SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Graymouse]

You know, reading that back, it reminds me that... there really is no equivalent LTD of any sort for DQV, even though picking a girl to marry and have kids with is literally a major plot point of that game, as opposed to the sideshow it is in FF7/R. And maybe it is because nothing bad happens to the lady you don't pick.

Yeah, the what ifs's will get you every single time. What if Aerith would have lived through the plot of FF7. Would have things changed? I know that AC probably wouldn't have happened, at least not the same way.

I think it would be unfair to Aerith to not assume that she and Cloud could have ended up living together at the end of the events of FF7 vice Tifa. At least it would have given Aerith a fair chance to develop a more concrete relationship with Cloud.

I think also, a lot of people are forgetting that the events of FF7 story only takes place in a matter of weeks, not years. So, it is not really allowing enough time for Aerith to get to know Cloud, and for Cloud to get to know Aerith.

 

[looneymoon]

I think S-E cares at least somewhat about the LTD. The affection mechanic in the OG had a fairly complex design to it. Plus, Cloud's appearances in non-FF7 related materials tends to bait it fairly frequently.

I think they wanted the spirit of affection for both girls to live on in some way, but the decision to continue the narrative would have Cloud being with Tifa. It makes the most sense with what they were trying to accomplish with Advent Children.

 

[Theozilla]

I think S-E cares at least somewhat about the LTD. The affection mechanic in the OG had a fairly complex design to it. Plus, Cloud's appearances in non-FF7 related materials tends to bait it fairly frequently.

I think they wanted the spirit of affection for both girls to live on in some way, but the decision to continue the narrative would have Cloud being with Tifa. It makes the most sense with what they were trying to accomplish with Advent Children.

To a degree sure, I just don’t think they view it as some super important financial factor or “the” defining/major trait of FFVII (like how like S-Supports in Fire Emblem are an advertised feature of their games), compared to say making sure Cloud is always wielding a giant sword in his appearances in other media and such.

 

[Yumelinh]

It's a combination of OG FFVII being such a heavily subjective video game, that also leaves the nature of Cloud's feelings ambiguous and mostly guided by the player. That sort of empty space which draws in the player's perspective allows for such ambiguity to exist and ultimately endure.

Even when the ambiguity isn't really so present anymore.

Yes, It could be that, too! It goes in line that some people, up to this day, still assimilates Cloud to his fake personality instead of his real one.

 

[LNK]

I wonder if Aerith's reasoning behind the don't fall in love with me line from ch 14, had anything to do with Cloud's stay away from me line from ch 2

 

[Makoeyes987]

Pretty sure that was a reference to her dying, and/or the fact he's not in his right mind at the moment either.

 

[LNK]

Pretty sure that was a reference to her dying, and/or the fact he's not in his right mind at the moment either.

Yeah, she definitely knows something. I guess I was meaning that both of those statements were them telling each other to do something, without giving the other a say in the matter

 

[Yumelinh]

To a degree sure, I just don’t think they view it as some super important financial factor or “the” defining/major trait of FFVII (like how like S-Supports in Fire Emblem are an advertised feature of their games), compared to say making sure Cloud is always wielding a giant sword in his appearances in other media and such.

I mostly agree! It's not that I believe they don't care at all. It's a part of the story after all and should be treated as such. I just don't think they care enough for it to be as much important as other subplots of the game.

It's like the notion that SE is ambiguous when it comes to the LTD. Well, they do love playing with people's feelings expectations when it comes to LTD but they didn't shy away from giving a definitive answer to it in the end, many times.

But maybe it's as @Makoeyes987 said, It's the ambiguity presented in the OG that allows this matter to endure even to these days.

 

[null]

I wonder if Aerith's reasoning behind the don't fall in love with me line from ch 14, had anything to do with Cloud's stay away from me line from ch 2

Well Nojima had this to say:

If you know Aerith's fate, than this line would really pull at your heart strings, but if you did not know what happens to Aerith, then you might interpret the scene in a completely different way. I thought the gap between the two interpretations was very interesting.

Which sounds like it's related to her death, but also carefully framed in terms of player interpretations. In which case I say it's because of the flower.

 

[Graymouse]

I mostly agree! It's not that I believe they don't care at all. It's a part of the story after all and should be treated as such. I just don't think they care enough for it to be as much important as other subplots of the game.

It's like the notion that SE is ambiguous when it comes to the LTD. Well, they do love playing with people's feelings expectations when it comes to LTD but they didn't shy away from giving a definitive answer to it in the end, many times.

But maybe it's as @Makoeyes987 said, It's the ambiguity presented in the OG that allows this matter to endure even to these days.

Yeah, I think we are way to far down the rabbit hole for SE to care either way at this point.

Would you guys preferred SE to definitively say that Cloud ended up with one of two of the girls, or that he just remained a loner throughout the rest of his days because the events took a major toll on his body and mind? Kinda anti-climactic if you ask me though? Both ways could be plausible.

 

[Theozilla]

Yeah, I think we are way to far down the rabbit hole for SE to care either way at this point.

Would you guys preferred SE to definitively say that Cloud ended up with one of two of the girls, or that he just remained a loner throughout the rest of his days because the events took a major toll on his body and mind? Kinda anti-climactic if you ask me though? Both ways could be plausible.

I mean, I already feel like the post-OG Comp entries plus Utlimanias, do already pretty definitively say that (even if it could have arguably been more explicit).
But if you mean make it even more explicit in the Remake, sure that would be fine with me.

 

[Graymouse]

I mean, I already feel like the post-OG Comp entries plus Utlimanias, do already pretty definitively say that (even if it could have arguably been more explicit).
But if you mean make it even more explicit in the Remake, sure that would be fine with me.

If that is the case, than this whole thread is silly.

 

[LNK]

Yeah, I think we are way to far down the rabbit hole for SE to care either way at this point.

Would you guys preferred SE to definitively say that Cloud ended up with one of two of the girls, or that he just remained a loner throughout the rest of his days because the events took a major toll on his body and mind? Kinda anti-climactic if you ask me though? Both ways could be plausible.

I like things to be more definitively. That way it creates no confusion

 

[null]

I can't reconcile the romantic overtones oozing from every pore in the Remake with Cloud being a loner. SE, stand and deliver goddamnit!

 

[Graymouse]

I can't reconcile the romantic overtones oozing from every pore in the Remake with Cloud being a loner. SE, stand and deliver goddamnit!

I believe a lot of people feel that way especially after so long. I just don't think SE could steel themselves to decide one way or the other. Although, like mention before If they do decided to go that route, they are still going to get everyone's money anyways.

 

[Master Bates]

In regards to Aerith having died, I think that's arguably why the LTD continues to this day, @Master Bates and @JayM wrote on that subject several years ago, that I really think sums up how Aerith dying perpetuates the LTD rather than ending it.

​

Now whether or not the Remake ends up changing people's perceptions, is another matter entirely, even if it ends up being more "explicit" than what the OG and Compilation did/have done.

Just want to express my heartfelt gratitude to the one and only @The Twilight Mexican for including my humble inputs on this behemoth of a subject that is the FFVII LTD in one of his thoughtful articles on the subject. My thoughts on the subject have now become immortalized for all to see and my eyes water from the sheer overwhelming feeling of having something to show to my posterity assuming I don't end up forever alone once I am pass my prime.

Thank you, Squall_of_Seed. *sniffs*

EDIT:

Would you guys preferred SE to definitively say that Cloud ended up with one of two of the girls, or that he just remained a loner throughout the rest of his days because the events took a major toll on his body and mind? Kinda anti-climactic if you ask me though? Both ways could be plausible.

Didn't SE do this already?

Whether he did love Aerith romantically or not, he ended with Tifa.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Is the LTD as big a thing in Japan as it is in the west? The "One True Love" and the "True Bride" tropes are foundational to the European story-telling tradition. I don't know if this is the case in Japan.

 

[Master Bates]

Is the LTD as big a thing in Japan as it is in the west? The "One True Love" and the "True Bride" tropes are foundational to the European story-telling tradition. I don't know if this is the case in Japan.

Well according to a couple of Japanese dining at WcDon----

 

[Graymouse]

Is the LTD as big a thing in Japan as it is in the west? The "One True Love" and the "True Bride" tropes are foundational to the European story-telling tradition. I don't know if this is the case in Japan.

I think that Aerith is way more popular in Japan, at least it felt that way when I was over there for 20 years. So maybe the LTD don't exist in the same way as it does in the West, or NA for that matter.

ETA:

Japan's top FF characters

Spoiler

Aerith comes in at # 3 Tifa comes in at #9

 

[Makoeyes987]

The dynamic of that "debate" is different. It's less who Cloud ends up with, but who's the better waifu.

And yeah, Aerith has higher popularity there. Aerith was voted 3rd most popular FF character in Japan's NHK poll, beaten only by Yuna and Cloud. Tifa is still very popular however at #9th most popular. But, yeah, Japan stans Aerith hard. She lives on!

 

[Theozilla]

The dynamic of that "debate" is different. It's less who Cloud ends up with, but who's the better waifu.

And yeah, Aerith has higher popularity there. Aerith was voted 3rd most popular FF character in Japan's NHK poll, beaten only by Yuna and Cloud. Tifa is still very popular however at #9th most popular. But, yeah, Japan stans Aerith hard. She lives on!

Though if I recall in other official SE polls Tifa has sometimes taken higher rankings.

Spoiler: Images Hidden for Space

For FF heroines in general, Japan I think really likes Yuna overall the most.

And one time they did a couples poll Cloud & Tifa came in higher than Cloud and Aerith (in both the International and Japanese poll). Though in both of those Tidus and Yuna ranked higher than them. Cecil and Rosa are also a pretty popular too

Spoiler: Images Hidden for Space

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

What I really wanted to know is whether the Japanese fandom suffers from these vitriolic shipping wars.

 

[Theozilla]

What I really wanted to know is whether the Japanese fandom suffers from these vitriolic shipping wars.

Well presumably there aren’t arguments over accuracy/comprehension of translation at least, since it’s non-issue for them.

 

[Master Bates]

Who is the better waifu?

Japan. Asking the real questions.

 

[Midgar_Blues]

Well, this sure was an interesting read. I'm torn; I'd like SE to clear this whole cesspool up once and for all, but then what would we read while bored shitless in isolation? Just my two cents, but in the ending of the remake, I took Aerith's last words as a reference to Zack from CC. They did appear to sense one another in their alternate timelines (if that's even what it was), before Aertih says she misses the steel sky. It was to Zack she first said this to, right? She was scared of the sky and felt safer under the plate?
I'm also in the belief that Aerith most definitely knows more than what she's letting on. When she started explaining what Cloud would do if he got lost was kind of odd considering they only just "officially" met a few hours before. I mean, even Cloud told her to stop talking about him like she knew him. Anyway, I'm one of those Cloti shippers who actually loves Aerith, mainly because my entrance into the VII universe started with Crisis Core.