SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Sacky]

I vaguely remember WcDonald's from the ACF days, but yes it was some CA claim. I can't remember if it was a fake dev interview or just something about how their Japanese friend at WcDonald's told them that everyone in Japan believed CA was canon. Also lots of discussion about how carp/koi fish symbolized romantic love in Japanese culture or something, lmfao. So there being a big ass fish in the lake in the Forgotten Capital = CA are soulmates. y'all are so lucky to have missed it. If you think the takes are wild now, you should have seen what we were working with back then!

To the earlier convo about Tifa's GS date. I took Tifa's "it's more complicated than that" not as her addressing Aerith's feelings for Zack, but an answer to Cloud's first question of why she hadn't talked to Aerith yet. It's not because (as Cloud assumes) it's a touchy subject because Aerith still has feelings for Zack, but because of the implications of what that means re: Cloud.

Also kinda funny that Cloud picked this as a "neutral" icebreaker after he got caught awkwardly staring at Tifa. Tifa was clearly right to ask him to let her break the news to Aerith, because even if his memory wasn't messed up, he clearly still lacks the social graces to handle these sorts of situations, lol.

The more I think about the Sector 5 dream date, the more I question why it's there. The church farewell/"confession" + Sleeping Forest scene afterward already does everything to address Aerith's feelings for Cloud/Zack, as well as getting the "White Materia" back, without the ick factor of Aerith "cajoling" (her words!) Cloud around on a "dream" date right after he's lost his mind at ToTA.

I guess, in addition to the meta-commentary about fate, it serves the purpose of some non-optional build up to Aerith's "confession." Because if you're not going the Aerith route in the game, then the only non-optional moment that gives you a sense of Aerith's feelings for Cloud is...back in Ch. 2 when Aerith calls their clock tower outing a "date"? So then the Church scene would truly feel like it's coming out of nowhere (though I guess the "one-sided confession" Ch. 14 resolution in Remake is too, lmao). The whole thing is so strange.

It's the one thing that just doesn't fit in the story. Well the ending having Aerith say Goodbye 10 times in a row aswell. In hoping the ultimania explains what the point of that sequence is. To me it would have worked better if Cloud never got to speak to Aerith till advent after that sequence. It being a recreation of the Crisis Core date is very interesting though

 

[Sacky]

I only have the start of the post; if someone else can find the other one in an Old LTD post on this website somewhere, I found it recently
but i only copied down the start of it.

The interview occurred at 06.03.07 at WacDonald's, the Japanese version of McDonald's, to be exact. If you're wondering why they're both guys, most of my friends that are girls here doesn't play videogames that much and some I have lost contact with. sob Anyway, the Q/A is written exactly as what I've gotten from the two Japanese FFVII fans I've interviewed with.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

I mean… even without that, there is no way there isn’t a Cloti fanbase in Japan.

It was a Japanese Cloti sending Nojima death threats after The Game Awards trailer so… yeah there’s a Cloti fan base in Japan

 

[Graymouse]

So if we gave Aerith a phoenix down or cast Life on Aerith would that bring her back, so that she can be with Cloud?

 

[GamerSkull]

It was a Japanese Cloti sending Nojima death threats after The Game Awards trailer so… yeah there’s a Cloti fan base in Japan

Ew, that’s messed up. Nobody should stoop to that.

 

[AncientGrimoire]

Well the ending having Aerith say Goodbye 10 times in a row aswell.

This is still to me the most questionable thing they’ve ever done.

It’s like they asked the dev team how they wanted to handle Aerith’s death and they all pitched in their ideas and decided to include all of them.

 

[c.lupara]

It was a Japanese Cloti sending Nojima death threats after The Game Awards trailer so… yeah there’s a Cloti fan base in Japan

I still wonder today how these extreme CT and CA didn't understand that it was all a build-up for what was actually "Aerith's farewell to the party"

 

[GamerSkull]

I still wonder today how these extreme CT and CA didn't understand that it was all a build-up for what was actually "Aerith's farewell to the party"

Yeah, if devs wanted to focus on Aerith and Cloud’s romance at all then Rebirth was absolutely the game to do that in. But they still chose not too… on top of that, they’ve yet again increased Zack’s presence and importance.

 

[insanehobbit]

lol, yeah the number of goodbyes really was a case of diminishing returns. You could argue there's:
1) Church
2) Sleeping Forest
3) Altar (Pre-Boss fights)
4) Post-Sephiroth fight, disappearing hand-hold thing
5) Altar (Post-Boss fights, Cloud telling her to wake up)
6) CGI ending

I feel like there's gotta be a 7th that I'm missing, because they would be so annoying like that, but also, why? lmao. Sometimes less is more people!! (I say as they add 500 new mini-games to part 3 out of spite. Beat Gears & Gambits in Hard Mode to Unlock Cloud's Memory #1 in the Lifestream!)

The sector 5 date is just such a weird place to leave Aerith's character in this game. Ship-wise, it really feels like beating a dead horse. Reviving a zombie-ship that had almost no development during the game just to brutally murder it in the span of 10 minutes, is like...I guess it gives some clarity to where everyone stands before she dies. (But again, does this really count when Cloud is so out of his mind and if this isn't even our Aerith???)

 

[AncientGrimoire]

lol, yeah the number of goodbyes really was a case of diminishing returns. You could argue there's:
1) Church
2) Sleeping Forest
3) Altar (Pre-Boss fights)
4) Post-Sephiroth fight, disappearing hand-hold thing
5) Altar (Post-Boss fights, Cloud telling her to wake up)
6) CGI ending

I feel like there's gotta be a 7th that I'm missing, because they would be so annoying like that, but also, why? lmao. Sometimes less is more people!! (I say as they add 500 new mini-games to part 3 out of spite. Beat Gears & Gambits in Hard Mode to Unlock Cloud's Memory #1 in the Lifestream!)

The sector 5 date is just such a weird place to leave Aerith's character in this game. Ship-wise, it really feels like beating a dead horse. Reviving a zombie-ship that had almost no development during the game just to brutally murder it in the span of 10 minutes, is like...I guess it gives some clarity to where everyone stands before she dies. (But again, does this really count when Cloud is so out of his mind and if this isn't even our Aerith???)

There has to be like at least 5 that just take place at the Forgotten Capital alone

I’ve already said before as well how deeply unsettling they make Aerith look in these scenes, like something out of a horror game

 

[Graymouse]

One should ask why in the world has this game got so convoluted. Have mercy on those who never played the OG. or read any out of game materials. I can only imagine how difficult it would be coming into the Retriliogy not knowing anything about FF7!

 

[GamerSkull]

So I was reading some old posts in other threads and I saw some people bring up Final Fantasy Tactics and Dissidia as proof that Cloud loves Aerith. But these are AUs essentially.

But if they count, one must wonder why Kingdom Hearts 2 isn’t mentioned?

 

[Hix]

The sector 5 date is just such a weird place to leave Aerith's character in this game. Ship-wise, it really feels like beating a dead horse. Reviving a zombie-ship that had almost no development during the game just to brutally murder it in the span of 10 minutes, is like...I guess it gives some clarity to where everyone stands before she dies. (But again, does this really count when Cloud is so out of his mind and if this isn't even our Aerith???)

The Sector 5 date is strange and depressing by design.

One can't ignore the sequence is painted on the easel of Aerith and Zack's date. Aerith has been trying to recreate that romance with Cloud from the beginning, there's parallels in almost every scene they share and she's doggedly stuck by it despite his stand offish, at best, reaction.

But here it's a dream date, it's symbolic of her thoughts and feelings. The same date is occuring but it's not going to plan, it's just not the same. While in Crisis Core people kept remarking ZA looked like a couple, here they say the opposite. In CC she sees a gift she wants and Zack buys it for her, here it isn't able to happen.

It's symbolic of her feelings at this time, capped off by the admission she is unsure if she likes Cloud or like likes him.

This is closure for her, I think. She's about to exit the stage permanently, she's spent two games over two weeks agonising over whether this guy who fell into her life the exact same way as the man she loves was someone who could take his place in her heart. The Sector 5 dream date answers, no.

 

[GamerSkull]

The Sector 5 date is strange, weird and depressing, by design.

One can't ignore it's painted on the easel of Aerith and Zack's date. Aerith has been trying to recreate that romance with Cloud from the beginning, there's parallels in almost every scene and she's doggedly stuck by it.

But here it's a dream date, it's symbolic of her thoughts and feelings. The same date is occuring but it's not going to plan, it's not the same. While in Crisis Core people kept remarking ZA looked like a couple, here they say the opposite. In CC she sees a gift she wants and Zack buys it for her, here it isn't able to happen.

It's symbolic of her feelings at this time, capped off by the admission she is unsure if she likes Cloud or like likes him.

This is closure for her, I think. She's about to exit the stage permanently, she's spent two games over two weeks agonising over whether this guy who fell into her life the exact same way as the man she loves was someone who could take his place in her heart. The Sector 5 dream date answers, no.

Another thing I don’t see others mentioning is that it is implied Aerith writes NPTK right after Tifa tells her Cloud remembers Zack. They both occur in the hotel lobby. There has to be a reason they showed Tifa saying it to Aerith in this location.

 

[Stiggie]

I always hear cleriths say stuff like "be honest, if aerith had lived cloud would have ended up with her, not tifa", and I'm like "...no? Not even close? I give her like a 1% chance, and that's only IF Cloud doesn't regain his memories, because then it's 0"


And rebirth really shows this. What is the dynamic tifa and cloud are going through in rebirth? They're very obviously two shy people who are severely in love and are starting an actual physical relationship during the events of rebirth. Literally all that's keeping them from just being full on official is clouds mental breakdown, which Tifa will be the one to heal in an event that strengthens their love even more.

What is the dynamic cloud and aerith are going through? Aerith is going from explicitely using cloud as a zack stand in to developing feelings for cloud and trying to figure out if those are really even for cloud, or just still zack, and IF theyre even romantic. And cloud is slowly going from being extremely annoyed with her behavior to enjoying her company while still actively trying to romance tifa.


One of these girls is doomed to fail, and it ain't tifa

 

[Eerie]

The sector 5 date is just such a weird place to leave Aerith's character in this game.

I'd argue that the dream date Aerith is probably not "our" Aerith, which is why we have the church and the Sleeping Forest back to back which... looks weird. Waiting patiently for the Ultimania but I thought there was a chance for it to be COLW Aerith personally.

 

[Someonesbunny]

I always hear cleriths say stuff like "be honest, if aerith had lived cloud would have ended up with her, not tifa", and I'm like "...no? Not even close? I give her like a 1% chance, and that's only IF Cloud doesn't regain his memories, because then it's 0"

It hits a bit harder this time too since Cloud has numerous romantic moments with Tifa that culminate in a kiss and all while Aerith is still alive, then a dream date happens in a dream pocket dimension where, presumably, neither Zack nor Tifa exist, and it still finds its way to not working out.

 

[c.lupara]

It hits a bit harder this time too since Cloud has numerous romantic moments with Tifa that culminate in a kiss and all while Aerith is still alive, then a dream date happens in a dream pocket dimension where, presumably, neither Zack nor Tifa exist, and it still finds its way to not working out.

A wise man would say "destiny"
.
.
.
. Oh...

 

[AncientGrimoire]

It hits a bit harder this time too since Cloud has numerous romantic moments with Tifa that culminate in a kiss and all while Aerith is still alive, then a dream date happens in a dream pocket dimension where, presumably, neither Zack nor Tifa exist, and it still finds its way to not working out.

Your post highlights to me another interesting parallel.

Cloud has to be led by Aerith herself to the church, supposedly “their spot”.

But which other character, multiple times, somehow, always, finds themselves at Aerith’s church…

 

[insanehobbit]

It's not so much that I have a problem with the Sector Five date itself, more so its placement in the game. This is essentially the last extended sequence where the player sees Aerith, so the last image we're left of her "alive" is this. Is this what her character boils down to? I understand her conflicting feelings over Zack/Cloud make up a big part of her character, but here....the White Materia/saving the world almost feels like an afterthought? The balance just feels off.

It also makes what she says in the Sleeping Forest sequence after feel disingenuous. How can she say she's been trying so hard to find the real Cloud when she just made him recreate her first date with Zack? (I'm firmly in the camp that those weren't the "same" Aerith until the Ultimania proves otherwise, but the game clearly wants us to think they're the same person, at least for our first playthrough, so my problem remains).

It's just strange where after ToTP, I thought it was clear where they were taking the two heroines. Tifa would primarily be about her own past/working through that past with Cloud. Aerith would mostly be about her Cetra heritage/saving the planet, her feelings for Zack/Cloud would still be present, but secondary. I was right about Tifa, but could not have been more wrong about Aerith, lmao. Not gonna pretend I know better than the devs, but I really feel like this would have been a much cleaner way to go about this. Instead, I feel like they've essentially sacrificed Aerith's character for the sake of servicing Zack's storyline/development.

Regardless, Ch. 14 is definitely giving 'pulling an all-nighter, chugging three Red Bulls to write the first draft of a 10k research paper due the next morning even though you've known about it all semester' energy. Shoving in a bunch of development for Aerith in a couple of hours that should have been spread out throughout. If they wanted to go this route, then honestly, there being more of an actual "love triangle" to debate would have given more weight to these like 15 endings. But since they also wanted to make that less ambiguous...we're just left with an ending that leaves me confused (not in terms of where the narrative is actually going, that's pretty obvious if you've played the OG, but more in the...why did they make this her characterization right before she dies kind of way).

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

FFVII has always had a theme of moving on. If acknowledging your pain, your failures, your mistakes. It's there when Barret and Tifa admit that in the beginning, Avalanche wasn't about saving the planet to them, it was about revenge on Shinra. It's there when Vincent declares that the one who should have been stuffed in a coffin is Hojo. Its there much later when Rufus secretly funds the WRO to atone for Shinra's actions.

Here's the thing though, Tifa is not a mistake for Cloud, Cloud is not a mistake for Tifa. They're the solution for each other. Why is it so hard for Aerith to move on from Zack? Even leaving out how Cloud is not himself, how tightly tied to Tifa he is, Zack was not a mistake. And for this games themes, that's kinda that.

 

[Jane Fane]

The narrative choices made for Aerith's death definitely give me some anxiety about the LS sequence to come. Just in the sense that they're both emotional linchpins in the story, both highly anticipated scenes with sky-high expectations. I guess I just have to cling like a madwoman to the mini-LS sequence we already got in Gongaga. It was moving and beautiful and did everything it needed to. I hope they stick to that formula.

 

[JaeKony]

Played through Chapter 14 in JP and when you approach the alter where Aerith is praying, she says みんなが 好きなんです (I like everyone). Not sure if it’s supposed to be a callback to the scene earlier where she tells Cloud she doesn’t know what type of like she feels about him, but it feels purposeful that this line was included after she “confesses” to Cloud that she doesn’t know what type of like she feels for him.

 

[Empyrea]

Those that think that have been watching too many fake ass ROMCOM anime's. That is absolutely not how the Japanese look at PDE in Japan. Of course the Japanese are very reserved when it comes to relationships. It is just their culture. Everyone hold hands while walking around in public (friends, family, and yes of course those in relationships) However, you will never! NEVER! ever ever see two Japanese people kiss in public in any circumstance other than at a wedding. Even then, it is just a peck on the lips barley touching! Showing PDE in Japan is looked down upon.

All that to say, since this is a JRPG, and the Devs are Japanese there is no way in hell that interlocking hand holding is showing more love than a deep kiss on the lips that is done in a very private and romantic situation.

Have they never heard of all the joking how reaching holding hands is the plot finally going somewhere while a kiss takes foreveeeeer? Avid manga readers I know always wait for forever just to see a kiss.

Those figures look awesome.

My sister is currently obsessed with the Tifa figure (when I'm the Tifa fan between us)...but she thinks Cloud looks a lil off (while I think his effect piece is super distracting).

To the earlier convo about Tifa's GS date. I took Tifa's "it's more complicated than that" not as her addressing Aerith's feelings for Zack, but an answer to Cloud's first question of why she hadn't talked to Aerith yet. It's not because (as Cloud assumes) it's a touchy subject because Aerith still has feelings for Zack, but because of the implications of what that means re: Cloud.

This would also be my take. Like, "It's a touchy subject because she's still got feelings for Zack, huh?" while Tifa thinks, "Well, it's that and you remembering all this without being there." It connects nicely to the plot.

The more I think about the Sector 5 dream date, the more I question why it's there. The church farewell/"confession" + Sleeping Forest scene afterward already does everything to address Aerith's feelings for Cloud/Zack, as well as getting the "White Materia" back, without the ick factor of Aerith "cajoling" (her words!) Cloud around on a "dream" date right after he's lost his mind at ToTA.

I guess, in addition to the meta-commentary about fate, it serves the purpose of some non-optional build up to Aerith's "confession." Because if you're not going the Aerith route in the game, then the only non-optional moment that gives you a sense of Aerith's feelings for Cloud is...back in Ch. 2 when Aerith calls their clock tower outing a "date"? So then the Church scene would truly feel like it's coming out of nowhere (though I guess the "one-sided confession" Ch. 14 resolution in Remake is too, lmao). The whole thing is so strange.

Haha, I say strange is putting it lightly! But it is the most charitable, I think xP The strangest thing to me is still ending in the Forgotten City because...I feel it's leaves Pt 3 with so much to do, among other things.

So if we gave Aerith a phoenix down or cast Life on Aerith would that bring her back, so that she can be with Cloud?

This here is why they changed the description of Phoenix Down xD Now it says "recovers from K.O." xD FF12 even pokes fun at this. The Phoenix Down entry says that asking a phoenix for revival must require a tribute of equal value and the strore-bought ones are nowhere near precious enough for that. Going off memory here, so I could be wrong, though xP

Edit to add: Found it!

The undying phoenix is said to call back souls from the heavens, but to win the attention of such fabled bird, you must give up a feather as an offering. The best are the downy feathers of the tail... hence the term phoenix down, see? Mark well that not just any feather will do. Depending on quality and size, the blessing received varies greatly. Displeased? You get what you pay for.
Kirrik, Pugilist, Aletap Rumors

Your post highlights to me another interesting parallel.

Cloud has to be led by Aerith herself to the church, supposedly “their spot”.

But which other character, multiple times, somehow, always, finds themselves at Aerith’s church…

And going by Remake, without the assistance of the Whispers. Iirc, the Whispers redirected Cloud's fall to Sector 5 this time. How curious...

Regardless, Ch. 14 is definitely giving 'pulling an all-nighter, chugging three Red Bulls to write the first draft of a 10k research paper due the next morning even though you've known about it all semester' energy.

That was funnier for me than it should be

 

[hytekz]

The narrative choices made for Aerith's death definitely give me some anxiety about the LS sequence to come. Just in the sense that they're both emotional linchpins in the story, both highly anticipated scenes with sky-high expectations. I guess I just have to cling like a madwoman to the mini-LS sequence we already got in Gongaga. It was moving and beautiful and did everything it needed to. I hope they stick to that formula.

LS sequence being the favorite scene of Nojima and Nomura and seeing how the premise in Gongaga was handled, I say we should look forward to it.
The only thing I'm "worried" it's if they include Zack or Aerith into it. I hope Cloud thinking he saved Aerith he's solved before this point, maybe Sephiroth using this at the northern Crater to mind-break Cloud even more before Nibelheim reveal?
I wouldn't mind Aerith guiding Tifa towards Cloud, but I want, like the OG, the whole sequence being just about them.