SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

And after that....I honestly don't remember any non-optional scenes between just Cloud and Aerith until chapter 13, so when people say breadcrumbs it almost feels like even that is giving it too much credit.

I think the water tower in Nibelheim is non optional, which is crazy because if you want to max out Aerith, you have to have Cloud admit he was looking at Tifa from there

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I see what you're saying @Eerie People also jumped on me in my blog when I dared talk of the illusion aspect so that her death hits harder. And well points at everything with Loveless, Zack, dream worlds I think CA is interesting bc of that illusion aspect in the narrative. With CT representing the reality. Like I remember in OG there is a part in the end after he sees Aerith's hand in the LS reality will fade back and shift from Aerith to Tifa trying to make sure he is ok. As if he was confused and coming out of a dream. It's always been there.

But also I think we have done enough illusion at this point and can move on instead of making entire Aerith's arc about how torn she is over Cloud and Zack. It does feel like she is some some shoujo manga where the heroine is torn and like where is the rest of her arc? The Cetra lore her heritage, seeking freedom, her dream to fly on the Highwind oner day etc they could have definitely focused more on it. Like a friend mentioned we get all these lifesprings and that's something Cetra should know about being stewards of the planet but she doesn't ever comment on them. Also haven't completely seen it yet but I figured her Cosmo Canyon speech should be more about the Planet, because again she is a Cetra. Or ANY of her conversations with Cloud which I'm at the end of ch. 8 and it's like she might as well not be an Ancient with how little it seems to matter.

I don't consider Nibelhiem romantic because she is clearly supporting Cloud and Tifa and oddly enough even with her wanting to see the date spot this scene is all about friendship even from her side. The fake Water tower was definitely a weird choice tho.

I'm still wrapping my head around the direction they went with a lot of scenes.

 

[Eerie]

It does feel like she is some some shoujo manga where the heroine is torn and like where is the rest of her arc?

I thought with the lifesprings maybe they would be more connected to Aerith and we'd learn something - or at least SHE would - but no. I agree with you, I'm not really fond of her arc, if you look only at the main story there aren't a lot of Aerith things she does. And when she talks about her loneliness etc. people don't connect to it because it was shown ONCE in REMAKE soooooo.... Why Tifa makes that speech about the Planet I understand it giving her own experience in Gongaga, but why isn't Aerith backing it up too in her own speech? Aside underlining what's really going on in Cosmo Canyon (fake touristic attraction with hippie stuff), I don't really see the point which is really TOO BAD. And that one is on Nojima too

Fact is, they should have had her comment more on Tifa's experience in the Lifestream - it's supposed to be part of things she'd know or be eager to learn about at least, they should've made the Aerith ending less long but played up the Cetra heritage more along the game because it's supposed to be super important. A lot of people feel robbed on that, her "Cetra importance" really becomes important at the end and it's like "what do we do with her" up until then.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I enjoyed Cosmo Canyon a lot, probably one of my favourite chapters, apart from how Tifa was treated at first, I was moved by a lot, and you can definitely see Aerith was interested in learning too. A lot happening for the characters in c10 though it's primarily Nanaki's chapter of course.

@LunarTarotGirl you always put things so eloquently, more than I can do, thank you, much of what you say I wanted to say but wasn't sure how, then you say it and I'm like hit like button wow

I've been watching bits of streamers react here and there and there's this bit in the ending where Cloud goes "Are you sure you're going to be ok getting back?" and Aerith did her flirty "and if I said I wasn't" and Cloud smiles, which is a direct playback to their date in Remake, and that was at the very end, they probably knew some people would be very happy with this and/or it was purposeful.

 

[Eerie]

I've been watching bits of streamers react here and there and there's this bit in the ending where Cloud goes "Are you sure you're going to be ok getting back?" and Aerith did her flirty "and if I said I wasn't" and Cloud smiles, which is a direct playback to their date in Remake, and that was at the very end, they probably knew some people would be very happy with this and/or it was purposeful.

I saw that and it's really a nice bit. At the very worst that's where you're supposed to get that this is "our" Aerith, if you had any doubt about it.

For Cosmo Canyon, I was really put off by the fake tourist trap, really. Even Bugenhagen isn't pleased with how things turned, so I hope Nanaki will manage to change that in the future

 

[Ryeleigh]

Note: there are also people who try to pair Tifa with Barret which is even creepier as I think they have a family-esque father/daughter like relationship. Plus Barret will never be over Myrna, period.

What makes Barret/Tifa more funny is that some people thought they were a pair in the OG. Why? Because they saw it through a heteronormative lens: Barret was the dad, Marlene was the daughter, and Tifa was the young woman taking care of the daughter so she must be the mother. And then these same people absolutely refuse to apply the same lens to Cloud/Tifa in ACC. Nope, that's a family of friends, friendfully living together and taking care of two kids.

It's the same with the pivotal CT scenes; the lifestream and under the highwind. These just went right over their heads, such as missing the implied sex because they were nine at the time. And instead of thinking that maybe they should update their nine-year-old impressions now that they're older? Nope, they still seem to think that that was a valid/correct interpretation of the text.

 

[frosty]

No one actually believes Barret/Tifa are a thing except those who don't want Cloud/Tifa to be a thing, let's be real

 

[Eerie]

such as missing the implied sex because they were nine at the time

This is so funny to me because a guy I knew told me he played the game when he was 9, he was extremely bad at it, but he understood that Cloud and Tifa had sex under the Highwind lmao. Me: "BUT YOU WERE ONLY 9 WTF" lol.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Love the reference! Indeed, we must find and destroy the phylactery in 1D10 days or it will come back with all its hit points!

Worse than that. the LTD is a psychic lich. We must find its phylactery, a book, enter the story itself, and kill it again there.

Loveless, by its very nature, should be open to different interpretations no?

It’s a play from antiquity, and the play we take a part in within Rebirth’s story is marketed as the “G Edition”, suggesting it’s one of many adaptations of the play.

I mean there is even a sidequest in Crisis Core about Loveless having these different study groups interpreting the text and what have you.

Much how centuries after the fact we still have many new ideas and reinterpretations of the works of William Shakespeare, so too should the Loveless play invite this as well.

Again wasn’t a huge part of Genesis’ entire character him trying to figure out the hidden and true meaning behind Loveless’ text?

He was, despite the huge gaps in the original texts. I assume the version in Rebirth is intended to be the version he penned.

They definitely shot themselves in the foot with this though. I played all 3 Witcher games before I even read a page of the books, which you could argue is my fault but quite honestly I wasn't such a big reader back then! Anyway like you spend 2 games practically main romancing and getting used to Triss that when you play Witcher 3 and all of a sudden Yennefer enters the picture I was like what the hell who is this and why is she just suddenly the main romance, it definitely confused me and the problem is like I said at this point I was basically attached to Triss so it didn't make much sense to me as to why i'd all of a sudden gravitate towards Yennefer. Of course after reading the books I was like ohhhhhh okay I get it but until then I don't think people can be blamed for CDPR basically pushing Triss on you for 2 games only for it to switch up in the third.

Yeah, CDPR cocked up mostly because they weren't sure how to do Yen justice and then they overcomplicated things for themselves when they brought the unquestionably canon love interest in.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think the water tower in Nibelheim is non optional, which is crazy because if you want to max out Aerith, you have to have Cloud admit he was looking at Tifa from there

Yeah, even if you have him deny it, it’s still framed as a lie that he’s saying out of embarrassment.

 

[Hellenic]

Cloti synergy attacks being gorgeous

I like all those synced moments they have, both in-game cutscenes and as skills. Then there's also all those landing bits too where those 2 always land on their feet in style while Barret and Aerith fall on their asses which i find funny.

 

[Rin]

Basically the CAs being loud and arguing and spewing hate are but a tiny part of the CA fandom and the arguments made here can apply to them. And that's not entirely accurate either bc some of those toxic ones also play they just also want to hate.

The ones I'm talking about in particular don't buy the games, so that's why I said that. And I know they don't buy it 'cause they admit to it / brag about it constantly but then they'll sit there and create a bunch of weird talking points that don't make sense... because they don't play.

This isn't a blanket statement on all CAs, but when discussing the extremists who have very specific and easily recognizable names and love to harass the dev teams and camp out in comment sections.... Well, the facts are the facts. This doesn't mean all CAs are like this and I don't think that was ever the argument.

 

[Hellenic]

No one actually believes Barret/Tifa are a thing except those who don't want Cloud/Tifa to be a thing, let's be real

You gotta forgive me for believing this for like a solid few minutes when i was first introduced to Tifa in Sector 7 when i was like 7 or 8 years old, but i very quickly realized i was wrong about the dynamic .

 

[Stiggie]

No one actually believes Barret/Tifa are a thing except those who don't want Cloud/Tifa to be a thing, let's be real

Same thing with tifa x zack. These aren't genuine beliefs, it's intellectual dishonesty. They know tifa and zack are a problem and desperately try to get rid of them. They know they can't admit that though so they pretend that them trying to pair off tifa and zack with each other, barret, cissnei, whoever, is done because of an appreciation for the actual pairing. Its the most blatant intellectual dishonesty I've ever seen and I always feel disgust when I am forced to respond to an opinion we both know they don't hold. I hate the tactic, it's such a bottom feeder way to argue.

This is so funny to me because a guy I knew told me he played the game when he was 9, he was extremely bad at it, but he understood that Cloud and Tifa had sex under the Highwind lmao. Me: "BUT YOU WERE ONLY 9 WTF" lol.

I was 10 and I got that, it wasn't subtle imo

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I enjoyed Cosmo Canyon a lot, probably one of my favourite chapters, apart from how Tifa was treated at first, I was moved by a lot, and you can definitely see Aerith was interested in learning too. A lot happening for the characters in c10 though it's primarily Nanaki's chapter of course.

When you say how Tifa was treated, is this poor treatment from the villagers of Cosmo Canyon, or do Nanaki and the party treat her poorly?

I keep seeing this mentioned a lot about Chapter 10, that Tifa isn’t treated well. I can handle the idea of it being the villagers but I’d hate Nanaki or the party to be part of it.

 

[frosty]

Yeah, CDPR cocked up mostly because they weren't sure how to do Yen justice and then they overcomplicated things for themselves when they brought the unquestionably canon love interest in.

Funny, I didn't play the first two Witcher games, so I had no emotional attachment to Triss. But how Yen was presented was with the big opening cut scene + within 10 minutes there's a scene of Geralt naked in the bathtub and her ass on display, I thought "well, she must be the main love interest"

Then you open her entry when they're looking for her in White Orchard and it clearly says something about her being Geralt's love and I just never considered Triss as an option after that

This is so funny to me because a guy I knew told me he played the game when he was 9, he was extremely bad at it, but he understood that Cloud and Tifa had sex under the Highwind lmao. Me: "BUT YOU WERE ONLY 9 WTF" lol.

I honestly thought they spent the whole night just sitting next to each other. I didn't even really get they were supposed to be cuddling cos of the blocky figures. Well, "cuddling"

 

[GamerSkull]

When you say how Tifa was treated, is this poor treatment from the villagers of Cosmo Canyon, or do Nanaki and the party treat her poorly?

I keep seeing this mentioned a lot about Chapter 10, that Tifa isn’t treated well. I can handle the idea of it being the villagers but I’d hate Nanaki or the party to be part of it.

The villagers mostly.

Spoiler

she says what she saw while with Weapon in the Lifestream and they all think she’s nuts. Bugenhagen doesn’t think she’s necessarily crazy but he doesn’t believe her at all.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

The villagers mostly.

Spoiler

she says what she saw while with Weapon in the Lifestream and they all think she’s nuts. Bugenhagen doesn’t think she’s necessarily crazy but he doesn’t believe her at all.

What about Nanaki and the party? Or do they not really respond?

 

[GamerSkull]

What about Nanaki and the party? Or do they not really respond?

The party doesn’t actually know what Tifa saw besides what Tifa might have told them. They don’t really say anything but what occurs happens in two small scenes.

I think people overblow Tifa being mistreated in Chapter 10. It’s not really that significant other than the villagers don’t believe her story. And to be honest, only Bugenhagen really challenges it, the rest of the villagers are just silent but you can tell they don’t believe it.

 

[Rin]

What about Nanaki and the party? Or do they not really respond?

Aerith is the one who is by her side most at this moments and she's comforting Tifa, you also get the chance to comfort her as Cloud via dialogue options. The others aren't in these scenes.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

The ones I'm talking about in particular don't buy the games, so that's why I said that. And I know they don't buy it 'cause they admit to it / brag about it constantly but then they'll sit there and create a bunch of weird talking points that don't make sense... because they don't play.

This isn't a blanket statement on all CAs, but when discussing the extremists who have very specific and easily recognizable names and love to harass the dev teams and camp out in comment sections.... Well, the facts are the facts. This doesn't mean all CAs are like this and I don't think that was ever the argument.

I know you don't think that way. I'm not referring to you specifically. Sorry if it sounded like that. And I know what you're referring to because I basically have called it out myself as well and I got a lot of heat for it. But yeah crazy right how the ones with the loudest worst takes can ruin it for everyone else and still be seen as some authority on what a fandom thinks.

But this actually is a widespread idea that it applies to the majority. Many in the fandom do see it as an exception to the rule when they find a CA who does play because of course it's that tiny part who will always attack them. So the tiny minority does seem like the majority leading into the counterarguments I was talking about. Which don't help.

That was in general me referring to it. Same with the merch thing. Because sadly that tiny part has become the spokesperson for the entire fandom. And I do get annoyed at the fact many CA's follow that portion especially new fans because they have a huge following and that's the first they will see thus giving these portions huge platforms they don't deserve. Thus it looks like that's the consensus.

My hot take is all extremists should just be ignored altogether in these conversations bc they misrepresent a lot of the general consensus which is always more neutral in its takes. But as someone pointed out the extremists of any group are usually the most invested and they are the loudest and the ones we'll run into the most on any platform. That's just how fandom is.

 

[Eerie]

What about Nanaki and the party? Or do they not really respond?

They knew about it, Tifa told them in Gongaga. But you can support her in the scene with Aerith by answering her question.

 

[liuliuliu]

If they keep the last hand reaching from OG in the third game, I will be done with any FF7 games. maybe even down with any FF games.

 

[Rin]

I know you don't think that way. I'm not referring to you specifically. Sorry if it sounded like that. And I know what you're referring to because I basically have called it out myself as well and I got a lot of heat for it. But yeah crazy right how the ones with the loudest worst takes can ruin it for everyone else and still be seen as some authority on what a fandom thinks.

But this actually is a widespread idea that it applies to the majority. Many in the fandom do see it as an exception to the rule when they find a CA who does play because of course it's that tiny part who will always attack them. So the tiny minority does seem like the majority leading into the counterarguments I was talking about. Which don't help.

That was in general me referring to it. Same with the merch thing. Because sadly that tiny part has become the spokesperson for the entire fandom. And I do get annoyed at the fact many CA's follow that portion especially new fans because they have a huge following and that's the first they will see thus giving these portions huge platforms they don't deserve. Thus it looks like that's the consensus.

My hot take is all extremists should just be ignored altogether in these conversations bc they misrepresent a lot of the general consensus which is always more neutral in its takes. But as someone pointed out the extremists of any group are usually the most invested and they are the loudest and the ones we'll run into the most on any platform. That's just how fandom is.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. I just didn't want you to think I was generalizing all CAs so I wanted to clarify!

But I agree, all extremists should be ignored no matter what camp they're in and that goes beyond shipping, too because there are some really intense OG 'purists' that ... are... er... Well lol I can't think of a word to describe them but I know I don't like interacting with them. At the very least, those people don't really buy the games either and they just choose to ignore the compilation as a whole--which is their right. I'm cool w/ them so long as they stay within their own designated space and don't try to ruin the retrilogy experience for others who are enjoying it thus far.

Now, if only shippers could do the same.... But that's a pipe dream lol

If they keep the last hand reaching from OG in the third game, I will be done with any FF7 games. maybe even down with any FF games.

Really? Can I ask why you feel so strongly about it?

 

[GamerSkull]

I think with @null said is probably the best way to put it.

Anyone who maligns the other girl in the LTD debate is usually what I consider an extremist. And by malign, I mean that they intentionally mischaracterize them.