SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Fakewings_]

Let’s discuss the “what if” scenario.

If Aerith didn’t die, could the relationship between her and Cloud develop further? In a romantic sense?

In my opinion, their relationship might even hit a dead end and remain solely as friends, nothing more.

1. Before Cloud returned to be real Cloud, they couldn’t progress further, mainly because of Tifa’s existence. Throughout Rebirth, all moments, gestures leaning towards more than just friendship between Cloud and Aerith mostly occurred behind Tifa’s back. If such moments happened in front of Tifa, Cloud’s reaction would likely be one of panic due to Tifa’s suspicion, similar to when Aerith held Cloud’s arm in the mines. Everyone in the party knows there’s something between Cloud and Tifa, including Aerith. So if Cloud truly loves Aerith and dares to show it in front of Tifa, both Cloud and Aerith must suppress any emotions and prior relationship with Tifa. Especially Aerith when she becomes the betrayer of friend.
2. After Cloud returns to himself, he will remember his memories, including Zack’s sacrifice. And at that moment, Zack’s existence becomes the biggest barrier for Cloud and Aerith; when Cloud remembers Zack but still chooses to ignore everything to be with Aerith. Zack’s sacrifice becomes meaningless. And, of course, Cloud’ll be an asshole evermore.
Exactly, in both scenarios, any romantic relationship between Cloud and Aerith would be difficult to accept. Cloud and Aerith would undoubtedly be praised as soulmates, star-crossed lovers, just as Clerith defines it; at the same time, they become selfish individuals driven by personal desires.

 

[liuliuliu]

I honestly think in OG there might be a chance if Aerith lives…but in Rebirth Cloud remembers Zack was in love with Aerith. It hits a dead end here…Bro is not going to touch his best friend’s girlfriend…I mean in his mind Zack and Aerith probably not even ex because he thinks Zack died as Aerith’s boyfriend
Honestly we have to admit that FF7 is not a story focusing on romantic love(IMO), and it is definitely not a moving on from your first love story…it is quite contrary, probably because it was wrote in 1997, people in Japan were quite depressed at that time, and also first love troop was still dominant at that time.

My long time head canon of the perfectly “move on” story will be Tifa restored Cloud’s mind and dead. And Cloud, after remembering his love for Tifa and accepting her death, moved on to a new live with Aerith later, who also moved on from Zack, and become a family in the 2 years span. But this definitely is NOT FF7. I probably can find some movie or novel with this plot though lol.

 

[Rin]

Also, I'd say FF7 does have a 'move on' theme, it's just not about romance. Moving on from your trauma, from your past mistakes, from the things you can't change, etc. is certainly something FF7 is focused on but trying to co-opt that theme and make it about something it's not so that a certain ship can sail just entirely diminishes the story.

 

[Graymouse]

I mean, it’s real. It’s an actual ad I got.

Seriously? You have to be pulling our leg.

 

[GamerSkull]

Seriously? You have to be pulling our leg.

Here’s the link:

x.com

x.com

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Can someone explain to me what the actual F this whole WcDonald’s thing is, and how it even remotely relates to CA lol I’m so confused like that ad has nothing to do with Final Fantasy?

 

[liuliuliu]

Also, I'd say FF7 does have a 'move on' theme, it's just not about romance. Moving on from your trauma, from your past mistakes, from the things you can't change, etc. is certainly something FF7 is focused on but trying to co-opt that theme and make it about something it's not so that a certain ship can sail just entirely diminishes the story.

Yah that is so true. Like literally everyone is trying to move on from their traumatized past and keep hopes up, keep fighting, keep living. I think that also fits more with the circumstances when this story was wrote IMO.

 

[GamerSkull]

Can someone explain to me what the actual F this whole WcDonald’s thing is, and how it even remotely relates to CA lol I’m so confused like that ad has nothing to do with Final Fantasy?

I wasn’t here for it but it was explained to me that some Clerith supporter lied about a developer interview that confirmed CA and that interview took place at a WcDonald’s.

At least that’s what I remember.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I wasn’t here for it but it was explained to me that some Clerith supporter lied about a developer interview that confirmed CA and that interview took place at a WcDonald’s.

At least that’s what I remember.

This is like the Bermuda Triangle of CA honestly I’m so confused

Like the lying, sure that checks out lol but a developer interview where they confirm a ship as canon?

That took place at WcDonalds?! which… doesn’t exist?

I think the internet was a mistake

 

[Graymouse]

I honestly think in OG there might be a chance if Aerith lives…

See there is a problem with this and I honestly believe that even if Aerith lived she wouldn't have ended up with Cloud. But a lot of extreme C/A use this and state that if Aerith lives that she and Cloud will get married and have kids.

Lets play devils advocate for a minute. From all the context that we have up to this point I truly believe that the story would continue on the same patch with or without Aerith (I am speaking from not being killed vs being killed) there is no path forward that Aerith will end up with Cloud because Tifa exits. The only way this outcome could happen is if Tifa don't exist or dies. Tifa as stated in pervious posts, she is Clouds Alpha and Omega. There is no arguing that and If you do the story of FF7 will fall apart.

 

[Graymouse]

Let’s discuss the “what if” scenario.

If Aerith didn’t die, could the relationship between her and Cloud develop further? In a romantic sense?

In my opinion, their relationship might even hit a dead end and remain solely as friends, nothing more.

1. Before Cloud returned to be real Cloud, they couldn’t progress further, mainly because of Tifa’s existence. Throughout Rebirth, all moments, gestures leaning towards more than just friendship between Cloud and Aerith mostly occurred behind Tifa’s back. If such moments happened in front of Tifa, Cloud’s reaction would likely be one of panic due to Tifa’s suspicion, similar to when Aerith held Cloud’s arm in the mines. Everyone in the party knows there’s something between Cloud and Tifa, including Aerith. So if Cloud truly loves Aerith and dares to show it in front of Tifa, both Cloud and Aerith must suppress any emotions and prior relationship with Tifa. Especially Aerith when she becomes the betrayer of friend.
2. After Cloud returns to himself, he will remember his memories, including Zack’s sacrifice. And at that moment, Zack’s existence becomes the biggest barrier for Cloud and Aerith; when Cloud remembers Zack but still chooses to ignore everything to be with Aerith. Zack’s sacrifice becomes meaningless. And, of course, Cloud’ll be an asshole evermore.
Exactly, in both scenarios, any romantic relationship between Cloud and Aerith would be difficult to accept. Cloud and Aerith would undoubtedly be praised as soulmates, star-crossed lovers, just as Clerith defines it; at the same time, they become selfish individuals driven by personal desires.

Explained perfectly! I got ninja'ed!

 

[GamerSkull]

See there is a problem with this and I honestly believe that even if Aerith lived she wouldn't have ended up with Cloud. But a lot of extreme C/A use this and state that if Aerith lives that she and Cloud will get married and have kids.

Lets play devils advocate for a minute. From all the context that we have up to this point I truly believe that the story would continue on the same patch with or without Aerith (I am speaking from not being killed vs being killed) there is no path forward that Aerith will end up with Cloud because Tifa exits. The only way this outcome could happen is if Tifa don't exist or dies. Tifa as stated in pervious posts, she is Clouds Alpha and Omega. There is no arguing that and If you do the story of FF7 will fall apart.

Post-LS, Aerith would realize Cloud’s true heart lies with Tifa and being the good friend of both that she is, she would bow out of the LT.

 

[Someonesbunny]

When the Ultis said that Cloud and Tifa expressed their mutual feelings to each other, they did not clarify that they were Mutual Feelings of Friendship

 

[GamerSkull]

Yeah, friends are people you kiss…. Lovers are who you hold hands with. /s

 

[Sacky]

This is like the Bermuda Triangle of CA honestly I’m so confused

Like the lying, sure that checks out lol but a developer interview where they confirm a ship as canon?

That took place at WcDonalds?! which… doesn’t exist?

I think the internet was a mistake

It's a story about a Clerith with 2 Japanese friends at WcDonald's which is what McDonald's is called in Japan obviously. In the story they mention Cloti to their friends and they act surprised as it's not a thing in Japan. So the point of the story was Cloti was never even considered in Japan and therefore is not Canon. There's also the Whole Koi fish thing but I don't know that full story XD if someone here does know though?

 

[GamerSkull]

It's a story about a Clerith with 2 Japanese friends at WcDonald's which is what McDonald's is called in Japan obviously. In the story they mention Cloti to their friends and they act surprised as it's not a thing in Japan. So the point of the story was Cloti was never even considered in Japan and therefore is not Canon. There's also the Whole Koi fish thing but I don't know that full story XD if someone here does know though?

Oh, why did I think a dev was involved? Weird.

Either way, just seems fake.

 

[Sacky]

Oh, why did I think a dev was involved? Weird.

Either way, just seems fake.

Oh yeah the WcDonald's should give it away XD

 

[GamerSkull]

Oh yeah the WcDonald's should give it away XD

I mean… even without that, there is no way there isn’t a Cloti fanbase in Japan.

 

[liuliuliu]

See there is a problem with this and I honestly believe that even if Aerith lived she wouldn't have ended up with Cloud. But a lot of extreme C/A use this and state that if Aerith lives that she and Cloud will get married and have kids.

I mean for OG and OG games only, without all the ultimania and compilation projects.
For OG I always thought Cloud loves Tifa, but his feeling for Aerith was never properly addressed. Maybe just my 12 years old brain didn’t capture the fact that there is platonic “love” between man and women at that time . Don’t blame me I was young and naive
For Remake, I don’t think there is a need for any discussion at all. He fried zoned Aerith, in her face.

 

[Graymouse]

Yeah, friends are people you kiss…. Lovers are who you hold hands with. /s

Those that think that have been watching too many fake ass ROMCOM anime's. That is absolutely not how the Japanese look at PDE in Japan. Of course the Japanese are very reserved when it comes to relationships. It is just their culture. Everyone hold hands while walking around in public (friends, family, and yes of course those in relationships) However, you will never! NEVER! ever ever see two Japanese people kiss in public in any circumstance other than at a wedding. Even then, it is just a peck on the lips barley touching! Showing PDE in Japan is looked down upon.

All that to say, since this is a JRPG, and the Devs are Japanese there is no way in hell that interlocking hand holding is showing more love than a deep kiss on the lips that is done in a very private and romantic situation.

 

[hytekz]

I mean… even without that, there is no way there isn’t a Cloti fanbase in Japan.

It's very easy to see if something is popular in Japan or not. Just check Pixiv!
CA have a total of 2200 works
While CT have a total of 4400 works
So even in nihon land CT seems to be the most popular pairing.

 

[Graymouse]

I mean… even without that, there is no way there isn’t a Cloti fanbase in Japan.

Why I believe there is,

By the way there are a lot of lotteries where FF7 Tifa and Cloud at the Family Marts, 7 & 11, Lawsons, and the Daily Mart.

I have spent too much money on those to get those stupid figures.

 

[Graymouse]

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Kuji Includes Cloud and Tifa Figures

Square Enix will hold a kuji lottery for Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, with prizes such as figures, a guidebook, and a CD.

www.siliconera.com

This is my crack at the moment!

 

[GamerSkull]

Final Fantasy VII Rebirth Kuji Includes Cloud and Tifa Figures

Square Enix will hold a kuji lottery for Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, with prizes such as figures, a guidebook, and a CD.

www.siliconera.com

This is my crack at the moment!

Those figures look awesome.

 

[insanehobbit]

I vaguely remember WcDonald's from the ACF days, but yes it was some CA claim. I can't remember if it was a fake dev interview or just something about how their Japanese friend at WcDonald's told them that everyone in Japan believed CA was canon. Also lots of discussion about how carp/koi fish symbolized romantic love in Japanese culture or something, lmfao. So there being a big ass fish in the lake in the Forgotten Capital = CA are soulmates. y'all are so lucky to have missed it. If you think the takes are wild now, you should have seen what we were working with back then!

To the earlier convo about Tifa's GS date. I took Tifa's "it's more complicated than that" not as her addressing Aerith's feelings for Zack, but an answer to Cloud's first question of why she hadn't talked to Aerith yet. It's not because (as Cloud assumes) it's a touchy subject because Aerith still has feelings for Zack, but because of the implications of what that means re: Cloud.

Also kinda funny that Cloud picked this as a "neutral" icebreaker after he got caught awkwardly staring at Tifa. Tifa was clearly right to ask him to let her break the news to Aerith, because even if his memory wasn't messed up, he clearly still lacks the social graces to handle these sorts of situations, lol.

The more I think about the Sector 5 dream date, the more I question why it's there. The church farewell/"confession" + Sleeping Forest scene afterward already does everything to address Aerith's feelings for Cloud/Zack, as well as getting the "White Materia" back, without the ick factor of Aerith "cajoling" (her words!) Cloud around on a "dream" date right after he's lost his mind at ToTA.

I guess, in addition to the meta-commentary about fate, it serves the purpose of some non-optional build up to Aerith's "confession." Because if you're not going the Aerith route in the game, then the only non-optional moment that gives you a sense of Aerith's feelings for Cloud is...back in Ch. 2 when Aerith calls their clock tower outing a "date"? So then the Church scene would truly feel like it's coming out of nowhere (though I guess the "one-sided confession" Ch. 14 resolution in Remake is too, lmao). The whole thing is so strange.