SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[JaeKony]

About that ...

Oh @Maidenofwar did you ever figure out why everyone was talking about a “ribbon” in Cloud and Aerith’s final date?

Isn’t it because people were saying that their outing is a mirror of her date with Zack in Crisis Core? And so, just like how Zack gave her a ribbon, she wants Cloud to give her something which ended up being the pin.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I’ll be honest, Zack’s return throws a huge wrench into Clerith… despite what Marlene says.

From an out of game, meta perspective, bringing Zack back and making it obvious how much he wants to reunite with Aerith is going to have a payoff. The writers would not go through this trouble only to make his fans be disappointed.

It would be like doing a Final Fantasy X-3 game but not having Tidus and Yuna interact at all.

It’s one thing for Zack to, true to his character, be pretty chill upon discovering that Aerith developed feelings for Cloud because of his absence, it’s another thing completely for Zack to be brought back only to give Cloud and Aerith his blessing and for him to just, I dunno, die again? Given that the devs have kind of hinted that they’ve rearranged story elements but are still thinking of following through with them. To that end, Aerith and Zack are surely going to have whatever reunion scene they have be in the Lifestream, or a similar context.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Agreed. Like I wrote,
I really hope the Cloud and Aerith church scene serves as a bookend to their relationship since it satiates both Zerith/Clerith shippers. If Zack and Aerith have a romantic reunion in Part 3, people who favor Cloud and Aerith can argue that they could have fallen in love if they had more time while Zack and Aerith shippers can say that Aerith could never replace Zack with Cloud since her “confession” to Cloud, even with MAX Affection, is her telling him that she’s confused about her feelings.

After watching both the LA and HA for their church scene, I think this is the sort of resolution to Cloud and Aerith’s relationship as a whole.

They never got that in the original, so I think here the devs have given Cloud and Aerith their equivalent Under the Highwind scene, with different versions for LA or HA.

Much as the Under the Highwind was the climax of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship, I think the date and church scene is the same for Cloud and Aerith’s.

Obviously both pairings will have scenes together again after their respective resolutions, but both serve as a neat way of tying things up, and I like that Aerith had this resolution.

 

[JaeKony]

After watching both the LA and HA for their church scene, I think this is the sort of resolution to Cloud and Aerith’s relationship as a whole.

They never got that in the original, so I think here the devs have given Cloud and Aerith their equivalent Under the Highwind scene, with different versions for LA or HA.

Much as the Under the Highwind was the climax of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship, I think the date and church scene is the same for Cloud and Aerith’s.

Obviously both pairings will have scenes together again after their respective resolutions, but both serve as a neat way of tying things up, and I like that Aerith had this resolution.

I think that’s a good way to put it. I do think that Aerith will play a role in some large way in Part 3, but that will be predominantly showcased in the other world/with Zack. Her role as a party member we control alongside the other OG characters has definitely ended. We might get scenes of her “spirit” interacting with them but that remains to be seen.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I think from my PoV Cloud wanted to take the comb for Aerith and got a bit salty when the merchant wouldn't give him the thing he picked xD Just my interpretation of course. In context I've thought maybe both sides were taking that small part too seriously and it was meant to be more lighthearted. Perhaps Ultimania will put a light upon if there is meant to be more relevance to the pin instead of Aerith being like ooh shiny I wants.

I admit I previously thought it would be more of a big thing but after some thought and trying to be more objective these are my current thoughts.

 

[Suffi]

Agreed. Like I wrote,
I really hope the Cloud and Aerith church scene serves as a bookend to their relationship since it satiates both Zerith/Clerith shippers. If Zack and Aerith have a romantic reunion in Part 3, people who favor Cloud and Aerith can argue that they could have fallen in love if they had more time while Zack and Aerith shippers can say that Aerith could never replace Zack with Cloud since her “confession” to Cloud, even with MAX Affection, is her telling him that she’s confused about her feelings.

I was really confused about the confession at the church scene. One reason I keep popping in here is to see other people’s interpretations of it. As much as I am a fan of cloud and Aerith due to my original play through, it does seem that over time and reworking the script the writers are pushing for end game of cloud and tifa and Zack and Aerith. Which is fine and makes sense. Well kinda since Zack and Aerith are dead and I thought the lifestream absorbs people back to the planet.

But yes. It does seem even with that statement at the church, to me, it kind of seems it really doesn’t 100% answer things. It seemed open ended.

I don’t know if Nourma’s views has changed since 2005. But Noumra’s preference for each viewer forming their own literary interpretation.

 

[GamerSkull]

About that ...

If they did a X-3, they would of course they would interact, why wouldn’t they…

And if you’re referring to their apparent break-up in Will, then that’s just there to set up tension that the game would eventually resolve. Just like On the Way to Smile sets up plot points that are resolved in ACC.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I

I think from my PoV Cloud wanted to take the comb for Aerith and got a bit salty when the merchant wouldn't give him the thing he picked xD Just my interpretation of course. In context I've thought maybe both sides were taking that small part too seriously and it was meant to be more lighthearted. Perhaps Ultimania will put a light upon if there is meant to be more relevance to the pin instead of Aerith being like ooh shiny I wants.

I admit I previously thought it would be more of a big thing but after some thought and trying to be more objective these are my current thoughts.

I read a theory that the Aerith in this sequence isn’t the Rebirth Aerith we’ve been travelling alongside the entire game, but Aerith from the original game, which is why she acts “weird” or isn’t acting like herself, as to Cloud she’s acting in a way that isn’t how she’s been before.

Just a theory, but an interesting one, given when Cloud wakes up in the Sleeping Forest the Aerith here seems to be Rebirth Aerith, hair and everything not wearing the pin etc. we don’t actually see that Aerith again

Honestly I too am needing the Ultimania’s to clear a hell of a lot of this up, because while it’s fun having theories, there is so much that isn’t clear and too vague.

 

[Suffi]

Perhaps Ultimania will put a light upon if there is meant to be more relevance to the pin instead of Aerith being like ooh shiny I wants.

I wanted to point this out because I have noticed this response a couple of time in different areas. That people have to wait until a book comes out to explain a scene or a character’s motive. This just really bothers me that they couldn’t get it across in the scene. I think some of the scenario designers should start listening to Roger Deakins podcast about film making. Or rewatch a bunch of Akira Kurosawa film. Or Anthony Hopkin facial expressions on how he delivers an emotion without words.

 

[billy22]

I’ll be honest, Zack’s return throws a huge wrench into Clerith… despite what Marlene says.

From an out of game, meta perspective, bringing Zack back and making it obvious how much he wants to reunite with Aerith is going to have a payoff. The writers would not go through this trouble only to make his fans be disappointed.

It would be like doing a Final Fantasy X-3 game but not having Tidus and Yuna interact at all.

Good point. Especially considering Zack does not get to interact with a (conscious) Aerith at all in this game. We will surely get some of that in part 3. I just hope there's a good payoff for it. Aerith hints at still liking him in Gongaga, hopefully that goes somewhere and isn't just 'ship bait.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Note to self 1- Don't tease Tiduna fans

Note to self 2- Don't tick Nojima off

 

[Rose Alive]

I was really confused about the confession at the church scene. One reason I keep popping in here is to see other people’s interpretations of it. As much as I am a fan of cloud and Aerith due to my original play through, it does seem that over time and reworking the script the writers are pushing for end game of cloud and tifa and Zack and Aerith. Which is fine and makes sense. Well kinda since Zack and Aerith are dead and I thought the lifestream absorbs people back to the planet.

But yes. It does seem even with that statement at the church, to me, it kind of seems it really doesn’t 100% answer things. It seemed open ended.

I don’t know if Nourma’s views has changed since 2005. But Noumra’s preference for each viewer forming their own literary interpretation.

Spoiler

I haven't seen the scene yet---I can only go on what the leaks and what people here have said. So perhaps my thoughts on this will change once I play the game (hurry up, mailman!)

So you have Aerith seeing this event, and others, in a romantic light. But by Cloud's responses, he does not. Now we know Cloud isn't oblivious to romantic tension or other people's feelings per Tifa's date. With context, it's clear he doesn't see Aerith this way. Now this doesn't mean he doesn't care for her, of course he does. Just not romantic feelings.

Now Aerith is a bit trickier. She seems like she's unsure whether she likes Cloud romantically or not. But the fact that she's having to question it seems to lean towards no. But the love triangle can be concluded here, because if Cloud is not returning her maybe-romantic feelings, he certainly won't further on after the Lifestream sequence---it wouldn't make any sense. Throw Zack into the story, and then you really see where the writers are taking you.

This doesn't mean people will stop shipping Cloud and Aerith. No matter what is shown, if it's their preferred ship, that's what they see. I think nolstalgia plays a heavy role in this as well. If they've loved Cloud and Aerith as a pairing since their early years, no matter what is shown to them, why stop now if they enjoy the pairing? The only time this personally bothers me is if they insist their headcanon is correct when it's clear that Cloud adores Tifa and loves the life he builds with her.

But one thing I will say, at least from my experience, it's rare for a love triangle to truly be ambiguous. Not saying they don't exist, but most love triangles have either an obvious pairing where someone is thrown in for dramatic purposes (ex: Twilight, the Witcher) Or you have the ones with the more subtle hints, but the hints are there as to what the endgame will be/where the hearts of the characters truly lie.

I truly don't think it's meant to be open-ended, although some will choose to view it that way.

 

[GamerSkull]

Note to self 1- Don't tease Tiduna fans

Note to self 2- Don't tick Nojima off

lol it’s not like I’m mad or anything.

It’s just that I didn’t particularly understand your reply.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Good point. Especially considering Zack does not get to interact with a (conscious) Aerith at all in this game. We will surely get some of that in part 3. I just hope there's a good payoff for it. Aerith hints at still liking him in Gongaga, hopefully that goes somewhere and isn't just 'ship bait.

The developers have acknowledged multiple times they are aware of how popular a character Zack is.

They wouldn’t bring him back for just fan service, nor to do a disservice to him in the story.

The whole ship bait thing I can’t confidently answer on, as while there isn’t anything per se to suggest that they’ve baited Aerith and Zack fans yet as there’s still a third game left to explore, you could argue that certain shots they chose to highlight in one of the trailers was baiting Cloud and Aerith fans into thinking more might have happened for them in the game.

 

[Empyrea]

But one thing I will say, at least from my experience, it's rare for a love triangle to truly be ambiguous. Not saying they don't exist, but most love triangles have either an obvious pairing where someone is thrown in for dramatic purposes (ex: Twilight, the Witcher) Or you have the ones with the more subtle hints, but the hints are there as to what the endgame will be/where the hearts of the characters truly lie.

I truly don't think it's meant to be open-ended, although some will choose to view it that way.

This one reminded me of Fruits Basket.

It also featured a love triangle between the main trio of Kyo, Yuki and Tohru, except this one had a clear winner. Still, it gave both sides plenty of moments together so that you can ship either one (and hell, some prefer an OT3), including a plot point about an event in their childhood.

In the end, the loser ended up admitting that what he felt wasn't love but maternal affection for Tohru. That particular development still drives my sister up the wall, but it really couldn't have ended any other way is the thing. The ending just wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

 

[GamerSkull]

This one reminded me of Fruits Basket.

It also featured a love triangle between the main trio of Kyo, Yuki and Tohru, except this one had a clear winner. Still, it gave both sides plenty of moments together so that you can ship either one (and hell, some prefer an OT3), including a plot point about an event in their childhood.

In the end, the loser ended up admitting that what he felt wasn't love but maternal affection for Tohru. That particular development still drives my sister up the wall, but it really couldn't have ended any other way is the thing. The ending just wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

Isn’t that like Squall, Quistis and Rinoa? Although I suppose there was never a love triangle there. Just that Quistis was interested in him at the beginning and it turned out she felt sisterly love in the end.

 

[Empyrea]

Isn’t that like Squall, Quistis and Rinoa? Although I suppose there was never a love triangle there. Just that Quistis was interested in him at the beginning and it turned out she felt sisterly love in the end.

Kinda, now that you mentioned it! But yeah, that one was dead before it started, imo.
Still, while Squall and Rinoa had to be canon from the start, cause....c'mon, they're the logo, I never quite got their dynamic. It really didn't help for me that Rinoa was just a non-participant for, like, 1 and a half discs.

 

[GamerSkull]

Kinda, now that you mentioned it! But yeah, that one was dead before it started, imo.
Still, while Squall and Rinoa had to be canon from the start, cause....c'mon, they're the logo, I never quite got their dynamic. It really didn't help for me that Rinoa was just a non-participant for, like, 1 and a half discs.

Not a big fan of her myself either. Same for Squall. I only like his KH counterpart.

 

[null]

Isn’t that like Squall, Quistis and Rinoa? Although I suppose there was never a love triangle there. Just that Quistis was interested in him at the beginning and it turned out she felt sisterly love in the end.

If there was a Hell for romance tropes to go when they die, Mistaken For Love would burn for all eternity next to Not Related By Blood.

 

[Suffi]

Spoiler

I haven't seen the scene yet---I can only go on what the leaks and what people here have said. So perhaps my thoughts on this will change once I play the game (hurry up, mailman!)

So you have Aerith seeing this event, and others, in a romantic light. But by Cloud's responses, he does not. Now we know Cloud isn't oblivious to romantic tension or other people's feelings per Tifa's date. With context, it's clear he doesn't see Aerith this way. Now this doesn't mean he doesn't care for her, of course he does. Just not romantic feelings.

Now Aerith is a bit trickier. She seems like she's unsure whether she likes Cloud romantically or not. But the fact that she's having to question it seems to lean towards no. But the love triangle can be concluded here, because if Cloud is not returning her maybe-romantic feelings, he certainly won't further on after the Lifestream sequence---it wouldn't make any sense. Throw Zack into the story, and then you really see where the writers are taking you.

This doesn't mean people will stop shipping Cloud and Aerith. No matter what is shown, if it's their preferred ship, that's what they see. I think nolstalgia plays a heavy role in this as well. If they've loved Cloud and Aerith as a pairing since their early years, no matter what is shown to them, why stop now if they enjoy the pairing? The only time this personally bothers me is if they insist their headcanon is correct when it's clear that Cloud adores Tifa and loves the life he builds with her.

But one thing I will say, at least from my experience, it's rare for a love triangle to truly be ambiguous. Not saying they don't exist, but most love triangles have either an obvious pairing where someone is thrown in for dramatic purposes (ex: Twilight, the Witcher) Or you have the ones with the more subtle hints, but the hints are there as to what the endgame will be/where the hearts of the characters truly lie.

I truly don't think it's meant to be open-ended, although some will choose to view it that way.

The one anime that popped into my head right away that never really solved the love triangle is Tenchi Muyo! Didn’t he end up with all the girls?

 

[Rose Alive]

The one anime that popped into my head right away that never really solved the love triangle is Tenchi Muyo! Didn’t he end up with all the girls?

Im sorry I haven't seen that anime.
The only love triangle I know of where the person ended up with both was The Infernal Devices series. But even then, it was obvious who her first choice was. She only ended up with both bc she was immortal, and she married the mortal. After he died, later on in her life, she ended up with the other guy who the author conveniently made immortal as well.

 

[Suffi]

Im sorry I haven't seen that anime.
The only love triangle I know of where the person ended up with both was The Infernal Devices series. But even then, it was obvious who her first choice was. She only ended up with both bc she was immortal, and she married the mortal. After he died, later on in her life, she ended up with the other guy who the author conveniently made immortal as well.

Oh! And I thought recently they revealed that Jean Grey / Cyclops / Wolverine are in a polyamorous relationship. (Until another writer changes that)

 

[Yumelinh]

Yeah that was my take from this too, just Aerith doing Aerith things, I think she's mostly teasing.

You're absolutely correct! Teasing is a much better way to explain it. It's just Aerith doing what she likes to do the most, lol.

Looks like the JP version of Aerith’s line to Cloud about liking and liking someone is more ambiguous. She says: この好きは どの好さなんだろう

Which translates to “I wonder what kind of like/love this is?“ So the intention of the original line is left more ambiguous as to whether or not Aerith likes Cloud romantically.

I was wrong to base my interpretation on SENA’s translation. I still think this is a solid conclusion to satiate both Zerith/Clerith shippers since people who favor Cloud and Aerith can argue that they could have gotten together if they had more time while Zack and Aerith shippers can say that Aerith couldn’t replace Zack with Cloud.

Yeah, I do agree that is definitely less conclusive in Japanese. But I do wonder why they decided to translate it that way, not that I don't trust your translation or anything, but rather because the EN matches Tifa's dialogue in ToTP to such an extend that it feels intentional, lol. Maybe it was just a homage to that? idk.

 

[Yumelinh]

Good point. Especially considering Zack does not get to interact with a (conscious) Aerith at all in this game. We will surely get some of that in part 3. I just hope there's a good payoff for it. Aerith hints at still liking him in Gongaga, hopefully that goes somewhere and isn't just 'ship bait.

I haven't seen all of Zack's scenes (I want to save something to actually experience in my playthrough), but the ones I happened to see involved Aerith one way or another. Even when Cloud remembers him, it was still a memory where he was gushing about how much he liked Aerith; he was literally described as 'head over heels for Aerith' by Cloud Like??? I absolutely do not believe for a second that they're doing all this build-up with him just to let him down at the end. Zack exists as a character outside of Aerith; even if they needed to address his and Aerith's relationship with him back, there was no need to tie his character's story arc in Rebirth this much with her if all the devs wanted to do was to break them apart in the end.

 

[Suffi]

Interviews with the developers have stated that Zack’s role in the trilogy is to explain how the mythos of the FFVII world works.

Spoiler: Zack’s role explained by the developers.

Through him, players will be able to experience and understand more of the Final Fantasy VII worldview and it will deepen their understanding of the Final Fantasy VII world," Hamaguchi says. "We have used the character Zack to depict the combined view of [story and scenario writer Kazushige Nojima, creative director Tetsuya Nomura, and producer Yoshinori Kitase] – the original creators – intents of how this world of Final Fantasy VII came to be and its policies and rules governing this world. This is going to be depicted through the character of Zack. As much as the Whispers within the story, Zack is an equally, immensely important, crucial, key character to this story that I believe fans will enjoy within Rebirth."

Here the article for further reading.

GameInformer - The Final Level

www.gameinformer.com