SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Graymouse]

If she’s in Part 3, it better be more interactions with Zack and not the main party this time. After finishing the game, I am left wanting as far as both of them are concerned.

That would make much more sense plot wise and I hadn't thought of it that way!

 

[Hix]

Aerith's role in the story has largely passed, but her own personal character arc remains incomplete and for this reason I feel we'll see a lot of her in part 3 - even if she doesn't interact with the party or have a tangible influence on physical events.

Her own story has been building since Remake. At the beginning she's still going through the motions after 5 years, but feeling increasingly lost and confused. Then this guy appears who looks so much and acts so much like him.

Over time you can see - and I feel the devs enhanced this even further in Rebirth - the way Aerith relates to Cloud just as she once did with Zack. Re-enacting the same dates, making the same one-liners and jokes, trying to engage in the same playful flirting. This isn't the actions of a horny girl who forces herself on a man she barely knows, but a genuine and tragic attempt of a woman trying to recapture a lost love.

This culminates with

Spoiler

the Sector 5 dream date. This is just, man, it could not be any more on the nose. Everything about this, to the n'th degree, is a recreation of her date in Crisis Core but ending in a negative or disappointing manner. It finishes off with Aerith herself seemingly taking a moment to reflect, do I like-like him? Really?

Aerith's death is timely here, because she no longer has a leading place in Cloud's personal story (Tifa coming to prominence soon) but also it means she can find resolution in her own.

Zack/Aerith need to have their reunion, their reconciliation, their falling in love all over again and everything else leading up to Advent Children Complete - where they are together, now for eternity, punctuated by Aerith's flowers growing on Zack's grave and Zack's buster sword sitting in the church.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

If she’s in Part 3, it better be more interactions with Zack and not the main party this time. After finishing the game, I am left wanting as far as both of them are concerned.

Spoiler

I sure as hell wouldn’t want to see Aerith’s presence in 3 be limited to just a hallucination/vision/Force ghost that only Cloud sees and interacts with.

Like you say, there needs to be actual interactions with Zack, which I believe they will. I know I say it all the time but in terms of “laying the groundwork”, they’ve done this in spades in Rebirth for Aerith and Zack’s reunion.

But not just Zack, Aerith was important to the WHOLE PARTY. It would be a massive disservice (again I know I say this a lot but it’s true) for Aerith to just haunt Cloud the entire game.

If they are going to include Aerith’s presence, then they need to respect the incredibly deep and rich bonds she forms with everyone in the party, not just Cloud.

Hell, of the entire party, the one most visibly distraught and seen mourning her loss is Tifa. But she had deep feelings and connections to Barret, Red, and Yuffie. She had meaningful interactions with and friendships with Cait Sith, Vincent and Cid.

I’m not saying they all need to interact with Aerith’s ghost or anything, but if Aerith had a presence in any capacity in 3, I’d like it to be in connection with the others as well. Like have each of them have a moment where they recall what Aerith meant to them, what she did for them, how she helped them and continues to inspire them.

That is rewarding for both Aerith fans and everyone else and it actually expands on and enriches the story.

If 3 only hyper fixates on Cloud’s feelings about Aerith’s loss it will come at expense of Rebirth’s efforts to establish the bonds she had with the rest of the party.

 

[Graymouse]

Aerith's role in the story has largely passed, but her own personal character arc remains incomplete and for this reason I feel we'll see a lot of her in part 3 - even if she doesn't interact with the party or have a tangible influence on physical events.

Her own story has been building since Remake. At the beginning she's still going through the motions after 5 years, but feeling increasingly lost and confused. Then this guy appears who looks so much and acts so much like him.

Over time you can see - and I feel the devs enhanced this even further in Rebirth - the way Aerith relates to Cloud just as she once did with Zack. Re-enacting the same dates, making the same one-liners and jokes, trying to engage in the same playful flirting. This isn't the actions of a horny girl who forces herself on a man she barely knows, but a genuine and tragic attempt of a woman trying to recapture a lost love.

This culminates with

Spoiler

the Sector 5 dream date. This is just, man, it could not be any more on the nose. Everything about this, to the n'th degree, is a recreation of her date in Crisis Core but ending in a negative or disappointing manner. It finishes off with Aerith herself seemingly taking a moment to reflect, do I like-like him? Really?

Aerith's death is timely here, because she no longer has a leading place in Cloud's personal story (Tifa coming to prominence soon) but also it means she can find resolution in her own.

Zack/Aerith need to have their reunion, their reconciliation, their falling in love all over again and everything else leading up to Advent Children Complete - where they are together, now for eternity, punctuated by Aerith's flowers growing on Zack's grave and Zack's buster sword sitting in the church.

I agree 110% and great points.

C/A has ate very well and I do believe it is time for Z/A to pull up a chair to the table.

I would love to see that and whether anyone likes it or not Zack is important to Aerith’s story. Since the third and last game is probably the last time SE will touch FF7 it would make sense for SE to close Z/A story arch and leave no doubts how all the characters end their stories.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I think Part 3 will have a playable sections -with actual stats and perhaps even some equipment and materia- with the two of them as they work to figure out how to stop the meta, multiversal side of the plot while Cloud and Co focus on stopping OG Sephiroth. I fully suspect these to dovetail in the end, naturally,

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I think Part 3 will have a playable sections -with actual stats and perhaps even some equipment and materia- with the two of them as they work to figure out how to stop the meta, multiversal side of the plot while Cloud and Co focus on stopping OG Sephiroth. I fully suspect these to dovetail in the end, naturally,

I actually like this idea.

Aerith taking a more active role so to speak in Zack’s story not only benefits Zack by facilitating their reunion and everything, but allows for Zack to get the screen time and presence he couldn’t in Part 3.

Like I definitely got the sense that they were limited with what they could do with Zack in Rebirth, his original arc ended when he died trying to get back to Aerith, who is unconscious in Zack’s world because she is conscious in Cloud’s, like there was only so far they could take his story without Aerith being a more active part in it. Thus why I think Biggs was brought in. Whilst Aerith is still with the main party and main storyline there isn’t much for Zack to do.

But going into 3 this isn’t the case, and if anything Zack’s story can get more momentum and importance because now Aerith will potentially be a part of it.

 

[GamerSkull]

Spoiler

I sure as hell wouldn’t want to see Aerith’s presence in 3 be limited to just a hallucination/vision/Force ghost that only Cloud sees and interacts with.

Like you say, there needs to be actual interactions with Zack, which I believe they will. I know I say it all the time but in terms of “laying the groundwork”, they’ve done this in spades in Rebirth for Aerith and Zack’s reunion.

But not just Zack, Aerith was important to the WHOLE PARTY. It would be a massive disservice (again I know I say this a lot but it’s true) for Aerith to just haunt Cloud the entire game.

If they are going to include Aerith’s presence, then they need to respect the incredibly deep and rich bonds she forms with everyone in the party, not just Cloud.

Hell, of the entire party, the one most visibly distraught and seen mourning her loss is Tifa. But she had deep feelings and connections to Barret, Red, and Yuffie. She had meaningful interactions with and friendships with Cait Sith, Vincent and Cid.

I’m not saying they all need to interact with Aerith’s ghost or anything, but if Aerith had a presence in any capacity in 3, I’d like it to be in connection with the others as well. Like have each of them have a moment where they recall what Aerith meant to them, what she did for them, how she helped them and continues to inspire them.

That is rewarding for both Aerith fans and everyone else and it actually expands on and enriches the story.

If 3 only hyper fixates on Cloud’s feelings about Aerith’s loss it will come at expense of Rebirth’s efforts to establish the bonds she had with the rest of the party.

Yes, Aerith had relationships with all the party members and we should see that and not just her relationship as it pertains to Cloud.

 

[shady]

So if you look at the full lyrics for NPTK (they're in the credits) I would say its definitely about Cloud, even if some of the lyrics can be interpreted as also being about Zack, she didn't meet Zack on a street that's for sure.

What confuses me is why the developers thought to develop Cloud and Tifa as they have, bring Zack back into the game..

Spoiler

Have Aerith seem to confirm she doesn't know how much she even likes Cloud, and at the point of writing the song couldn't possibly know she was going to die because she had her memories taken from her

Yet after knowing Cloud like a week or so she writes this huge love ballad about wanting to be with him forever and so on and so forth... it's weird all around or is it just me?

 

[Graymouse]

I actually like this idea.

Aerith taking a more active role so to speak in Zack’s story not only benefits Zack by facilitating their reunion and everything, but allows for Zack to get the screen time and presence he couldn’t in Part 3.

Like I definitely got the sense that they were limited with what they could do with Zack in Rebirth, his original arc ended when he died trying to get back to Aerith, who is unconscious in Zack’s world because she is conscious in Cloud’s, like there was only so far they could take his story without Aerith being a more active part in it. Thus why I think Biggs was brought in. Whilst Aerith is still with the main party and main storyline there isn’t much for Zack to do.

But going into 3 this isn’t the case, and if anything Zack’s story can get more momentum and importance because now Aerith will potentially be a part of it.

Areith will wake up in Zack's timeline! That is borderline genius by the Devs of SE! The only thing left is how they either merge the time lines or bring it all together in the separate timelines.

Could Zack's timeline be the lifestream and Zack or anybody he interacts with doesnt know it. And he and everyone he reacts with is actually dead.

A lifestream simulation if you will?

Since Aerith has died in the OG timeline, she will wake up in the simulation timeline...

 

[starcape91]

The way that they showed small bits of the Lifestream sequence in Gongaga - and with such care right down to heart achingly good music shows me we have nothing to worry about with the Lifestream Sequence in part 3. My goodness I’m totally blown away by that section.

 

[GamerSkull]

So if you look at the full lyrics for NPTK (they're in the credits) I would say its definitely about Cloud, even if some of the lyrics can be interpreted as also being about Zack, she didn't meet Zack on a street that's for sure.

What confuses me is why the developers thought to develop Cloud and Tifa as they have, bring Zack back into the game..

Spoiler

Have Aerith seem to confirm she doesn't know how much she even likes Cloud, and at the point of writing the song couldn't possibly know she was going to die because she had her memories taken from her

Yet after knowing Cloud like a week or so she writes this huge love ballad about wanting to be with him forever and so on and so forth... it's weird all around or is it just me?

What makes it even more awkward is that if Cloud is on a date with Tifa and she’s Princess Rosa then they’re holding hands while listening to her. And Tifa’s theme also starts playing after the song when the characters are doing curtain call.

 

[starcape91]

What makes it even more awkward is that if Cloud is on a date with Tifa and she’s Princess Rosa then they’re holding hands while listening to her. And Tifa’s theme also starts playing after the song when the characters are doing curtain call.

I really think that the song (like many songs) has more than one meaning and can be applied to lots of aspects of the story. Yes, it’s about Cloud, but I think it’s also about:

1. Zack. Don’t forget that Nomura stated the TGA trailer was put together very carefully. “Know that you’ll find me” right as Zack is watching over Aerith. Also it shows a bunch of the characters like Cid, Barret and Dyne - so I do think it’s about everyone in a way.

2. The Loveless play. It has to fit at least a little bit into the play that it’s performed during.

3. Life in general and the whole party. I haven’t played Cosmo Canyon yet. Even though Aerith has lost her future memories by this point, is it possible that she starts to realize her possible fate and her duty as the last Cetra here before she writes the song? She’s also more aware of then about how everyone returns to the Lifestream, and the memories of those who have lived, live on, and they can all meet again in the Lifestream.

4. The player. This one is a bit meta. But it’s like she’s saying to the player about how you can meet Aerith again any time you replay the game - and so in that way she’ll never be gone. Remember how in the very first teaser trailer for Remake in 2015, the voiceover said “the promise has been made”? The promise that we, players of the OG can meet our favorite characters again - finally.

 

[JaeKony]

So if you look at the full lyrics for NPTK (they're in the credits) I would say its definitely about Cloud, even if some of the lyrics can be interpreted as also being about Zack, she didn't meet Zack on a street that's for sure.

What confuses me is why the developers thought to develop Cloud and Tifa as they have, bring Zack back into the game..

Spoiler

Have Aerith seem to confirm she doesn't know how much she even likes Cloud, and at the point of writing the song couldn't possibly know she was going to die because she had her memories taken from her

Yet after knowing Cloud like a week or so she writes this huge love ballad about wanting to be with him forever and so on and so forth... it's weird all around or is it just me?

I like the interpretation that, similar to how Hollow can be about Zack AND Aerith, NPTK doesn’t have to be about exclusively Cloud or exclusively Zack.

Spoiler

In Rebirth, Aerith struggles with her feelings between the two and I think NPTK beautifully represents that.

From a story-perspective, Aerith writes the song during the second trip to the Gold Saucer (some people have theorized that she wrote it after she and Tifa had a conversation about Cloud knowing Zack although I’m not sure if this is confirmed) so, if that’s true, then Aerith canonically wrote it about Zack (there’s no need for “reunion” with Cloud when they are in the same party)

At the same time tho, I think NPTK is a meta-reference to Cloud’s line in the OG Ending of FF7 where he says, “I think I can meet her there.”
I know people often associate “reunion” with Cloud and Tifa since they make a promise together as kids, but I do think “reunion” later becomes a theme in Cloud and Aerith’s relationship after her death as well. As we discussed yesterday, Cloud does want to reunite with Aerith (and all his other loved ones) again one day in the Lifestream so I think NPTK is a reflection of Aerith wanting to see Cloud again after her death.

Do I think NPTK is definitive proof a ship has sailed? No. But, I can’t outright say it’s NOT about C/A just like how I can’t outright say it’s NOT about Z/A. That being said, I am personally leaning more towards it being about C/A (with a little Zack sprinkled in)

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I’m going to hold off from now on speculating about Part 3. I don’t want to end up being disappointed if it turns out we don’t even get the final part of the trilogy, or even a final part that has severely less quality and scope due to a reduced budget.

I’m saying all this after having seen the sales figures for Rebirth.

They aren’t good, and it’s got me concerned about the trilogy’s third part being either outright cancelled by Square Enix (if they cancelled 15’s final DLC, after that game sold as well as it did, they’ll for sure cancel Remake Part 3 if Rebirth completely undersells) or not given the same resources as Remake and Rebirth and thus is an overall weaker entry as a result.

 

[starcape91]

I’m going to hold off from now on speculating about Part 3. I don’t want to end up being disappointed if it turns out we don’t even get the final part of the trilogy, or even a final part that has severely less quality and scope due to a reduced budget.

I’m saying all this after having seen the sales figures for Rebirth.

They aren’t good, and it’s got me concerned about the trilogy’s third part being either outright cancelled by Square Enix (if they cancelled 15’s final DLC, after that game sold as well as it did, they’ll for sure cancel Remake Part 3 if Rebirth completely undersells) or not given the same resources as Remake and Rebirth and thus is an overall weaker entry as a result.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. It's early days still. It'll come out for PC in a couple years too and sell a lot more.

 

[GamerSkull]

I wouldn't worry too much about that. It's early days still. It'll come out for PC in a couple years too and sell a lot more.

The PC market for this will probably be huge. Hopefully it comes out on Steam first though, I remember Epic Store got Remake first and it didn’t arrive on Steam until much later. It will definitely sell more on Steam.

Also mods, I wanna run around with Cloud’s semi-Vincent outfit from Kingdom Hearts.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

it’s just the fact Square Enix themselves haven’t made an announcement yet about sales like they did with XVI in its first week

That to me indicates it’s not only underperforming below XVI (already shown by it selling less than XVI and Remake in both UK and Japan) but seriously underperforming below their lofty expectations given XVI sold 3 million in its first week and was still a disappointment to Square Enix

I know it’s still early days, but all this does bear mentioning given how it could impact Part 3’s development, they might look at Rebirth’s sales performance and decide Part 3 either needs a complete overhaul, things cut out to get it shipped quicker, or does an overall massively reduced scope and budget compared to Remake and Rebirth

Like I seriously doubt anyone including Square Enix was expecting Rebirth to be selling this significantly below XVI

It makes you wonder if Remake’s ending turned off that many people, and if it did then Rebirth’s ending is certainly going to turn off a helluva lot more

 

[starcape91]

The PC market for this will probably be huge. Hopefully it comes out on Steam first though, I remember Epic Store got Remake first and it didn’t arrive on Steam until much later. It will definitely sell more on Steam.

Also mods, I wanna run around with Cloud’s semi-Vincent outfit from Kingdom Hearts.

Yeah, they're not going to leave us high and dry for Part 3. They've sunk too much financially into it. Plus, once all three are out there will probably be a big collection of all three games. I could even see a thing like Intergrade of all three for the PS6.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think it’s too early to tell. Maybe Part 3 will be greatly affected, maybe it won’t.

I think it’s pointless to be anxious over it now. Even to the point of not discussing future developments. We can still have fun with discussion for now and worry about that later.

 

[Axiom]

The land of Copiumhagen, Denialmark

I have devised a straightforward test for analyzing difficult scenes like these. It's called "what would make my wife divorce me faster". Holding hands or kissing. (Hypothetically, obviously.) So If I'm standing back to back holding hands with a pretty extrovert I just met a few weeks ago, yeah I'm probably not talking my way out of that. Although she might buy "but we were teleporting or... something? I don't know. I'm not even sure if I imagined it" but I probably need Sephiroth to back me up on that.

But if I got caught hugging and kissing the girl next door turned fitness model? On a gondala with fireworks and music? I'd get the future earnings kicked out of me faster than you could say Starshower.

Yeah, this is pretty much my thought process too. There is plausible deniability for the Aerith scenes.

The Tifa kiss is devastating.

 

[starcape91]

Yeah, this is pretty much my thought process too. There is plausible deniability for the Aerith scenes.

The Tifa kiss is devastating.

Devastatingly wonderful.

 

[Legend45]

Devastatingly wonderful.

Anyone see any streamers or players reaction to the Gold Saucer? Then again everyone seems to be taking their time with the game which is fine

 

[starcape91]

Anyone see any streamers or players reaction to the Gold Saucer? Then again everyone seems to be taking their time with the game which is fine

I wanna see Max react to the kissssssss.

 

[starcape91]

Sorry for the double post.
I'm exploring Gongaga and it's one of the best locations so far. The music is gorgeous, the jumping chocobos, the jungle - it's perfect and makes sense that Zack grew up here - he's such a happy guy, he probably had so many adventures growing up here.

 

[Ruri]

I loved Gongaga. I loved Cissnei actually, it's for her I want to play Crisis Core. Like, upon meeting her why does she ooze levelheadedness and utter chill. I love that she seems to be in charge of protecting the vicinity but not orignally from there. And a turk to boot? Easy heart eyes for me within moments.

Actually gonna knock a point off for Gongaga. Lush and beautiful but I had to google how to physically reach the reactor. I circled that place a couple of times too many.

edit - oh god, this is the LTD thread not the general spoiler thread. Please forgive