SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

thetriplerhyme

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thetriplerhyme
I almost forget this S--->C lmao

OMG thanks for putting the letters I'm confused with letters on @Ryushikaze 😁😁

Hahha btw Sephiroth showing in Gold Saucer i bet he wanted a date with Cloud too 🤣🤣

How can he have a date to everyone except Sephy 🤣🤣🤣


( if it not he's already in cloud's head all the time) hahah kidding
 

thetriplerhyme

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It needs to happen ! Bro's wasting an entire game trying to get rid of the childhood crush ! lmao

- two kids are ruining his plan hahaha for meteor ( i honestly thought we're gonna see Genesis though the guys soo hilarious in CCR)
 

Hellenic

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I can get behind that. Like I was saying, with only the 1997 material or parts of the Compilation stuff, it's totally ok. It's just that I thought we were going somewhere else with Rebirth. Maybe I'll have to do other runs. But I really felt we we're leaving this basic love triangle behind us. And that last date didn't work for me.
I do wish they did a bit more with Aerith that didn't just involve Cloud, but it is what it is.
 

Hellenic

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Hellenic
Does Tifa knows that Aerith as a thing for Cloud though? The only conversation we know they probably had is about their first love, so Tifa's feelings for Cloud and Aerith's for Zack.
I don't think they ever even got to the bit about Tifas first love, couse remember, it got interrupted and i don't think that continuation ever happened.
 

Stiggie

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Ps, am I the only one who hates the "because you weren't there" line?

It kept wondering what that line reminded me off, and it finally hit me. It's team four star. SE actually turned Zack into Yamcha.


Like, what the hell SE? Why did you decide to frame it like that? I know this isn't Aeriths fault but it's like with Jenny from forest gump. Superimposing clips of a girl having fun with other men with a dude fighting for his life trying to get back to her is NOT a good look for the girl, regardless of how understandable and justifiable it is. In a story you need to do better, you better show that the girl is doing all this because she CAN'T be with the dude who is trying to get back to her, and not just going "nah, I much prefer you over that other dude that the game is showing going through hell for me, after all, you barely tolerate my company".
 

GamerSkull

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No, this I vehemently oppose, this I find preposterous.

Why on earth should Tifa care about Aeriths feelings for Cloud? These things are in no way similar.

Lets take the worst case scenario for Aerith since her behavior should be acceptable in all situations, as Tifas is.

Here we have this girl giving a flower meant for lovers to Cloud, and then smiles when she realizes he gave it to Tifa, this girl who encourages Cloud to go after his special person, this girl who befriends Tifa and pretends to be supportive of her, even telling Tifa to follow her heart. Yeah she forgot her memories of the future, but she didn't forget literally everything she did in Midgar I hope.

Not that it matters because Rebirth is where the real issues lie.

This girl then hears Tifa talk about how she and Cloud grew up together in ToTP, and then hears about everything they've gone through in Nibelheim. Tifa then chooses to open up to Aerith about her concerns about Cloud. Which is then followed up by a series of events where Tifa and Aerith confide in each other concerning their fears and worries about their respective Soldiers. Where Aerith engages Tifa in talks about "their first loves". Where Aerith talks to Cloud about not taking Tifa for granted, being jealous of the bond Tifa and Cloud have, realizing that Cloud used to sit on the water tower hoping Tifa would wave at him. Hear talks alongside Yuffie about how Tifa already had a massive crush on Cloud as a child. Sees Cloud lose his mind over Tifa in a bikini and how she flirts with him. Hear Cloud shyly giggle about the idea of multiple Tifas. See them go through Gongaga together and how close they are emotionally. See him scream his lungs out when he thinks she's hurt, see him go catatonic at the prospect. See Cloud sit at her bed, hear the people tease them about almost kissing. Pretending to be supportive and on team "you go girl" in that moment. See Tifa and Cloud on a date in chapter 8. See Cloud jump at the chance to do anything with Tifa while she has to force every single interaction out of him.

And rather than thinking "hmm, I've been using Cloud as sort of a stand in for Zack, but I'm starting to kinda like him, maybe I should check with Tifa about her feelings regarding him because she just lost her best friend and I've been setting myself up as her confidante for her worries regarding Cloud and the two of them seem to have a huge history and really seem to like each other so perhaps it's better if I recuse myself before I REALLY catch feelings, rather than causing my best friend to have her heart broken the same way mine was." she instead just goes "well, I'm starting to like this guy, so fuck it, live in the now, who cares about other people! I know that Cloud and my best friend are constantly excited to do stuff together and are being heavily suggested by everyone to be in love, but screw that, I'll just force my company on him when Tifa isn't looking! He has clear mental problems clouding his recollections of his past with Tifa so I can probably get between that LOL"

You're telling me that freaking YUFFIE, the 16 year old, understands that there is a thing going on between Cloud and Tifa, but the freaking empathetic ancient just had no clue? If Aerith doesn't know she should, because she should have asked! As any real friend would. And this would be so easily solved as well. During the flashback to her talk with Tifa in the GS date, just have her ask Tifa. "Can I just ask...do you like Cloud?", have Tifa respond with a suspiciously defensive denial, have Aerith reply with "..is it ok then if....if I try?", Tifa, in an shy panic that belies her true feelings: "no...I...ofcourse not, I don't mind...", cue Aerith walking with Tifa looking heartbroken.

But the game didn't do that, instead it sets up a dynamic where Tifa is helping Aerith with Zack, and Aerith is helping Tifa with Cloud. Always the dynamic is Tifa and Cloud talking together, then Tifa talking with Aerith, with the topic either being Tifa helping Aerith with information regarding Zack, or Aerith helping Tifa with Cloud. And yet, within hours of Tifa telling Aerith that Cloud confided in her that he knew Zack Aerith is writing love songs where she takes one of Tifas most treasured memories, and stabs her in the back with it by incorporating it into a love song about how she and Cloud wouldn't need that shit.

The "homewrecker" allegations didn't just spring up out of the ground for no reason, I am not exaggerating when I say this version of the character sickens me. This version of the character is a snake who worms their way into your good graces by either pretending to be your friend, or by forcing her company on you until you accept her, but will never think of the feelings of other people before she acts. I have known people like this in real life, they were all disgusting selfish assholes who didn't care about the feelings of their friends because they thought about relationships as "well, they're free people aren't they, we can do what we want", yeah, you can, I am not saying it's illegal, just that this is the behavior we see in people who just do not care about the feelings of others.

And what is Tifas supposed "equally as bad" here?

"Oh, the girl I've been helping getting to terms with the death/disappearance of the boy she loved whom I entrusted with all my worries about the boy I love has now decided that she's over the guy she's always talking about and now wants the guy I'M always talking about, whom I've been in love with for 7 years and was finally growing closer with. I suppose I should get out of her way....

What? This is not the same, it's absurd to even propose that they are.
Uh… not sure I agree with all that.

Also, OG Aerith was also acutely aware of Tifa’s feelings for Cloud and she still tries to go for it. I’m not sure why you’re implying it’s only THIS version.

I also think it’s more complex. And just having Aerith confront Tifa and say “Can I go after Cloud?” is I don’t know… kinda weirder. Especially because Aerith is unsure herself. Because I’d be getting some actual competition signals from that that I don’t actually get with the way it is now.

Plus, let’s be honest. If Aerith asked Tifa for permission to go after Cloud and Tifa is shown to be visibly upset by this, I think it would make people dislike Aerith. Like genuinely. And it would actually confirm that Aerith is truly going after Cloud… and would completely dispel the idea that she is definitely not over Zack, which I think was the intent.
 
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Hellenic

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They were going to talk about their "first love" after the Shinra 8 cruise. We know from Yuffie GS date that Tifa told her she had a crush on Cloud. So 1+1 = 2. Aerith knows.
Oh the Yuffie date confirms that Tifa did tell Aerith? I figured they never got a followup discussion to the Shinra 8 one they were about to have, but i guess i was wrong.
 

Yoru

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Ps, am I the only one who hates the "because you weren't there" line?

It kept wondering what that line reminded me off, and it finally hit me. It's team four star. SE actually turned Zack into Yamcha.


Like, what the hell SE? Why did you decide to frame it like that? I know this isn't Aeriths fault but it's like with Jenny from forest gump. Superimposing clips of a girl having fun with other men with a dude fighting for his life trying to get back to her is NOT a good look for the girl, regardless of how understandable and justifiable it is. In a story you need to do better, you better show that the girl is doing all this because she CAN'T be with the dude who is trying to get back to her, and not just going "nah, I much prefer you over that other dude that the game is showing going through hell for me, after all, you barely tolerate my company".
Well I didn't understand it like that but I see where you're coming from.
To me it was just Marlene being nice to Zack. "Yeah i think she likes him. You're supposed to be dead bro, she tried to move on" (narrator voice : she failed)
 

Stiggie

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Uh… not sure I agree with all that.

Also, OG Aerith was also acutely aware of Tifa’s feelings for Cloud and she still tries to go for it. I’m not sure why you’re implying it’s only THIS version.

I also think it’s more complex. And just having Aerith confront Tifa and say “Can I go after Cloud?” is i don’t know… kinda weirder. Because I’d be getting some actual completion signals from that that I don’t actually get with the way it is now.
Aerith in the OG from the start presented herself as a love rival to Tifa, rather than a friend. In trying to make Aerith and Tifas friendship more clear in Rebirth they also made Aeriths behavior less acceptable. Aerith also simply doesn't actually do anything in the OG, that's one of my main gripes with the idea of an LTD in the OG, while Aerith from the start talks about dates she never actually puts any bite to her bark. And if I had to name the worst part of Aerith in the OG then it too would be the things she DOES do in that regard. I think her asking Cait Sith for a love reading with Cloud while Tifa is there, was actually a bitch move. (I think you can do it with Tifa there right? Don't remember).

Regardless, I don't care about people trying to romance the love interests of strangers, only those of people they pretend to be friends with.

oh, should have added to me last post about this that in this version this Aerith doesn't even stop after death, never seems to think "damn, I'm dead, maybe I should stop playing mindgames with Cloud who is clearly not in a good state for that". Nah, she's rather take him on post-mortem dates to tell him she loves him (if you take that interpretation) I am sure that will help him move on and not feel guilty.
 

Yoru

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Oh the Yuffie date confirms that Tifa did tell Aerith? I figured they never got a followup discussion to the Shinra 8 one they were about to have, but i guess i was wrong.
Yuffie just say that Tifa told her she had a big crush on Cloud when they were kids. I don't know why she would tell Yuffie and not Aerith when we know with the Shinra 8 journey they'll talk about first love "next time"

I understood it like "We had a girl talk last night and.." since the girls share the same room at Gold Saucer (we rent 2, one for boys, one for girls)
After the first GS stop, we go Gongaga and Tifa knows about Zack.... sooooo..
 

Ryushikaze

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Tim, Ryu
This is Love Square right?
a) Z --> A --> C <--> T (this is if we take Marlene's word as the truth and Aerith doesn't love Zack anymore)
b) Z <--> A <-?-> C <--> T (Aerith is stuck but she also has feelings for Cloud, and Cloud is ambiguous)
c) Z --> A <--> C <-- T (THIS IS CLERITH FAVORITE LOL)

I almost forget this S--->C lmao
When you get Zack into it it's more like a love constellation, since he forms the base of a plausible Z <-> A ?-> C triangle to go with the A ?-> C <-> T triangle.

OMG thanks for putting the letters I'm confused with letters on @Ryushikaze 😁😁
Sorry, I was speaking generically with ABC. It doesn't help that those letters match up with some of the initials of people in the LTD.

And yes, there's no way Aerith doesn't know that Tifa likes Cloud if Yuffie's in on it. Same with if Yuffie knows Cloud likes Tifa.

Plus we know she was told about it because it comes up in Traces of Two Pasts.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Ps, am I the only one who hates the "because you weren't there" line?
It's not there in JP I think. I don't remember the FR translation at this particular point.

Oh the Yuffie date confirms that Tifa did tell Aerith? I figured they never got a followup discussion to the Shinra 8 one they were about to have, but i guess i was wrong.
Yuffie just say that Tifa told her she had a big crush on Cloud when they were kids. I don't know why she would tell Yuffie and not Aerith when we know with the Shinra 8 journey they'll talk about first love "next time"
Actually I'm not sure Yuffie knows rather than just tries to push buttons just to have fun at Cloud's expense (since she also states that Tifa forgot about him in Midgar and I think it's more that she didn't want to think about him rather than forget him because it was too painful, since she believed he didn't come and know what happened to her and Nibelheim).

Aerith in the OG from the start presented herself as a love rival to Tifa, rather than a friend.
This is Nojima realising right when they were releasing the OG that he had messed up; he never wanted to present them like that, in his mind they were always friends. But when a coder working with them asked him if they hated each other, he realised that they did not have enough interactions to let players think they were friends. I think that comment has pursued him for a long time before he could correct it with REMAKE and REBIRTH.
 

Stiggie

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This is Nojima realising right when they were releasing the OG that he had messed up; he never wanted to present them like that, in his mind they were always friends. But when a coder working with them asked him if they hated each other, he realised that they did not have enough interactions to let players think they were friends. I think that comment has pursued him for a long time before he could correct it with REMAKE and REBIRTH.
Yes, and in trying to correct that he did something worse, MUCH worse.
 

GamerSkull

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Yes, and in trying to correct that he did something worse, MUCH worse.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. lol

Because the other alternative is basically not showing Aerith and Tifa’s friendship or completely playing down Aerith and Cloud’s relationship.

Both of which, I think… would suck to see. And I say this as a Cloti shipper.
 
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Stiggie

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Stiggie
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. lol

Because the other alternative is basically not showing Aerith and Tifa’s friendship or completely playing down Aerith and Cloud’s relationship.

Both of which, I think… would suck to see.
No, there are absolutely ways to show Aerith getting closer to Cloud that do not involve not taking Tifas feelings into account, such as, showing her taking Tifas feelings into account.

Yes, this is a problem with the LTD in general where it tries to have it's cookie and eat it too. But there are definitely ways to present this that are more flattering than simply painting Aerith as the worst person imaginable. Something like for instance, Idk, maybe NOT interposing Aeriths date with Cloud with shots of Zack trying to get back to her. Maybe, NOT illustrate the bond between Tifa and Aerith through them helping each other with SPECIFICALLY Zack and Cloud.

Here's a thought, show her actually conflicted about getting between Cloud and Tifa.
 

Yoru

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Yes, and in trying to correct that he did something worse, MUCH worse.
Honestly it was kinda fine during the game. She has strange moments but it's more that she's feeling lonely than anything else. She's supportive of Tifa. Her "dates" are pretty harmless. She wants to be a part of Cloud's life, but Cloud show his true colors quite quickly. I was legit shocked to be honest "wow they're really killing the love triangle just like that ?"

Aaaaaand comes this finale bs date and that strange Church confession. I didn't like it. But whatever. It can be understood like a platonic relation too. To each their own.
 
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Eerie

Fire and Blood
Did he though? I think we're all coloured by our life experiences at this point when we see what Aerith does. Personally, I understand you, I've known someone like that too and he gave me the creeps tbh. However Aerith has a background, she represents Death, not only because she dies, but also because she is unable to move on from Zack.

Does she think she's hurting Tifa? No, not at all. Personally I will say this but I am not sure that Aerith knows or understands the bond between Cloud and Tifa. We'll see what the Ultimania says and I'll revise my opinion about her then, but when she tells Cloud about her jealousy (TWICE! Once in Kalm and once in Nibelheim), she always specifies that it's because they're childhood friends. She sees that beautiful bond they have, and she would want the same. Why? Because it's not about them being childhood friends, it's about them being in love with each other. So she sees that and goes "oh that's because they're childhood friends, how lucky! I wish I'd have a childhood friend who'd treat me the same too!"; however this is what she sees without understanding that the reason she yearns for this is because this is how Zack treated her: as someone special.

Because Cloud is very nice to her (and everyone but she doesn't necessarily sees it), she thinks that maybe she is special to him. She has unwanted feelings that grow over time, because duh, on one hand she still loves Zack and is conflicted about those new feelings growing and Zack not being there. So, of course, she tries. Cloud does indulge her, seeing how she misses Zack and al, but does not, I think, understand her feelings. To him, Zack and her are a pair, and it doesn't even cross his mind that she'd want more.

Aerith lacks the social cues to understand the bond between Cloud and Tifa, which leads her to be not enough on guard. Plus the guy reminds her really really a lot of her first love too. She is messed up in some way, stuck and trying to move with the wrong guy - these kind of things happen, she's a complex character as I said.
 

GamerSkull

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Honestly it was kinda fine during the game. She has strange moments but it's more that she's feeling lonely than anything else. She's supportive of Tifa. Her "dates" are pretty harmless. She wants to be a part of Cloud's life, but Cloud show his true colors quite quickly. I was legit shocked to be honest "wow they're really killing the love triangle just like that ?"

Aaaaaand comes this finale bs date and that strange Church confession. I didn't like it. But whatever. It can be understood like a platonic relation.
I think the final S5 “date” is the place where it actually feels a little odd and almost an issue.

Before then, I never got bad vibes from either Tifa or Aerith’s interactions from Cloud other than Cloud seems more proactive with Tifa and Aerith seems more proactive with Cloud.
 

Stiggie

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Stiggie
Honestly it was kinda fine during the game. She has strange moments but it's more that she's feeling lonely than anything else. She's supportive of Tifa. Her "dates" are pretty harmless. She wants to be a part of Cloud's life, but Cloud show his true colors quite quickly. I was legit shocked to be honest "wow they're really killing the love triangle just like that ?"

Aaaaaand comes this finale bs date and that strange Church confession. I didn't like it. But whatever. It can be understood like a platonic relation.
Yeah, which is why I am not saying Aerith is horrible PERIOD, because I am leaving them the wiggle room for part three of essentially going "she was trying to work out her issues with Zack, but never really wanted to get between them".

When I talk about "this version" of the character I don't mean the rebirth version, I mean the version Cleriths want to make me believe Aerith is.
To be clear, I don't think, even in a max affection Aerith playthrough, that Aerith is genuinely trying to get with Cloud. Partially because that would actually make me hate her, which I don't as of yet, and which I don't want to.

Does she think she's hurting Tifa? No, not at all.
Would this not make it worse? "oh I'm sorry, I never even considered how my actions might affect you".
 
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