tell us that they are friends but give us shots that look like baits. It's simple really, just as how they're chill with SENA being unprofessional. They want to have their cake and eat it too. That's it. But all it does is make me feel uncomfortable with that dynamic and make those two look like assholes. Especially to those who won't look too much further with the details like the stuff I just shared.
Anyway, this is a long post. Couldn't say everything. I'm only referring to everything in the compilation and game. I'm not referring to real life experiences. Just trying to observe what I see. Like wow, at least fullmetal panic's author is concerned for their work as well as Macross franchise (retcon movies).... can't say about SE. Sigh..
I didn't recheck this. So if my grammar etc is weird sorry. I'm just frustrated because I can taste a storm brewing and I hate that a lot. But I don't want to panic myself for years till part 3 arrives. All I know is that whatever that is given to us. Is given to us to see that he is not in love in any way with aerith. She is the female counterpart of Zack in his story. That's all I'm saying. So anybody who doesn't agree with that you do you. I know of cody's quote, it could mean very very many things and not just what you guys have interpreted it to be.
To read and interpret things as romantic, if that makes the scenes and story of Cloud and Aerith in Rebirth meaningful to you, then that’s something nobody should have the right to dispel for you. Regardless of whether you do or don’t, there story is beautiful, it’s nuanced, and is very important.
You have to feel something for Aerith, so when she goes, her absence is felt.
But! I can already tell the conversations that are going to be had between now and Part 3 are potentially going to be more fraught than they were waiting between Remake and Rebirth.
Because while interpreting the story as it now exists in Rebirth is one thing, trying to convince yourself and others that Rebirth confirms that Part 3 is going to have Aerith be brought back and together with Cloud is wilfully wanting the story to do the biggest disservice to Cloud himself, but especially to Tifa and Zack. Not to mention the story and themes.
There is no way Cloud and Aerith being together as is so strongly campaigned for by some, ends with Tifa and Zack’s storylines being concluded. Zack’s more than Tifa’s really, because acknowledging that in the five years where he wasn’t there Aerith was able to develop feelings for someone else, even that someone else being Cloud, that’s all one fine and doesn’t do anything to fail Zack or even Aerith as characters, but there is no way Zack’s story ends with him either dying again, or seeing Cloud and Aerith walk off into the sunset together. He wouldn’t accept death again, when he died in the first place trying to get back to Aerith. And it’s not him letting Cloud being his living legacy as that line and the motivation behind it (and how Cloud himself acts on it) has nothing to do with Aerith.
Honestly it would just be so bad to Zack, it would ruin and make his story and in the worse possible way, and take all the impact and sorrow that was felt from his original last stand. And sadly it would just serve to make Aerith look like an awful person, for choosing to be with Cloud when Zack (either alive, or in the Lifestream) did all he did and more trying to get back to her, and then taking care of her when he found her.
So to want Cloud and Aerith as endgame, is to want all of the above for the story.
Interpret things how you want, but don’t actively seek for the grander story to be completely derailed for your ship.
Because at the end of the day, Cloud and Tifa being together at the end doesn’t have any of the sorts of character and story problems that Cloud and Aerith being together would have, and that isn’t open to interpretation. That’s the story of Final Fantasy VII, and despite Remake and Rebirth’s endings exploring new ideas and concepts, they all end at the same point they did in the original. Exactly the same.
In Remake, like in the original, Cloud and the party resolve to leave Midgar and pursue Sephiroth. And in Rebirth, Cloud and the party resolve to continue their pursuit of Sephiroth as he heads north, and they are seeing having left the Forgotten Capital to do just that.
Yes, I believe Part 3’s ending will be significantly different given it has to conclude the story, but also all the new narrative threads they’ve introduced. But I believe the characters will have the same endings they did in the original, just hopefully more fleshed out.
Zack is here now for one, so the story isn’t going to just end with Cloud remembering who he is and we get the flashback to his last stand. I do believe Zack will die again in the end, because I believe his story does and should end in the Lifestream, and yes with Aerith. Because if Advent Children is still where we are leading to, then Aerith and Zack being in the Lifestream together is essential for that to take place, and for Cloud’s characterisation to be what it is in that film. If either Aerith or Zack are left alive at Part 3’s end, what is there for him to resolve guilt wise?
Really, them saying repeatedly about Advent Children linking up to the Remake trilogy, and then even having screenings of the film before Rebirth, should have been the biggest indication of the fact (that they also have repeatedly said) that the trilogy will not veer off course in a way that doesn’t see us where we end up in Advent Children.
And to accept that as fact, you accept that any reunion of sorts between Cloud and Aerith will be one of a similar kind to how it was presented in Advent Children
Despite ALL of what I’ve just said, the fact in Rebirth, we get like FOUR farewells between Cloud and Aerith, including one very heavily inspired by Advent Children, makes me question just how much Aerith is going to be in Part 3, even in a spiritual capacity.
Some of it they could have saved for Part 3, because it was honestly kind of disruptive to have Cloud and Aerith go back and forth between parting just for Aerith to pop back again and them go through the whole song and dance again like another five times.
Like she Lifestream fades away, then she’s back and then doesn’t fade away, but she says goodbye at the end, it didn’t have very good pacing.
This more than her death and the scene itself minimised a lot of the impact for me. I get a lot of the why, as it’s Cloud’s point of view and it’s in keeping with how traumatic Zack’s death was for him. So it serves Cloud’s character at a disservice to Aerith unfortunately, given this was her most important scene.
For me, in any fandom I only do serious shipping for canon pair or semi canon like when one character is genuinely feeling for another character. Well for me there is difference between serious shipping and not anyway.
So, I wonder what makes Aerith say to Cloud that her liking is different "liking" since she wrote No Promises to Keep song in Gold Saucer that she also performed on stage with lyrics: "take my hand so we can be together ever more." This song is her feelings for Cloud, right? And the instrumental BGM is being played during their dreamlike date in Sector 5 slum.
I always find these songs sooo hard to interpret and connect with the actual story People extensively discussed "Hollow" in the past, debating whether it was about Zack, Aerith, or Cloud losing himself, only for it to be connected to Zack in Rebirth (whihc, imo, doesn't disprove the notion that the song can be about all that I mentioned above or about loss in general).
The same applies to NPTK. If I analyzed the lyrics alone, with no knowledge of where it plays in the game, I would never connect it to Cloud, as the church is, in reality, Zack and Aerith's spot, and the person she made a promise to meet up with again was, well, Zack too. However, the song is (written and) played in the GS and Sector 5 date, so it's a fair interpretation that it also connects to Cloud. Once again, It's very unclear to me if we should take the song in as per lyrics (Zack), where it plays (Cloud), or see it more as a homage to both of them?
Anyways, I find it super hard to understand these songs, so usually turn my brain off when it comes to analysing it, lol
Not sure if it's true, but if it is you in for a ride because their date is hilarius
he’s such a kid i love it lol. Never pictured him in this light haha. I also loved Barrets as well.
