SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I used to hate their ' issues in OTWTAS' out of frustration cuz they're both the same. But a bit mature now I realize Tifa's actions are indeed what Cloud needed. He needed to find himself and know to properly grieve as this is taken away from him back in Nibelheim and Zack and Aerith. Plus with "alien cancer" as @Rin says ( hehe :P :P )
Love that 'alien cancer' stuck with you 😌💖
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
One main reason I dislike the chemistry between Aerith and Cloud in Rebirth is the very fact that every date that these two go on are almost an exact mirror image of the date that Aerith and Zack went on before.

I know that these are fictional characters but damn, that sure makes Aerith look really bad and very desperate for affection in my opinion. Taking someone new onto a date to the exact place that she and Zack (multiverse BS aside) went on is almost as equivalent as asking someone to marry you and get rejected and then you keep the engagement ring and years later, offering the same ring to your new love interest. Who in the right mind would do that!

I knew all the way at the beginning that Aerith is trying to use Cloud to fill a void in her heart and no matter how much she wants to fill it, Cloud will never be able to. I mean when she asked "told" Cloud to be her bodyguard, after he fell through the roof just like Zack and a date will be his reward, (sounds familiar) just like Zack

Also realistically I don't think there is ever a case where someone as jacked up in the head as Cloud is at this point in the game can fall in love with someone who he quite literally just meet a few weeks ago. ( I really hate using this but let's be real here)

But wait Graymouse, if you said that line before than how can Cloud fall in love with Tifa. Ah, good question. Quite simply, the entire genesis of the game begins with the love of the girl next door and his desire to protect her and keep her safe at all costs! For Pete's sake he tried out for Soldier knowing how dangerous it is! (this is real life equivalent of joining your countries Armed Forces)

That is 100% pure love and dedication vs a "flash" in the pan over zealous heartbroken women that he meet only a few weeks past.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
They don't understand that Tifa is Clouds anchor who keeps him together. Tifa, at the end of the game, is grieving silently, hence locking her emotions (Lockheart). Her not having a big part at the end, i disagree the game specifically focuses on Tifas grief, she has just lost her Best Friend again and is witnessing the boy she loves fall apart. The camera focuses on her a lot during the end, and it is her reaction that is the most sad to watch. The last person to get on the bronco apart from Cloud is Tifa and the game lingers on that. The reason Sephiroth is able to kill Aerith is because she had to be in a vulnerable position to pray. Also, Sephiroth can supress holy but why bother when he can stop it from the start. Which is why he tried draining or in my theory tricking Aerith into making her white materia empty. Contrary to popular belief, Sephiroth can't just teleport everywhere and kill anyone. Cloud completely shuts down into his catatonic state when he thinks hes harmed Tifa. The difference is Aerith was stabbed yet Tifa has fallen one is confirmed dead or dying, the other is missing. I don't think if Tifa did die, Cloud would ever be able to snap out of that state again.
If Cloud didn't act that way when Aerith died, the emotion wouldn't be there for the players but comparing death reactions is stupid anyway.
Since by that Logic Aeriths death has affected Barret more than Avalanches!

Lets look at Tifas Trauma from a story perspective

Tifas trauma is very much not noticed by people and players, and the reason is that she never speaks about it or shows it as clearly as other characters. The timeline for Tifa is
- Her mom dies and she tries to climb a mountain on a theory to see her that not even she believes. She ends up falling from a bridge and ending up in a coma
  • Everyone of her friends ends up leaving the village, leaving her alone
  • She found her dad dead and watched her village burn down
- She then gets almost killed by Sephiroth as a teenager
  • wakes up with a scar. She has lost everything and is in a strange unfamiliar place.
  • Then gets scammed and put into debt in the slums to a mob boss
  • She then, with the help of Jessie and Avalanche, though also on her own has to learn at this young age how to survive in the slums and build a life there. (This is the same age Tifa we see at the Nibelhiem flashback let that sink in)
  • Then, after successfully building a life, she finds the boy she loved, who she never thought would return alive but very unwell
  • She starts to notice Cloud is very different, colder and having these strange headaches
  • Cloud starts opening up to Tifa after the Jessie mission and she is overjoyed.
  • On a mission Cloud Falls presumbly to his death. she has just failed to save her last part of childhood and the boy she loves.
  • Later on she watches as her new home is destroyed. Her new friends are killed.Jessie her best friend is killed and she watches her die (Remind you of an event from her childhood)
  • She blames herself for not preventing avalanche from going too far against shinra. While also being apart of the group that caused Shinra to destroy the sector.
  • Barret mistakes her depression for anger
    • Tifa shows Cloud her scar since he doesnt think she is real a very personal and uncomfortable moment
    • Cloud almost kills her while under Sephiroths influence and she almost drowns in Mako
    • Cloud under influence of Sephiroth starts rejecting her comfort and words, and shoves her. Even with this she still tries
    to hold onto him with the whispers being forced to hold her back from getting to him.
  • Skipping to the end of Rebirth after losing her home and her friends. She forms a bond with Aerith and then once again
watches as her friend is murdered and the boy she loves in denial about it. Smiling as if nothing happens. and slowly going insane which she may think is because of the new twist of Rebirth for new players not Zack but the solider degradation.
They have replaced new players mystery about Zack with New players thinking Cloud is degrading. It seems a lot of OG players don't get this and just complain that the Zack twist is too obvious.
But anyway the point is at the end of the game Tifa is Broken completely. She doesn't have the comfort of Cloud since hes going insane and in denial. She doesn't know how to help him at all and cant even focus on that AS Her best Friend has died Again! she is in a cruel twist of Fate reliving her trauma again for the 3rd time in a row. Shes effectively shocked into silence and just drfiting along with the group. Throughout the whole game shes always had something to say or been keeping the group focused. Thats why the focus is on her at the end of Rebirth; the camera is showing you that Tifa is essentially helpless and directionless at this point in the story. Shes given up.
Everytime Tifa gains happiness, something comes and rips it away and kills it (miracle: she doesn't go insane herself like Sephiroth)

She's one of the more tragic characters, but people don't see that since, like her name she locks her emotions.
some people like the one who made that comment also don't see it though, since they think this story is Just about Cloud and Aerith
I just realised something If Tifa in this state at the end of Rebirth.
Then, in Part 3, it gets even worse for her!!!!

Tifa must be the Most Mentally Strong Character in Gaming!
the Devs have to give her the happiest end possible after all this XD
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
I just realised something If Tifa in this state at the end of Rebirth.
Then, in Part 3, it gets even worse for her!!!!

Tifa must be the Most Mentally Strong Character in Gaming!
the Devs have to give her the happiest end possible after all this XD
Tifa is everyone's ROCK in the game. Even in the OG game instruction manual in her profile it says something to that effect.
 

thetriplerhyme

Pro Adventurer
AKA
thetriplerhyme
One main reason I dislike the chemistry between Aerith and Cloud in Rebirth is the very fact that every date that these two go on are almost an exact mirror image of the date that Aerith and Zack went on before.

- its an illusion created by Jenova through Cloud and Aerith reacts to it~ C/A will never be able to accept it especially those die hard ones.

Zack is irreplaceable for Aerith she's trying to fill in the void through Cloud but in reality it wont be enough because ' he's not him and even with a new love here.. she still cannot forget about Zack.

In the same way that Cloud is holding on to Soldier persona because again its his own perception of a 'strong person to protect Tifa"
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
I think it was said earlier by someone and I agree, it just seems like full-on damage control at this point,
Yeah, they know the truth but it's a hard pill to swallow that's why every day they say something new lol their arguments are always changing because there's so much stuff they have to try and account for to make their ship work. So, one day it's a pity kiss, the next day it's a jealousy kiss, and the day after that the kiss holds no meaning at all bc a handhold is more intimate and romantic, blablablabla.

Like, at this point they're not even talking to CTs, they're just talking to themselves and driving themselves mad--which is why everyone should just let them.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Isn’t there a Japanese trope about “indirect kisses” when it comes to sharing food and drinks? So imagine how much a big deal it is to actually kiss.
 

Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
Isn’t there a Japanese trope about “indirect kisses” when it comes to sharing food and drinks? So imagine how much a big deal it is to actually kiss.

"But..but...but..the kiss is only when you have HA and optional therefore the color of the sky is pink which is the color of Aerith's dress so that means that Aerith's date is canon. Oh don't forget that their date is the only one that is in the end credits..."
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
"But..but...but..the kiss is only when you have HA and optional therefore the color of the sky is pink which is the color of Aerith's dress so that means that Aerith's date is canon. Oh don't forget that their date is the only one that is in the end credits..."
I have a rebuttal that is about as valid as that one.

“Tifa has a chocobo charm on her glove. Cloud’s hair looks like a chocobo. Cloti confirmed.”
 

Someonesbunny

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Rabbit
One main reason I dislike the chemistry between Aerith and Cloud in Rebirth is the very fact that every date that these two go on are almost an exact mirror image of the date that Aerith and Zack went on before.
I knew all the way at the beginning that Aerith is trying to use Cloud to fill a void in her heart and no matter how much she wants to fill it, Cloud will never be able to. I mean when she asked "told" Cloud to be her bodyguard, after he fell through the roof just like Zack and a date will be his reward, (sounds familiar) just like Zack

I generally agree with this sentiment. Writer intentions aside, that date really kind of felt like the culmination of all the "dates" she was trying to have with him, and, knowing the background that this was a recreation of a date with Zack, really made it feel like Aerith just "trying him on" the same way that you try on a pair of shoes at a store and walk around with them to see if it feels right, which really sort of cheapens it.

To clarify, however, I think the intention was to actually show her inner conflict and to resolve this in a way that we can see it, but I think that, while I enjoyed the game, the devs may have spent too much time developing the minigames and not enough time to really represent the emotional turmoil of Aerith's experience. There isn't enough time spent on her alone, trying to suss out her own thoughts and feelings, though this may actually just be a function of being a game solely in the perspective of Cloud. It is likely that they wanted to "show" rather than "tell" so they would insert these little moments where you might think that she's trying to deal, all to culminate in that final chapter, but this may be one of the few times that I think a little more exposition would have gone a long way.
 
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Graymouse

Pro Adventurer
In all seriousness. I came across a pretty good point explaining the entire GS dates between the Heroines.

With HA Tifa: Cloud on his own confirms with TIfa that "she is not getting ahead of herself again" and Cloud says not at all. The fact that Cloud held his hand out, Tifa shyly grasps it, and Cloud pulled her into his chest and leans in and kisses Tifa deeply. (such tension that has been built up through both games). (Cloud initiates all close contact)

With HA Aerith: We get a weird scene that she talks about Zack and then Aeirth forces herself next to him (which in english he lets out a audible sigh and she leans her head on his shoulder and Cloud response with "Aerith" as in what are you doing, In which she replies, just until the ride is over and in response from Cloud being the good friend that he is, holds her hand with interlocking fingers... (this is as physical as it gets in her HA)

Sorry, Edited to make some adjustments to my wording.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
"But..but...but..the kiss is only when you have HA and optional therefore the color of the sky is pink which is the color of Aerith's dress so that means that Aerith's date is canon. Oh don't forget that their date is the only one that is in the end credits..."
I don't argue w/ them bc I love myself too much, but really the only rebuttal to the whole "It's an optional kiss" is:

"Ok, if we're disregarding optional scenes you'll need to disregard the following...
  • Cloud's reaction to seeing Aerith's red dress
  • Cloud telling the flowers to learn how to talk to Aerith
  • Cloud and Aerith holding hands on the skywheel
Don't want to disregard all that? Okay, then I won't be disregarding the CT kiss either. Thanks!"
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I don't argue w/ them bc I love myself too much, but really the only rebuttal to the whole "It's an optional kiss" is:

"Ok, if we're disregarding optional scenes you'll need to disregard the following...
  • Cloud's reaction to seeing Aerith's red dress
  • Cloud telling the flowers to learn how to talk to Aerith
  • Cloud and Aerith holding hands on the skywheel
Don't want to disregard all that? Okay, then I won't be disregarding the CT kiss either. Thanks!"
But those are in the end credits. Checkmate!
 

Fakewings_

Rookie Adventurer
Let’s discuss the “what if” scenario.

If Aerith didn’t die, could the relationship between her and Cloud develop further? In a romantic sense?

In my opinion, their relationship might even hit a dead end and remain solely as friends, nothing more.

1. Before Cloud returned to be real Cloud, they couldn’t progress further, mainly because of Tifa’s existence. Throughout Rebirth, all moments, gestures leaning towards more than just friendship between Cloud and Aerith mostly occurred behind Tifa’s back. If such moments happened in front of Tifa, Cloud’s reaction would likely be one of panic due to Tifa’s suspicion, similar to when Aerith held Cloud’s arm in the mines. Everyone in the party knows there’s something between Cloud and Tifa, including Aerith. So if Cloud truly loves Aerith and dares to show it in front of Tifa, both Cloud and Aerith must suppress any emotions and prior relationship with Tifa. Especially Aerith when she becomes the betrayer of friend.
2. After Cloud returns to himself, he will remember his memories, including Zack’s sacrifice. And at that moment, Zack’s existence becomes the biggest barrier for Cloud and Aerith; when Cloud remembers Zack but still chooses to ignore everything to be with Aerith. Zack’s sacrifice becomes meaningless. And, of course, Cloud’ll be an asshole evermore.
Exactly, in both scenarios, any romantic relationship between Cloud and Aerith would be difficult to accept. Cloud and Aerith would undoubtedly be praised as soulmates, star-crossed lovers, just as Clerith defines it; at the same time, they become selfish individuals driven by personal desires.
 

liuliuliu

Pro Adventurer
I honestly think in OG there might be a chance if Aerith lives…but in Rebirth Cloud remembers Zack was in love with Aerith. It hits a dead end here…Bro is not going to touch his best friend’s girlfriend…I mean in his mind Zack and Aerith probably not even ex because he thinks Zack died as Aerith’s boyfriend
Honestly we have to admit that FF7 is not a story focusing on romantic love(IMO), and it is definitely not a moving on from your first love story…it is quite contrary, probably because it was wrote in 1997, people in Japan were quite depressed at that time, and also first love troop was still dominant at that time.

My long time head canon of the perfectly “move on” story will be Tifa restored Cloud’s mind and dead. And Cloud, after remembering his love for Tifa and accepting her death, moved on to a new live with Aerith later, who also moved on from Zack, and become a family in the 2 years span. But this definitely is NOT FF7. I probably can find some movie or novel with this plot though lol.
 

Rin

Pro Adventurer
Also, I'd say FF7 does have a 'move on' theme, it's just not about romance. Moving on from your trauma, from your past mistakes, from the things you can't change, etc. is certainly something FF7 is focused on but trying to co-opt that theme and make it about something it's not so that a certain ship can sail just entirely diminishes the story.
 

AncientGrimoire

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Grim
Can someone explain to me what the actual F this whole WcDonald’s thing is, and how it even remotely relates to CA lol I’m so confused like that ad has nothing to do with Final Fantasy? :huh:
 
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