SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[billy22]

Finished the game at last. NGL you'd think Tifa was the one who wanted to fuck Aerith the way it's portrayed in the final cutscene; camera is centered on her when she's leaning over Aerith's corpse and she's the last person to leave the pond with her face covered in tears. She cries more than anyone else over it.

General thoughts on stuff that may not have been brought up:

• Game did feel less fanservicey than it did in Remake towards Tifa. In Remake the game was finding all sorts of dumb reasons to throw her into Cloud's arms, this game didn't do that much at all. Most of the "touching" involved holding each other's hands, or shoulder, or back, when they reassure each other, such as Gongaga or Nibelheim.
• Actually, in general Rebirth felt like it had less fanservice than Remake- Cloud holding hands with Aerith felt sweet and symbolic to the nature of "gone but not forgotten" theme that AC plays with, but it didn't feel forced. Yuffie does grab onto Cloud's arm a lot when she gets scared which were kind of cute I suppose.
• A little disappointed that all dates have an equal chance, I feel like Tifa and Aerith should have gotten a significant advantage over the others. Everyone has the same number of quests and dialogue options that give the same number of affection points...

Thoughts on dialogue options/dates/side quests

• I noticed that you can make Cloud more an asshole towards Aerith in some dialogue options, but that doesn't appear to be the case with Tifa? For example in Cosmo Canyon if you choose "stop her" with Aerith's speech Cloud practically screams at her to shut up. My god I cringed so hard when he did that (I chose it by accident). Whereas with Tifa all you can really do is choose indifference in her options- for example, when she asks you what food you like "I'd like pot roast" is the best option but "Soup I guess" is the worst. I'm always skeptical about putting too much emphasis on these gameplay mechanics, because it's kind of faux argument, but...
• I noticed some people were claiming Cloud was being a dick to Aerith in their "dates," but I don't see it. Aerith is more upfront, Cloud has to be more direct with her as a result. Outside of dick-ish dialogue choices he was fine.
• None of the side quests with Tifa or Aerith felt especially 'shippy to me. He talks to both of them, and he acts fairly neutral to me, like he's still a bit of a stick in the mud. I guess I liked Aerith's CC quest a bit in that regard.

As for those "dates" with Aerith, outside of the one in the Saucer; She has quite a bit of them-

• Kalm- they walk up to the tower, Aerith points out where Midgar is. Aerith then asks if something happened between Cloud and Tifa. Tells Cloud not to take her for granted. Shinra immediately shows up after the question, "date" ends and the party has to leave town.
• Costa del Sol- Cloud takes Aerith around the shops/games and plays various mini-games. Regardless of whether you win or not the questgivers (a group of models) will make 'shippy comments about how Cloud is doing such a good job on the date. The end of the date is him and Aerith going to the beach on chocobos looking for shells. It was a fine date overall but Cloud was indifferent towards the whole experience, he barely talks and gives boring answers, which Aerith cutely points out and modestly grumbles at.
• Cosmo Canyon- This was my favorite one with Aerith. They go around photographing stars, it was really sweet. At one point you can even make Cloud sneak a picture of Aerith when she isn't looking. It was cute, even if not directly romantic I liked it. The quest as a whole was a pain to find the locations though.
• Nibelheim Tower- Cloud goes up to the tower, sits next to Aerith. He points out to her where all the houses were. Aerith asks if he was up there as a kid, hoping Tifa would wave from her window. This is a dialogue choice where you can again make Cloud give a dick reply, by saying "That's not funny" which really annoys Aerith. Alternatively you can agree with her for the highest affection gain. Nothing more romantic than talking about another woman on a date.
• Sector 5 dream- This one I got the friendzone convo, but I don't really care about that, what I found more bothersome was every shop I went to, the shop owners force Cloud to buy a specific item instead of what you choose. And then the picture pose...did I choose the wrong pose, or does the scene change based on affection level with Aerith? Because the photographer said Cloud/Aerith didn't look like they were on a date, it looked like they were heading to funeral, which was utterly depressing to think about.

So yeah, Cloud does hang out with Aerith a lot, but none of them felt any more 'shippy than the moments he's with Tifa, whether it's Gongaga or Nibelheim. Funnily enough I liked the Cosmo Canyon date with Aerith better than the GS one, which felt more bittersweet than romantic. What is amusing is that if you include the GS date, in half of them Tifa gets brought up in their conversation...

In any case, we can micro-analyze all the little stuff as much as we want. In the end I'm not especially fond trying to decipher eye movement or the way characters are centered on the screen, or the nanoseconds that Cloud spends looking at other characters. That crap is way to subjective for me, I rarely find it convincing and I doubt anyone else does either. I care about the hard, concrete stuff that can't be danced around with the good ol' "interpretation" excuse. Which would be the kiss.

My overall thoughts haven't changed much after playing the game then when I did when I read the spoilers. I keep coming back to the date kiss being the definitive thing that can't be danced around- if Square really wanted the romance to be "ambiguous" or "up to interpretation/player choice" they'd be giving the player the option to confess/kiss Aerith in the game she dies in, but Cloud- or rather, Square- has no interest in allowing Cloud to do so, with any girl other than Tifa.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

The tension between Aerith finally finding the "family" (or family of friends) she's been searching for her entire life vs. her duty as a Cetra (the very thing that made it so difficult for her to find this in the first place) meaning that their time together will have to be cut short is already such fertile ground for character on its own. It's a damn shame the game gave this part of her character the short shrift to focus on her complicated feelings for Zack/Cloud. Especially since the game left very little to "debate" re: the LTD, her relationship with Cloud doesn't have the same narrative heft compared to his with Tifa. So why spend so much time on that vs. the other (honestly more interesting) aspects of her character?

- I know it was in TOTP but I havent got my copy yet online i only know about Tifa. But yeah in rebirth I wished it was shown how complicated her childhood were. Although a bit is actually shown in Remake ( history with her mother and train graveyard when she is taked by Eligor)

 

[LNK]

Bear in mind I'm not defending BB, they're still a goal post moving, strawman building, teal deer herding, walking bad faith argument Just with less actual screaming insults and such.

Also insanehobbit, that whole post? Win.

Oh, I know you're not. I know there's levels to it. I can imagine things were worse back then, it actually makes sense it would be. Especially when the OG was the only real frame of reference. I'm sure Maiden muddied the waters a ton, even though that was never meant as canon

 

[Stiggie]

They really failed at writing Aerith in this game for me personally. They did a lot of tell not show which they did not do with other characters. They said she was angry at Hojo but the one time we saw it she let him go and it was never talked about again. In Nibelhiem she says she is lonely but unless you read traces, this aspect of her character is rarely shown. Which makes the conversation seem out of place when its Cloud dealing with something very traumatic. She talks about how hard it is being a Cetra but the game barely expands on this and you would think that after being insulted by the GI they would let her character learn more about her heritage as motivation but sadly no. The worst thing for me, though, was not showing her bond with the rest of the party and there is no excuse Since Yuffie arguably one of the best characters in Rebirth, has some of the most fun dyamics that are all different with the rest of the cast, and she isn't even in the party at the start. I wanted more moments like her trial which was amazing but they easily could have made her Bond with Barret over wanting to help the planet.

Yeah, same for me, I couldn't really put my finger on why, but a lot of the emotional scenes with Aerith felt very jarring to me. Like the game went "oh shit, we have to give Aerith some more meaningful emotional scenes otherwise people might forget Aerith matters". I think the reason might be that the scenes tend to clash with how Aerith usually comes across (spiteful vs happy and forgiving), which makes sense but that doesn't make them feel less out of place. The scene on the beach was where I realized this. Both Tifa and Aerith suddenly make the scene deep and emotional, but with Tifa it always feels natural, while with Aerith I thought "WOW AERITH! Why are we suddenly talking about our deep hatred for Hojo?". And I think the reason might be that with Tifa we're constantly exploring those emotions so if feels like we're addressing the emotions that we were already seeing, but with Aerith it felt like it came from nowhere. And again....I kinda feel like those sorts of scenes would have worked better in a scene where we see Aerith confiding in Tifa.

A little disappointed that all dates have an equal chance, I feel like Tifa and Aerith should have gotten a significant advantage over the others. Everyone has the same number of quests and dialogue options that give the same number of affection points...

I'm not. When Aerith and Tifa are elevated over the others Aerith and Tifa get equated. Now it's much clearer that all party members matter, and all bonds matter, and that this is not a question of "a few friend dates vs 2 real dates", but rather a series of interactions that are each equally important and unique.

I noticed that you can make Cloud more an asshole towards Aerith in some dialogue options, but that doesn't appear to be the case with Tifa? For example in Cosmo Canyon if you choose "stop her" with Aerith's speech Cloud practically screams at her to shut up. My god I cringed so hard when he did that (I chose it by accident). Whereas with Tifa all you can really do is choose indifference in her options- for example, when she asks you what food you like "I'd like pot roast" is the best option but "Soup I guess" is the worst. I'm always skeptical about putting too much emphasis on these gameplay mechanics, because it's kind of faux argument, but...

Yeah, the same thing was true in Remake, and I was wondering when I started playing whether the same thing would apply to Rebirth. the fact that it was is honestly one of the more telling aspects of this entire thing imo.

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, same for me, I couldn't really put my finger on why, but a lot of the emotional scenes with Aerith felt very jarring to me. Like the game went "oh shit, we have to give Aerith some more meaningful emotional scenes otherwise people might forget Aerith matters". I think the reason might be that the scenes tend to clash with how Aerith usually comes across (spiteful vs happy and forgiving), which makes sense but that doesn't make them feel less out of place. The scene on the beach was where I realized this. Both Tifa and Aerith suddenly make the scene deep and emotional, but with Tifa it always feels natural, while with Aerith I thought "WOW AERITH! Why are we suddenly talking about our deep hatred for Hojo?". And I think the reason might be that with Tifa we're constantly exploring those emotions so if feels like we're addressing the emotions that we were already seeing, but with Aerith it felt like it came from nowhere. And again....I kinda feel like those sorts of scenes would have worked better in a scene where we see Aerith confiding in Tifa.


I'm not. When Aerith and Tifa are elevated over the others Aerith and Tifa get equated. Now it's much clearer that all party members matter, and all bonds matter, and that this is not a question of "a few friend dates vs 2 real dates", but rather a series of interactions that are each equally important and unique.




Yeah, the same thing was true in Remake, and I was wondering when I started playing whether the same thing would apply to Rebirth. the fact that it was is honestly one of the more telling aspects of this entire thing imo.

To be fair, it’s the same in OG. I can’t think of any instance where Cloud can be mean to Tifa.

But he can call Aerith the slum drink, emphasize that Tifa is in fact his girlfriend, when Marlene tells him Aerith may be interested you can have Cloud say he doesn’t know, etc.

There are options that certainly affect Tifa negatively but the worst came off as neutral.

But I could be misremembering.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

The entire party dynamic is done really well in Rebirth, which was pretty crucial since the first 6 chapters of the game is basically just Jersey Shore Final Fantasy Family Vacation. Barret and Yuffie, especially, are just so well-integrated with everyone, and their dynamics with each and every other individual party member are so clear.

Unfortunately (out of the human party members at least), I found Aerith's relationships with everyone else were the least distinct, which is a real shame. I thought it was odd for her to comment on how jealous she was that Cloud and Tifa were childhood friends after the Kalm Flashback and in fake!Nibelheim -- like you're jealous that they went through unspeakable trauma together? But then I realized, she's also been through unspeakable trauma as a child and she had no one to confide in/commiserate with at all, until she met Zack.

Her loneliness is huge part of a her character, so the whole found family aspect of the game should have hit the hardest for someone like her. Which I think was the intent, given her speech in Cosmo Canyon, but I wish the game had actually bothered showing us.

I haven’t even gotten to Cosmo Canyon yet, and I’d argue already from what I’ve seen, that Red also is very well integrated with everyone. It’s arguably more subtle than Barret and Yuffie’s, as obviously they have to keep a lid on a lot of Red’s character and personality until the reveal in Chapter 10, but there are several key moments where it’s very easy to identify why Red is choosing to follow this party, why he reacts this way to what that character said, and why he is able to slowly come out of his shell, several moments giving key insight as to his true identity.

There’s also a notable difference in his behaviour when with Cloud and Barret, and when he is with Tifa and Aerith. Yuffie is also able to bring out a different side in Red, which is wonderful to see, and again a very clever clue as to his true personality.

His relationships to everyone already feel so distinct to me, a benefit from his time already spent getting to know them from Remake, but they really enriched his bonds with them in Rebirth. I can’t help but feel it’s because the developers and writers have planned a bigger role for him in Part 3. With Aerith no longer in the party, I feel Red’s significance will likely increase, as a guardian and empath of the planet.

 

[Rin]

Sector 5 dream- This one I got the friendzone convo, but I don't really care about that, what I found more bothersome was every shop I went to, the shop owners force Cloud to buy a specific item instead of what you choose. And then the picture pose...did I choose the wrong pose, or does the scene change based on affection level with Aerith? Because the photographer said Cloud/Aerith didn't look like they were on a date, it looked like they were heading to funeral, which was utterly depressing to think about.

It doesn't matter which pose you choose, they'll reject Cloud/Aerith as a couple anyway, so don't worry you didn't do anything wrong. This is just Aerith's subconscious telling her that Cloud is the wrong man for her, basically.

 

[Ryushikaze]

As far as I know, there aren't. Certainly not any where they're teasing him about his potential romantic feelings for her (You do have Red telling Cloud he needs to protect Aerith and Zack asking him to save Aerith, but uhh...oops). Whereas in the OG there was at the very least the Barret date where he tells Cloud to choose one (and makes it weird about Marlene), whereas now their bro-date is a very sweet and I guess more ambiguous re: who Barret is talking about.

Meanwhile, re: Cloud's feelings for Tifa, you have this side quest with Yuffie (which happens almost immediately after she joins the party, so it's hilarious how quickly she clocks him), Yuffie and Cait Sith whispering for them to kiss outside the door in Gongaga, Yuffie bringing up Tifa's crush on Cloud/asking if he liked her too in Yuffie's own GS date, oh and Aerith teasing him about wanting little Tifa to wave at him when he was a kid. They're really not being subtle at all, lol.
In any case, can't wait for the part 3 Yuffie vs. Marle showdown to see who's the biggest in-universe shipper

Pre-Rebirth, one could argue there were few explicitly, unambiguously romantic scenes in general (like I guess the Lifestream and Highwind scenes are written to be ambiguous enough to go over the heads of some children at least, lol), and Cloud is kinda just clueless/unresponsive in this part of the OG's story, so I guess I can see how people could still argue we don't know his feelings either way.

Rebirth changes that completely. If someone is still legitimately confused as to who Cloud's love interest is supposed to be and wants to find the answer in good faith, then they have to look at every scene, optional or not, to get the full context for his character.

The Tifa GS date is a gamechanger, not just because he kisses her, but because it shows us exactly how Cloud would react if a woman he is romantically interested in expressed her romantic interest in him: he confirms his feelings with words and actions.

This is now the lens through which we have to view his interactions with every other person who expresses their romantic interest in him. Before, you could argue, well Cloud deflecting, "pretending" to be annoyed is just him being shy/clueless.

Well, with Tifa, he's clearly not clueless. Tifa's "confession" in Rebirth is arguably even more ambiguous than it was in the OG. She phrases it in such a way that he could deflect/let her down easy if he doesn't feel the same, but he understands what she's saying immediately. It takes less time for Cloud to extend his hand and verbally confirm his feelings than it does for Tifa to process what's happening and take his hand.

As for being shy -- again, in Tifa's date, we see what Cloud being shy around someone who he's romantically interested in actually looks like. He does not deflect/put an awkward end to conversations, instead he actively engages while stealing glances/staring at her, but is unable to maintain eye contact when he's caught, lol.

On the other hand, Rebirth also has Cloud verbally confirming that his relationship with Jessie wasn't romantic. So his reactions in Remake to her overt advances weren't him secretly reciprocating her feelings. Now, does that dynamic remind us of his relationship with someone else?

Rebirth gives us all of that before we even get to the Yuffie of it all. Before, we had a bunch of people commenting on Cloud/Tifa's closeness/childhood friendship, in an implied but not unambiguously romantic way. Rebirth basically has Yuffie barging in every other chapter screaming, "Hey, Cloud, do you have a big fat crush on Tifa???" just in case some people still don't get it.

That is what I thought, I just wanted to double check. I've been trying to be comprehensive, but I can't be sure I've seen everything.

The current cope with this, however, is that this is all Soldier Cloud and Aerith draws out the Real Cloud.

Yes, an inverse of the OG. Yes, the Ultimania says different but it is being ignored.

I think the fundamental issue at the heart of the matter is that shippers on the other side likely wish Tifa and Aerith’s roles were swapped. The portion of Cloud’s arc that regards Tifa is hard to square away, especially after the Northern Cave. Since Cloud is at the height of his identity issues at the moment, the idea that his interaction with Tifa in Rebirth could just be his SOLDIER persona coming out is something that can be clung to.

It's going to become even harder to ignore/ more blatantly twisted once we get to Part 3, I think.

The worst thing about the LTD to me has always been how much attention it takes from other character relationships. You can't appreciate Barret's dad-ass energy fully if you're forcing him and Tifa together to keep Tifa away from Cloud. You can't appreciate Aerith's incredible success at socializing the shy, scared stray dog Cloud has become fully if you just nitpick it for romance. I've seen the entire rest of the party fully marginalized or ignored save for facetious claims that they back up Clerith in some way. And most damning to me is how it overshadows Tifa and Aerith's stunning friendship. It was bad enough in the OG, but after RE and RE2

I want a version of Resident Evil 1 and 2 with Aerith and Tifa as the playable characters. Barret can be Barry. Yuffie can be Rebecca. Sephiroth can be Wesker. Cloud can be the boulder from RE5 (Chris's one true love, don't you know).

Jeez, not Blankbeat again

Ah, BB. I wonder if I still live rent free in that noggin.

@LNK Well Cloud and Tifa are rural mountain folk like all Nibelheimians... Nibelians? Nibelheimers? Fuck it, they're hillbillies

Also, BlankBeat was actually very tame, trust me. The Cleriths of yore would have considered them borderline Cloti tolerant

BB's worst sin is gish galloping and basically just reciting self created tracts rather than arguing. Her level of vitriol does not even hold a candle to the shit that was slung on both sides mind from over a decade ago. She's more passive aggressive than anything.

It doesn't matter which pose you choose, they'll reject Cloud/Aerith as a couple anyway, so don't worry you didn't do anything wrong. This is just Aerith's subconscious telling her that Cloud is the wrong man for her, basically.

Yeah, I suspect the dream date is as close to literally in Aerith or "Aerift" as I am now keen to call her's mind as possible and she's emphasizing to herself. "Don't get your hopes up, it won't work for Reasons A-Zack.

 

[Shadowfox]

People really shouldn’t jump to conclusions based on trailers alone. They are meant to be baity in order to sell copies. This happens with all franchises, not just this one.

Reminds of back in the early 2000s when the trailer for Advent Children had come out. There was a thread about in on IGN, where someone was boldly claiming that, based on the shot of Cloud and Aerith standing back to back in the trailer, AC was going to have Cloud resurrecting her, whereupon she would save the world and the movie would end with Cloud & Aerith going off to their happily ever after. I'd always thought that that was a supremely impressive act of fanfiction based on, like, 2 seconds of a scene from a movie trailer.

Also, I’m starting to dread thinking what shipping must have been like without the Compilation. When it was only the OG.

In my experience... as bad as it is now with the extreme CAs? It was even worse back then, as the extreme and vocal CAs were in even larger numbers and were almost everywhere FFVII had a presence: casual gaming forums, fanfiction, fanart. There were a lot of times when I'd gone into an FFVII discussion thread and I'd quickly exit because any talk about shipping would just devolve into mudslinging at Tifa. Some of it was straight up gross and predatory.

A lot of my playtime is me just taking my time soaking up a lot of the new visuals and details in the open world region, I’m loving it

That and trying to get S rank on the piano

AND beating Jules shakes fist

The difficulty spike on Barret's Theme caught me completely off guard lol. At least I finally managed to beat Jules (by 1 point!) yesterday.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I want a version of Resident Evil 1 and 2 with Aerith and Tifa as the playable characters. Barret can be Barry. Yuffie can be Rebecca. Sephiroth can be Wesker. Cloud can be the boulder from RE5 (Chris's one true love, don't you know).

NGL, I'd play that. But if Yuffie is Rebecca, then in my heart Vinnie gets to be Billy FUCKIN' Cohen in a version of RE0 you didn't ask for.

Ah, BB. I wonder if I still live rent free in that noggin.

I would not be surprised in the slightest to find they mutter your name while tooth grinding. Better yet, I wanna see a full on shonen rival confrontation with you two like...

BB: Ryushkaasaazeeeee!!!!!

Ryu: Meh.

BB's worst sin is gish galloping and basically just reciting self created tracts rather than arguing. Her level of vitriol does not even hold a candle to the shit that was slung on both sides mind from over a decade ago. She's more passive aggressive than anything.

^This, especially the bolded bit. Back in the laugh or scream days of, say... the jello shots thread? The vocal Cleriths back then could do passive aggressive, but tended to prefer outright aggressive.

Nowadays I feel sorta bad for them, they're missing so much by hyper-fixating on this one aspect of a whole god-damned story. At it's heart, FFVII has never been a love story. It contains romance, but is never sincerely defined by it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

So, watched the Loveless variations. What's especially of note is the declaration of love that defeats Cosplay Barret, Cloud interacts with the three ladies slightly differently. Aerith and Yuffie he lets them walk into the twirl, do their own thing. Tifa he grabs and pulls and also, she is down for that. The differences in how they prortray Rosa. Obvious Yuffie is very much "Yuffie playing Yuffie playing Rosa" but the lines each gives as Rosa are also really well crafted for showing off each personality. Tifa is taking it seriously, but is downplaying herself, attributing her rescue to the will of the goddess, for example. Aerith is serious but very dramatic, she's enjoying the play acting and losing herself in being someone else. Yuffie is enjoying the attention and just winging it for the most part.

The variations for ease of reference.

What's most telling is Aerith's IMO. She's play acting. She's a little off, but her heart's in it.
That's not just her for Loveless, that's her for the entire game. She's play acting as the girl she was before Aerift gave Ourfit special knowledge, to distract herself from the incredibly foreboding that she barely remembers but knows will come to pass.

NGL, I'd play that. But if Yuffie is Rebecca, then in my heart Vinnie gets to be Billy FUCKIN' Cohen in a version of RE0 you didn't ask for.

Deal.

I would not be surprised in the slightest to find they mutter your name while tooth grinding. Better yet, I wanna see a full on shonen rival confrontation with you two like...

BB: Ryushkaasaazeeeee!!!!!

Ryu: Meh.

That sort of happened awhile back.

^This, especially the bolded bit. Back in the laugh or scream days of, say... the jello shots thread? The vocal Cleriths back then could do passive aggressive, but tended to prefer outright aggressive.

Nowadays I feel sorta bad for them, they're missing so much by hyper-fixating on this one aspect of a whole god-damned story. At it's heart, FFVII has never been a love story. It contains romance, but is never sincerely defined by it.

Compare and Contrast to FF8 and 10 which were very much in the mold of a love story, and FF9 which was not though has a few romances in it.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

So I'm in Corel Prison now and I had Tifa's ch 8 tour date. And basically whoever said Aerith is jealous here of the date... As I had seen being said on Twitter so that is what I expected... Yeah I don't know where they're looking because I don't see it. She is commenting on being jealous of not having a person to go around the park with. But then suggests making a friend in the GS to hang out with before she tells them to enjoy their date. It's cute how Cloud stops her and Tifa agrees so she decides she will just hang with Red instead. They look out for her and she listens to their advice.

I saw Tifa too basically isn't jealous when Cloud takes Aerith on the date.

So basically I notice the devs really seem to have gotten rid of the OG jealousy and love rival thing.

That's really nice. I am so far appreciative of how Aerith and Tifa's friendship is being handled. Tho yes I do wish there was more talking on screen between them.

They do seem to be touching on TOTP a lot with Aerith. A lot of her conversations so far have been how she didn't have true friends growing up and her feelings on loneliness I just realized that. She touches on it several times.

 

[LNK]

Why are we suddenly talking about our deep hatred for Hojo?". And I think the reason might be that with Tifa we're constantly exploring those emotions so if feels like we're addressing the emotions that we were already seeing, but with Aerith it felt like it came from nowhere. And again....I kinda feel like those sorts of scenes would have worked better in a scene where we see Aerith confiding in Tifa.

They did just have a whole scene with Hojo though. It made sense she'd be talking about him right there

 

[Graymouse]

The real ship argument shouldnt be about C/T or C/A but Rude X Tifa!

Does Rude deserve Tifa's affection or not?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Tifa he grabs and pulls and also, she is down for that.

That twirl and dip gets me every time. For most will they/won't they pairs it would drip ust, but here? It drips srrt (slowly resolving romantic tension) instead.

What's most telling is Aerith's IMO. She's play acting. She's a little off, but her heart's in it.
That's not just her for Loveless, that's her for the entire game.

Hadn't spotted this but yeah, I see it now. It's a straight up miniature if her character for the majority of the game, I'm here for it.

Deal.

Ryu made a deal with the Devil! /singsong

That sort of happened awhile back.

I am shocked. Well, not that shocked

Compare and Contrast to FF8 and 10 which were very much in the mold of a love story, and FF9 which was not though has a few romances in it.

Exactly.

@Graymouse Rude needs a partner who can work razors and wax till that head shines. Judging by her long term affinity for chocobutt, I'd guess she likes unruly hair too much for him

 

[Graymouse]

Your honor,

I bring the following evidence to the court:

Remake: Where he was in the helicopter and Reno was going to shoot Tifa, and move the helicopter and blamed the wind currents.

Rebirth: CH13 Rude saves Tifa from an accidental death.

Also another piece of evidence is the big one though, where the doctor who patched Tifa up after the Nibelheim incident said she was brought to him in a Shrina helicopter. Sounds like Z called in a favor with a former student with access to a helicopter, somebody like Rude.

could this be possible where Rude first met Tifa, though she wouldn’t have been conscious at the time and hurt badly.

 

[Ryushikaze]

That twirl and dip gets me every time. For most will they/won't they pairs it would drip ust, but here? It drips srrt (slowly resolving romantic tension) instead.

Also of note is the other two ladies close their eyes very quickly. Tifa closes hers slooooow.

Hadn't spotted this but yeah, I see it now. It's a straight up miniature if her character for the majority of the game, I'm here for it.

Some good has come of the LTD! Announce it from the highest towers!

Ryu made a deal with the Devil! /singsong

Don't forget, you made a deal with me, too.

I am shocked. Well, not that shocked

The OG+the Compilation You can check this thread for some of that fallout.

Your honor,

I bring the following evidence to the court:

Remake: Where he was in the helicopter and was going to shoot Tifa, and move the helicopter and blamed the wind currents.

Rebirth: CH13 Rude saves Tifa from an accidental death.

Also another piece of evidence is the big one though, where the doctor who patched Tifa up after the Nibelheim incident said she was brought to him in a Shrina helicopter. Sounds like Z called in a favor with a former student with access to a helicopter, somebody like Rude.

could this be possible where Rude first met Tifa, though she wouldn’t have been conscious at the time and hurt badly.

Certainly it's plausible, but we have too little information to say for certain in any direction.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Also of note is the other two ladies close their eyes very quickly. Tifa closes hers slooooow.

Yes! Like, I love that, straight up. Like she wants to keep looking at him as long as possible while still playing her role. And honestly, a sloooow eye closing is hot.

Some good has come of the LTD! Announce it from the highest towers!

Sadly the highest towers lie in rubble from the old LTD, and we're never rebuilt. All things fade.

Don't forget, you made a deal with me, too.

But of course, it's expected for me. It's the other side of a deal that gets shamed, shunned, and possibly burnt at the stake

OG+the Compilation You can check this thread for some of that fallout.


Certainly it's plausible, but we have too little information to say for certain in any direction.

Doin' this asap. I know I'm weird for enjoying old forum drama but hey, the heart wants what the heart wants ..like Tifa wants her Rosa dress in the bedroom

 

[eleamaya]

Tbh I'm not sure where I should post, this is very shippy (ZA & CT) but I drop it on "Hope for Remake/Rebirth/Part 3 Story Content"
https://thelifestream.net/forums/th...ebirth-part-3-story-content.17049/post-951016
I talk about the ending on my imagination XD

 

[Eerie]

So I'm in Corel Prison now and I had Tifa's ch 8 tour date. And basically whoever said Aerith is jealous here of the date... As I had seen being said on Twitter so that is what I expected... Yeah I don't know where they're looking because I don't see it. She is commenting on being jealous of not having a person to go around the park with. But then suggests making a friend in the GS to hang out with before she tells them to enjoy their date. It's cute how Cloud stops her and Tifa agrees so she decides she will just hang with Red instead. They look out for her and she listens to their advice.

I saw Tifa too basically isn't jealous when Cloud takes Aerith on the date.

So basically I notice the devs really seem to have gotten rid of the OG jealousy and love rival thing.

That's really nice. I am so far appreciative of how Aerith and Tifa's friendship is being handled. Tho yes I do wish there was more talking on screen between them.

They do seem to be touching on TOTP a lot with Aerith. A lot of her conversations so far have been how she didn't have true friends growing up and her feelings on loneliness I just realized that. She touches on it several times.

Yeah I don’t know why people say she’s jealous there, she isn’t. Maybe it’s coloured by her saying she’s jealous of the CT bond earlier, IDK.

Speaking of extreme shippers, Japanese CAs are harassing Japanese CT owners of fan sites to, I quote, eradicate them A lot of sites have already closed.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Yeah I’m literally at the Gold Saucer, and got Tifa for Chapter 8 too. And saw the Aerith scene at Speed Square when you talk to her.

I don’t know why there was this big deal made of her being jealous of Cloud and Tifa here, nor Cloud being jealous of the idea of Aerith trying to find someone to hang out with?

Like when you take everything in context it makes sense (but like leaks in logic, context seems to go out the window with some people)

First, before Cloud and Barret head to the hotel, you literally see Aerith run off with Tifa, Red and Yuffie to go explore, and if you get Tifa for the tour of the Saucer she mentions Aerith and Yuffie went to go take a spin on the Skywheel.

If you head to Wonderment Square first (as per what the story menu suggests) then you find Yuffie, by herself. She says she got distracted and sidetracked, and wound up losing the others.

So it isn’t a surprise Aerith is by herself at Speed Square (in the event you don’t get her for the tour) and that she’s a bit put out that she’s now alone exploring the Gold Saucer, whereas Cloud and Tifa in this scenario are exploring it together. A big part of Aerith’s character is her fear of being alone and her struggles with loneliness. She wants to have fun, but like in real life, having fun at a theme park like the Gold Saucer is made so much better when you have someone to share it with. She also says she’s going to go find Red afterwards and hang out with him.

As for the whole Cloud jealousy thing, again, how?

Context is again important as we’ve already seen two scenes where we know the Turks and Palmer are at the Gold Saucer. Of course Cloud himself doesn’t know this, but in light of us the audience knowing this, Cloud telling Aerith to be careful if she’s by herself makes sense. It wasn’t too long ago when she was at risk of being kidnapped by Hojo again.

And then there’s Cait Sith. We know he’s a Shinra spy, one with a friendly face, as per Cloud’s words. Again Cloud doesn’t know Cait Sith is a spy, but it makes sense why Cloud is saying these things to Aerith in light of what we already may know about Cait Sith, and just in general about them all needing to be careful about friendly faces seemingly having hidden agendas (which Cait Sith obviously does).

So again all of what is said in that exchange makes perfect sense in the wider context of the story and what we’ve been shown in Chapter 8 prior to this. To just write off both Aerith and Cloud’s behaviour as simple jealousy isn’t true at all to either character.

 

[Stiggie]

They did just have a whole scene with Hojo though. It made sense she'd be talking about him right there

And yet something about it still feels weird to me about it. I'd probably have to play it again to really put my finger on why.

 

[Rin]

Yeah I’m literally at the Gold Saucer, and got Tifa for Chapter 8 too. And saw the Aerith scene at Speed Square when you talk to her.

I don’t know why there was this big deal made of her being jealous of Cloud and Tifa here, nor Cloud being jealous of the idea of Aerith trying to find someone to hang out with?

Like when you take everything in context it makes sense (but like leaks in logic, context seems to go out the window with some people)

First, before Cloud and Barret head to the hotel, you literally see Aerith run off with Tifa, Red and Yuffie to go explore, and if you get Tifa for the tour of the Saucer she mentions Aerith and Yuffie went to go take a spin on the Skywheel.

If you head to Wonderment Square first (as per what the story menu suggests) then you find Yuffie, by herself. She says she got distracted and sidetracked, and wound up losing the others.

So it isn’t a surprise Aerith is by herself at Speed Square (in the event you don’t get her for the tour) and that she’s a bit put out that she’s now alone exploring the Gold Saucer, whereas Cloud and Tifa in this scenario are exploring it together. A big part of Aerith’s character is her fear of being alone and her struggles with loneliness. She wants to have fun, but like in real life, having fun at a theme park like the Gold Saucer is made so much better when you have someone to share it with. She also says she’s going to go find Red afterwards and hang out with him.

As for the whole Cloud jealousy thing, again, how?

Context is again important as we’ve already seen two scenes where we know the Turks and Palmer are at the Gold Saucer. Of course Cloud himself doesn’t know this, but in light of us the audience knowing this, Cloud telling Aerith to be careful if she’s by herself makes sense. It wasn’t too long ago when she was at risk of being kidnapped by Hojo again.

And then there’s Cait Sith. We know he’s a Shinra spy, one with a friendly face, as per Cloud’s words. Again Cloud doesn’t know Cait Sith is a spy, but it makes sense why Cloud is saying these things to Aerith in light of what we already may know about Cait Sith, and just in general about them all needing to be careful about friendly faces seemingly having hidden agendas (which Cait Sith obviously does).

So again all of what is said in that exchange makes perfect sense in the wider context of the story and what we’ve been shown in Chapter 8 prior to this. To just write off both Aerith and Cloud’s behaviour as simple jealousy isn’t true at all to either character.

Plus he'll say the same thing if you wander the GS alone without a partner and bump into her. The convo doesn't change much, so we can't really read it as true jealousy on either of their parts.

Her dialogue is different if you're with Yuffie, though which I thought was interesting cause Tifa's doesn't change at all.

 

[Hix]

I'm preaching to the choir a bit, I realise, but I just have to weigh in on the latest LTD deception doing the rounds: "all dates are equal, no romance is canon, you can pick who you like and it's part of the story and by design"

I can't stress enough how this talking point is actually a not-so-subtle act of subterfuge. It's essentially saying, ah, yes, maybe in your game Aerith loves Zack and Cloud loves Tifa, but in my game Cloud loves Aerith (and Tifa/Zack fade into obscurity) and that's just as valid! It's a roundabout way of arguing head-canon trumps actual canon, what you believe is more important than what the reality is.

Ultimately this "everyone wins" sentiment may come across as favourable to many, I see it oft upvoted on Reddit for example, it is nothing less than a way to write Tifa's entire character out of the narrative. Aerith has a role, she's the last of the Cetra, she has control of not one but two distinct ways of saving the entire planet from the disaster that is yet to come. Tifa cannot do this, all she can do is heal Cloud's broken mind, support him and stand by his side as his love interest.

Similarly, it removes everything Zack fought for, everything he continues to fight for, his purpose and motives. He already became a hero in Crisis Core, he's long over that, his last thoughts at the finale and his first thoughts in Remake were "I need to get back to Aerith" - Aerith's own story makes no sense if it's not coupled with her continued longing for Zack. Indeed, her entire arc with Cloud is based on the narrative that she feeds his SOLDIER fantasy with the bodyguard role in a desperate attempt to relive her lost romance. It's not some footnote or minor plot point that changes depending on one's actions. It's the story.

So too, the Gold Saucer dates are not an easter egg. One is not anymore "canon" than the other. Cloud is Cloud and his personality and interests don't change one way or another. I recommend everyone use the menu to watch all the GS dates and if at any point you think "hang on, that one must not be canon" then I suggest you're barking up the wrong tree on the story - because one, and only one, of the dates is unambiguously romantic.

As noted earlier, the dates are enlightening because they show how Cloud and co would react with each character in that given situation. I loved watching Barret step in to defend Cloud from the VR and give him relationship advice. For the girls, the devs are telling us that if you put Cloud and Tifa there he's going to kiss her, but put Cloud and Aerith there and he won't.

These things are not equal. It's being spelled out and if you can't see that then that's a you problem.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Plus he'll say the same thing if you wander the GS alone without a partner and bump into her. The convo doesn't change much, so we can't really read it as true jealousy on either of their parts.

Her dialogue is different if you're with Yuffie, though which I thought was interesting cause Tifa's doesn't change at all.

Ooh I’m curious what’s different about it if you’re with Yuffie, I haven’t found any videos or streams where it isn’t either Cloud by himself, with Tifa, or with Aerith.

I’m curious if you get different dialogue as well when you talk to Red at Battle Square with Aerith, as with Tifa it’s only a quick bit about Red hiding from children who think he’s a mascot