SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Eerie

Fire and Blood
The YouTuber Welonz felt this way too. Her reaction was priceless. She was like “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!”

Cloud fumbled so hard.
She's such a cloti but she's fumbled every answer to Tifa so far lol. She's telling the game "I prefer Cloud and Aerith" because her answers for her have been 3 stars so far. She's making me nervous, as I know she would prefer the CT date lmao.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
She's such a cloti but she's fumbled every answer to Tifa so far lol. She's telling the game "I prefer Cloud and Aerith" because her answers for her have been 3 stars so far. She's making me nervous, as I know she would prefer the CT date lmao.
She’ll probably like the Gongaga stuff.
 

LunarTarotGirl

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Lunarae
Speaking of extreme shippers, Japanese CAs are harassing Japanese CT owners of fan sites to, I quote, eradicate them 😑 A lot of sites have already closed.
Wt in the Planet is wrong with these people?

Is their life too easy.

Their life is probably too easy.

It's clearly not hard enough if they're making everything a problem and obssesing over a pairing to this degree.

Extremists suck.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
The human race'll go extinct sooner or later, and the LTD will go with it. Unless there really is a Hell, that'd keep it going.
A thousand years from now the aliens will find the ruined remains of our civilization, they will research our archives, they will find FFVII and the threads on the LTD and they will understand how our species managed to kill itself.

Alien A: This is absurd, why on mars would they ever fight over something this stupid and obvious?
Alien B: I concur
Alien A: I mean, the story is pretty blatant about Cloud loving Tifa
Alien B: ...Tifa?
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Persona, Witcher, Baldurs Gate, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Rune Factory, Fire Emblem.

What do all of these "choose your romance" games have in common that simply isn't true for FF7:Remake thus far?
Not to shit too much over your point, but Witcher and several fire emblems do have canon couples. In fact, the first two Fire Emblems only had the non optional romantic pairings, the first with an affection system of any sort had a predetermined love interest for main dude, and the first two games with the system as we know it have two all but canon pairings (Roy x Lillina and Hector x Lyn) and one absolutely canon pairing (Eliwood x Ninian).
More recent ones have been entirely pick your pairing, though.

Also Witcher had a canon love interest before there were games. CDPR fucked up by pushing Triss so hard in parts 1 and 2, hottie though she is.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
A thousand years from now the aliens will find the ruined remains of our civilization, they will research our archives, they will find FFVII and the threads on the LTD and they will understand how our species managed to kill itself.

Alien A: This is absurd, why on mars would they ever fight over something this stupid and obvious?
Alien B: I concur
Alien A: I mean, the story is pretty blatant about Cloud loving Tifa
Alien B: ...Tifa?
The LTD will lead to the ruination of all future civilizations.

Imagine Genesis obsessing over it.

“Is Tifa the Goddess or is it Aerith? I will find the answer. Quietly but surely.”

And yes, Ryu is right.., canonically Yen is the real love interest. Surprised the shipping war isn’t stronger with the Witcher fanbase. Although I suppose that’s probably because the game actually lets Geralt pick what the player wants.

I don’t know about Fire Emblem though. I haven’t played much of that franchise.
 
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Hix

Pro Adventurer
canonically Yen is the real love interest. Surprised the shipping war isn’t stronger with the Witcher fanbase. Although I suppose that’s probably because the game actually lets Geralt pick what the player wants.

That and, you know, Geralt sleeps with basically everyone and confesses he loves other women in the novels too. As a character, he - and Yen too for that matter - have been shown to be pretty loose, to put it lightly.

I'm not excusing CDPR creating the Triss thing, she's different enough (and I feel has a nicer arc) that it stands on its own, but within the world of the Witcher it's not unthinkable Geralt would end up with her, or another woman, if freed from the Djinn's magic.

Final Fantasy VII is different. From the beginning Cloud is shown to have eyes only for Tifa. It's these feelings which spur him to (try to) join SOLDIER setting up the events of the game, these feelings that snap him back to some form of sanity in Midgar and these feelings which come bursting forth in the Lifestream sequence.

So too, Tifa loved Cloud then and we keep getting told and shown nothing changed or changes.

The LTD is really a spanner in the works of the story. One could argue Triss may be this too (though Geralt does sleep with her in the novels, he does this with basically every woman) but there it is set up, telegraphed, developed and made to be believable. Even those who dislike Geralt/Triss admit it doesn't necessarily feel out of place due to 2 prior games of build up before the wild hunt payoff. CA just feels like a flash in the pan - both in universe and out - compared to everything pushing CT (and to a lesser extent ZA)
 
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Maidenofwar

They/Them
Brianna, I don't blame her, she has to cater to both CAs and ZAs, and also protect from harassment or abuse from any anti CA extremists if she does CA route. I've only watched a bit so far, I saw her say aww thanks Tifa when Tifa rubbed Aerith's back in the inn and then get sucked into Queen's Blood :lol:
 

billy22

Pro Adventurer
Not to shit too much over your point, but Witcher and several fire emblems do have canon couples. In fact, the first two Fire Emblems only had the non optional romantic pairings, the first with an affection system of any sort had a predetermined love interest for main dude, and the first two games with the system as we know it have two all but canon pairings (Roy x Lillina and Hector x Lyn) and one absolutely canon pairing (Eliwood x Ninian).
More recent ones have been entirely pick your pairing, though.

Also Witcher had a canon love interest before there were games. CDPR fucked up by pushing Triss so hard in parts 1 and 2, hottie though she is.

I am aware that the Witcher books exist, which have a canon interest. I was actually refering to the games, specifically. For Fire Emblem, it was the modern games, such as 3 houses, Awakening, or Engage. I uh, forgot that series has about 20 or so odd games, and hasn't always done the whole "choose your wife" thing.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
Brianna, I don't blame her, she has to cater to both CAs and ZAs, and also protect from harassment or abuse from any anti CA extremists if she does CA route. I've only watched a bit so far, I saw her say aww thanks Tifa when Tifa rubbed Aerith's back in the inn and then get sucked into Queen's Blood :lol:
I assume she'll try to get Aerith, I mean, it would be pretty weird for her not to, and I'd totally get Aerith fans being upset if she went for Tifa. Hell, doesn't even have to be Clerith, just Aerith fans in general, ofcourse you'd want to see her reaction to her own scene.
Still though, she's probably nice to Tifa as well so if she did get the Tifa date it would be pretty funny.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
She's doing side stuff I think, so I assume she won't end up with Cait Sith like me. Even if she only does the very minimum like help Chloe or go back to Kalm to help the townspeople or get the Junon chocobo (I ignored all that) it might be enough for her to get one of the girls.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
She's doing side stuff I think, so I assume she won't end up with Cait Sith like me. Even if she only does the very minimum like help Chloe or go back to Kalm to help the townspeople or get the Junon chocobo (I ignored all that) it might be enough for her to get one of the girls.
Caith Sith!? hahaha, oh wow.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I do love the Boy’s Night GS date. It’s pretty funny honestly.

I’m currently working on my second playthrough and seeing if I can get that one.

Edit: I didn’t. Got Tifa again. But this time I did manage to get her HA date. I got the standard my first time through
 
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Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
What is always strange to me is that a lot of C/A shippers conveniently forget that Cloud would have never meet Areith without first trying to impress Tifa by going into SOLDIER and Cloud wanting to be as strong as Sephiroth.

The entire story has its genesis on that very fact.

So why can't C/A be happy that if it wasnt for Tifa in the first place, to set the events into motion, he would not have ever meet Aerith at all.

Instead they are trying to erase Tifa's characters out of existence because it conflicts with their head canon?
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
What is always strange to me is that a lot of C/A shippers conveniently forget that Cloud would have never meet Areith without first trying to impress Tifa by going into SOLDIER and Cloud wanting to be as strong as Sephiroth.

The entire story has its genesis on that very fact.

So why can't C/A be happy that if it wasnt for Tifa in the first place, to set the events into motion, he would not have ever meet Aerith at all.

Instead they are trying to erase Tifa's characters out of existence because it conflicts with their head canon?
To be fair, they’d probably say “gotta look forward, not back” and say that the Tifa promise stuff was all in the past.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
To be fair, they’d probably say “gotta look forward, not back” and say that the Tifa promise stuff was all in the past.
I always, and i mean always hated that line! It is such a shitty line. Simply because it erases Zack's entire story. Also, people must think that Cloud is a total jackass that he would treat Tifa that shitty after the events of FF7.

Not only that, it is only then, Cloud can look back when it involves Aerith and not look forward when it involves Tifa? What sense does that make?

It makes all 4 characters very hollow and a game I would put down in 2 mins. If I am being honest. I hate cardboard cutout characters.
 

Maidenofwar

They/Them
I don't hate the line mainly because almost nobody is allowed to move on from their first loves in these games apparently, CT, ZA, Barret/Myrna, etc and everyone has to be conveniently heteronormative paired. However not a hypocrite doesn't mean characters can't look forward again even after that.
 

null

Mr. Thou
AKA
null
And yes, Ryu is right.., canonically Yen is the real love interest. Surprised the shipping war isn’t stronger with the Witcher fanbase. Although I suppose that’s probably because the game actually lets Geralt pick what the player wants.

Oh it's a huge war and they basically sound exactly like us. It's the only other shipping debate I know of that's comparable to the FFVII LTD... although FFVII certainly leads in obsessed self-insert fans falling in love with the characters.

That and, you know, Geralt sleeps with basically everyone and confesses he loves other women in the novels too. As a character, he - and Yen too for that matter - have been shown to be pretty loose, to put it lightly.

Yeah they both get around. But they're both sterile and immune to disease, so why not lol. And most of their actual relationship happens off-page. During the stories they're nearly always on a break and trying (and failing) to get over each other.

Did Geralt actually confess to someone else? I remember him being obsessed with Yennefer at every turn. He's shown more than once fantasizing about her while having sex with others (even yelling out her name while in bed with Fringilla lmao).

I'm not excusing CDPR creating the Triss thing, she's different enough (and I feel has a nicer arc) that it stands on its own, but within the world of the Witcher it's not unthinkable Geralt would end up with her, or another woman, if freed from the Djinn's magic.

The LTD is really a spanner in the works of the story. One could argue Triss may be this too (though Geralt does sleep with her in the novels, he does this with basically every woman) but there it is set up, telegraphed, developed and made to be believable. Even those who dislike Geralt/Triss admit it doesn't necessarily feel out of place due to 2 prior games of build up before the wild hunt payoff. CA just feels like a flash in the pan - both in universe and out - compared to everything pushing CT (and to a lesser extent ZA)

Hot take time? I think Aerith had a better shot with Cloud than Book Triss ever had with Geralt. They spent an entire winter together with no other women around for hundreds of miles and Triss throwing herself at him, and he didn't lay a finger on her. Geralt of Rivia abstaining from sex. Why? All because it would piss off his ex.

The games do point out that Triss is manipulating Geralt. I think it gets missed if she's already cast as the love interest in the player's mind. If you turn down Witcher 2 Triss at the bath (nobody does this because who passes on a bath porno, lol) you get a resistance to magic bonus. She's been using magic on Geralt to get him to have sex. Again. That's how she did it in the books. Not to mention how shady the Rose of Remembrance was given that it's shown to be a key ingredient in mind control magic.

Geralt and Yennefer are very toxic for each other. No question. But it wasn't the Last Wish that made them fall for each other (that's something else CDPR made up). Geralt is madly in love with all those shitty qualities of hers. In one of the short stories he had the chance to go with a kind, beautiful, intelligent woman with zero baggage and he brutally friendzoned her because she's not Yennefer. (He did sleep with her of course... she's not on Yennefer's Do-Not-Fuck list after all.) Even if Triss were a nice person, it's yet another reason it's so implausible Geralt would end up with her.

TL;DR Both guys have amnesia, both ladies are exceedingly special but not-quite-lovers, however Yennefer nearly beat Triss's ass but Tifa high fives Aerith so the parallels only go so far. (Edit: this was not a TL;DR but I'm leaving it in. YOLO.)

To be fair, they’d probably say “gotta look forward, not back” and say that the Tifa promise stuff was all in the past.

...

...

... is Aerith... not in the past at this point?
 

cgnVirtue

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Virtue
Edit: I didn’t. Got Tifa again. But this time I did manage to get her HA date. I got the standard my first time through
Fun fact: The first time I did the Gold Saucer date I got Tifa. I saw the leaks of the kiss and I was so excited to see it for myself. So I went through the whole date, having done everything perfectly. Got to the Skywheel, was so ready, and…
It was the low affection ending. I was so pissed I loaded up the last checkpoint and did hours of side quests (I was starting to rush through the main story at this point). I wasn’t about to have these two not kiss when they desperately need a moment of peace with each other.
 

insanehobbit

Pro Adventurer
Lol, I can't say I understand the hand wringing over part three after this game. Rebirth has Cloud kiss Tifa (optionally, sure) during a part of the story where in the OG there was almost nothing going on between them. AND (non-optionally), we have two party members whispering for them to kiss outside of the door in Gongaga -- so that's another thing that's been set up and still needs to be resolved in part 3, non-optionally. There's only one direction this story is going (AKA the same place the OG/Compilation ends up).

I thought the end of Rebirth made it clear that all these other "timelines"/worlds are dying/aren't going to matter in the end? Not just because Sephiroth says this (obviously he's the villain and not the most reliable narrator), but because all the "worlds" Zack end up in Ch 14 die, and the "dream date" is in yet another "world" that is dying. Other than Aerith feeling Zack's hand in the Lifestream, how much did these "worlds" impact of the plot of Rebirth outside of the ending (which we are seeing through the POV of an extremely unreliable narrator)? Not at all. The journey may look slightly different, but our destination is going to be the same.

These "worlds" exist to build out our understanding of Sephiroth's plan/Lifestream lore. They have absolutely nothing to do with SE creating multiple universes to try to make every shipper happy, lmfao, unless you think them having Cloud kiss Tifa while only holding Aerith's hand in Rebirth's Schrodinger's Gondola multiverse is them making every shipper happy.

To @JaeKony's point about the Sector 5 "dream date" contributing to Cloud's breakdown at the Northern Crater, while I do think there's a conversation to be had about whether Aerith's actions there (unintentionally) exacerbated Cloud's mental decline, I don't think they're relevant to the Northern Crater, because I don't think the Northern Crater is about Cloud questioning his self-worth in general, it's specifically about the Nibelheim Incident and Cloud's fears of not being able to impress Tifa.

The Northern Crater is a mirror image of the Lifestream sequence, and both of these scenes exist to serve Cloud and Tifa's character arcs. At the heart of this is their conflicting recollections of the Nibelheim Incident. That is what Sephiroth has been trying to exploit through all of Rebirth, trying to shake Cloud's faith in himself, and Tifa's faith in him.

At the Northern Crater, Sephiroth's "truth" is this: Cloud wasn't at Nibelheim 5 years ago. He's not even a real person, he's just a "puppet," a failed Jenova clone who merged with the memories Tifa had of the "real" Cloud she knew from childhood. Sephiroth slowly drips his poison throughout Remake/Rebirth, taunting Cloud about his inability to feel emotions, trying to drive a wedge between him and Tifa, so that by the end of Rebirth, Cloud is so far removed from the boy she knew that we can understand how she could -- even momentarily -- believe that this "Cloud" isn't the real him.

In the Lifestream, Tifa has to help put together a man who doesn't believe in his own existence. We see the two of them recount what happened when they fell off Mt. Nibel and their promise at the Water Tower. They're crucial because they are memories Cloud and Tifa share, but that alone doesn't disprove Sephiroth's assertion that this "Cloud" was formed through Tifa's memories.

What does disprove this is how Cloud felt in those moments, something that Tifa could not have known, and something that explains why his memory of what happened five years ago is so different from hers.

After he wasn't able to save her from falling off Mt. Nibel, Cloud begins to hate his own weakness, and decides that he needs to become strong, a SOLDIER like Sephiroth, so that Tifa would notice him.

On the water tower, he explicitly tells her that he's going to become a SOLDIER, and based on her reaction, he (incorrectly) assumes that Tifa will only love him if he does.

Because of these desires and misplaced fears, we understand why Cloud (who couldn't get into SOLDIER) hid himself from Tifa five years ago. That's why Tifa doesn't remember Cloud being there (because Cloud never revealed himself to her until she was bleeding out), and that's how Cloud remembers things he has no right knowing (he was under the Shinra grunt mask the whole time). They both only had half the truth, but now the contradiction of the Nibelheim Incident and Cloud's persona has been unraveled.

This moment and the Northern Crater are about Cloud and Tifa's backstories in the same way that Corel/Dyne is about Barret's backstory, Cave of the Gi/Seto is about Red XIII's backstory. The latter two were reimagined in Rebirth and those sequences still centered Barret and Red, exclusively, so I don't see why the Northern Crater/Lifestream wouldn't be the same. Same as with Barret/Red, these two moments (as well as the Kalm flashback) are about Cloud and Tifa grappling with and reconciling with events that happened to them before the game begins. Anyone/anything that happens after aren't relevant. They're symptoms, not the cause.
 

Someonesbunny

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Rabbit
I honestly wish we could just dispense with the caveat of content being "optional" in the Remake series because we know that it doesn't exist to change the context of the narrative meaning that none of them are ever ruled outside of canon. I understand that we do so to suggest that even with such a label, there is still an objectively correct answer to the question, but it also suggests that the purpose of content is somehow to not be seen, which is the furthest thing from why it exists at all.

We keep extending these olive branches out of good will and it's just never returned with good faith.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Oh it's a huge war and they basically sound exactly like us. It's the only other shipping debate I know of that's comparable to the FFVII LTD... although FFVII certainly leads in obsessed self-insert fans falling in love with the characters.



Yeah they both get around. But they're both sterile and immune to disease, so why not lol. And most of their actual relationship happens off-page. During the stories they're nearly always on a break and trying (and failing) to get over each other.

Did Geralt actually confess to someone else? I remember him being obsessed with Yennefer at every turn. He's shown more than once fantasizing about her while having sex with others (even yelling out her name while in bed with Fringilla lmao).



Hot take time? I think Aerith had a better shot with Cloud than Book Triss ever had with Geralt. They spent an entire winter together with no other women around for hundreds of miles and Triss throwing herself at him, and he didn't lay a finger on her. Geralt of Rivia abstaining from sex. Why? All because it would piss off his ex.

The games do point out that Triss is manipulating Geralt. I think it gets missed if she's already cast as the love interest in the player's mind. If you turn down Witcher 2 Triss at the bath (nobody does this because who passes on a bath porno, lol) you get a resistance to magic bonus. She's been using magic on Geralt to get him to have sex. Again. That's how she did it in the books. Not to mention how shady the Rose of Remembrance was given that it's shown to be a key ingredient in mind control magic.

Geralt and Yennefer are very toxic for each other. No question. But it wasn't the Last Wish that made them fall for each other (that's something else CDPR made up). Geralt is madly in love with all those shitty qualities of hers. In one of the short stories he had the chance to go with a kind, beautiful, intelligent woman with zero baggage and he brutally friendzoned her because she's not Yennefer. (He did sleep with her of course... she's not on Yennefer's Do-Not-Fuck list after all.) Even if Triss were a nice person, it's yet another reason it's so implausible Geralt would end up with her.

TL;DR Both guys have amnesia, both ladies are exceedingly special but not-quite-lovers, however Yennefer nearly beat Triss's ass but Tifa high fives Aerith so the parallels only go so far. (Edit: this was not a TL;DR but I'm leaving it in. YOLO.)



...

...

... is Aerith... not in the past at this point?
That’s the thing. He’ll be reunited with her in death.

Basically, it doesn’t count where Cloud and Aerith are concerned… but it counts for Tifa and Zack I guess.
 
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