SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Stiggie]

I'm preaching to the choir a bit, I realise, but I just have to weigh in on the latest LTD deception doing the rounds: "all dates are equal, no romance is canon, you can pick who you like and it's part of the story and by design"

I can't stress enough how this talking point is actually a not-so-subtle act of subterfuge. It's essentially saying, ah, yes, maybe in your game Aerith loves Zack and Cloud loves Tifa, but in my game Cloud loves Aerith (and Tifa/Zack fade into obscurity) and that's just as valid! It's a roundabout way of arguing head-canon trumps actual canon, what you believe is more important than what the reality is.

Ultimately this "everyone wins" sentiment may come across as favourable to many, I see it oft upvoted on Reddit for example, it is nothing less than a way to write Tifa's entire character out of the narrative. Aerith has a role, she's the last of the Cetra, she has control of not one but two distinct ways of saving the entire planet from the disaster that is yet to come. Tifa cannot do this, all she can do is heal Cloud's broken mind, support him and stand by his side as his love interest.

Similarly, it removes everything Zack fought for, everything he continues to fight for, his purpose and motives. He already became a hero in Crisis Core, he's long over that, his last thoughts at the finale and his first thoughts in Remake were "I need to get back to Aerith" - Aerith's own story makes no sense if it's not coupled with her continued longing for Zack. Indeed, her entire arc with Cloud is based on the narrative that she feeds his SOLDIER fantasy with the bodyguard role in a desperate attempt to relive her lost romance. It's not some footnote or minor plot point that changes depending on one's actions. It's the story.

So too, the Gold Saucer dates are not an easter egg. One is not anymore "canon" than the other. Cloud is Cloud and his personality and interests don't change one way or another. I recommend everyone use the menu to watch all the GS dates and if at any point you think "hang on, that one must not be canon" then I suggest you're barking up the wrong tree on the story - because one, and only one, of the dates is unambiguously romantic.

As noted earlier, the dates are enlightening because they show how Cloud and co would react with each character in that given situation. I loved watching Barret step in to defend Cloud from the VR and give him relationship advice (careful observers will note the Tifa's Theme motif plays briefly here). Similarly, the devs are telling us that if you put Cloud and Tifa there he's going to kiss her, but put Cloud and Aerith there and he won't.

These things are not equal. It's being spelled out and if you can't see that then that's a you problem.

Well said. They don't take into account that regardless of "your choice" Clouds behavior throughout the games have to fit each date. These aren't multiple branching paths that stay separated, they separate and then immediately come back together into the same single story with non-optional scenes. And those non-optional scenes then need to make sense regardless of the path you took to get there. Cloud kissing Tifa but then going on to proclaim his love for Aerith? Sorry, does not fit. If you want to be able to write Cloud during non-optional scenes, he needs motivations and feelings. You can't write effectively for two clashing sets of motivations and feelings so the obvious solution to that is make sure that all branching paths fit the single set of motivations and feelings that Cloud has.
And that is what we see, not different versions of the story, but several events that showcase different aspects of the same Cloud.

 

[Rin]

Ooh I’m curious what’s different about it if you’re with Yuffie, I haven’t found any videos or streams where it isn’t either Cloud by himself, with Tifa, or with Aerith.

I’m curious if you get different dialogue as well when you talk to Red at Battle Square with Aerith, as with Tifa it’s only a quick bit about Red hiding from children who think he’s a mascot

With Yuffie she asks if they're on a date to annoy him lmao and then she encourages Yuffie to be chaotic which pisses Cloud off. So it's just the two of them conspiring together to make fun of him, which was great

 

[Empyrea]

Speaking of extreme shippers, Japanese CAs are harassing Japanese CT owners of fan sites to, I quote, eradicate them A lot of sites have already closed.

Because that would remove all traces of CT's existence... Not to mention that all that does is drive the more casual fans away. Way to shoot themselves in the foot.

I'm preaching to the choir a bit, I realise, but I just have to weigh in on the latest LTD deception doing the rounds: "all dates are equal, no romance is canon, you can pick who you like and it's part of the story and by design"

I can't stress enough how this talking point is actually a not-so-subtle act of subterfuge. It's essentially saying, ah, yes, maybe in your game Aerith loves Zack and Cloud loves Tifa, but in my game Cloud loves Aerith (and Tifa/Zack fade into obscurity) and that's just as valid! It's a roundabout way of arguing head-canon trumps actual canon, what you believe is more important than what the reality is.

Ultimately this "everyone wins" sentiment may come across as favourable to many, I see it oft upvoted on Reddit for example, it is nothing less than a way to write Tifa's entire character out of the narrative. Aerith has a role, she's the last of the Cetra, she has control of not one but two distinct ways of saving the entire planet from the disaster that is yet to come. Tifa cannot do this, all she can do is heal Cloud's broken mind, support him and stand by his side as his love interest.

Similarly, it removes everything Zack fought for, everything he continues to fight for, his purpose and motives. He already became a hero in Crisis Core, he's long over that, his last thoughts at the finale and his first thoughts in Remake were "I need to get back to Aerith" - Aerith's own story makes no sense if it's not coupled with her continued longing for Zack. Indeed, her entire arc with Cloud is based on the narrative that she feeds his SOLDIER fantasy with the bodyguard role in a desperate attempt to relive her lost romance. It's not some footnote or minor plot point that changes depending on one's actions. It's the story.

So too, the Gold Saucer dates are not an easter egg. One is not anymore "canon" than the other. Cloud is Cloud and his personality and interests don't change one way or another. I recommend everyone use the menu to watch all the GS dates and if at any point you think "hang on, that one must not be canon" then I suggest you're barking up the wrong tree on the story - because one, and only one, of the dates is unambiguously romantic.

As noted earlier, the dates are enlightening because they show how Cloud and co would react with each character in that given situation. I loved watching Barret step in to defend Cloud from the VR and give him relationship advice (careful observers will note the Tifa's Theme motif plays briefly here) For the girls, the devs are telling us that if you put Cloud and Tifa there he's going to kiss her, but put Cloud and Aerith there and he won't.

These things are not equal. It's being spelled out and if you can't see that then that's a you problem.

What they're saying works in stuff like...Persona and some VNs. Everyone can win because it affects the plot a grand total of zero. Otherwise, they're just treating FF7 like a CYOA game, which it pointedly isn't. They may as well just say they hate how the narrative didn't support their interpretation and, by extension, they don't really like FF7's story. Would be better, really. I know I've liked playing games because the gameplay is a ton of fun while simultaneously wanting to throttle the writers off a cliff for the story cough*Persona 4 and 5*cough.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Speaking of extreme shippers, Japanese CAs are harassing Japanese CT owners of fan sites to, I quote, eradicate them A lot of sites have already closed.

Like, for real? What is wrong with these people? That isn’t going to be a sustainable tactic for long surely, cause the more people who play the game and see how it plays out, the more people there’ll be who would see something like that happen and call them out on it.

No one, regardless of shipping who, should be harassed into closing down their fansite. That is so depressing, and the ones who are harassing owners of these fansites should be deeply ashamed of themselves for acting out in such a way that says to me they are likely seething with anger at Rebirth’s content not going in their favour, and are taking out their misplaced anger at those who are probably happy with Rebirth and celebrating.

Just so sad to see smh

Just have to hope these types of “fans” are in the minority, and that the owners of those fansites can reopen them again once the dust settles, that or the ones harassing them get a legal warning to stop their harassment of those owners.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Well I hope they don't buy SE's marketing spin next time, I should be more vigilant too.

 

[Rin]

We all should, really. It's good to be critical of the way a company is trying to sell things to us--video games or not.
I work as a copywriter, so my job is to craft up the magic words and pair them with nice visuals that'll make someone want to buy things. For that reason, I'm heavily critical of ads but most people aren't because they don't have to be and they don't know or understand the marketing process. I wouldn't expect them to, but it's always good to have a healthy dose of skepticism toward anything or anyone asking for your $.

 

[Hellenic]

Compare and Contrast to FF8 and 10 which were very much in the mold of a love story, and FF9 which was not though has a few romances in it.

Funnily enough the romance in FF7 and 9 i enjoy so much more than 8 where it's supposed to be the center stage even. There's just something more special in how they build it up in 7 and 9 that appeals to me more. Doesn't help that i didn't really like the Squall and Rinoa dynamic a whole lot.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm preaching to the choir a bit, I realise, but I just have to weigh in on the latest LTD deception doing the rounds: "all dates are equal, no romance is canon, you can pick who you like and it's part of the story and by design"

I can't stress enough how this talking point is actually a not-so-subtle act of subterfuge. It's essentially saying, ah, yes, maybe in your game Aerith loves Zack and Cloud loves Tifa, but in my game Cloud loves Aerith (and Tifa/Zack fade into obscurity) and that's just as valid! It's a roundabout way of arguing head-canon trumps actual canon, what you believe is more important than what the reality is.

Ultimately this "everyone wins" sentiment may come across as favourable to many, I see it oft upvoted on Reddit for example, it is nothing less than a way to write Tifa's entire character out of the narrative. Aerith has a role, she's the last of the Cetra, she has control of not one but two distinct ways of saving the entire planet from the disaster that is yet to come. Tifa cannot do this, all she can do is heal Cloud's broken mind, support him and stand by his side as his love interest.

Similarly, it removes everything Zack fought for, everything he continues to fight for, his purpose and motives. He already became a hero in Crisis Core, he's long over that, his last thoughts at the finale and his first thoughts in Remake were "I need to get back to Aerith" - Aerith's own story makes no sense if it's not coupled with her continued longing for Zack. Indeed, her entire arc with Cloud is based on the narrative that she feeds his SOLDIER fantasy with the bodyguard role in a desperate attempt to relive her lost romance. It's not some footnote or minor plot point that changes depending on one's actions. It's the story.

So too, the Gold Saucer dates are not an easter egg. One is not anymore "canon" than the other. Cloud is Cloud and his personality and interests don't change one way or another. I recommend everyone use the menu to watch all the GS dates and if at any point you think "hang on, that one must not be canon" then I suggest you're barking up the wrong tree on the story - because one, and only one, of the dates is unambiguously romantic.

As noted earlier, the dates are enlightening because they show how Cloud and co would react with each character in that given situation. I loved watching Barret step in to defend Cloud from the VR and give him relationship advice (careful observers will note the Tifa's Theme motif plays briefly here) For the girls, the devs are telling us that if you put Cloud and Tifa there he's going to kiss her, but put Cloud and Aerith there and he won't.

These things are not equal. It's being spelled out and if you can't see that then that's a you problem.

The dates being canon or not and a romance being canon or not are in fact two entirely different concepts. Once again, you the player HAVE NO SAY about Cloud's emotions, merely his responses to people which affects how they feel about him over the course of the game, and even then that's more about closeness than like/ dislike. This isn't an Otome and you aren't filling up a love meter.

So even if none of the dates are canon, each of them has to reflect Cloud himself as he exists during the rest of the game. And that's a Cloud who wanted to become special to Tifa, who has tried to kiss Tifa already during the course of the game. Each of them has to fit within the greater narrative, has to be consistent with it, so even though who Cloud goes with in those situations isn't set in stone, the way he would react in each of those situations is. Cloud will always be willing to kiss Tifa without direct prompting and be willing to hold Aerith's hand after she asks him to let her pretend, basically.

 

[Hellenic]

Speaking of extreme shippers, Japanese CAs are harassing Japanese CT owners of fan sites to, I quote, eradicate them A lot of sites have already closed.

Imagine being this freaking petty over your fictional ship. Why are some people like this?

 

[Eerie]

Akira, the singer for Midgar Blues, made a come back with another song referring to CT and I believe the CT date as well as the game’s ending and maybe until the LS scene - which I have always considered as a love confession so it’d fit. It’s the one called Golden Spark

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm preaching to the choir a bit, I realise, but I just have to weigh in on the latest LTD deception doing the rounds: "all dates are equal, no romance is canon, you can pick who you like and it's part of the story and by design"

I can't stress enough how this talking point is actually a not-so-subtle act of subterfuge. It's essentially saying, ah, yes, maybe in your game Aerith loves Zack and Cloud loves Tifa, but in my game Cloud loves Aerith (and Tifa/Zack fade into obscurity) and that's just as valid! It's a roundabout way of arguing head-canon trumps actual canon, what you believe is more important than what the reality is.

Ultimately this "everyone wins" sentiment may come across as favourable to many, I see it oft upvoted on Reddit for example, it is nothing less than a way to write Tifa's entire character out of the narrative. Aerith has a role, she's the last of the Cetra, she has control of not one but two distinct ways of saving the entire planet from the disaster that is yet to come. Tifa cannot do this, all she can do is heal Cloud's broken mind, support him and stand by his side as his love interest.

Similarly, it removes everything Zack fought for, everything he continues to fight for, his purpose and motives. He already became a hero in Crisis Core, he's long over that, his last thoughts at the finale and his first thoughts in Remake were "I need to get back to Aerith" - Aerith's own story makes no sense if it's not coupled with her continued longing for Zack. Indeed, her entire arc with Cloud is based on the narrative that she feeds his SOLDIER fantasy with the bodyguard role in a desperate attempt to relive her lost romance. It's not some footnote or minor plot point that changes depending on one's actions. It's the story.

So too, the Gold Saucer dates are not an easter egg. One is not anymore "canon" than the other. Cloud is Cloud and his personality and interests don't change one way or another. I recommend everyone use the menu to watch all the GS dates and if at any point you think "hang on, that one must not be canon" then I suggest you're barking up the wrong tree on the story - because one, and only one, of the dates is unambiguously romantic.

As noted earlier, the dates are enlightening because they show how Cloud and co would react with each character in that given situation. I loved watching Barret step in to defend Cloud from the VR and give him relationship advice (careful observers will note the Tifa's Theme motif plays briefly here) For the girls, the devs are telling us that if you put Cloud and Tifa there he's going to kiss her, but put Cloud and Aerith there and he won't.

These things are not equal. It's being spelled out and if you can't see that then that's a you problem.

Yeah, this isn’t Persona. Cloud is a set character, his choice in romance is his choice not ours.

But I gotta say, if it is up to the player why exactly is it that Cloud doesn’t kiss all of them then?

 

[Stiggie]

I've been seeing this quote floating around from the new cloud short story, can anyone confirm and perhaps tell me where I can read it?

 

[GamerSkull]

I've been seeing this quote floating around from the new cloud short story, can anyone confirm and perhaps tell me where I can read it?

Yes, the short story does indeed double down on Cloud joining SOLDIER to be special to Tifa. I read it by going to X and seeing that Shinra Archeology Department tweeted out a translation.

Let me see if I can find a link.

@Stiggie

Two Thousand Gil to Become a Hero - Rebirth World Preview (English)

docs.google.com

 

[Eerie]

I've been seeing this quote floating around from the new cloud short story, can anyone confirm and perhaps tell me where I can read it?

That one is the translation that we did with Peko, a friend of hers, FACTS and I.

 

[starcape91]

Akira, the singer for Midgar Blues, made a come back with another song referring to CT and I believe the CT date as well as the game’s ending and maybe until the LS scene - which I have always considered as a love confession so it’d fit. It’s the one called Golden Spark

Yesssss. I just saw this last night. I think the lyrics are about: the water tower promise, some angst about when Cloud came back to Nibelheim and hid from Tifa, the Gold Saucer date, the Lifestream and Under the Highwind.

 

[LNK]

Plus he'll say the same thing if you wander the GS alone without a partner and bump into her. The convo doesn't change much, so we can't really read it as true jealousy on either of their parts.

Her dialogue is different if you're with Yuffie, though which I thought was interesting cause Tifa's doesn't change at all.

I wandered alone. How'd people get a partner?

 

[Stiggie]

I wandered alone. How'd people get a partner?

I was wondering the opposite, didn't even realise it was possible to not get a partner

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I wandered alone. How'd people get a partner?

I think you need the emojis to be at least blue by that point in order to have a partner for the initial visit to the Gold Saucer.

I had Yuffie at dark green (two lines in the circle), Barret and Aerith at light green (three lines), and Tifa and Red at blue (four lines, so not maxed out yet) and I ended up getting Tifa.

 

[LNK]

I think you need the emojis to be at least blue by that point in order to have a partner for the initial visit to the Gold Saucer.

I had Yuffie at dark green (two lines in the circle), Barret and Aerith at light green (three lines), and Tifa and Red at blue (four lines, so not maxed out yet) and I ended up getting Tifa.

That's weird then. Red was at blue. Everyone else was green

 

[starcape91]

I didn't realize you could have no one either. I texted my brother when he was in Chapter 8: "Who came to your door!?" He said: "...No one?" lol sad

 

[Eerie]

I've been seeing this quote floating around from the new cloud short story, can anyone confirm and perhaps tell me where I can read it?

2,000 Gil to Becoming a Hero | Ffvii Stories 1 Here found the link for you Peko's friend did an amazing job (her Japanese husband told her to translate more lol and she was like hell NO xD).

I was wondering the opposite, didn't even realise it was possible to not get a partner

In chapter 8, you have a partner only if it's one of the girls.

Edit:

Yesssss. I just saw this last night. I think the lyrics are about: the water tower promise, some angst about when Cloud came back to Nibelheim and hid from Tifa, the Gold Saucer date, the Lifestream and Under the Highwind.

I think the lyrics fit nicely Cloud remembering the gondola date. But the thing is, there is a part that reminds me of the NC scene, which is probably referenced and then in the Lifestream alone, wanting to meet Tifa.

 

[Hellenic]

Akira, the singer for Midgar Blues, made a come back with another song referring to CT and I believe the CT date as well as the game’s ending and maybe until the LS scene - which I have always considered as a love confession so it’d fit. It’s the one called Golden Spark

I missed all this stuff, so i gotta go and check them out on my hard playthrough.

 

[GamerSkull]

Where is this new song?

 

[Rin]

That's weird then. Red was at blue. Everyone else was green

It's because Red and Barret won't join you in chapter 8! So if Red is your highest, you'll be alone. I'm on NG+ and I chose red to be my companion, he does knock on the door but he leaves before you open it lol you can see him get into the elevator

 

[Eerie]

I missed all this stuff, so i gotta go and check them out on my hard playthrough.

He's in Kalm when you return, and his story still mirrors Cloud's story lol.

Where is this new song?

It's in game! In Kalm when you return after fleeing.