SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Stiggie]

Not a shipper (the only ship I love is Zack x being alive), and I'm in a weird position when it comes to the LTD, I think. I'm probably alone in this.
I don't think the romance was done good with EITHER girls. (For context, I'm female IRL, just stating that because there was a comment earlier about how girlies tend to trend towards CA).

I like Tifa, shes just sort of OK, I like moments where she shows extreme emotions (anger and happiness) and breaks out of her shell, but her and Cloud are just... awkward. I know they are supposed to be awkward, but before they kissed, they just came off as really good friends. Little touches here and there, people actually do that in real life to friends, surprise surprise. The lingering glances are a bit less subtle, but other than that... eh. I get the whole childhood crush thing, but even Tifa admits in the return to Nibel that she doesnt know Cloud as well as she thought she did. Yeah Cloud is a mess (getting to that later) but they went from kids, to not knowing each other for five years, to getting back together on a friendship that has a lot of lies and untruths to it? (Don't kill me for this lol)

Aerith on the other hand comes across as a girl desperate for love; manic and trying to put together what she had before Zack went missing with someone else, but that someone else is nowhere near as responsive as the man she actually fell in love with. I find her and Clouds dynamic cuter because extrovert x introvert, but she pushes him so much that it gets uncomfortable at times. Like Tifa, she doesn't really understand him either. The last date at the church seems like shes trying to grasp at straws and Cloud can't play along.

It makes sense that Cloti is the endgame, but if Aerith hadn't died... I wouldn't be so sure. And that in itself kind of messes me up in a few ways thinking about it.

Anyway, Cloud is too fucked up to be considering a relationship. I wish the relationship stuff wasn't so big a focus, I know I'm in the minority on that, but its just so tedious. Hes clearly going through a ton mentally and spiritually (Sephy stuff) and I feel like part 3 is going to be rough when it comes to the mind-fixing segment in the LS, its now gonna be full of memories of Aerith to balance out Tifa and blah blah blah. Anyway, just rambling here.

TDLR; Zack Fair is a king amongst men and deserves more than any other character in the romance subplot of this RPG game can give him.

I won't kill you for it, but I will disagree in part.

To me, I don't think there was a single scene between Tifa and Cloud that didn't drip with romantic undertones. I think there is a subtle difference between how you act with friends vs someone you have a crush on, and Tifa and Cloud were so consistently on the "crush" side of that line that even normal conversations made me go "why are these two not getting a room already?" The conversations after the Aerith Costa Del Sol date come to mind. It was just a regular conversation but every single line is spoken with this subtle sense of longing. Unlike with any other character Cloud sounds like he's very eager to continue talking to her. Not just "naturally talking to her" like with friends, but mentally pre-occupied with finding ways to get her comfortable and continuing this back and forth. I recognize this behavior since it's exactly what I am desperate to do when I like someone.

Aerith coming across as desperate I completely agree with. But I don't find it "cute" at all, I find it a combination of icky from Clouds perspective since he clearly doesn't like it (as evidenced by the Kalm scene) and depressing from Aeriths perspective who is clearly living out a lie and coping hard.

I also agree with Zack being a king amongst men, and as my favorite character I sympathize with wanting him to be alive, but since he's my favorite character I ship Zack x not having his story ruined.

 

[Rin]

My thing with CA is that falling for a guy who reminds you of your dead bf isn't moving on and it never will be. So, from that POV alone I'm not into it. If her feelings for Cloud weren't rooted in her feelings for Zack, CA would stand a narrative chance but that's simply not the point of CA.

 

[Empyrea]

- the entire C/A date is the same thing with OG but what's the difference now and many people can see it? Because their reactions and facial expression. Not just by words but their reactions.

Aerith who supposed to be happy with Cloud yet talking about someone else.. and when Cloud said " but i'm right here.." you can see she felt down because she just said it but Cloud never gets it.

I do think the better localization of the retrilogy also helped, in addition to the modern visuals. I'm not a native English speaker, but I was rather confident that I could write better sentences than the ones in the OG when I was 14 xP

- people had misunderstanding in OG she's referring to real cloud but we know she's actually referring to her own feelings. She cannot see CLOUD AT ALL because all he represents in front of her is ZACK.

I never got how people interpreted that as Real!Cloud when even in OG, Aerith says she wants to meet him when he's right there. That was one of those things that had always made me think that date was canon -- it introduced the idea that there really was something off about Cloud. At least, it was the most obvious one to show that idea. The Kalm flashback was a little subtler about it.

Hey thanks, I think people are being too hard on Aerith. She always seemed to me like someone who says what she's feeling at the time and isn't afraid to do so. Like in Nibelheim when Cloud asks if she's mad she basically said she's just jealous because she didn't have any close friends growing up. A lot of people see this as selfish but I saw it as just her honest feelings at the time. I mean Cloud asked, and maybe it wasn't the best time to bring that up, but to me it seemed like Cloud genuinely wanted to know. And she felt close enough to him that she knew she could be honest.

As you said, Tifa doesn't really react to Aerith in a bad way. They're practically bffs so I don't get all the negative views I see of her trying to get in the way and what not.

Same with when Cloud is talking about Jessie on their date and she says, "Was she a girlfriend? You're kind of clueless about this stuff." Okay, yes, probably not the best thing to say. But Aerith is the type of person who wants to cheer people up or try to lighten a mood and I think that's just how she tried to do that there. By teasing Cloud.

Obviously I've seen heat towards Tifa as well, but just as I don't think the writers intentions were to make Tifa this clingy, weak willed woman who tries to take advantage of Cloud, I don't think Aerith is this selfish, manipulative character who only cares about dating Cloud.

While I don't agree with the backlash, I do see where it's coming from. And while I agree it is her honest feelings, I will say it's inherently selfish (and I don't even think something being selfish is inherently a bad thing). I don't see a reason why those two have to be mutually exclusive.

Now, this all comes down to how people interact with media. In my case, I treat it as a conversation between me and the writer. I don't ascribe to "Death of the Author," but if the writer's intention and what is shown in their writing clash, then something went wrong. Yes, I agree that Aerith definitely wasn't intended to come off a selfish, manipulative character, but it is a fact that one can definitely read her actions that way (but still far from the extremes people say it goes). I've been trying to bend over backwards to excuse her behavior as best as I can (up to and including how Tifa and Cloud react to her) and all it does it make feel disconnected from how they react to how I see the whole thing. It's...perplexing, to say the least.

The Jessie conversation you gave, for example. I will agree it's just like Aerith to try and lighten the mood that way. But I did wish that wasn't a one-off and she eventually learned that that is very insensitive, good intentions aside. I think, at the end of it, my problem with it isn't that she's flawed. As Rin said, flawed characters are great. It's that as far as where the story is now, that part will never be addressed and, most damningly, the writers didn't even have to write Aerith like this at all.

 

[Rin]

As Rin said, flawed characters are great. It's that as far as where the story is now, that part will never be addressed and, most damningly, the writers didn't even have to write Aerith like this at all.

I agree. I think if the narrative treated aeriths flaws like flaws, people would have less to say. For example, in CC when Aerith says SOLDIERs are scary because of the surgery they get and how much they love to fight, her prejudice is treated as such by the narrative and Zack's existence challenges her preconceived notions. By the time the main story begins, we don't have any pushback on anything Aerith says or does. When Cloud does push back, he's ignored both by the narrative and Aerith herself.

This is probably why many people are frustrated with her in the retrilogy because she's a rather static character. There's no growth at all, which is in opposition to Tifa who is written to be hyper aware of her flaws as she works to overcome them out of her own volition.

 

[Hix]

I don't think Aerith is this selfish, manipulative character who only cares about dating Cloud.

If she only cared about getting with Cloud then the game would be vastly different. She wouldn't outright tell him she still loves Zack, she wouldn't question her feelings so openly before the end and, ultimately, it would all be an open betrayal of her friendship with Tifa who she knows has loved Cloud since they were both kids. It demands a different interpretation.

For me, this is simply yet another character assassination, a flanderisation of the characters so square pegs can be fit in round holes. Aerith loves Cloud, simple, case closed, we're told. But such a statement, even if true, lacks all the nuance and context of what has been shown.

Picture the scene: one day a handsome man falls into Aerith's church. He has eyes the color of the sky, she's scared but his eyes smile at her, they have an instant spark and match each others energy. It turns into a deep romance and attraction, calling each other during battles, helping and supporting each other through life's problems, growing together. Then, fate cruelly takes this man out of her life. For nearly 5 years she continues to wait for him, send him love letters, wear the pink dress and ribbon, sell the flowers, miss him more each day until...

A handsome man with eyes the color of the sky falls into her church. Can you imagine how Aerith would feel? Leaving aside what the existence of the Lifestream would bring to it, the confusion, the hopefulness, the desperation to end her loneliness. All of this comes bubbling to the forefront.

In the two short weeks they know each other, they become good friends. But for Aerith that connection with Zack cannot be escaped. It's understandable she would slip into treating Cloud like he's Zack - indeed she admits to doing this - and instead of a malicious attempt to get between CT her actions are, at worst, an attempt to recapture a lost love that was doomed to failure from the beginning.

I don't think she's selfish, manipulative or backstabbing at all. Ironically it's the Cleriths who are left with this view of her because they remove the context of her love for, and missing of, Zack.

It's all on the devs now. Part 3 needs to complete the circle, show us the Reunion (as Zack says, so to as two worlds drift apart they will come back together) and give these characters, all of them, the happy ending they all richly deserve.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

One thing that is constantly being overlooked, especially by a lot of those who fall heavily in favour with the idea of Cloud and Aerith being these star crossed lovers, soulmates etc is that Chapter 12, and Aerith’s Gold Saucer date, is where Aerith now finally decides and admits to wanting to find the real Cloud. Establishing that up until this very moment, her feelings for him were inescapably tied to how much he reminded her of Zack, also affirming she hasn’t moved on from Zack at all. All their interactions and dates prior to this, Aerith wasn’t actively seeking out the real Cloud. She was enjoying her time spent with him, loving their dynamic together, but in the back of her mind acknowledging how much he is reminding her of Zack, and this is where so much of her complex feelings come into play.

She’s torn between the man she hasn’t moved on from in the slightest, and the man who is reminding her of him so much.

It’s only at Chapter 12 she’s arguably now torn between three, Zack still, the Cloud she’s been spending time with up until now, and the real Cloud she has been longing to meet.

Maybe so she can know whether she could feel similarly about that Cloud like how she feels about the Cloud who reminds her of Zack.

So yeah it’s very complex and I can completely understand and sympathise that it does go over a lot of people’s heads when it comes to Cloud and Aerith.

I think Cloud’s feelings for Aerith are far more simpler to discern compared to Aerith’s, but that’s for another post.

Another thing to add about Aerith’s date, is that her decision to right now wanting to be with Cloud, the real Cloud, doesn’t express her intent to move on from Zack. She’s talking about the here and now in that moment, and this is backed up by her saying “Just till the ride’s over” when she leans on Cloud’s arm.

There seems to be an implicit understanding on Aerith’s part that this may be her only chance at really being able to find the real Cloud. She’s allowing herself in the moment to try and forget about Zack, about how much Cloud reminds her of Zack, and just be with Cloud. She accepts she may never get another chance, and that she may not be able to ever sort out her feelings, being as complex as they are, caught up in the attachment she has to two different men, both special to her, but compounded by the fact that the attachment she felt for Cloud was a result of the attachment she felt for Zack.

Right until the end she isn’t able to completely separate that from her feelings for Cloud. The Sector 5 date is a poignant and now that I think more on it beautifully tragic way of showing how Aerith is unable to avoid that truth.

Her behaviour and choices aside in Rebirth, all of this illustrates the deeply layered complexities that make Aerith such a unique and compelling character. FFVII Rebirth really dives into the psychology and richness of Aerith’s personality in my opinion. Much how I hope Part 3 will do the same for Tifa.

No matter which way you look at it, and I hope eventually those who favour Cloud and Aerith come to accept it, Zack is a shadow over their entire relationship.

Not just for Aerith, but for Cloud as well. Zack was Cloud’s closest friend. Zack helped Aerith feel more comfortable being her true self, and Zack had such a profound impact on Cloud that he inspired him to be his living legacy. As it was very clearly spelled out in Crisis Core’s ending.

Aerith on the other hand isn’t a shadow to Cloud and Tifa’s relationship.

There is a duality though that I recognise, that these respective relationships each have a shadow so to speak that gets in the way of them.

But for Cloud and Tifa’s relationship that shadow isn’t Aerith, it’s Sephiroth.

Rebirth goes to town on showing just how much Sephiroth knows that in order to secure victory, he must forever cut the threads that bind Cloud and Tifa together.

For Cloud and Aerith it’s less of a dire existential threat like Sephiroth is to Cloud and Tifa, but Zack is a constant presence in their dynamic and relationship that is impossible for them to disentangle from, as I hope I was able to properly convey in my paragraphs above.

 

[dazzze]

@dazzze have you played the OG? If not I can maybe understand your statement, but there is a lot to unpack on the CT side still. Aerith stood no chance at all, ever because of how Cloud was impacted by Tifa in their childhood.

Played the OG many times.

Your assessment on Aerith I agree with; I too wish there were more Aerti moments because I LOVE it when the girls are shown bonding together, unironically, they make a great match for each other (if SE weren't cowards). The introvert and the extrovert, one doomed by the future, the other held back by the past? Yisplsgimmie. Each one has strengths where the other fails down to their core design principles of strength vs magic, surrounded as a child and sheltered as a child, both lose their parents to Shinra, both don't have a home to return back to.

When it comes to Tifa... its a real mixed bag for me PERSONALLY. I like her outside of the romance stuff, I loved the addition of her panic attack when revisiting the reactor, I love that she steps up to take care of Cloud when hes wheelchair bound, I like her when shes taking steps forward to pursue the bravery she displays in fighting outside of fighting. I actually love the Scarlet bitch-fight even though it will never return in the remakes. When it comes to her and Cloud... eh. I feel like I can't write what I really feel because I'll be cooked for it At best, I like Tifa. Thats about it, though.

I won't kill you for it, but I will disagree in part.

To me, I don't think there was a single scene between Tifa and Cloud that didn't drip with romantic undertones. I think there is a subtle difference between how you act with friends vs someone you have a crush on, and Tifa and Cloud were so consistently on the "crush" side of that line that even normal conversations made me go "why are these two not getting a room already?" The conversations after the Aerith Costa Del Sol date come to mind. It was just a regular conversation but every single line is spoken with this subtle sense of longing. Unlike with any other character Cloud sounds like he's very eager to continue talking to her. Not just "naturally talking to her" like with friends, but mentally pre-occupied with finding ways to get her comfortable and continuing this back and forth. I recognize this behavior since it's exactly what I am desperate to do when I like someone.

Aerith coming across as desperate I completely agree with. But I don't find it "cute" at all, I find it a combination of icky from Clouds perspective since he clearly doesn't like it (as evidenced by the Kalm scene) and depressing from Aeriths perspective who is clearly living out a lie and coping hard.

I also agree with Zack being a king amongst men, and as my favorite character I sympathize with wanting him to be alive, but since he's my favorite character I ship Zack x not having his story ruined.

I'm looking at these scenes without rose-tinted glasses. I understand that they can be read this way, but the same could be said with Aerith and all the moments she and Cloud share, too. Of course Cloud is going to fall in love with the first girl that ever gave him attention, but I mostly see it as trope-y, which can be forgiven as the material is coming from a game from 97. I can look at the ship and understand why its effectively canon (despite AC ... and the lack of romance), but I personally feel like SE tried to please both camps and, in turn, fell short in both.

For transparency, I like Aerith more than Tifa. Her desperation isn't meant to be cute, shes a dead woman barely walking and shes trying (and failing) to get blood (love) from a stone so that her last moments aren't as cold as she knows they'll be. I don't blame her for her actions, she feels human. She was left high and dry after pouring her heart out and got burned (unintentionally), and now shes flat run out of time.

 

[Eerie]

Well tastes are tastes lol when it comes to shipping. It just surprises me that you say you don't see the romance when their fight at Kalm and the reconciliation in Under Junon is romance 101 lol. When I saw that Kalm fight I was like "OMG OMG OMG" and the way it was done, everything dripped romance. They could only fight like this because they do love each other - and make no mistake, Sephiroth wasn't just there to point at Tifa going "sus", it's that to get to Rebirth ending, you NEED freaking SEPHIROTH to take care of the bond they have to severe it. I personally feel that the beginning of the 3rd game is going to be VERY interesting, in terms of relationships - not only CT, in which I expect Tifa to be a lot more reserved than what she even was at the beginning of Rebirth, but also everyone else.

And the game makes it clear: both heroines are alive at that moment, but Cloud choses only one to kiss. I think that was an affirmative from Rebirth to kill all those "if Aerith had lived" theories, because if one thing Rebirth has shown us, it's that the extrovert+introvert, at least with Cloud, does not work. And Tifa too makes him come out of his shell, and more comfortably if I may say.

 

[Stiggie]

Played the OG many times.

Your assessment on Aerith I agree with; I too wish there were more Aerti moments because I LOVE it when the girls are shown bonding together, unironically, they make a great match for each other (if SE weren't cowards). The introvert and the extrovert, one doomed by the future, the other held back by the past? Yisplsgimmie. Each one has strengths where the other fails down to their core design principles of strength vs magic, surrounded as a child and sheltered as a child, both lose their parents to Shinra, both don't have a home to return back to.

When it comes to Tifa... its a real mixed bag for me PERSONALLY. I like her outside of the romance stuff, I loved the addition of her panic attack when revisiting the reactor, I love that she steps up to take care of Cloud when hes wheelchair bound, I like her when shes taking steps forward to pursue the bravery she displays in fighting outside of fighting. I actually love the Scarlet bitch-fight even though it will never return in the remakes. When it comes to her and Cloud... eh. I feel like I can't write what I really feel because I'll be cooked for it At best, I like Tifa. Thats about it, though.



I'm looking at these scenes without rose-tinted glasses. I understand that they can be read this way, but the same could be said with Aerith and all the moments she and Cloud share, too. Of course Cloud is going to fall in love with the first girl that ever gave him attention, but I mostly see it as trope-y, which can be forgiven as the material is coming from a game from 97. I can look at the ship and understand why its effectively canon (despite AC ... and the lack of romance), but I personally feel like SE tried to please both camps and, in turn, fell short in both.

For transparency, I like Aerith more than Tifa. Her desperation isn't meant to be cute, shes a dead woman barely walking and shes trying (and failing) to get blood (love) from a stone so that her last moments aren't as cold as she knows they'll be. I don't blame her for her actions, she feels human. She was left high and dry after pouring her heart out and got burned (unintentionally), and now shes flat run out of time.

Yeah, I anticipated the "But you have bias" counter. But here's the question, do I experience the story as pro-cloti because I am cloti, or am I cloti because I experience the story as being pro-cloti? You say you don't have rose tinted glasses, but I disagree, the moment you experience a piece of media, you will interpret it, and then those interpretations are your new lens. Being in the middle, or experiencing Tifa and Clouds interactions as "just friendly" is just as much a result of you interpreting things through your preferences and beliefs as much as I do, and that will color your interpretation. By essentially saying that me having an opinion my opinion is invalidated, you are implying that the only people whose views can ever be seen as unbiased are those of people who don't pick either side. But if one side is right, then not picking a side is by itself biased. It's only bias if your position doesn't match reality. It's only "rose tinted glasses" if Cloud and Tifa aren't written to be romantic. You can't say I have rose tinted glasses unless you first prove that I am wrong, so it can't be used to a priori dismiss my interpretation.

You saying "in real life people touch their friends all the time" is definitely not you looking at things through a non-biased occams razor view of what is happening. Yes, people in real life do often touch....doesn't mean that when a story goes out of its way to show those touches, and with one person in particular, with added romantic context all around, that this is not also supposed to indicate a part of that romance. In an extreme example, in real life people sleep with people they don't love all the time as well, I wont be using that argument though to say that Cloud and Tifa sleeping together shouldn't be interpreted as necessarily romantic.

I don't think Cloud and Tifa were written especially romantically just because I like to think so, but because I went out of my way to compare them with how Cloud treats others, and vice versa. I do agree that by trying to toe the line between both they fell short in both, but I would say that SE isn't even trying to toe the line between Tifa and Aerith. It's clearly Tifa, Tifa is romantic, this is simply a non-ambiguous fact now. They're trying to toe the line between Aerth and Aerith. Between Aerith being a genuine romantic partner, or Aerith not being a genuine romantic partner. And as a result, neither of those interpretations came out particularly well.

 

[Eerie]

I will add that if many game journalists point that the blooming romance between Cloud and Tifa is well done, and now that the Tifa GS date is the best and most romantic, you can't really say that only shippers see them that way.

May I remind everyone that in my first round of the OG, I hated both Cloud and Aerith, wondered how come such an arse had 2 girls after him, until the Lifestream sequence which made me love Cloud and ship CT lol. The game showed me that Cloud's feelings for Tifa were really deep, and that Tifa was the only one for him. If the game hadn't done that, I wouldn't be a CT shipper. In fact most of the times in any media, I don't really ship, I just enjoy the ships and forget about them after some time lol.

 

[dazzze]

Well tastes are tastes lol when it comes to shipping. It just surprises me that you say you don't see the romance when their fight at Kalm and the reconciliation in Under Junon is romance 101 lol. When I saw that Kalm fight I was like "OMG OMG OMG" and the way it was done, everything dripped romance. They could only fight like this because they do love each other - and make no mistake, Sephiroth wasn't just there to point at Tifa going "sus", it's that to get to Rebirth ending, you NEED freaking SEPHIROTH to take care of the bond they have to severe it. I personally feel that the beginning of the 3rd game is going to be VERY interesting, in terms of relationships - not only CT, in which I expect Tifa to be a lot more reserved than what she even was at the beginning of Rebirth, but also everyone else.

And the game makes it clear: both heroines are alive at that moment, but Cloud choses only one to kiss. I think that was an affirmative from Rebirth to kill all those "if Aerith had lived" theories, because if one thing Rebirth has shown us, it's that the extrovert+introvert, at least with Cloud, does not work. And Tifa too makes him come out of his shell, and more comfortably if I may say.

Yeah, I anticipated the "But you have bias" counter. But here's the question, do I experience the story as pro-cloti because I am cloti, or am I cloti because I experience the story as being pro-cloti? You say you don't have rose tinted glasses, but I disagree, the moment you experience a piece of media, you will interpret it, and then those interpretations are your new lens. Being in the middle, or experiencing Tifa and Clouds interactions as "just friendly" is just as much a result of you interpreting things through your preferences and beliefs as much as I do, and that will color your interpretation. You saying "in real life people touch their friends all the time" is definitely not you looking at thing through a non-biases occams razor view of what is happening. Yes, people in real life do often touch....doesn't mean that when a story goes out of its way to show those touches, and with one person in particular, with added romantic context all around, that this is not also supposed to indicate a part of that romance.

I don't think Cloud and Tifa were written especially romantically just because I like to think so, but because I went out of my way to compare them with how Cloud treats others, and vice versa. I do agree that by trying to toe the line between both they fell short in both. But I would say that SE isn't even trying to toe the line between Tifa and Aerith.
It's clearly Tifa, Tifa is romantic, this is simply a non-ambiguous fact now. They're trying to toe the line between Aerth and Aerith. Between Aerith being a genuine romantic partner, or Aerith not being a genuine romantic partner.

I made it clear I'm not arguing for any ship, especially on a place like this where its wholly in favor of one over the other, so you don't have to waste time justifying anything to someone like me. My perception IS skewed but in an entirely different direction and by completely different glasses; without saying too much, my focus is almost entirely on what I feel like Cloud needs rather than the girls. Him and I share some problems IRL. That has, in turn, tinted my view on the idea of romance regarding him specifically. Can't be helped.

SE manifactured this game with the idea of putting both camps at war with each other; and its working. They have got both side death-threating the other side, fighting on multiple platforms and generally acting insane. I don't want to play into that at all, this is why I write 'personally' when I'm writing my thoughts out. My views on the girls as characters are different, but I'm thinking of them away from Cloud and as they stand on their own, and when it comes to the pairings, I personally feel like it dragged everyone down.

I don't feel like the kiss scene was a good move at all. I also don't feel like Aerith's pushiness was a good look for the character at all, either. I like Tifa's devotion. I like Aerith's playfulness. It is what it is.

If I had my way (LMAO) but my ending ship is everyone lives in a big house as friends (and everyone lives). Cloud and Zack works as mercs and Tifa and Aerith run a bar together. And everyone is happy and there are no defined ships and the fanbase all gets along. ~

(Actually I lied I ship Zack x PLEASE SE GIVE HIM A HAPPY ENDING IM TIRED OF YALL)

 

[faefolk]

Not a shipper (the only ship I love is Zack x being alive), and I'm in a weird position when it comes to the LTD, I think. I'm probably alone in this.
I don't think the romance was done good with EITHER girls. (For context, I'm female IRL, just stating that because there was a comment earlier about how girlies tend to trend towards CA).

I like Tifa, shes just sort of OK, I like moments where she shows extreme emotions (anger and happiness) and breaks out of her shell, but her and Cloud are just... awkward. I know they are supposed to be awkward, but before they kissed, they just came off as really good friends. Little touches here and there, people actually do that in real life to friends, surprise surprise. The lingering glances are a bit less subtle, but other than that... eh. I get the whole childhood crush thing, but even Tifa admits in the return to Nibel that she doesnt know Cloud as well as she thought she did. Yeah Cloud is a mess (getting to that later) but they went from kids, to not knowing each other for five years, to getting back together on a friendship that has a lot of lies and untruths to it? (Don't kill me for this lol)

Aerith on the other hand comes across as a girl desperate for love; manic and trying to put together what she had before Zack went missing with someone else, but that someone else is nowhere near as responsive as the man she actually fell in love with. I find her and Clouds dynamic cuter because extrovert x introvert, but she pushes him so much that it gets uncomfortable at times. Like Tifa, she doesn't really understand him either. The last date at the church seems like shes trying to grasp at straws and Cloud can't play along.

It makes sense that Cloti is the endgame, but if Aerith hadn't died... I wouldn't be so sure. And that in itself kind of messes me up in a few ways thinking about it.

Anyway, Cloud is too fucked up to be considering a relationship. I wish the relationship stuff wasn't so big a focus, I know I'm in the minority on that, but its just so tedious. Hes clearly going through a ton mentally and spiritually (Sephy stuff) and I feel like part 3 is going to be rough when it comes to the mind-fixing segment in the LS, its now gonna be full of memories of Aerith to balance out Tifa and blah blah blah. Anyway, just rambling here.

TDLR; Zack Fair is a king amongst men and deserves more than any other character in the romance subplot of this RPG game can give him.

Have you played the OG? Regarding your view of Tifa - I find she's hugely reserved for most of the main story because she's silently freaking out over knowing something is super wrong with Cloud. I agree she could be less reserved but I guess I'm sympathetic to her and Cloud as characters because they have seriously messed up trauma that would make anyone cautious.

Weirdly I actually get the 'wet blanket' remarks about Tifa and Cloud as individuals that I've seen - even though I LOVE them so much. Because yeah.. they're not the typical extroverted heros - just super fkn traumatised kids really. But as a formerly super traumatised kid, I just really enjoy the fact that they're both just really good people at heart that are struggling and want stability. I think it's so cool that the main heroes of the story are so very imperfect. They have communication issues that are frustrating to watch and Tifa has a truly horrendous fawn response to everything whereas Cloud is just so painfully avoidant.

Possibly also personally attached to them cause me and my husband are formerly traumatised wet blanket folk that strove for stability as soon as we could and live like elderly people at the ripe old age of 30. We're more fun now that we're less traumatised though but very boring lmfao. Weirdly my experience also makes me agree that Cloud (and Tifa imho) really should not be together properly until they're both mentally more stable. That's what I appreciated in the ambiguity of ACC. The love between them is definitely there in an obvious way but it wasn't obvious that they were actually engaged in a normal relationship (until for me the credits scene where he asks her to close the bar so they can have a fam day) and that was okay for me. I know my husband and I (childhood sweethearts irl) had to split for a couple years to process individual trauma before we could continue as a couple and lived together platonically in that time frame. Again.. probably projecting but I don't know. I love the humanness of their relationship and the kind of .. slightly sad and boring normalcy of being a couple navigating serious mental health challenges.

But yes, I also agree the relationship stuff shouldn't be the main focus. That's what upsets me about Aerith being portrayed as so pushy and why I appreciate Tifa being reluctant as a romantic partner. Cloud is really truly in no fit state at this point in the game to be doing that. Definitely got 'not sure I should have done that' vibes from Tifa post GS kiss in rebirth when they get off the skywheel. I think she's aware she shouldn't push it. Aerith on the other hand really pushes it and also just keeps bringing up Zack and I'm like girl, please go to therapy. All three of them need some serious fkn psychological treatment lol.

I agree that Aerith seems very manic. To be fair though, she's genuinely aware of the spectre of death hovering above her all the time and I'm positive that would make anyone super fkn messed up.

And gonna agree again re Zack. He really is/was too good and pure for the world of FFVII. He really is the ideal hero kind of character. Absolutely love him! Lovely boy with a lovely family and just generally a stable man. Heck in CC he even talks about his feelings openly. I Stan an emotionally healthy man. Zack really is the best.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I never got how people interpreted that as Real!Cloud when even in OG, Aerith says she wants to meet him when he's right there. That was one of those things that had always made me think that date was canon -- it introduced the idea that there really was something off about Cloud. At least, it was the most obvious one to show that idea. The Kalm flashback was a little subtler about it.

- things are different to be fair in 97' ( although it was a bit weird in my eyes) you wont be able to see it right away and I understand how its easy to confused people. Honestly until you finished the game you wont be able to see the ( false persona and Zack') complete picture. I think this is what's missing in OG.

The fusion memories, Jenova and Aerith confusion has been explain in Ultimania ( until then that's the time people will have 'ureka' moment "ahhh soo this is what happened"

They focus soo much on 'impact' on Aerith's death that 1st part Tifa is a bit mishandled in disc 1. Hence why it was changed so much in remake/rebirth

May I remind everyone that in my first round of the OG, I hated both Cloud and Aerith, wondered how come such an arse had 2 girls after him, until the Lifestream sequence which made me love Cloud and ship CT lol. The game showed me that Cloud's feelings for Tifa were really deep, and that Tifa was the only one for him. If the game hadn't done that, I wouldn't be a CT shipper. In fact most of the times in any media, I don't really ship, I just enjoy the ships and forget about them after some time lol.

- in my case I like Tifa since day 1 ( I dont like OG AERITH at all - i wont go into details might get personal due to people who geniune like them - would like to show respect ) but I love how Tifa is always been the background support and I love women who fights their fist soo cool for me.

Cloti is like a cherry on top for me. ( ahhh soo this is the story..)

- still even back then until the compilation starts to be release that's the only time you'll get the picture.

 

[faefolk]

Well tastes are tastes lol when it comes to shipping. It just surprises me that you say you don't see the romance when their fight at Kalm and the reconciliation in Under Junon is romance 101 lol. When I saw that Kalm fight I was like "OMG OMG OMG" and the way it was done, everything dripped romance. They could only fight like this because they do love each other -

I have to say I don't agree re the Kalm fight - even though I'm definitely a Cloud/Tifa gal. The apology for Kalm however - that definitely had romantic undertones.

Kalm was just a crazy alien manipulated mess man. Ughhh.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I would say I think that's why in part some might prefer the LA versions of the dates, or LA versions can still have their positives or work better. Or if like me you bumrush the story and do zero side stuff ending up on guys night out

 

[faefolk]

I would say I think that's why in part some might prefer the LA versions of the dates, or LA versions can still have their positives or work better. Or if like me you bumrush the story and do zero side stuff ending up on guys night out

Yeah I don't have a ps5 yet cause I have other stuff we need to buy ATM but even as a Cloti I'll be going for the Yuffie date when I get the game

That was actually my favourite of them all. I thought it was absolutely brilliant. And obviously as a Cloti I personally see the strong foundations the game sets for part three in terms of more appropriately timed Cloud/Tifa stuff which I would prefer. I'm much more comfortable watching them being more explicitly romantic after the Lifestream sequence when Cloud is in a much less vulnerable state mentally.

Obviously still got heart eyes and felt all mushy watching their GS date though. Twenty years of build up will do that though

 

[dazzze]

Have you played the OG? Regarding your view of Tifa - I find she's hugely reserved for most of the main story because she's silently freaking out over knowing something is super wrong with Cloud. I agree she could be more reserved but I guess I'm sympathetic to her and Cloud as characters because they have seriously messed up trauma that would make anyone cautious.

Weirdly I actually get the 'wet blanket' remarks about Tifa and Cloud as individuals that I've seen - even though I LOVE them so much. Because yeah.. they're not the typical extroverted heros - just super fkn traumatised kids really. But as a formerly super traumatised kid, I just really enjoy the fact that they're both just really good people at heart that are struggling and want stability. I think it's so cool that the main heroes of the story are so very imperfect. They have communication issues that are frustrating to watch and Tifa has a truly horrendous fawn response to everything whereas Cloud is just so painfully avoidant.

Possibly also personally attached to them cause me and my husband are formerly traumatised wet blanket folk that strove for stability as soon as we could and live like elderly people at the ripe old age of 30. We're more fun now that we're less traumatised though but very boring lmfao. Weirdly my experience also makes me agree that Cloud (and Tifa imho) really should not be together properly until they're both mentally more stable. That's what I appreciated in the ambiguity of ACC. The love between them is definitely there in an obvious way but it wasn't obvious that they were actually engaged in a normal relationship (until for me the credits scene where he asks her to close the bar so they can have a fam day) and that was okay for me. I know my husband and I (childhood sweethearts irl) had to split for a couple years to process individual trauma before we could continue as a couple and lived together platonically in that time frame. Again.. probably projecting but I don't know. I love the humanness of their relationship and the kind of .. slightly sad and boring normalcy of being a couple navigating serious mental health challenges.

But yes, I also agree the relationship stuff shouldn't be the main focus. That's what upsets me about Aerith being portrayed as so pushy and why I appreciate Tifa being reluctant as a romantic partner. Cloud is really truly in no fit state at this point in the game to be doing that. Definitely got 'not sure I should have done that' vibes from Tifa post GS kiss in rebirth when they get off the skywheel. I think she's aware she shouldn't push it. Aerith on the other hand really pushes it and also just keeps bringing up Zack and I'm like girl, please go to therapy. All three of them need some serious fkn psychological treatment lol.

I agree that Aerith seems very manic. To be fair though, she's genuinely aware of the spectre of death hovering above her all the time and I'm positive that would make anyone super fkn messed up.

And gonna agree again re Zack. He really is/was too good and pure for the world of FFVII. He really is the ideal hero kind of character. Absolutely love him! Lovely boy with a lovely family and just generally a stable man. Heck in CC he even talks about his feelings openly. I Stan an emotionally healthy man. Zack really is the best.

As I had already stated, I've played the OG multiple times.

I don't think Tifa is a wet blanket, she is what you say she is, a truamatised child. I agree with you 10000000% percent and I'm glad I didn't type it out first (LOL), Cloud should not be in a relationship, I don't think Tifa should either, (Aerith is gone but if she wasn't alive I'd say the same thing) I think they both need help. I don't neccessarily feel like 'just being there' is enough. I don't blame either of them for how they are, but I feel like there are SOME benefits to having them paired of with those who have not only more conviction, but more self-belief, and are able to shed those believes and stability onto others (Zakkura and Aerti really are the MVPs huh SE STOP BEING COWARDS). I'm hiding it in this block of text so no-one but you reads it (lmao) but as someone who is on anti-psychotics for reasons IRL I couldn't imagine being Cloud and then, on top, having to deal with romance on top of it all and then, on top of that, being wedged in a 3 way square. (This is what I mean by personal bias). And I'll be really, real honest, I feel like Cloud is vulnerable. (Quick edit, when I say 'vulnerable', I don't mean in his actions. I feel like hes a vulnerable person, or, someone who could be easily led by anyone around him / isn't in control of his thoughts and emotions / needs assistance in the field of generally existing.) I don't feel like either girl should be pursuing him when he doesnt know what he wants but hey, its not real life, its media, so it isn't that serious (ha).

As a fellow truamatised person, for mental health being as big as a theme as it is in these games, boy is it not only written bizzarely but the majority of shippers just don't seem to care about it. CA's see Tifa as some boring pity-hungry nobody and CT's see Aerith as a crazy, desperate whore. In reality, Gaia is filled with horrors that are PRIMARILY man-made, and no-one gets a reprieve from it. It's sad to say, but sometimes, love isn't enough. Just throwing people at each other isn't enough (and this is why I've never really liked the last disc 'fix Clouds mind in the LS' thing; they set up enough realism with his issues and then fix it away with magic? And then when they change face and make him depressed in AC, suddenly people are like 'Cloud is such an asshole for how he treats Tifa!' and its like huh? What is goinnnnnn' onnnnn!

(Side note, even Cloud brings up talking to Aerith about Zack in Tifas GS date so its like none of them can get him off their minds aha cries sobs pukes I love Zack so much.)

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I have to say I don't agree re the Kalm fight - even though I'm definitely a Cloud/Tifa gal. The apology for Kalm however - that definitely had romantic undertones.

- antis will always use angts again cloti. What I like about them is dynamic we know in real relationship there is no HAPPY EVER AFTER. AT some point in time you'll gonna find differences and fight.

This is what good about Cloti they we're like real couple--> they romance, they fight and knows how to make up with each other. That's what makes it stronger.

 

[Empyrea]

If I had my way (LMAO) but my ending ship is everyone lives in a big house as friends (and everyone lives). Cloud and Zack works as mercs and Tifa and Aerith run a bar together. And everyone is happy and there are no defined ships and the fanbase all gets along. ~

Unfortunately impossible. You can't ever satisfy everyone and trying to do so is just doomed to failure. Even in that scenario you gave, I guarantee you that there would still be ship wars. Just look at the Persona waifu wars lol

I mean, hey, if we're talking biases, I'd say this game betrayed me for shafting AerTi when they had such a good thing going in Remake. I'd also reiterate I'm not Cloud's biggest fan (cause I said that so far back), so I'm not a traditional Cloti as it were. But I'm not the writer, and I much prefer that they stick to their guns, my own interpretations be damned. As a member of their audience, my part is to see what they wanna show me through the end and take in experience as it comes. I won't always agree with it (my heart's still with AerTi) and it's not perfect, but it's got something good going for almost a lot of us.

 

[faefolk]

As I had already stated, I've played the OG multiple times.

I don't think Tifa is a wet blanket, she is what you say she is, a truamatised child. I agree with you 10000000% percent and I'm glad I didn't type it out first (LOL), Cloud should not be in a relationship, I don't think Tifa should either, (Aerith is gone but if she wasn't alive I'd say the same thing) I think they both need help. I don't neccessarily feel like 'just being there' is enough. I don't blame either of them for how they are, but I feel like there are SOME benefits to having them paired of with those who have not only more conviction, but more self-belief, and are able to shed those believes and stability onto others (Zakkura and Aerti really are the MVPs huh SE STOP BEING COWARDS). I'm hiding it in this block of text so no-one but you reads it (lmao) but as someone who is on anti-psychotics for reasons IRL I couldn't imagine being Cloud and then, on top, having to deal with romance on top of it all and then, on top of that, being wedged in a 3 way square. (This is what I mean by personal bias). And I'll be really, real honest, I feel like Cloud is vulnerable. (Quick edit, when I say 'vulnerable', I don't mean in his actions. I feel like hes a vulnerable person, or, someone who could be easily led by anyone around him / isn't in control of his thoughts and emotions / needs assistance in the field of generally existing.) I don't feel like either girl should be pursuing him when he doesnt know what he wants but hey, its not real life, its media, so it isn't that serious (ha).

As a fellow truamatised person, for mental health being as big as a theme as it is in these games, boy is it not only written bizzarely but the majority of shippers just don't seem to care about it. CA's see Tifa as some boring pity-hungry nobody and CT's see Aerith as a crazy, desperate whore. In reality, Gaia is filled with horrors that are PRIMARILY man-made, and no-one gets a reprieve from it. It's sad to say, but sometimes, love isn't enough. Just throwing people at each other isn't enough (and this is why I've never really liked the last disc 'fix Clouds mind in the LS' thing; they set up enough realism with his issues and then fix it away with magic? And then when they change face and make him depressed in AC, suddenly people are like 'Cloud is such an asshole for how he treats Tifa!' and its like huh? What is goinnnnnn' onnnnn!

(Side note, even Cloud brings up talking to Aerith about Zack in Tifas GS date so its like none of them can get him off their minds aha cries sobs pukes I love Zack so much.)

Yeah sorry that was my bad. I didn't see the other replies first

What the heck is Zakkura? I won't judge. I've randomly started reading Cloud/Seph time travel fix it fics so yanno lmao
Oh I know you didn't say wet blanket, that was all me haha. They're objectively pretty unexciting in comparison to many other cast members. But I dig it because saaaaame. Re your comments about them being with someone with more self belief... I kind of get that but again my outlook is coloured by my life experiences with my husband. We both have some serious childhood trauma and yeah.. we couldn't be together at our worst points but we did help one another through and it did work for us. So my view of Cloud and Tifas dynamic is like I dunno.. weirdly personal to me. They have similar personality types to me and my husband too so it's definitely my headcanon that they could make it work if they didn't rush things.

Also samesies with antipsychotics too (though I've been unmedicated and stable without for four years now, woo!) so I 10000000000% get what you say when you say Cloud is vulnerable. Again that's why I appreciate (from my perspective) the Tifa dynamic where every escalation has been Clouds own initiative and she seems to know that she should absolutely not push and be very careful navigating it. I think she is doing her best to help him but doesn't know how which is y'know... Fair.

I would agree again that the shipping discourse is often really uncomfortable from a mental health perspective. I appreciate the realism of FFVII so, so freaking much. And I absolutely loved Advent children too for being ballsy enough to show that Cloud is still traumatised and not okay because of course he isn't okay. And idk why they say he's treating Tifa badly because even Tifa doesn't think that in AC. She knows he's just hurting and that's okay. Like, she gets stern when it comes to their kids but as a Mom I totally get that. Other than that she is patient and understanding so idk why some shippers can't emulate that and realise that mental health problems don't just magically disappear.

Re the Golden Saucer date and Zack being brought up.. that just made me cringe for Tifa and Aerith because we know he's really just asking in reference to the Nibelheim conversation where he's like 'Zack drowned' I'm just like 'ohhh honey, nooo.'
Best Zack reference for the dates was 110% Yuffies. Best date. That made me misty eyed. Ughhhh I love that guy.

 

[faefolk]

- antis will always use angts again cloti. What I like about them is dynamic we know in real relationship there is no HAPPY EVER AFTER. AT some point in time you'll gonna find differences and fight.

This is what good about Cloti they we're like real couple--> they romance, they fight and knows how to make up with each other. That's what makes it stronger.

Oh yeah, I more meant I didn't see their relationship as developed enough at that point to see it as romantic. However resolving the issue with healthy communication made them closer in a way that did feel romantic. So it definitely developed the romance - just not until the resolution for me

 

[dazzze]

Yeah sorry that was my bad. I didn't see the other replies first

What the heck is Zakkura? I won't judge. I've randomly started reading Cloud/Seph time travel fix it fics so yanno lmao
Oh I know you didn't say wet blanket, that was all me haha. They're objectively pretty unexciting in comparison to many other cast members. But I dig it because saaaaame. Re your comments about them being with someone with more self belief... I kind of get that but again my outlook is coloured by my life experiences with my husband. We both have some serious childhood trauma and yeah.. we couldn't be together at our worst points but we did help one another through and it did work for us. So my view of Cloud and Tifas dynamic is like I dunno.. weirdly personal to me. They have similar personality types to me and my husband too so it's definitely my headcanon that they could make it work if they didn't rush things.

Also samesies with antipsychotics too (though I've been unmedicated and stable without for four years now, woo!) so I 10000000000% get what you say when you say Cloud is vulnerable. Again that's why I appreciate (from my perspective) the Tifa dynamic where every escalation has been Clouds own initiative and she seems to know that she should absolutely not push and be very careful navigating it. I think she is doing her best to help him but doesn't know how which is y'know... Fair.

I would agree again that the shipping discourse is often really uncomfortable from a mental health perspective. I appreciate the realism of FFVII so, so freaking much. And I absolutely loved Advent children too for being ballsy enough to show that Cloud is still traumatised and not okay because of course he isn't okay. And idk why they say he's treating Tifa badly because even Tifa doesn't think that in AC. She knows he's just hurting and that's okay. Like, she gets stern when it comes to their kids but as a Mom I totally get that. Other than that she is patient and understanding so idk why some shippers can't emulate that and realise that mental health problems don't just magically disappear.

Re the Golden Saucer date and Zack being brought up.. that just made me cringe for Tifa and Aerith because we know he's really just asking in reference to the Nibelheim conversation where he's like 'Zack drowned' I'm just like 'ohhh honey, nooo.'
Best Zack reference for the dates was 110% Yuffies. Best date. That made me misty eyed. Ughhhh I love that guy.

Zakkura is CloudxZack! It's surprisingly wholesome, then again, is there anyone that can't be fixed by that literal ray of sunshine bursting into their lives? And your take and experiences on Cloti are sweet. They have one game to show us that that sort of dynamic can be written as earnestly as that, but somehow I don't trust them and I expect Cloud to be fixed by Tifa 100 percent (like OG lol) without any of the nuance about the stuff that comes with mental health.

Oh yeses you so get it. Proud of you for getting off! I haven't been brave enough to stop yet but home to get there soon (everytime I'm like I don't need them I have a FF7 style past flashback and I'm like actually I'm good I'll stay on them LOL). I actually fell in love with FF7 all those years ago when I found out that the main protag was struggling with mental health, and after playing the OG I was in pieces. Halfly because I ADORE Cloud, and halfly because he deadass got fixed so easily and I'm here like where my Tifa wtf I want to be put together. The only thing I like about AC is depressed Cloud. Its a shame some people don't like the fact he has feelings.

I find your comments about Cloti way more compelling and interesting than what others parroted at me. I'd like to read Tifas reluctance to engage is her trying not to infringe on him, rather than how I initially read it, as 'she's wayyyyy too shy to make the first move uwu!' (God that comment made me think of all the "dominant sexy Cloud' comments I see on twitter and I scream)

DLC needed; Zack date. It's just him spinning the wheel over and over and Cloud trying to beat him up to stop.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

My thing with CA is that falling for a guy who reminds you of your dead bf isn't moving on and it never will be. So, from that POV alone I'm not into it. If her feelings for Cloud weren't rooted in her feelings for Zack, CA would stand a narrative chance but that's simply not the point of CA.

- if we put this in an equation and remove both Zack and Tifa on Cloud and Aerith's lives again i said this to one CA before THEY WONT BE ABLE TO FIND EACH OTHER. as said in article @insanehobbit before

There are moments between C/A that may seem romantic when taken on its own, but viewed within the context of the whole narrative, ultimately reveal that they aren’t quite right for each other, and in each other, they’re actually searching for someone else.

- Aerith is able to live a 'lie' and pretend everything's alright w/o Zack through Cloud and Cloud is able to live his 'soldier-persona' that he thinks strong enough to protect Tifa and be special for her. However in doing so in narrative of the story it also disrupts this to their true' roles.

For Aerith - Cloud is a distraction for her role as a cetra as she wont communicate with LS people if she keeps on remembering Zack and wont accept his death ( w/c she's able to achieve when she's separated from Cloud in ch13) -

Spoiler: click here

which is also why on next chapter ( if i remember correct if i'm wrong ) we're on Aerith's last dream date - w/c is a sign she's ready to face her fate and accept Zack's death. By doing so she's able to 'confess' and express how she feels and recognize the difference between love and like ( different kind of liking)

by accepting one's death she's able to let go those strong feelings holding her back and recognize she didnt like Cloud romantically but different kind of liking as friend and appreciate that although Zack's gone he's able to return as a 'memory'

For Cloud he is holding on to that 'soldier-persona' but makes him loses his real self and thus prone to Sephiroth control.

- again another element how they're not a good couple ( narrative prospective of the story - both of them are living a lie ) although a different kind still a 'pretend' that they think will be good enough but no..

 

[faefolk]

Zakkura is CloudxZack! It's surprisingly wholesome, then again, is there anyone that can't be fixed by that literal ray of sunshine bursting into their lives? And your take and experiences on Cloti are sweet. They have one game to show us that that sort of dynamic can be written as earnestly as that, but somehow I don't trust them and I expect Cloud to be fixed by Tifa 100 percent (like OG lol) without any of the nuance about the stuff that comes with mental health.

Oh yeses you so get it. Proud of you for getting off! I haven't been brave enough to stop yet but home to get there soon (everytime I'm like I don't need them I have a FF7 style past flashback and I'm like actually I'm good I'll stay on them LOL). I actually fell in love with FF7 all those years ago when I found out that the main protag was struggling with mental health, and after playing the OG I was in pieces. Halfly because I ADORE Cloud, and halfly because he deadass got fixed so easily and I'm here like where my Tifa wtf I want to be put together. The only thing I like about AC is depressed Cloud. Its a shame some people don't like the fact he has feelings.

I find your comments about Cloti way more compelling and interesting than what others parroted at me. I'd like to read Tifas reluctance to engage is her trying not to infringe on him, rather than how I initially read it, as 'she's wayyyyy too shy to make the first move uwu!' (God that comment made me think of all the "dominant sexy Cloud' comments I see on twitter and I scream)

DLC needed; Zack date. It's just him spinning the wheel over and over and Cloud trying to beat him up to stop.

I could get around that. I'll have to suss on Ao3 haha.
I really hope they do Cloti justice in the final instalment. Personally I have hope they will. I personally feel like the OG definitely still retained a bittersweet element to it. It just was probably tricky to translate with the animation from that time. I'm actually really excited to see how it all goes because they've definitely really paid painstaking attention to Clouds mental instability in Rebirth. I think they did an amazing job - so yeah.. I have hope! I think he'll be relieved to feel more clear post Lifestream but I am assuming they'll keep the bittersweet (symphony, that's life) feel.

Hey, no shame in staying on if you need them! I had a pretty serious mental breakdown that lasted like three years and required seriously treatment but it wasn't actually a permanent thing just a very severe trauma response. If they help, it's brave to keep on them too!
Yes, the mental health themes were what drew me in too! I think Clouds struggle with his identity and his trauma is such a compelling story. Thankfully for me I didn't read it as a quick fix haha but definitely I can get how it can be interpreted that way. And oh yeah.. boy has hella PTSD in AC!

Oh good! I'm glad I argued my case well
Yeah I definitely don't read it as shy personally. Even in remake when he hands her the flower rather than focus on the romance she zeroes in on the 'five years thing' and straight away is thrown. And yeah there are a few similar incidents but you probably don't need a list haha. Even in Gongaga for their almost kiss she walks away and in the GS date I genuinely don't think she expected a kiss. (At the same time I won't bash her for going along with it because she obviously loves him) her body language and what she says when she gets off the gondola to me genuinely read like she felt like she'd kind of messed up. Not in that she doesn't want to kiss him - but that she is so aware that he isn't doing great. Mannnn, I'm so excited to watch all of this come to a head in the final part. Cause she's so distant and scared by the end of Rebirth. I also just don't think she's shy cause she's confident with everyone else and is also a bartender so would be used to navigating flirty dudes. I genuinely think her reluctance stems from her uncertainty and concern about his mental health.

Ohhhh Zack would have the best time haha. I could definitely see that devolving into a play fight I hope we get some cloud and Zack interactions. They're some of my favourite bits in ACC.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Does anyone else find it adorable that Barret has kind of antagonistic relationship/interactions with basically everyone except Tifa and Aerith? xD Although I know it might come across as Barret being hard on Cloud, Red XIII, Yuffie etc to some but in the end he really does care for them all. In Chapter 13 I'm rolling because Cid is still kind of cocky and I think that triggers Barret a bit and Cid's like I'm not letting another man tell me what to do haha. I hope and think they will come to appreciate each other more in the third game