SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[youffie]

Zerith also never did it for me and I don’t get what the fuss about Zack is, either. I mean, I do get it and I do like him, I just don't share the fascination for the character that half the fandom seems to have. But hey, we'll see…

I guess you could argue that Aerith was probably not over Zack by that point in time in the OG either, although by the time she died she seemed to be able to differentiate between her feelings for Zack and Cloud. But they've taken an interesting direction with her character, what with her being more aware of stuff she's not supposed to know, so I'm not sure what they'll do with that.

 

[Yumelinh]

Ah, Zerith definitely does it for me! I didn't care about it in the OG, but I came to enjoy this pairing a lot over the years (same with Zack).

To me in OG, Zack was more of a plot device than an actual character, which is understandable since I don't think they predict how huge FFVII would become to the point of having the possibility of flash out the main story any further. Same for Zerith, it was there, but more as an afterthought than anything else.

But then, we got the compilation, and Zack was able to become a full character with a backstory and a well-rounded relationship with both Cloud and Aerith. As for Zerith, It's undeniable the amount of importance SE has decided put into it by intentionally make a lot of the initial moments btw Cloud and Aerith somehow related to Zerith, or even how a lot of Aerith's character was impacted by her relationship with Zack (Plus the ending of AC/C was a solid nod for the ship as well).

And personally, I think the Remake reflected those changes and new information we got since OG was released, hence why we have Aerith inquiring Cloud about "another soldier" or how the whole tone of the park scene was changed and even how it played out, the "steel sky" quote and so on...

Like... we don't even need to see it as romantic if we don't want to tbh, but there's definitely a shift in how Zerith is being portrayed this time around (in comparison to OG) for sure.

 

[Sasseli]

But it's clearly romantic, their relationship (be it past or present). Since the beginning, Zack has been the first person Aerith fell in love with and all the symbols Aerith carries around herself (be it things, words, colours, emotions) have their roots in Zack. We didn't yet know this playing the OG, but CC fleshed their history out so beautifully, all in the canonverse, that I can't not see the strong bond she obviously still has with him, even after so many years!

Her relationship towards Cloud is a different thing entirely. We don't yet know how that'll play out further in the Remake, but I expect it to delve much further into the whole topic, showing much more of Zack and his connections with both Cloud and Aerith.

 

[Yumelinh]

But it's clearly romantic, their relationship (be it past or present). Since the beginning, Zack has been the first person Aerith fell in love with and all the symbols Aerith carries around herself (be it things, words, colours, emotions) have their roots in Zack. We didn't yet know this playing the OG, but CC fleshed their history out so beautifully, all in the canonverse, that I can't not see the strong bond she obviously still has with him, even after so many years!

Her relationship towards Cloud is a different thing entirely. We don't yet know how that'll play out further in the Remake, but I expect it to delve much further into the whole topic, showing much more of Zack and his connections with both Cloud and Aerith.

I agree that it's romantic in nature ( since initially, she was reminiscing over a past relationship with someone who resembles her past lover, after all), but what I said was more around the lines: You don't need to ship it to agree that Zerith is being more carefully played out this time in the Remake.

There's actual care in how Zerith is being portrayed and mentioned ( in comparison to OG for the record), and that's prob because their relationship is actually much solid this time around due to development we got from AC/C and CC.

I also do think Zack is gonna play a big part in the Remake, at least the ending (plus Ultimania) is hinting at this.

 

[Master Bates]

LOL I just find it funny.

Tifa once asked Zack about "a blonde guy in SOLDIER" back at Nibelheim (correct me if I'm wrong with this, my memories are hazy), to which Zack answers in the negative. Guess Roche wasn't originally blonde.

Aerith asks Cloud at Green Park about another soldier who we'll hide by the name of Zack, to which Cloud answers in the negative.

These women asking about their boyfriends. LOL

Speaking of that Green Park date, I find it difficult to immerse myself in that scene. It's not about the characters, I just can't get one thought out of my head: How the fuck is Cloud able to sit comfortably at the slide with that huge ass sword on his back? I can't wrap my mind around this.

 

[Sasseli]

He can even slide down it with that huge ass sword on his back.

He can do a lot of things with that huge ass sword on his back most would deem impossible.

Game logic.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I really like how Aerith's staffs magically appear when she fights and magically disappear again. It amuses me.

 

[Yumelinh]

LOL I just find it funny.

Tifa once asked Zack about "a blonde guy in SOLDIER" back at Nibelheim (correct me if I'm wrong with this, my memories are hazy), to which Zack answers in the negative. Guess Roche wasn't originally blonde.

Aerith asks Cloud at Green Park about another soldier who we'll hide by the name of Zack, to which Cloud answers in the negative.

These women asking about their boyfriends. LOL

Speaking of that Green Park date, I find it difficult to immerse myself in that scene. It's not about the characters, I just can't get one thought out of my head: How the fuck is Cloud able to sit comfortably at the slide with that huge ass sword on his back? I can't wrap my mind around this.

lol, If that wasn't me, really bothered by Cloud sleeping on his bed still with that shoulder armor AND with his boots on

 

[Master Bates]

He can even slide down it with that huge ass sword on his back.

He can do a lot of things with that huge ass sword on his back most would deem impossible.

Game logic.

I really like how Aerith's staffs magically appear when she fights and magically disappear again. It amuses me.

lol, If that wasn't me, really bothered by Cloud sleeping on his bed still with that shoulder armor AND with his boots on

 

[Strangelove]

i couldn't get over the sleeping on his metal shoulder thing, just lying in bed with these massive bolts in the side of your face

why not sleep on your other side if you don't want to take it off

there really is something wrong with him

 

[Prism]

Especially since Square was OK with taking off various parts of their costumes for certain scenes (Tifa without gloves in that Seventh Heaven scene, Cloud during the hand massage scene) so they really could have just...Had him take off the giant metal pauldron...

Let alone sleeping in a thick sweater, suspenders, and poofy pants to begin with. Give Cloud pajamas, Square!

Also, Zerith is a fantastic couple. Zack was so sweet to her in Crisis Core. Cloud has a lot to live up to for Clerith. (And I support Clerith too, so...)

 

[Strangelove]

i demand a patch to add cloud in his chocobo jimjams

 

[Master Bates]

I bet Cloud doesn't have anything else in his wardrobe. Heck, I even doubt if he had another set of underwear. The poor guy.

 

[Yumelinh]

I bet Cloud doesn't have anything else in his wardrobe. Heck, I even doubt if he had another set of underwear. The poor guy.

Now we understand why he was so eager to get paid lol

 

[Edley]

Somehow having Zack, Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa in the same place at the same time is the fan service I need.

 

[Yumelinh]

Clerith see and take the flower exchange between Cloud and Aerith as pro Clerith for the record, Aerith had already mentioned a date with her was on the cards, the you're getting paid right now, huh, huh, ohhh exchange had taken place by then, Cloud already had some awareness of what was on the table, and was keeping his options open, not shutting Aerith down as a choice. That was what I took from it anyway. Cloud also knows his payment is more time with Aerith later when he tells Oates he's on the clock when he asks him if he can help out ?

I was planning to answer this and completely forgot, sorry

I can see why the flower exchange can be taken both ways tbh. But I think my interpretation is quite different from the Clerith one, I would be very willing to listen to what is the CxA interpretation for this particular theme ( if you want ofc).

For the date part: while it's definitely a good build-up for the ship, I don't think it should be taken too literally. Cloud may act like he doesn't care, but deep down is always willing to help people when they need it. As for the date itself... did not Cloud and Tifa also went out to a 'date night' together on chapter 3? While not as straight forward as the CxA, it was still painted out as 'time alone' to hit the town and celebrate (edit to add that It doesn't necessarily need to be seen as a romantic date, but still a date nevertheless, just like the CxA one)

Somehow having Zack, Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa in the same place at the same time is the fan service I need.

I...actually never stopped to think about this possibility?!?! I don't think I cant handle it actually happening

 

[Sasseli]

I could handle it!

I view the lack of pyjamas (and changes of clothes in general) the same as their apparently non-existent need to ever eat, use the loo or have any other lower needs. Clothes for the night and comfort are obviously lower needs.

 

[Graymouse]

I pulled this from that long read. I am quoting a couple of people so, these are not my words but the owners. I do however, think that they are important to bring to the table in this discussion.

—
I find it very telling that to “prove” Clerith you first have to disprove Cloti. In order for Cloud to love Aerith, you have to prove he doesn’t love Tifa. I have never, ever seen a Clerith argument that wasn’t built on a foundation of attempting to disprove CloudxTifa.

And yet, for Cloti, you just have to let it be. He loves Tifa. End of.

There is absolutely no need to disprove he loved Aerith, because, well, there’s no evidence he ever did. For Cloti to work, you just have to follow the story. No suppositions, no hidden meanings, no alternate interpretations. It’s just *there*.
—
—Fairheartstrife

This point of view is interesting.
—

That’s the problem with the Highwind scenes. Some people assume that the existence of two versions automatically means that they are the opposite of one another completely. For clarity’s sake, the Low Affection scene does not say that Cloud and Tifa 1) *hate* or are disinterested in each other because they confessed love on the other scene, or 2) decided to be *only* friends because they wanted to be much more in the other version.

Yes, those are actual arguments I’ve read from the other side, and they are not true. The Low Affection scene being apathetic is a result of the lack of points you, as Cloud, failed to accumulate in order for Tifa to be comfortable enough to show that she wants your Buster Sword. It does not change the fact that she likes Cloud romantically and vice versa.

And about Cloud and Tifa not being showy and mushy all over: I don’t think people who argue that they aren’t a couple because of such a reason don’t necessarily know what love is in real life. They just expect that, from a video game, where everybody looks insanely gorgeous and everything is fantasy, love must be this magical, eternal force that is never touched by mistakes or sadness or hurt whatsoever.

They don’t have to have twisted ideas about love in real life to come up with such conclusions. They just have a problem with the Compilation’s approach.
—
—Unlucky

This point is almost never brought up and it is rather insightful for pro Tifa X Cloud ships, it puts a little bit of a Doylistic point of view I must admit. Which in that very scene Tifa says, " Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you are thinking"

Now this is a partial quote. The reason I am only quoting a partial of it, because I feel that it is the most important.

My point in all this is to say that I think he did love both women, but to different degrees. One woman he loved his entire life and desperately desired to be good enough for her, except for a short period when his memory was incomplete. The other he only knew during the period he couldn’t remember how he felt about the first woman. However, he did have a strong bond with her and they got along extremely well and had a kind of fun, flirty dynamic. But the first woman is the one he expresses deep, tender feelings for and the one that becomes his companion for the rest of his life.
—
—Knuxson

I couldn't have said this paragraph any better. I think this is an excellent point.

 

[billy22]

I pulled this from that long read. I am quoting a couple of people so, these are not my words but the owners. I do however, think that they are important to bring to the table in this discussion.

I don't, seeing as this is about the Midgar Remake. Talking about late game OG (such as the Highwind scene) from OG is pointless right now.

 

[Graymouse]

I don't, seeing as this is about the Midgar Remake. Talking about late game OG (such as the Highwind scene) from OG is pointless right now.

And yet others have done the same thing? I don't recall you calling them out?

 

[Ryushikaze]

I don't, seeing as this is about the Midgar Remake. Talking about late game OG (such as the Highwind scene) from OG is pointless right now.

While the Highwind scene is not yet relevant, the idea of "people assume the scenes must be opposite to each other" is relevant, given the brouhaha about the various ch14 scenes.

 

[Eerie]

Which is funny, considering that all three scenes are just so good lol. And that the play log wants you to have all three.

 

[Yumelinh]

To be fair we did bring OG game here more than a few times, which is kinda unavoidable when pretty much everyone who's more active here in this thread has played the of before :/

In short, I think most of what we been discussing here should be on "The remake+the Compilation" thread since we are discussing the Remake in light of what we know from the Compilation. Maybe switch the threads name could be an option?

Anyways, It's better to wait for the mods to give the final word about it and follow w what they decide.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't think things have veered off the rails yet, though I was hoping @Graymouse might clarify what they were trying to highlight. I'm not sure I see which part of the discussion those quotations were meant to relate back to.

 

[Graymouse]

Alright, the reason I brought those three points up in my previous post is that the three authors bring up an excellent points that I feel can still be argued in the Remake.

Although the High Wind Scene obviously has not happened yet but the premise is there during the CH14 resolutions scenes that @Ryushikaze mention in a previous post. Especially how that the scene could be interpreted opposite of each other.

Example of Cloud loves Tifa because of the hug. or Cloud love Aerith because of "don't I get a say in this", type of back and forth.

Sorry for not making it clearer. I also will admit that the post was intended to be a little bit on the passive aggressive side of things. .