SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Rose Alive]

I saw a new take on the Tifa "pity" kiss. Now apparently the devs let Cloud kiss Tifa because Cloud and Aerith get NPTK, so the devs had to throw something at Tifa to not alienate the Clotis.

I hope the theme song for part three is about something completely random and neutral like da-chao beans.

 

[Yumelinh]

Still trying to catch up with this thread, so there's probably a few things that have already been pointed out before, and I still like 70% of the game, but I really wanted to talk about Aerith's character in Rebirth, since I've been thinking about her characterization a lot these past few days.

I'll start by saying that I adore Aerith, be it in the OG, CC, or whatever - I simply never had a problem with her character or her relationship with Cloud. Personally, I never felt she was a threat to Cloud and Tifa to begin with, since I joined the fandom online when the Compilation was already running. So, I like to believe I have always been able to enjoy their moments without much worry in this aspect as well (my gripe has always been at SE and the way they handle things lol). Another thing worth mentioning is that I don't dislike Rebirth!Aerith, and that's probably because I'm playing with JP voiceovers (no shade to Brianna here, she's doing great! It's just that Sakamoto IS Aerith...she just embodies her character in a way that only someone who's been playing a character for so many years does), and most of the time her interactions feel so fun and lighthearted as they should be. But I did feel like something was 'missing' in this Aerith (and it was not just her memories... or maybe that was precisely it that made such a difference). So, in short, my main problem with Rebirth!Aerith is that Remake!Aerith exists, and the former falls short in comparison to the latter.

Aerith in Remake was just so well-written! She's fun but introspective, like someone who was using jokes and smiles to hide the pain. She liked to tease but wasn't that pushy, she lightened the mood but knew how to respect it when a moment called for it. Even her interactions with Cloud felt much more endearing in Remake when you compare them with their moments in Rebirth. The rooftop date was sweet and light, them not wanting to part ways in the park was cute, and their time in Wall Market was fun, with Aerith being as laser-focused on saving Tifa as Cloud was. Even though she still teased him here and there, this was a great demonstration of Aerith knowing how to respect a moment when it calls for it.

And that's why, even though I understand this Aerith doesn't have all the memories Remake!Aerith had, I'm a little disappointed in how they handled her character in what was supposed to be her game. Again, I don't feel like it was as terrible as many have painted it, but in comparison with Remake!Aerith, I definitely feel a downgrade. She lacked a certain awareness of the mood and was a little more pushy than she used to be, and even her moments with Cloud didn't feel as endearing as the ones in Remake (but I'm a Cloti, so take this statement with a grain of salt). So, in conclusion, Remake!Aerith was amazing, and I guess many fans are just missing her previous characterization.

I'm now actually hoping even more for SE to bring her back in Part 3. I don't want the ending of her character to be here in Rebirth. They missed a few steps with her characterization and completely messed up her death. This is just not how a character as beloved and icon as she is should end her journey, not at all.

 

[Stiggie]

Still trying to catch up with this thread, so there's probably a few things that have already been pointed out before, and I still like 70% of the game, but I really wanted to talk about Aerith's character in Rebirth, since I've been thinking about her characterization a lot these past few days.

I'll start by saying that I adore Aerith, be it in the OG, CC, or whatever - I simply never had a problem with her character or her relationship with Cloud. Personally, I never felt she was a threat to Cloud and Tifa to begin with, since I joined the fandom online when the Compilation was already running. So, I like to believe I have always been able to enjoy their moments without much worry in this aspect as well (my gripe has always been at SE and the way they handle things lol). Another thing worth mentioning is that I don't dislike Rebirth!Aerith, and that's probably because I'm playing with JP voiceovers (no shade to Brianna here, she's doing great! It's just that Sakamoto IS Aerith...she just embodies her character in a way that only someone who's been playing a character for so many years does), and most of the time her interactions feel so fun and lighthearted as they should be. But I did feel like something was 'missing' in this Aerith (and it was not just her memories... or maybe that was precisely it that made such a difference). So, in short, my main problem with Rebirth!Aerith is that Remake!Aerith exists, and the former falls short in comparison to the latter.

Aerith in Remake was just so well-written! She's fun but introspective, like someone who was using jokes and smiles to hide the pain. She liked to tease but wasn't that pushy, she lightened the mood but knew how to respect it when a moment called for it. Even her interactions with Cloud felt much more endearing in Remake when you compare them with their moments in Rebirth. The rooftop date was sweet and light, them not wanting to part ways in the park was cute, and their time in Wall Market was fun, with Aerith being as laser-focused on saving Tifa as Cloud was. Even though she still teased him here and there, this was a great demonstration of Aerith knowing how to respect a moment when it calls for it.

And that's why, even though I understand this Aerith doesn't have all the memories Remake!Aerith had, I'm a little disappointed in how they handled her character in what was supposed to be her game. Again, I don't feel like it was as terrible as many have painted it, but in comparison with Remake!Aerith, I definitely feel a downgrade. She lacked a certain awareness of the mood and was a little more pushy than she used to be, and even her moments with Cloud didn't feel as endearing as the ones in Remake (but I'm a Cloti, so take this statement with a grain of salt). So, in conclusion, Remake!Aerith was amazing, and I guess many fans are just missing her previous characterization.

I'm now actually hoping even more for SE to bring her back in Part 3. I don't want the ending of her character to be here in Rebirth. They missed a few steps with her characterization and completely messed up her death. This is just not how a character as beloved and icon as she is should end her journey, not at all.

All of this is why I really hated Remake Aerith. Because she didn't feel like a person to me, she didn't feel like OG Aerith, and I didn't like that. She didn't feel like a girl figuring out her destiny, she didn't feel a part of the party. I consider Aerith to be the worst handled character in Remake.

I hate what Rebirth did to the story in general as well as some of Aeriths actions, but Aeriths personality itself was a massive improvement to me in Rebirth.

 

[starcape91]

Still trying to catch up with this thread, so there's probably a few things that have already been pointed out before, and I still like 70% of the game, but I really wanted to talk about Aerith's character in Rebirth, since I've been thinking about her characterization a lot these past few days.

I'll start by saying that I adore Aerith, be it in the OG, CC, or whatever - I simply never had a problem with her character or her relationship with Cloud. Personally, I never felt she was a threat to Cloud and Tifa to begin with, since I joined the fandom online when the Compilation was already running. So, I like to believe I have always been able to enjoy their moments without much worry in this aspect as well (my gripe has always been at SE and the way they handle things lol). Another thing worth mentioning is that I don't dislike Rebirth!Aerith, and that's probably because I'm playing with JP voiceovers (no shade to Brianna here, she's doing great! It's just that Sakamoto IS Aerith...she just embodies her character in a way that only someone who's been playing a character for so many years does), and most of the time her interactions feel so fun and lighthearted as they should be. But I did feel like something was 'missing' in this Aerith (and it was not just her memories... or maybe that was precisely it that made such a difference). So, in short, my main problem with Rebirth!Aerith is that Remake!Aerith exists, and the former falls short in comparison to the latter.

Aerith in Remake was just so well-written! She's fun but introspective, like someone who was using jokes and smiles to hide the pain. She liked to tease but wasn't that pushy, she lightened the mood but knew how to respect it when a moment called for it. Even her interactions with Cloud felt much more endearing in Remake when you compare them with their moments in Rebirth. The rooftop date was sweet and light, them not wanting to part ways in the park was cute, and their time in Wall Market was fun, with Aerith being as laser-focused on saving Tifa as Cloud was. Even though she still teased him here and there, this was a great demonstration of Aerith knowing how to respect a moment when it calls for it.

And that's why, even though I understand this Aerith doesn't have all the memories Remake!Aerith had, I'm a little disappointed in how they handled her character in what was supposed to be her game. Again, I don't feel like it was as terrible as many have painted it, but in comparison with Remake!Aerith, I definitely feel a downgrade. She lacked a certain awareness of the mood and was a little more pushy than she used to be, and even her moments with Cloud didn't feel as endearing as the ones in Remake (but I'm a Cloti, so take this statement with a grain of salt). So, in conclusion, Remake!Aerith was amazing, and I guess many fans are just missing her previous characterization.

I'm now actually hoping even more for SE to bring her back in Part 3. I don't want the ending of her character to be here in Rebirth. They missed a few steps with her characterization and completely messed up her death. This is just not how a character as beloved and icon as she is should end her journey, not at all.

You make some interesting points and I felt similarly. And this is coming from someone who didn't particularly like Aerith in the OG - Remake turned me around on her and I enjoyed her a lot more than I thought I would. From what I've been seeing, those who liked her in Remake tend to like her less in Rebirth, and those who disliked her in Remake tend to like her more in Rebirth.

I think that she is closer to her personality from OG in Rebirth. I think part of the reason they removed her memories from her was so that certain moments from the OG could be recreated faithfully. You couldn't really have her going on a date at the Gold Saucer with Cloud if she knew for certain that Cloud is in love with Tifa.

In Remake, as soon as Tifa rejoins the party in the sewers, Aerith immediately steps back. She doesn't tease Cloud nearly as much, and Tifa and Cloud immediately pick up where they left off. In Rebirth when Cloud is telling his story, Tifa says she couldn't sleep the night before the SOLDIERS arrived, Cloud says it was the same for him. Aerith just cocks her head, totally confused and says "Why?" Remake Aerith would've already known.

 

[Stiggie]

But I ultimately have faith in the developers that they are wise enough to know how cherished this cast is, how important it is to deliver on their arcs and their stories. I respect their understanding, and their ambitions to also weave them all into this ever growing tapestry of destiny and fate that is unwieldy and arguably burdensome, but as long as they remember to keep coming back to the characters, their emotions and their feelings, and what their own desires and dreams are, there is nothing to suggest they can’t deliver on a resounding and satisfying finale.

This is probably my problem, I don't have that faith, at all. I see them doing good things, but I also see them taking Wedge an making literally every single interaction with him a fat joke.
I care for the characters, but I also care for the story, and I think you can't have one without the other. If the story changes the characters change, and vice versa. And while at times I feel like they get the story they made, there are other times where I feel they seem to have missed what made their story great SO much that it makes me think the quality of the original was just a fluke.

When they decide, in Rebirt, to make Aeriths death not a somber occasion, but a spectacle thrillride with 10 Sephiroth fights it makes me wonder what the hell these people are thinking. I wanted to see a story that respects the original. As far as I'm concerned I will now never get to see Aeriths death with modern visuals, instead I have this weird circus, done as change for the sake of change, so "the fans would have something new to look forward to", which now that I have seen it once is no longer new either, new once, and now for ever more not as timeless. Same when I see stuff like Marlene saying Aerith likes Cloud, which even with the "as a friend" interpretation is still just done in such a fan baiting way that it makes me worried they're more interested in over dramatizing the characters into sillyness rather than just having them be genuine.

 

[Yumelinh]

All of this is why I really hated Remake Aerith. Because she didn't feel like a person to me, she didn't feel like OG Aerith, and I didn't like that. She didn't feel like a girl figuring out her destiny, she didn't feel a part of the party. I consider Aerith to be the worst handled character in Remake.

I hate what Rebirth did to the story in general as well as some of Aeriths actions, but Aeriths personality itself was a massive improvement to me in Rebirth.

Very valid take ( even tho I feel the opposote as per my post). Rebirth!Aerith does feel more like OG Aerith, but I personally think they were able to handle her well in Remake while still maintaining the essence of OG. Also, I'd say it's hard to judge her relationship with the rest of the party because P1 covers only Midgar where she was just introducted to most of them.

But the elephant in the room is definitely the fact that she clearly knew the future, so can see why some people just couldn't connect with character properly. Still, I didn't expected her character to change so much just because she doesn't know the future anymore, idk.

You make some interesting points and I felt similarly. And this is coming from someone who didn't particularly like Aerith in the OG - Remake turned me around on her and I enjoyed her a lot more than I thought I would. From what I've been seeing, those who liked her in Remake tend to like her less in Rebirth, and those who disliked her in Remake tend to like her more in Rebirth.

I think that she is closer to her personality from OG in Rebirth. I think part of the reason they removed her memories from her was so that certain moments from the OG could be recreated faithfully. You couldn't really have her going on a date at the Gold Saucer with Cloud if she knew for certain that Cloud is in love with Tifa.

In Remake, as soon as Tifa rejoins the party in the sewers, Aerith immediately steps back. She doesn't tease Cloud nearly as much, and Tifa and Cloud immediately pick up where they left off. In Rebirth when Cloud is telling his story, Tifa says she couldn't sleep the night before the SOLDIERS arrived, Cloud says it was the same for him. Aerith just cocks her head, totally confused and says "Why?" Remake Aerith would've already known.

Yeah, I agree! It does feel like the sole reason they removed her memories at the ending of Remake was so she could be more carefree in Rebirth, and while I do understand the necessity of that, it does feel weird that we are playing with a Aerith so different from P1. Especially when we have Red that also lost whatever memories from the future he had, but still feels like P1 Red somehow.

All in all I guess I just a little disappointed in how they handled Aerith and her main scenes here. I don't really feel like this was a good way to part with her character

 

[Maidenofwar]

I've saw some people say it's fine the way they did it because it's Cloud's game not Aerith’s but Aerith was the one who ended up in the New York Times and many other articles over the years. This game was supposed to be her swansong so I don't blame anyone who feels a little short changed especially if it's not something they have planned to pay off later in the third game to some extent.

I don't think my interpretation of OG CA is as toxic/poisonous/messed up as some think the ship, but I was fine that things would still end up leading up into AC anyway but I really wanted Aerith and Zack to live again somehow.

 

[Hellenic]

Sharing because misery loves company.
Why in the bloody hell did I do this to myself? God, this made my brain melt out of my ears.
View attachment 14890View attachment 14891View attachment 14892View attachment 14893

Why are these people like this. I just can't.

 

[Hellenic]

"All creative leads have said Hollow is about Cloud's dedication to Aerith."

Am I the only one who's sick of these songs being used as pure shipping fodder? When Cloud thinks Zack drowned in the river, he says : "Zack was my friend. How could I just forget him like that? Degradation. It's hollowing me out bit by bit..."

I don't get why they put so much value on some songs for their stupid ships. I swear there's the games to give you better and clearer answers out here. I genuinely am tired of any song debates at this point, couse it's all pointless anyway.

 

[Hellenic]

Very valid take ( even tho I feel the opposote as per my post). Rebirth!Aerith does feel more like OG Aerith, but I personally think they were able to handle her well in Remake while still maintaining the essence of OG. Also, I'd say it's hard to judge her relationship with the rest of the party because P1 covers only Midgar where she was just introducted to most of them.

But the elephant in the room is definitely the fact that she clearly knew the future, so can see why some people just couldn't connect with character properly. Still, I didn't expected her character to change so much just because she doesn't know the future anymore, idk.



Yeah, I agree! It does feel like the sole reason they removed her memories at the ending of Remake was so she could be more carefree in Rebirth, and while I do understand the necessity of that, it does feel weird that we are playing with a Aerith so different from P1. Especially when we have Red that also lost whatever memories from the future he had, but still feels like P1 Red somehow.

All in all I guess I just a little disappointed in how they handled Aerith and her main scenes here. I don't really feel like this was a good way to part with her character

I definitely would've prefererred seeing more of the knowledgeable Aerith here too instead of them just conveniently erasing all her Lifestream knowledge for this game.

 

[Hellenic]

I hate that I can see this actually happening...

The denial will never end.

 

[Rin]

Currently going through all the dates and it's really hard to take the CA one seriously when Aerith says she can't find the real Cloud despite trying so hard to find him.

She even says it's not his face or his clothes that makes her think of Zack, but rather it's way he carries himself and his body language that makes it impossible for her to see anyone but Zack even though she knows they're different people.

While she does say that it's ok that they're different bc right now she wants to be with him, she, in the same breath is acknowledging that she is not with him because this is not the real Cloud.

When she says, "Just until the ride's over" I truly got the impression that she knows it's wrong to use him as a Zack stand-in but she can't help it because it's too tempting although she very clearly does feel bad about it. This is why she's happy when he grabs her hand because it feels like he's giving her permission to continue her fantasy.

But again, that's just my interpretation. I just can't look at that scene and confidently say, "Yes, Aerith likes Cloud for Cloud" when she plainly stated that whenever she looks at him she sees another man even though she doesn't want to.

Edit to add: She also thanks him for it after the ride which would be a weird thing to do if she was genuinely just enjoying her time with Cloud. Even he's confused and says he didn't do anything lol. But if she's thanking him for letting her live out her delusions, that makes sense to me.

 

[Graymouse]

I came across this on Twitter. Take it however you want to.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360652320782966786

 

[faefolk]

I came across this on Twitter. Take it however you want to.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1360652320782966786

This is the greatest haha. Iconic.

 

[Dashell]

I loved flawed characters so Aerith being flawed has never bothered me, personally. I also think the fandom is just a bit too harsh overall, although I understand why her actions may trigger some people. But ultimately, as I told a friend of mine, if Tifa isn't bothered than neither am I.

If part of the storyline were to genuinely be about Aerith hurting Tifa with these actions (as it was depicted in the OG) then I would feel more strongly about it all. As it is currently, other than one singular confused "huh?" Tifa doesn't bat an eyelash at CA, so I don't either. The one who IS actively being hurt by this plot is Zack but it's not like Aerith is doing it in front of his face, so it's not something that should reflect poorly on her character in my opinion.

Hey thanks, I think people are being too hard on Aerith. She always seemed to me like someone who says what she's feeling at the time and isn't afraid to do so. Like in Nibelheim when Cloud asks if she's mad she basically said she's just jealous because she didn't have any close friends growing up. A lot of people see this as selfish but I saw it as just her honest feelings at the time. I mean Cloud asked, and maybe it wasn't the best time to bring that up, but to me it seemed like Cloud genuinely wanted to know. And she felt close enough to him that she knew she could be honest.

As you said, Tifa doesn't really react to Aerith in a bad way. They're practically bffs so I don't get all the negative views I see of her trying to get in the way and what not.

Same with when Cloud is talking about Jessie on their date and she says, "Was she a girlfriend? You're kind of clueless about this stuff." Okay, yes, probably not the best thing to say. But Aerith is the type of person who wants to cheer people up or try to lighten a mood and I think that's just how she tried to do that there. By teasing Cloud.

Obviously I've seen heat towards Tifa as well, but just as I don't think the writers intentions were to make Tifa this clingy, weak willed woman who tries to take advantage of Cloud, I don't think Aerith is this selfish, manipulative character who only cares about dating Cloud.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

When she says, "Just until the ride's over" I truly got the impression that she knows it's wrong to use him as a Zack stand-in but she can't help it because it's too tempting although she very clearly does feel bad about it. This is why she's happy when he grabs her hand because it feels like he's giving her permission to continue her fantasy.

But again, that's just my interpretation. I just can't look at that scene and confidently say, "Yes, Aerith likes Cloud for Cloud" when she plainly stated that whenever she looks at him she sees another man even though she doesn't want to.

Edit to add: She also thanks him for it after the ride which would be a weird thing to do if she was genuinely just enjoying her time with Cloud. Even he's confused and says he didn't do anything lol. But if she's thanking him for letting her live out her delusions, that makes sense to me.

- the entire C/A date is the same thing with OG but what's the difference now and many people can see it? Because their reactions and facial expression. Not just by words but their reactions.

Aerith who supposed to be happy with Cloud yet talking about someone else.. and when Cloud said " but i'm right here.." you can see she felt down because she just said it but Cloud never gets it.

Just as Aerith says:

She even says it's not his face or his clothes that makes her think of Zack, but rather it's way he carries himself and his body language that makes it impossible for her to see anyone but Zack even though she knows they're different people.

- people had misunderstanding in OG she's referring to real cloud but we know she's actually referring to her own feelings. She cannot see CLOUD AT ALL because all he represents in front of her is ZACK.

 

[dazzze]

Not a shipper (the only ship I love is Zack x being alive), and I'm in a weird position when it comes to the LTD, I think. I'm probably alone in this.
I don't think the romance was done good with EITHER girls. (For context, I'm female IRL, just stating that because there was a comment earlier about how girlies tend to trend towards CA).

I like Tifa, shes just sort of OK, I like moments where she shows extreme emotions (anger and happiness) and breaks out of her shell, but her and Cloud are just... awkward. I know they are supposed to be awkward, but before they kissed, they just came off as really good friends. Little touches here and there, people actually do that in real life to friends, surprise surprise. The lingering glances are a bit less subtle, but other than that... eh. I get the whole childhood crush thing, but even Tifa admits in the return to Nibel that she doesnt know Cloud as well as she thought she did. Yeah Cloud is a mess (getting to that later) but they went from kids, to not knowing each other for five years, to getting back together on a friendship that has a lot of lies and untruths to it? (Don't kill me for this lol)

Aerith on the other hand comes across as a girl desperate for love; manic and trying to put together what she had before Zack went missing with someone else, but that someone else is nowhere near as responsive as the man she actually fell in love with. I find her and Clouds dynamic cuter because extrovert x introvert, but she pushes him so much that it gets uncomfortable at times. Like Tifa, she doesn't really understand him either. The last date at the church seems like shes trying to grasp at straws and Cloud can't play along.

It makes sense that Cloti is the endgame, but if Aerith hadn't died... I wouldn't be so sure. And that in itself kind of messes me up in a few ways thinking about it.

Anyway, Cloud is too fucked up to be considering a relationship. I wish the relationship stuff wasn't so big a focus, I know I'm in the minority on that, but its just so tedious. Hes clearly going through a ton mentally and spiritually (Sephy stuff) and I feel like part 3 is going to be rough when it comes to the mind-fixing segment in the LS, its now gonna be full of memories of Aerith to balance out Tifa and blah blah blah. Anyway, just rambling here.

TDLR; Zack Fair is a king amongst men and deserves more than any other character in the romance subplot of this RPG game can give him.

 

[Stiggie]

As you said, Tifa doesn't really react to Aerith in a bad way

Kinda makes it worse, makes Tifa feel more innocent because Tifa clearly just trusts Aerith, which makes it feel more icky when we the player feel that Aerith is betraying that trust.

Obviously I've seen heat towards Tifa as well, but just as I don't think the writers intentions were to make Tifa this clingy, weak willed woman who tries to take advantage of Cloud, I don't think Aerith is this selfish, manipulative character who only cares about dating Cloud.

Yeah, they never intended for Aeriths actions to make her unlikable I think, but whether or not they are is kind of independent of that.

I do think it's possible to misrepresent a character, I've seen it done with Tifa a bunch of times where her actions in not telling Cloud are portrayed by critics as selfish and not caring about Clouds feelings. The difference is that in those cases the mindset of Tifa is being very clearly misrepresented, which means the criticisms aren't valid, while with Aerith it's not that the mindset is misrepresented, but that the developers intended for that mindset to be less worthy of criticism than the players do.

 

[Eerie]

I think Aerith has a few problems, some which are not linked to her directly but maybe were overlooked.

First, of course, the too many cooks problem. Aerith is very inconsistent because she has not been written the same way in her side quests and in the main quests. When Nojima writes her, she is fine. When Hamaguchi's team writes her is when you go either "oh that's sweet" or "mmh Aerith, you're going too far", because even during the sidequests only, you have this feeling of too many cooks in the kitchen, so it feels inconsistent. Sometimes she is just there, but she's placed always with Cloud doing nothing (??? why, just let someone of your party there, it's weird), sometimes she's all over Cloud, sometimes she's forming bonds with Red, and sometimes we see that she and Tifa bond.

Which leads me to my second problem: the AerTi friendship is here, but it's less good than what it was in Remake. In Remake they probably had fewer scenes, but we SAW them bonding, chatting, being girl friends. We saw Tifa comforting her, we saw Aerith supporting Tifa. It was VERY well done. In Rebirth, we see that they HAD conversations, but we see NOTHING of these. We are meant to UNDERSTAND that they bond and become true friends, but we don't see it ONSCREEN - we aren't really sure about what they talked about - in fact I don't feel that we see them interacting that much outside Costa del Sol and a few scenes. And when we see them interacting, because it's Cloud's POV, we are not shown what they're on about - which makes Costa del Sol even more important in that regard but I don't remember things that really made me go "oh nice" compared to Aerith's conversation with Red there.

And it's another problem that's a bit related, but the game with Aerith ASSUMES THAT YOU HAVE READ TOTP. Which is simply not true for the vast majority of fans, only a few will have read it, in comparison. Like when she talks about her childhood and her loneliness in Cosmo Canyon, it's really hard to connect to this because the game haven't shown you, aside that ONE scene in REMAKE how it was and felt. And that one scene when she was lost was GREAT! It made fans connect with her but some have never even played REMAKE, it was definitely something they should have went on: maybe even in a cutscene in Gongaga where Aerith talks to Tifa about Zack and how he changed her life after Cloud's blunt line. That would have been great and connect a lot of things and allowed us INTO Aerith's character.

Of course adding Aerith's world where it's NOT "our" Aerith even adds to the confusion: how many people have noticed that it wasn't "our" Aerith?

And at the same time, my husband definitely came off as not liking her here. Basically told me she was a manipulative bitch and I know why he's feeling this way, it's because we knew a guy who acted exactly like this (spent a lot of time stealing his friends' girlfriends, I'm not kidding). So I see where people who absolutely can't accept this type of behaviour come from; it's just there is much more to Aerith BUT you have to really dissect her and what's happening to understand this. Which a lot won't do, or can't do, shipping googles or not.

@dazzze have you played the OG? If not I can maybe understand your statement, but there is a lot to unpack on the CT side still. Aerith stood no chance at all, ever because of how Cloud was impacted by Tifa in their childhood.

 

[Stiggie]

Not a shipper (the only ship I love is Zack x being alive), and I'm in a weird position when it comes to the LTD, I think. I'm probably alone in this.
I don't think the romance was done good with EITHER girls. (For context, I'm female IRL, just stating that because there was a comment earlier about how girlies tend to trend towards CA).

I like Tifa, shes just sort of OK, I like moments where she shows extreme emotions (anger and happiness) and breaks out of her shell, but her and Cloud are just... awkward. I know they are supposed to be awkward, but before they kissed, they just came off as really good friends. Little touches here and there, people actually do that in real life to friends, surprise surprise. The lingering glances are a bit less subtle, but other than that... eh. I get the whole childhood crush thing, but even Tifa admits in the return to Nibel that she doesnt know Cloud as well as she thought she did. Yeah Cloud is a mess (getting to that later) but they went from kids, to not knowing each other for five years, to getting back together on a friendship that has a lot of lies and untruths to it? (Don't kill me for this lol)

Aerith on the other hand comes across as a girl desperate for love; manic and trying to put together what she had before Zack went missing with someone else, but that someone else is nowhere near as responsive as the man she actually fell in love with. I find her and Clouds dynamic cuter because extrovert x introvert, but she pushes him so much that it gets uncomfortable at times. Like Tifa, she doesn't really understand him either. The last date at the church seems like shes trying to grasp at straws and Cloud can't play along.

It makes sense that Cloti is the endgame, but if Aerith hadn't died... I wouldn't be so sure. And that in itself kind of messes me up in a few ways thinking about it.

Anyway, Cloud is too fucked up to be considering a relationship. I wish the relationship stuff wasn't so big a focus, I know I'm in the minority on that, but its just so tedious. Hes clearly going through a ton mentally and spiritually (Sephy stuff) and I feel like part 3 is going to be rough when it comes to the mind-fixing segment in the LS, its now gonna be full of memories of Aerith to balance out Tifa and blah blah blah. Anyway, just rambling here.

TDLR; Zack Fair is a king amongst men and deserves more than any other character in the romance subplot of this RPG game can give him.

I won't kill you for it, but I will disagree in part.

To me, I don't think there was a single scene between Tifa and Cloud that didn't drip with romantic undertones. I think there is a subtle difference between how you act with friends vs someone you have a crush on, and Tifa and Cloud were so consistently on the "crush" side of that line that even normal conversations made me go "why are these two not getting a room already?" The conversations after the Aerith Costa Del Sol date come to mind. It was just a regular conversation but every single line is spoken with this subtle sense of longing. Unlike with any other character Cloud sounds like he's very eager to continue talking to her. Not just "naturally talking to her" like with friends, but mentally pre-occupied with finding ways to get her comfortable and continuing this back and forth. I recognize this behavior since it's exactly what I am desperate to do when I like someone.

Aerith coming across as desperate I completely agree with. But I don't find it "cute" at all, I find it a combination of icky from Clouds perspective since he clearly doesn't like it (as evidenced by the Kalm scene) and depressing from Aeriths perspective who is clearly living out a lie and coping hard.

I also agree with Zack being a king amongst men, and as my favorite character I sympathize with wanting him to be alive, but since he's my favorite character I ship Zack x not having his story ruined.

 

[Rin]

My thing with CA is that falling for a guy who reminds you of your dead bf isn't moving on and it never will be. So, from that POV alone I'm not into it. If her feelings for Cloud weren't rooted in her feelings for Zack, CA would stand a narrative chance but that's simply not the point of CA.

 

[Empyrea]

- the entire C/A date is the same thing with OG but what's the difference now and many people can see it? Because their reactions and facial expression. Not just by words but their reactions.

Aerith who supposed to be happy with Cloud yet talking about someone else.. and when Cloud said " but i'm right here.." you can see she felt down because she just said it but Cloud never gets it.

I do think the better localization of the retrilogy also helped, in addition to the modern visuals. I'm not a native English speaker, but I was rather confident that I could write better sentences than the ones in the OG when I was 14 xP

- people had misunderstanding in OG she's referring to real cloud but we know she's actually referring to her own feelings. She cannot see CLOUD AT ALL because all he represents in front of her is ZACK.

I never got how people interpreted that as Real!Cloud when even in OG, Aerith says she wants to meet him when he's right there. That was one of those things that had always made me think that date was canon -- it introduced the idea that there really was something off about Cloud. At least, it was the most obvious one to show that idea. The Kalm flashback was a little subtler about it.

Hey thanks, I think people are being too hard on Aerith. She always seemed to me like someone who says what she's feeling at the time and isn't afraid to do so. Like in Nibelheim when Cloud asks if she's mad she basically said she's just jealous because she didn't have any close friends growing up. A lot of people see this as selfish but I saw it as just her honest feelings at the time. I mean Cloud asked, and maybe it wasn't the best time to bring that up, but to me it seemed like Cloud genuinely wanted to know. And she felt close enough to him that she knew she could be honest.

As you said, Tifa doesn't really react to Aerith in a bad way. They're practically bffs so I don't get all the negative views I see of her trying to get in the way and what not.

Same with when Cloud is talking about Jessie on their date and she says, "Was she a girlfriend? You're kind of clueless about this stuff." Okay, yes, probably not the best thing to say. But Aerith is the type of person who wants to cheer people up or try to lighten a mood and I think that's just how she tried to do that there. By teasing Cloud.

Obviously I've seen heat towards Tifa as well, but just as I don't think the writers intentions were to make Tifa this clingy, weak willed woman who tries to take advantage of Cloud, I don't think Aerith is this selfish, manipulative character who only cares about dating Cloud.

While I don't agree with the backlash, I do see where it's coming from. And while I agree it is her honest feelings, I will say it's inherently selfish (and I don't even think something being selfish is inherently a bad thing). I don't see a reason why those two have to be mutually exclusive.

Now, this all comes down to how people interact with media. In my case, I treat it as a conversation between me and the writer. I don't ascribe to "Death of the Author," but if the writer's intention and what is shown in their writing clash, then something went wrong. Yes, I agree that Aerith definitely wasn't intended to come off a selfish, manipulative character, but it is a fact that one can definitely read her actions that way (but still far from the extremes people say it goes). I've been trying to bend over backwards to excuse her behavior as best as I can (up to and including how Tifa and Cloud react to her) and all it does it make feel disconnected from how they react to how I see the whole thing. It's...perplexing, to say the least.

The Jessie conversation you gave, for example. I will agree it's just like Aerith to try and lighten the mood that way. But I did wish that wasn't a one-off and she eventually learned that that is very insensitive, good intentions aside. I think, at the end of it, my problem with it isn't that she's flawed. As Rin said, flawed characters are great. It's that as far as where the story is now, that part will never be addressed and, most damningly, the writers didn't even have to write Aerith like this at all.

 

[Rin]

As Rin said, flawed characters are great. It's that as far as where the story is now, that part will never be addressed and, most damningly, the writers didn't even have to write Aerith like this at all.

I agree. I think if the narrative treated aeriths flaws like flaws, people would have less to say. For example, in CC when Aerith says SOLDIERs are scary because of the surgery they get and how much they love to fight, her prejudice is treated as such by the narrative and Zack's existence challenges her preconceived notions. By the time the main story begins, we don't have any pushback on anything Aerith says or does. When Cloud does push back, he's ignored both by the narrative and Aerith herself.

This is probably why many people are frustrated with her in the retrilogy because she's a rather static character. There's no growth at all, which is in opposition to Tifa who is written to be hyper aware of her flaws as she works to overcome them out of her own volition.

 

[Hix]

I don't think Aerith is this selfish, manipulative character who only cares about dating Cloud.

If she only cared about getting with Cloud then the game would be vastly different. She wouldn't outright tell him she still loves Zack, she wouldn't question her feelings so openly before the end and, ultimately, it would all be an open betrayal of her friendship with Tifa who she knows has loved Cloud since they were both kids. It demands a different interpretation.

For me, this is simply yet another character assassination, a flanderisation of the characters so square pegs can be fit in round holes. Aerith loves Cloud, simple, case closed, we're told. But such a statement, even if true, lacks all the nuance and context of what has been shown.

Picture the scene: one day a handsome man falls into Aerith's church. He has eyes the color of the sky, she's scared but his eyes smile at her, they have an instant spark and match each others energy. It turns into a deep romance and attraction, calling each other during battles, helping and supporting each other through life's problems, growing together. Then, fate cruelly takes this man out of her life. For nearly 5 years she continues to wait for him, send him love letters, wear the pink dress and ribbon, sell the flowers, miss him more each day until...

A handsome man with eyes the color of the sky falls into her church. Can you imagine how Aerith would feel? Leaving aside what the existence of the Lifestream would bring to it, the confusion, the hopefulness, the desperation to end her loneliness. All of this comes bubbling to the forefront.

In the two short weeks they know each other, they become good friends. But for Aerith that connection with Zack cannot be escaped. It's understandable she would slip into treating Cloud like he's Zack - indeed she admits to doing this - and instead of a malicious attempt to get between CT her actions are, at worst, an attempt to recapture a lost love that was doomed to failure from the beginning.

I don't think she's selfish, manipulative or backstabbing at all. Ironically it's the Cleriths who are left with this view of her because they remove the context of her love for, and missing of, Zack.

It's all on the devs now. Part 3 needs to complete the circle, show us the Reunion (as Zack says, so to as two worlds drift apart they will come back together) and give these characters, all of them, the happy ending they all richly deserve.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

One thing that is constantly being overlooked, especially by a lot of those who fall heavily in favour with the idea of Cloud and Aerith being these star crossed lovers, soulmates etc is that Chapter 12, and Aerith’s Gold Saucer date, is where Aerith now finally decides and admits to wanting to find the real Cloud. Establishing that up until this very moment, her feelings for him were inescapably tied to how much he reminded her of Zack, also affirming she hasn’t moved on from Zack at all. All their interactions and dates prior to this, Aerith wasn’t actively seeking out the real Cloud. She was enjoying her time spent with him, loving their dynamic together, but in the back of her mind acknowledging how much he is reminding her of Zack, and this is where so much of her complex feelings come into play.

She’s torn between the man she hasn’t moved on from in the slightest, and the man who is reminding her of him so much.

It’s only at Chapter 12 she’s arguably now torn between three, Zack still, the Cloud she’s been spending time with up until now, and the real Cloud she has been longing to meet.

Maybe so she can know whether she could feel similarly about that Cloud like how she feels about the Cloud who reminds her of Zack.

So yeah it’s very complex and I can completely understand and sympathise that it does go over a lot of people’s heads when it comes to Cloud and Aerith.

I think Cloud’s feelings for Aerith are far more simpler to discern compared to Aerith’s, but that’s for another post.

Another thing to add about Aerith’s date, is that her decision to right now wanting to be with Cloud, the real Cloud, doesn’t express her intent to move on from Zack. She’s talking about the here and now in that moment, and this is backed up by her saying “Just till the ride’s over” when she leans on Cloud’s arm.

There seems to be an implicit understanding on Aerith’s part that this may be her only chance at really being able to find the real Cloud. She’s allowing herself in the moment to try and forget about Zack, about how much Cloud reminds her of Zack, and just be with Cloud. She accepts she may never get another chance, and that she may not be able to ever sort out her feelings, being as complex as they are, caught up in the attachment she has to two different men, both special to her, but compounded by the fact that the attachment she felt for Cloud was a result of the attachment she felt for Zack.

Right until the end she isn’t able to completely separate that from her feelings for Cloud. The Sector 5 date is a poignant and now that I think more on it beautifully tragic way of showing how Aerith is unable to avoid that truth.

Her behaviour and choices aside in Rebirth, all of this illustrates the deeply layered complexities that make Aerith such a unique and compelling character. FFVII Rebirth really dives into the psychology and richness of Aerith’s personality in my opinion. Much how I hope Part 3 will do the same for Tifa.

No matter which way you look at it, and I hope eventually those who favour Cloud and Aerith come to accept it, Zack is a shadow over their entire relationship.

Not just for Aerith, but for Cloud as well. Zack was Cloud’s closest friend. Zack helped Aerith feel more comfortable being her true self, and Zack had such a profound impact on Cloud that he inspired him to be his living legacy. As it was very clearly spelled out in Crisis Core’s ending.

Aerith on the other hand isn’t a shadow to Cloud and Tifa’s relationship.

There is a duality though that I recognise, that these respective relationships each have a shadow so to speak that gets in the way of them.

But for Cloud and Tifa’s relationship that shadow isn’t Aerith, it’s Sephiroth.

Rebirth goes to town on showing just how much Sephiroth knows that in order to secure victory, he must forever cut the threads that bind Cloud and Tifa together.

For Cloud and Aerith it’s less of a dire existential threat like Sephiroth is to Cloud and Tifa, but Zack is a constant presence in their dynamic and relationship that is impossible for them to disentangle from, as I hope I was able to properly convey in my paragraphs above.